Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12-Jan 2012 onwards

Tusky

Kess73 wrote: »

This bit of the league table is now depressing. All five teams have played the same amount of games.


7. Liverpool 42

8. Sunderland 40

9. Everton 40

10. Swansea 39

11. Norwich 39


Could end up being a right old scrap just to stay 7th at this rate. No even bothered to put fifth place in there because Newcastle are five points ahead of us and right now have played a game less.

And looking at the form of all those teams, I wouldn't bet against Liverpool slipping further. We have lost 5 of our last 6 league games. Shocking.

The most frustrating thing is there has been no progression throughout the season. Everything looks aimless. The problems at the start of the season still exist, arguably on an even larger scale. Nothing has been done to address them. And on top of that, our signings have been a disaster. £35m sitting on the bench, Downing is totally ineffective and the team is better when Adam doesn't play. Far too early to judge Henderson, but you can certainly question whether £16m should buy more potential.

Kenny's target was 4th. But at an absolute minimum I think the owners expected a challenge for 4th. They would be perfectly entitled to review his role as manager at the end of the season and they couldn't be accused of being hasty. Expecting an improvement on one of the worst seasons in recent memory is not a lot to ask, particularly with their investment.

kingshankly

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A joke of a club on course to win two of the three competitions they entered this year...

An absolute disgrace fcuk the cups he hasn't a clue what's going and has no control over his players

murpho999

kingshankly wrote: »

Kenny please just go the club are a joke at the moment

Jaysis....I hate this over-reaction.

A few bad results and the club is a "joke".

Yes it's a difficult time and Kenny has got a lot wrong but I would prefer him to stay and try and turn it around!

Similar to Wenger at Arsenal!

LuckyLloyd

kingshankly wrote: »

An absolute disgrace fcuk the cups he hasn't a clue what's going and has no control over his players

Meh, if we win the FA Cup it will be a great season and his legend will be ensconced, that's the bottom line.

Benzino

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A joke of a club on course to win two of the three competitions they entered this year...

The aim was to get fourth, or at least challenge for it. That's what the majority of the fans wanted, players and the owners. We haven't come close to it.

Kess73

kingshankly wrote: »

Kenny please just go the club are a joke at the moment

In the league they are, but in the cups Kenny has the team doing very well.

The league is what matters most, but doing well in both cups would be an achievement.

doc_17

We had a chance (a small one yes) of getting into the top 4 until a few weeks ago and have already won something and have a good chance to win another. The signings haven't bedded in but I'd give Kenny another year at it.

tok9

murpho999 wrote: »

Jaysis....I hate this over-reaction.

A few bad results and the club is a "joke".

Yes it's a difficult time and Kenny has got a lot wrong but I would prefer him to stay and try and turn it around!

Similar to Wenger at Arsenal!

I'm not a fan of over reactions myself but under reactions aren't great either.

It's not just a few bad results at this stage, we've lost 4 of our last 5 league games!

I wouldn't be disappointed to see Kenny leave anyway.

Edit: Sorry it's worse, we've lost 5 of our last 6!

spockety

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Reina should definitely be benched for a while. He has not made any plays this year, and we have a pretty decent goalkeeper on the bench.

Do that and we lose him, he would leave.

I am not sure we have the luxury of jettisoning one of the finest keepers in the world.

amacachi

murpho999 wrote: »

Similar to Wenger at Arsenal!

Arsenal have just won their 7th PL match in a row and had a run of 7 wins in 8 earlier in the season. There's nothing to suggest Liverpool could go on such a run, best they've managed all season is 2 wins in a row. That really is shocking. **** was sold and more **** was bought. Liverpool need to spend a good £40-50million at non-Liverpool prices just to have a go at 4th. For all the talk about Wenger being stubborn and not buying defenders (having 4 fullbacks and the two first choice CBs injured is terrible luck) the fact that Carragher is allowed near a pitch in a Liverpool jersey should be a sacking offence for any manager IMO.

murpho999

Benzino wrote: »

The aim was to get fourth, or at least challenge for it. That's what the majority of the fans wanted, players and the owners. We haven't come close to it.

We were close just over a month ago but had results since.

4th was the target but you can't fire every manager for not reaching a target.

We are not Chelsea: time for calm heads and good management, by that I mean club management.

At end of season Henry,Ayre & Werner need to sit with Kenny & Comoli and analyse correctly where it went wrong and make the correct decisions to bring club forward.

I think Kenny will be man enough to go if there was someone else who can do better but I'm sure he'll want to take on the challenge and turn it around.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, if we win the FA Cup it will be a great season and his legend will be ensconced, that's the bottom line.

Disagree that it would make for a great season, but winning two of the three domestic trophies would be noteworthy to say the very least.

If that happens under Kenny then in one, ten, or fifty years time when someone looks back on Kenny's career 2012 will see him listed as having managed the club to two pieces of silverware, and Kenny's legend will be ensconced, as you nicely put it, snugly alongside his legacy.

LuckyLloyd

spockety wrote: »

Do that and we lose him, he would leave.

I am not sure we have the luxury of jettisoning one of the finest keepers in the world.

He hasn't been one of the finest keepers in the world for full on two seasons now.

Chucky the tree

murpho999 wrote: »

Jaysis....I hate this over-reaction.

A few bad results and the club is a "joke".

Yes it's a difficult time and Kenny has got a lot wrong but I would prefer him to stay and try and turn it around!

Similar to Wenger at Arsenal!

A few? We've won twice in the last 14 league games.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He hasn't been one of the finest keepers in the world for full on two seasons now.

True, but he has still been one of the better keepers in the league during that period, and would be a difficult player to replace as is.

There are other positions that need filling and other players that need replacing far more urgently.

A top keeper is a difficult thing to get. I would not be quick to remove the one we have.

Turtyturd

murpho999 wrote: »

Jaysis....I hate this over-reaction.

A few bad results and the club is a "joke".

Yes it's a difficult time and Kenny has got a lot wrong but I would prefer him to stay and try and turn it around!

Similar to Wenger at Arsenal!

Likewise, we were out of contention for fourth a few weeks back so while the results are bad they are not doing any major damage. If we perform in the two cup matches and have 2 trophies at the end of the season it will be a success. Kenny should get at least next season and if things don't improve then step down.

NukaCola

I had a big post wrote but fcuk it cant be bothered. The abridged version is this. I have many criticisms of Kenny, but wanting him out after a season and a bit is very harsh IMO. The foundation is set IMO. Lets see how next season goes.

murpho999

amacachi wrote: »

Arsenal have just won their 7th PL match in a row and had a run of 7 wins in 8 earlier in the season. There's nothing to suggest Liverpool could go on such a run, best they've managed all season is 2 wins in a row. That really is shocking. **** was sold and more **** was bought. Liverpool need to spend a good £40-50million at non-Liverpool prices just to have a go at 4th. For all the talk about Wenger being stubborn and not buying defenders (having 4 fullbacks and the two first choice CBs injured is terrible luck) the fact that Carragher is allowed near a pitch in a Liverpool jersey should be a sacking offence for any manager IMO.

Well any team struggling for from will not look like they could go on a 7 game streak, nor did Arsenal at start of season and people were calling for Wenger to be sacked then too.

Think you're being harsh on Carra too.

jank

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, if we win the FA Cup it will be a great season and his legend will be ensconced, that's the bottom line.

That is his bottom line, his famous ego is getting in the way. He should have stood down last summer but he liked being back in the limelight too much. Now its all falling down around him. If he truly loved the club more than himself he would call it a day at the end of the season, regardless if he wins another cup.

Benzino

murpho999 wrote: »

We were close just over a month ago but had results since.

4th was the target but you can't fire every manager for not reaching a target.

We are not Chelsea: time for calm heads and good management, by that I mean club management.

At end of season Henry,Ayre & Werner need to sit with Kenny & Comoli and analyse correctly where it went wrong and make the correct decisions to bring club forward.

I think Kenny will be man enough to go if there was someone else who can do better but I'm sure he'll want to take on the challenge and turn it around.

That's fair enough and I understand this point of view. But for me personally, I do not trust Kenny to spend whatever money he has available to him wisely. I can't shake the feeling that it'll be a while before we get to spend as much as we did last year, and that Kenny completely blew it.

I also don't think he is tactically good enough either. I don't want us to be sacking a manager every year either, but I certainly don't want us to keep an under-performing manager just for the sake of it.

Laika1986

NukaCola wrote: »

I had a big post wrote but fcuk it cant be bothered. The abridged version is this. I have many criticisms of Kenny, but wanting him out after a season and a bit is very harsh IMO. The foundation is set IMO. Lets see how next season goes.

I agree with ya to a certain extent but I haven't seen any real sign of improvement all season. We have played some lovely football at times but mostly with no end product

LuckyLloyd

jank wrote: »

That is his bottom line, his famous ego is getting in the way. He should have stood down last summer but he liked being back in the limelight too much. Now its all falling down around him. If he truly loved the club more than himself he would call it a day at the end of the season, regardless if he wins another cup.

I don't know, two cups in one season would be the kind of success an Arsenal fan can only dream of surely? Hell, winning one cup was a lovely little achievement.

Leiva

How ya lads . Cracking sunny day today hey ?

What's did you get up to ?

/ignore that big fùcking elephant over there in the corner .

amacachi

murpho999 wrote: »

Well any team struggling for from will not look like they could go on a 7 game streak, nor did Arsenal at start of season and people were calling for Wenger to be sacked then too.

Think you're being harsh on Carra too.

They've been "struggling for form" for just about a whole season now. If you look back to the start of the season you'll even see United fans who reckoned Arsenal could go on the kinds of runs that they have done. Liverpool bought no-one since Kenny came in who I would want in the Arsenal team (perhaps except Suarez but I wouldn't be bothered with him either way) so what is this foundation that Liverpool fans reckon has been built?

murpho999

Benzino wrote: »

That's fair enough and I understand this point of view. But for me personally, I do not trust Kenny to spend whatever money he has available to him wisely. I can't shake the feeling that it'll be a while before we get to spend as much as we did last year, and that Kenny completely blew it.

I also don't think he is tactically good enough either. I don't want us to be sacking a manager every year either, but I certainly don't want us to keep an under-performing manager just for the sake of it.

I hear what you're saying but I think Kenny deserves the chance to be given time to turn it around.

He has shown in other games that he's an astute tactician (Stamford Bridge for last 2 games).
I think he's problem is that due to under performing players he doesn't know what his best 11/formation is and that always makes a job difficult.

jank

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't know, two cups in one season would be the kind of success an Arsenal fan can only dream of surely? Hell, winning one cup was a lovely little achievement.

Ah yes the mighty Carling cup. Well I suppose for Kenny it is a success winning it as he has been out of the game so long he forgets that the cup is basically a youth cup these days.

As I said, keep him all you want. I am very happy with that!

murpho999

jank wrote: »

Ah yes the mighty Carling cup. Well I suppose for Kenny it is a success winning it as he has been out of the game so long he forgets that the cup is basically a youth cup these days.

As I said, keep him all you want. I am very happy with that!

At least the trophy cabinet has been opened recently.

Do they even have one at the Emirates?

Tusky

The thing is murpho999, while you can't be overly critical of a manager for failing to reach his target, you can certainly criticise for failing to challenge. We are not even close to where we want to be and have shown no signs of improving - despite the fact that the season is almost over. Our best run throughout the season is two wins on the trot.

klose

I don't know what to think anymore, so confused. The carling cup win was great and the FA cup semis are looming and as bad as league form is I wouldnt put it past us getting to the final and winning it, not saying we're favourites now.
Its pretty fair to say we're really missing lucas, agger and johnson also, keep thinking how would the season have went with them (lucas) but sure if me aunt had balls she'd be me uncle. Hope to god nobody will leave in the summer and need to splash out on a guarentted goalscorer to play with suarez, 4-4-2. Just because caroll cost 35million dosent mean he has to play next season. The squad isint miles off a good one, defence is solid for the most part, midfield needs great attention over the summer and need just one more big name forward.
I wouldnt be too bad if dalglish gets another season, I dont want us to do a chelsea job and get rid of a manager who isint having immediate effect,..

missingtime

Hand on heart I would **** the two cups in the bin if it meant we got 4th. Tuesday and Wednesday nights with the champions league music is so much more satisfying.

murpho999

Tusky wrote: »

The thing is murpho999, while you can't be overly critical of a manager for failing to reach his target, you can certainly criticise for failing to challenge. We are not even close to where we want to be and have shown no signs of improving - despite the fact that the season is almost over. Our best run throughout the season is two wins on the trot.

Yes, your points are hard to argue with and the two wins on the trot stat is a shocker, I just think it's a time for calm heads.

Chucky the tree

jank wrote: »

Ah yes the mighty Carling cup. Well I suppose for Kenny it is a success winning it as he has been out of the game so long he forgets that the cup is basically a youth cup these days.

As I said, keep him all you want. I am very happy with that!

Didn't think your manager would be so disappointed over losing a youth cup, no wonder you want him sacked.

t will hurt me for ever because we never forget disappointments," he said.

"That's part of life at a managerial level, you do not only have successes but disappointments too.

"People forget that we did fight very hard to get there and overall we produced great performances in the Carling Cup last year. That's very important as well.

"There is hunger in this team no matter what competition.

Leiva

Kenny blames tiredness playing Sunday - Wednesday - Saturday .

That's us fûcked then for the FA semis which see us play Saturday - Tuesday - Sunday (semi):o

LuckyLloyd

missingtime wrote: »

Hand on heart I would **** the two cups in the bin if it meant we got 4th. Tuesday and Wednesday nights with the champions league music is so much more satisfying.

If we have a chance of doing something in it! Arsenal and Spurs are happy to simply get in the dance and get embarrassed away from home a couple of times before they exit before the money games. I want us to get back into Europe and be mixing it in the business end. We're not at such a point yet.

As such, winning competitions we are good enough to compete in is as happy as one can be at present.

super_furry

Fact is after spending close to £100 million, Liverpool are no better off on the pitch that they were under Hicks, Gillette and Hodgson. That's simply not good enough and there are no signs of it changing under Kenny.

Kess73

jank wrote: »

Ah yes the mighty Carling cup. Well I suppose for Kenny it is a success winning it as he has been out of the game so long he forgets that the cup is basically a youth cup these days.

As I said, keep him all you want. I am very happy with that!

Funny thing that league cup. Gets written off by many as a joke nowadays or a youth cup as you just called it.

I was in Wembley when Arsenal won it in 1987. Was not seen as a joke cup by Arsenal back then as it was their first bit of silverware in almost a decade and their next silverware before that agin was the 1971 double.

Back then Arsenal fans were lauding the win, and saying it would spark off many more wins.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it is easy to be dismissive of a trophy, but it is one your own club made a very big deal out of winning in the past and as a supporter of that club you should then understand what winning a domestic cup means to a club and it's supporters.

Arsenal won it again in 1993, the arm break cup, as part of a domestic cup double and again the trophy was not seen as a joke.

I am not an Arsenal supporter but years like 1987 and 1993 will linger long in my head with regards to Arsenal. Years they won silverware. Ask me about years that Arsenal came fourth in the league and I will be guessing more often than not unless it was a very recent thing.

History remembers the winners not the almosts.

Jesus Wept

mixednuts wrote: »

Kenny blames tiredness playing Sunday - Wednesday - Saturday .

That's us fûcked then for the FA semis which see us play Saturday - Tuesday - Sunday (semi):o

Well then perhaps he should have stuck Maxi in the starting line up.

Turtyturd

Tusky wrote: »

The thing is murpho999, while you can't be overly critical of a manager for failing to reach his target, you can certainly criticise for failing to challenge. We are not even close to where we want to be and have shown no signs of improving - despite the fact that the season is almost over. Our best run throughout the season is two wins on the trot.

That is a shocking stat but it also has to put into context, this season has been very fractured with key players in and out of the squad with injuries.

Slimity

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If we have a chance of doing something in it! Arsenal and Spurs are happy to simply get in the dance and get embarrassed away from home a couple of times before they exit before the money games. I want us to get back into Europe and be mixing it in the business end. We're not at such a point yet.

As such, winning competitions we are good enough to compete in is as happy as one can be at present.

We'll never be back at that level though if we keep spending vast sums of money on the likes of Carroll, Downing, and Henderson. We actually had a better, more functioning team before last summer's acquisitions. Someone has to take responsibility for that.

donfers

Kenny's post-match interview is concerning, head in the sand is my take on it

murpho999

mixednuts wrote: »

Kenny blames tiredness playing Sunday - Wednesday - Saturday .

That's us fûcked then for the FA semis which see us play Saturday - Tuesday - Sunday (semi):o

Well in fairness what do you expect him to say?

He looked very unhappy and I'm sure he's saying different things in the dressing room.

murpho999

Kess73 wrote: »

Funny thing that league cup. Gets written off by many as a joke nowadays or a youth cup as you just called it.

I was in Wembley when Arsenal won it in 1987. Was not seen as a joke cup by Arsenal back then as it was their first bit of silverware in almost a decade and their next silverware before that agin was the 1971 double.

Back then Arsenal fans were lauding the win, and saying it would spark off many more wins.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it is easy to be dismissive of a trophy, but it is one your own club made a very big deal out of winning in the past and as a supporter of that club you should then understand what winning a domestic cup means to a club and it's supporters.

Arsenal won it again in 1993, the arm break cup, as part of a domestic cup double and again the trophy was not seen as a joke.

I am not an Arsenal supporter but years like 1987 and 1993 will linger long in my head with regards to Arsenal. Years they won silverware. Ask me about years that Arsenal came fourth in the league and I will be guessing more often than not unless it was a very recent thing.

History remembers the winners not the almosts.

Still remember that game....bloody Charlie Nicholas, also if I remember correctly it was the first time that Rush scored and was on losing side!

mike65

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, if we win the FA Cup it will be a great season and his legend will be ensconced, that's the bottom line.

Not sure about your command of English but I'll assume you mean two cups would mean Dalglish will not have sullied his legend. Well you know what? Big deal. Liverpool football club is not in the "legend rescuing" business. 2 wins since Christmas 11 points since Christmas, 4 points in last six games.

The managers reputation is somewhat sullied and if he gets out with two Cups the worst that will be said of him was that he blew a lot of money but won two cups (that's also the best that could be said of him). If he is allowed to stay on he could be ruined pretty quickly if this seasons miscalculations are repeated.

Will he quit or will FSG have to save Dalglish from himself?

Sir Gallagher

Turtyturd wrote: »

That is a shocking stat but it also has to put into context, this season has been very fractured with key players in and out of the squad with injuries.

Every team gets injuries, its the job of the manager to anticipate them before the season starts and deal with them when they happen. Its no excuse for losing our bollox to dross teams week in, week out.

opr

donfers wrote: »

Kenny's post-match interview is concerning, head in the sand is my take on it

Has it been posted ? Have to say poor from him.

Kenny: Tiredness took its toll

Goals from Shaun Maloney (pen) and Gary Caldwell meant Luis Suarez's 12th strike of the season was immaterial to the result.

Dalglish felt having to compete against Stoke last Sunday and QPR on Wednesday took its toll.

"I think we looked a wee bit tired," he said. "We had a lot of possession in the game but we gave away the ball quite a lot in vital positions. It's not because they can't play, it's because of tiredness.

"If you play Sunday-Wednesday-Saturday it's going to take its toll. A lot of the lads had played all three games, and for us that's a reason behind our performance.

"It's because of the demand on them with games, and we've not had enough players at our disposal to give them adequate rest.

"It's a problem we face and it's dictated to the clubs and the players by the television schedule. The fact we've done well in two cup competitions has obviously given us lots of extra fixtures.

"We'll accept our progress in the cups and we'll have to accept that we're going to be a little bit tired. If we're going to be successful we've got to be able to handle it."

Referee Lee Mason awarded a penalty for a high challenge from Martin Skrtel and disallowed another Suarez goal for handball.

Dalglish added: "It doesn't matter how well or badly you play, you still need a wee bit of luck sometimes and there is no reason why the second goal should be chalked off for me.

"But we can't control referees, we can control ourselves. We'll brush ourselves down and get ourselves going again. We've got a week's rest now until Newcastle next Sunday, and we'll make the best of that."

The game was also notable for the debut of 17-year-old Raheem Sterling, who became the club's third youngest ever player.

Jonjo Shelvey and Jon Flanagan were also involved.

"It's nice to see the kids get a game but it's also better for us to look after them," said the boss. "We're not going to throw kids in and destroy them, but it's nice to see them on the pitch.

"Jonjo came on and gave us a wee bit of a lift as well."

Opr

Tusky

Turtyturd wrote: »

That is a shocking stat but it also has to put into context, this season has been very fractured with key players in and out of the squad with injuries.

I don't accept that. Every team gets injuries and ours have been fairly mild compared to other teams. Even when we have our best 11 on the pitch, we have been poor.

Jesus Wept

opr wrote: »

Has it been posted ? Have to say poor from him.

KD wrote:

"It's because of the demand on them with games, and we've not had enough players at our disposal to give them adequate rest.

Opr

ffs

Kess73

murpho999 wrote: »

Still remember that game....bloody Charlie Nicholas, also if I remember correctly it was the first time that Rush scored and was on losing side!

Right on both counts.

mike65

opr wrote: »

Has it been posted ? Have to say poor from him.

Now if you know who had come out with that. Disingenuous.

Benzino

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If we have a chance of doing something in it! Arsenal and Spurs are happy to simply get in the dance and get embarrassed away from home a couple of times before they exit before the money games. I want us to get back into Europe and be mixing it in the business end. We're not at such a point yet.

As such, winning competitions we are good enough to compete in is as happy as one can be at present.

True, but it would be easier to attract quality foreign players with CL football than with a Carling and FA Cup (if we win it). And boy we do we need some quality players