Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12-Jan 2012 onwards

spockety

mike65 wrote: »

The FSG boys are in town tomorrow, so no doubt a few things will be said and understood

Indeed...

Leiva

A Review of the Dalglish/Comolli Signings

http://tomkinstimes.com/2012/01/a-review-of-the-dalglishcomolli-signings/

A lot of people are putting Liverpool’s run of poor form down to the signings made in 2011. While a lot of money was spent, it’s important to remember that several players who didn’t want to be at Liverpool FC anymore – some of them erstwhile idols – were sold in the process.

Some fans and pundits blame Kenny Dalglish for certain signings, others are gunning for Damien Comolli. But in this situation, both the manager and the Director of Football have agreed to all the deals, so it seems wrong to apportion blame to one or the other (or indeed credit on the transfers that have worked).

It’s also important to note that without Lucas Leiva and Luis Suarez – the Reds’ best players this season – the XI will be considerably weakened; add Gerrard’s obvious rustiness, and it’s been a struggle at times, as the early season flow has ebbed away. That said, the performance at Bolton was undeniably dreadful.

Criticism keeps coming back to the signings of Carroll, Downing, Adam and Henderson. As a quartet, for the money paid, they look rather uninspiring; perhaps they are just too British and unremarkable. There seems to have been a desire (beyond quota necessities) to go down a British route for the past 18 months.

Having analysed almost 2,000 Premier League signings since 1994, I can see no correlation between buying British (or players with Premier League experience) and a greater deal of hits than misses. You get successes and failures either way, but there are obviously more good players beyond these shores (a whole world of them) than within.

Indeed, if you look at Liverpool’s purchasing over the last 20 years, the majority of those bought from this league have failed to meet expectations.

The best buys – Hyypia, Torres, Reina, Alonso, Lucas, Babbel, Agger, Kuyt and Suarez – had no prior experience of our league (while Mascherano had just a handful of games) before arriving; beyond Hamann, and McAllister for those six weeks in 2001, I’m struggling to think of one Liverpool signing from the Premier League since its inception that can stand alongside those players. (Finnan was very good, albeit after a poor first year.) There have been quite a few decent ones, but few outstanding.

Having said that, two of the Reds best players this season – Enrique and Bellamy – had experience of our league, and were bargains due to contractual situations. But even they’ve been eclipsed by Suarez from the 2011 signings. Meanwhile, Hodgson’s one and only success out of six attempts in 2010 was Meireles, from Porto; Cole (on massive wages) and Konchesky flopped.

I agree that the quartet of ‘overpriced’ Brits signed in 2011 does underwhelm as a collection – even if it’s unfair to simply ignore the quartet of successes bought in the same period. Just as you wouldn’t say Dalglish and Comolli’s purchasing has been a complete success based purely on buying Suarez, Enrique, Bellamy and the quietly impressive Coates, you can’t write off their business by ignoring the deals they got right.

As bringing down the wage bill was part of the criteria, and Champions League football was not an incentive to offer, there were limitations in place, so it’s not been a case of cherry-picking the elite.

And that quartet is not beyond hope.

For me, Henderson – as one of those seen by many to be failing – has actually been increasingly impressive (albeit in an ‘unremarkable’ way, a la early Lucas), and I think he has a very bright future. He’s often looked lost on the right, when doing a job out there for the team, but has still had some bright moments out there. In the middle, he sees things early. He’s a fine first-time passer, and that’s quite rare in English midfielders, even if he does have the classic British ‘good engine’.

I’ve discussed Carroll at length in the past, but the longer it goes on, the more the doubts get cemented; the longer he fails, the greater the weight grows. The pressure of being a Liverpool player, as well as a record transfer, is not sitting easily on his broad shoulders.

He’s not even doing the things he’d proven good at earlier in his career; such as heading at goal. That tells me it’s largely a confidence issue, rather than a technical one. Things that were once routine and instinctive are now laboured and over-thought.

Crucially, he lacks the pace to be a menace in other areas, to compensate for those times when the goals aren’t going in. And though he’s worked hard in some recent games, whilst being isolated up front, I don’t like seeing the way he gives up in certain situations, and moans rather than chasing back. His general attitude doesn’t look the best, and maybe he has to mature as a person before he can mature as a player.

That said, he has superb shooting technique, particularly when he doesn’t have time to dwell on what to do (another sign of confidence issues).

There’s something there; more raw talent than he’s given credit for. But like players whose touch isn’t perfect, his can look awful when low on confidence. (Maybe the defining skill of great players is that their first touch remains, even when they’re struggling to score – or whatever it is they are in the side to do. Most players struggle to control the ball as well when in poor form, as the body becomes more rigid due to anxiety; there’s less of that perfect ‘give’ in the contact. Those very best players, you feel, could control the ball blindfolded, with their feet moored in hard-set cement.)

I’ve no doubt that Carroll can be a lot better than he’s shown during a difficult first year, but it’s getting harder to see him living up to initial expectations, or matching the striker who improved rapidly in his final 18 months at Newcastle. I’ve noted it before, but the kind of striker he is – the big, strong target-man without blistering pace – tends to get better with age and experience (as he learns how to take up better positions, and uses his wiles to trick and bully defenders). But it may need a move to a smaller club, for a smaller fee, to enable him to relax back into his game. Right now, it seems that there’s no end in sight to his tension.



Stewart Downing is another concern. He’s always been a good player, but once there’s a £20m price tag, people expect a great one. He started brightly, but has faded to relative anonymity. That said, he has done part of his job to good effect.

The ex-Villa winger has created a whopping 41 chances in the league this season, yet has no assists. Numbers can never tell you how good chances are, but it’s often not been his fault that the person on the end of the pass or cross hasn’t converted it.

There’s also no doubt that he started very brightly before losing his confidence; Nigel Clough Syndrome, as it were. Downing looks a fine addition to the squad, but needs to take more responsibility in the final third. He seems to shoot when 30 yards out, when nothing is expected, but passes the buck, and the ball, when better placed.

Then there’s Charlie Adam. I admit that I’m struggling a bit with the Scot, although since Lucas’ injury (and the injury and suspensions suffered by Spearing) he’s not had a partner who does the dirty work, which hasn’t helped. (Gerrard is just not tactically alert enough.)

Adam has great long-range passing ability, and can be hard to stop when he runs with the ball, but just seems so stupid at times: daft shots from his own half, daft tackles where he fouls on purpose, and even his famed set-pieces have stopped beating the first man. (Another sign of confidence and pressure; Adam’s corners have turned into a waste, and Carroll’s headers rarely trouble keepers.)

That said, Adam, at the fee paid, isn’t a bad signing. He’s certainly an upgrade on Christian Poulsen – just less so on Meireles and Aquilani.

Success Rates

I’ve referred to it many times, but my theory is that 50% seems to be a decent success rate for transfers. The more you pay, the greater the odds of success; even if it’s still nowhere near guaranteed. But overall, you’ll do well to better 50% of signings being spot-on.

(For Liverpool, only Bob Paisley bettered it; he still signed flops, but had an incredible success rate. Shankly, Benítez and Dalglish MKI didn’t have the best strike rates, but when they got it right, they added brilliance on numerous occasions. Houllier only really succeeded when buying defensive players, whereas Roy Evans got the Reds playing good attacking football, but didn’t make one great signing of any kind. Souness not only bought badly on the whole, but little was recouped from his deals.)

To date, based on the performances of the big signings (over £10m), Dalglish/Comolli have probably fallen below the usual success rate for such purchases; but with the cheaper ones, they have a better than average success rate.

If you look at Manchester City’s rise to the top, it came via a rapid keep-and-discard policy. They paid £25m for Emmanuel Adebayor, and awarded him three times the wages Andy Carroll receives; and yet now he’s loaned to Spurs, to help them challenge at the top. City still pay most of his £12m a year wages.

Jo, for £19m, came and went. Robinho broke the transfer record, but failed to show any commitment. Lescott is now playing well, but looked iffy for quite a while at £22m. Milner also took a while to look the part. Jerome Boateng cost £11m, but came and went. Tal Ben-Haim didn’t do anything. Then there’s £17.5m Santa Cruz.

Savic, for £9m, has looked shaky, but he’s a young defender, and that happens. However, Samir Nasri – full of Premier League experience (and excellence) – has failed to settle after a £22m move. Eden Dzeko has had just a couple of prolific months amid a year of profligacy; he was crap, then he was sensational, and now he’s just ‘okay’.

Of course, City can afford to let dead wood float to the outer regions of their squad, and take large financial hits on flops. But it shows how they didn’t just sign Aguero, Balotelli, Kompany, Silva, Yaya Toure et al in one fell swoop, and they weren’t all instantly outstanding. City bought just as many failures over the past four years, but successful teams are built by retaining the best buys in each window and, further down the line, cutting losses on the worst. City did it quickly, but it still took about four years to build this team.

Spurs remain ahead of Liverpool because they have been building over the past four or five years. Some of Comolli’s initial ‘flops’ from his time there now undoubtedly key men; particularly Bale and Modric.

This summer, Redknapp offloaded half of the misfiring strikers he’d bought (Keane and Crouch, who barely scored in the league last season), and appears to have invested more wisely this time around (although the aforementioned ‘borrowing’ of Adebayor suggests the loan ruling is a farce). Van der Vaart was a very good signing last season, but Steven Pienaar has disappeared without trace.

It’s clearly been a gradual process, though, and stability at the top, and Champions League qualification, has meant that they’ve held onto their best players. By comparison, Liverpool have been far more unsettled. By contrast, Liverpool are in transition.

Arsenal are also in transition; losing key men (Fabregas, Nasri), suffering injuries, and buying several new players in 2011. Oxlade-Chamberlain, costing £12m at just 18, looks a very good buy, although he’s only started one league game (his impact will be longer term). Mikel Arteta is another good buy, but even so, is Fabregas-Lite. However, the defending of Per Mertesacker and Andre Santos has been very poor in the games I’ve seen (as has the rookie Jenkinson, though at 19 he has an excuse), and Yossi Benayoun has barely featured. The Korean, Park Chu-Young, has made no impact whatsoever.

And Wenger is someone with an excellent transfer record.

Turnover

Bearing in mind my theory of a 50% strike rate on transfers, I’m always nervous when there’s a high turnover of players in a window. If you sell four good players, and buy four new players, you will almost certainly not end up with four successes; particularly so in the early period, when some acclimatisation may be necessary. For every good player you sell, you almost have to buy two to cover the odds of failure.

I think it’s fair to say that Liverpool needed to get rid of a fair few players in 2011. Some were on exorbitant wages, and some wanted out anyway; in many cases, it was players on exorbitant wages who wanted out. Plenty weren’t that young. Change was unavoidable.

So I hesitate before criticising the selling of these players, given the varying reasons behind the departures.

That said, Torres, Meireles, Aquilani, Babel and Cole (in terms of talent, if not application) were all experienced internationals with lots of ability. Would Liverpool be better off having kept them? If it was possible, then the short term, perhaps yes; even if, long term, these were not the future of the club.

Now, by contrast, it’s fair to say that Kyrgiakos’ time was up, and Poulsen’s time was up years ago. Degen had to be shown the door, as he’d probably not be able to find it himself. And Jovanovic never settled. Nabil El Zhar never lived up to early promise. And Insua, Ngog and Ayala were young and likely to have good careers, if not necessarily in the Liverpool first team (although I’m still not sure why Ayala wasn’t simply loaned to Norwich). These were the players that Liverpool didn’t particularly need.

Torres, Meireles, Aquilani and Babel, however, were players who, at the very least, were usually worthy of a place in Liverpool’s 18 man match-day squad. They weren’t perfect: Torres had grown moody, Meireles bottled tackles, Aquilani had injury issues and Babel could drive you mad.

But Torres was still fairly prolific for the Reds; Meireles was good enough for Chelsea to poach; Aquilani was cast off to the Italian champions; and Babel had raw pace and the ability to score a few goals, when he found his way in from a blind alley (and has since returned to the Dutch squad).

Were Carroll, Henderson, Adam and Downing likely to be better? Based on my theory, no.

To compare, the fees were almost identical; Liverpool spent approximately £75m on that new quartet, after raising roughly £73m. However, it’s only fair to note that the wages for the new players are considerably lower – several million pounds per year – and that the average age of the new quartet is more than two years younger.

In some ways it’s reminiscent of 2002. Houllier had recently got rid of (or lost the services of) Fowler, Barmby, Babbel, McAllister, Litmanen and Ziege, who had played varying roles in two impressive seasons, and to replace them, spent a lot of money on young French-based players, in Diouf, Cheyrou and Diao. Experience and quality was lost, with little gained in return. Even though a case can be made for offloading each of those sold – age, injuries, attitude, etc – on the whole it proved counterproductive.

In 2002, Liverpool wasted money in France, and a cry when up to buy from these shores; now people think the Reds are wasting money in England. Of course, whereas Diao, Cheyrou and Diouf left as flops, the current crop still have time to prove themselves. But it does show the perils of overhauling a squad.

In order to add three or four successes, Liverpool had to buy twice that number of players, to beat the law of averages. Upgrading on flops is easy; the worst you can do is end up with more-or-less what you had to start with. Replacing quality is much harder.

And if you want to compare those two aforementioned quartets, and find unfavourably on the new guys, you have to then look at the remainder: Suarez, Bellamy, Coates and Enrique versus Ngog, Jovanovic, Insua and Poulsen.

With the 2011 net spend around £35m, but with the wage bill slashed due to lack of Champions League income, it could be said that Liverpool haven’t really moved on (or regressed) that much; reshaping the squad, without getting into debt.

The Reds are on course for 60 points, which is still 12 more than the tally (pro rata) posted under Hodgson, but have also won away at Stoke, Chelsea and Manchester City in the cup; three undeniably fine results that have taken the Reds to the brink of their first final since 2007. That’s clearly some kind of progress.

Crucially, the average age of the squad has been significantly lowered, which suggests that improvement is possible, as individuals mature and as the players get to know one another better.

But of course, the risk is also that these young men never come of age, and end up as dead wood. Making mistakes is part and parcel of the transfer business; but big decisions may lie in who deserves an extended period of perseverance, and who represents losses to be swiftly cut.

kop77

***

Former Liverpool FC hero Dietmar Hamann questions Andy Carroll’s desire to be a success at Anfield

FORMER Liverpool FC midfielder Dietmar Hamann has questioned striker Andy Carroll's desire to be a success at Anfield.

The Reds' record £35million signing once again struggled in Saturday's 3-1 defeat at Bolton.

Carroll has scored just six goals in 34 appearances for the club since his move from Newcastle United a year ago and is without a league strike since October.

Hamann insists the time has come for the big frontman to start giving Liverpool a return on their huge investment.

“Has Andy got that hunger and that desire to succeed?” Hamann said. “Does he want it badly enough?
“He gets all the help from the club and the fans he can, but at the end of the day it’s down to him.
“I know players are not machines and that some find it harder to adapt than others but he’s not a foreigner, he’s an English player who knows what’s required in the Premier League.
“The club has showed faith in him. Newcastle asked £35m. They could have waited until the summer and got three players for that price.
“Kenny Dalglish and the fans have showed tremendous faith. Now it’s time to deliver.”

Hamann was left infuriated by Carroll's performance after coming off the bench against Stoke at Anfield recently.

“The reception he got when he came on against Stoke was great. You would have thought Steven Gerrard was coming on,” Hamann said.
“But changing his boots like that annoyed me and the punters. He came on for 30 minutes and he slipped three times and then he changes his boots – so he’s on the touchline for two minutes.
“This is a lack of professionalism. It’s unacceptable. That’s how people get negative. When he comes on he’s got to make sure he’s got the right footwear. I had steam coming out of my ears.
“He’s got all the ingredients; a good touch for a big man, rocket of a left foot, very good in the air – what more do you need?
“Liverpool fans are very knowledgeable and they see the potential in him, otherwise they may have given up the ghost. But if the fans turn he may find it even harder to score.
“If he does start performing it could be a trip to the Euros with England. If he wants it he’ll go. But does he? I don’t know.”

Sappy404

Sindri wrote: »

Hi guys, this is my first post in the Liverpool thread, I'm a big supporter.

What I really want to post about is Andy Carroll.

In my opinion he's a Geordie Kevin Kilbane i.e. a donkey, except he's a donkey that's worth £35 million.

Can someone please explain to me why we bought a donkey for £35 million when there's scores of decent players for a similar price or decent young players for a lot less?

I find it difficult to watch a match that he plays in. I don't know if he's angry at the ball or if he's trying make love to the ball but it's a stark contrast to the Latin grace of Suarez.

I know he's young but he's not worth £35 million, Pardew must be laughing all the way to the bank.

Sorry if this has been discussed in detail before or if there is another thread for it.

EDIT

Please note I am being civil and trying to keep in-line with the charter. There would be many expletives if I was discussing this in real life and calls to 'have him taken care of'.

jebidiah

Kenny - "It was certainly an unacceptable performance. Now we will get our minds on the Man City game. We have to solve our own problems. What do we do to put it right? Same as we always do - we work."

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/kenny-we-ll-work-to-put-it-right

niallo27

Loads of tickets left for saturday, i thought it would be tough to get one for this.

amiable

niallo27 wrote: »

Loads of tickets left for saturday, i thought it would be tough to get one for this.

Must check Ryanair

111 euro return.

LuckyLloyd

Sasquatch76 wrote: »

I can't see KK forcing the owners into making a decision by digging his heels in. Kenny will do right by the club, even if it means going upstairs.

This bears repeating. Kenny won't force a crisis, he'll move aside if he feels he's hit a wall.

LuckyLloyd

One thing that's always worth remembering lads is that periods like this (i.e. August 2009 to now) make the good times all the sweeter. 1991 - 2000 made 2001 and 2005 all the more joyous. We've experienced tough times before and will again, but we'll dig our way out. Everyone should enjoy this week - great to have two huge home games in succession.

niallo27

amiable wrote: »

Must check Ryanair

111 euro return.

Im flying out from cork saturday morning with aer arann. 80 euro

NabyLadistheman

Thinking of booking flights to London before the 2nd leg? Do I need my head checking? €40 return not a bad burn

amiable

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/media-watch/liverpool-deny-jelavic-chase

Liverpool FC have distanced themselves from reports suggesting they are leading the chase to sign Rangers striker Nikica Jelavic.


The Croatian frontman's father has said he expects the 26-year-old, who is the SPL's top scorer with 14 goals this season, to move to Anfield before the end of the transfer window.

But the Reds have played down their interest in the frontman who is being pursued by Fulham, Queens Park Rangers and West Ham.

Liverpool have been offered Juventus' Milos Krasic with the Serie A outfit keen to off-load the out of favour winger. However, Krasic is being touted around Europe this month and there is no indication that the Reds are going to make a bid for the Serbian international.

Liverpool midfielder Lucas is set to return to Melwood today after flying back to Merseyside from Brazil.

The midfielder, who is sidelined for the rest of the season with a cruciate ligament injury, spent six weeks recuperating in South America after undergoing surgery in early December.

amiable

niallo27 wrote: »

Im flying out from cork saturday morning with aer arann. 80 euro

Give me a shout if the plane needs a push start:p

amiable

Suarezistheman wrote: »

Thinking of booking flights to London before the 2nd leg? Do I need my head checking? €40 return not a bad burn

40 euro isn't too bad an amount to lose if we do collapse on Wednesday

mike65

Quickie - if Liverpool reach the League Cup final should the FA Cup be contested fully? Or should the energies of the squad be aimed entirely at the PL? (obviously if Utd win that'll be the case anyway but none the less I put the question!)

Leiva

mike65 wrote: »

Quickie - if Liverpool reach the League Cup final should the FA Cup be contested fully? Or should the energies of the squad be aimed entirely at the PL? (obviously if Utd win that'll be the case anyway but none the less I put the question!)

PL all the way for me .

Kess73

mike65 wrote: »

Quickie - if Liverpool reach the League Cup final should the FA Cup be contested fully? Or should the energies of the squad be aimed entirely at the PL? (obviously if Utd win that'll be the case anyway but none the less I put the question!)

For as long as we are in the FA cup we should be trying to win it.

ush

mike65 wrote: »

Quickie - if Liverpool reach the League Cup final should the FA Cup be contested fully? Or should the energies of the squad be aimed entirely at the PL? (obviously if Utd win that'll be the case anyway but none the less I put the question!)

Neither of the cups should have been contested. They should have been used to give the second string a competitive fixture. They'll cost us fourth.

Handsome Bob

The race for a Top 4 finish should take precedence over the FA Cup.

ush

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

One thing that's always worth remembering lads is that periods like this (i.e. August 2009 to now) make the good times all the sweeter. 1991 - 2000 made 2001 and 2005 all the more joyous. We've experienced tough times before and will again, but we'll dig our way out. Everyone should enjoy this week - great to have two huge home games in succession.

Thing is the world was alot different then. Champions League, Liverpool as a global brand, oil rich club owners....LFC can't afford a few years in the wilderness.

kingshankly

Suarezistheman wrote: »

Thinking of booking flights to London before the 2nd leg? Do I need my head checking? €40 return not a bad burn

I have already booked ill be in anfield wednesday so hopefully unfit to do it there and then.
Was only 40 euro mind you there's that many options to London can't see them going up to much
Please god palace get thru so hotels won't be required by them

citytillidie

Win a cup over finishing in the top 4 any day of the week for this season at least.

Kess73

ush wrote: »

Neither of the cups should have been contested. They should have been used to give the second string a competitive fixture. They'll cost us fourth.

Handsome Bob wrote: »

The race for a Top 4 finish should take precedence over the FA Cup.

And what if we do get 4th, do we then have to decide whether or not we contest the CL next season?


If our squad is so weak that we cannot contest a domestic cup or two along with the league, then it is in no shape to even think about trying to compete in Europe at the same time as the league.

manual_man

Kess73 wrote: »

ush wrote: »

Neither of the cups should have been contested. They should have been used to give the second string a competitive fixture. They'll cost us fourth.

Handsome Bob wrote: »

The race for a Top 4 finish should take precedence over the FA Cup.

And what if we do get 4th, do we then have to decide whether or not we contest the CL next season?


If our squad is so weak that we cannot contest a domestic cup or two along with the league, then it is in no shape to even think about trying to compete in Europe at the same time as the league.

Talk about jumping the gun. It's early days pal...

ush

citytillidie wrote: »

Win a cup over finishing in the top 4 any day of the week for this season at least.

Winning a cup will be a Pyrrhic Victory.

Not finishing in the top 4 means losing Suarez to a CL outfit. Losing Suarez means back to square one.

Not qualifying for the CL means its harder to attract quality players.

I think its very much either/or. This squad is being spread too thin and there's no inward movement on the transfer market. We have two good strikers, one is banned and the other is made of glass. Bellamy can't keep this up. We got 6 pts from a possible 18 and we have to play the two best teams in the country again, before we have another league match.

ush

Kess73 wrote: »

And what if we do get 4th, do we then have to decide whether or not we contest the CL next season?


If our squad is so weak that we cannot contest a domestic cup or two along with the league, then it is in no shape to even think about trying to compete in Europe at the same time as the league.

There's two transfer windows between now and the CL. We shouldn't this squad going into that. There's alot of work to be done on it.

Handsome Bob

Kess73 wrote: »

And what if we do get 4th, do we then have to decide whether or not we contest the CL next season?


If our squad is so weak that we cannot contest a domestic cup or two along with the league, then it is in no shape to even think about trying to compete in Europe at the same time as the league.

Well, you saw how our team did on Saturday, that was our best team on paper with the exception of Lucas and Suarez. They're hardly capable as it is of mounting an assault on the Top 4, never mind capable of a two pronged attack.

Crash Bang Wall

Kess73 wrote: »

For as long as we are in the FA cup we should be trying to win it.

Beat United first and then concentrate on 4th place. As I reckon City will win the title, it would be great if United won no silverware.

Although I would love a FA Cup, I think 4th place is far more important especially if we are to attract top players to Anfield in the summer. If not we will be buying the likes of Delph from Villa for crazy money next summer instead of going after players of the calibre of Cavani/Higuain etc

manual_man

Top six is a realistic expectation with the absolute mess that was when Kenny took over. Fourth would be a massive bonus. People are getting carried away with the initial wave of euphoria that came with his appointment. That was always going to fizzle out. Things will need to change, yes, but this new team of ours is gaining more and more experience as they go along, and that will stand to them in the long run. Trust. Y.N.W.A.

~Rebel~

ush wrote: »

Winning a cup will be a Pyrrhic Victory.

Not finishing in the top 4 means losing Suarez to a CL outfit.

It doesn't really.

I'd be hugely surprised if Suarez left this summer, regardless what happens - especially if he wins a trophy.

hefferboi

Welcome back Lucas

Fowler87

ush wrote: »

Winning a cup will be a Pyrrhic Victory.

Not finishing in the top 4 means losing Suarez to a CL outfit. Losing Suarez means back to square one.

Not qualifying for the CL means its harder to attract quality players.

I think its very much either/or. This squad is being spread too thin and there's no inward movement on the transfer market. We have two good strikers, one is banned and the other is made of glass. Bellamy can't keep this up. We got 6 pts from a possible 18 and we have to play the two best teams in the country again, before we have another league match.

If we get another 40-50m perhaps. JWH wont allow another prized asset be sold on a wim..

mike65

Break out the placenta!

_blank_

~Rebel~ wrote: »

It doesn't really.

I'd be hugely surprised if Suarez left this summer, regardless what happens - especially if he wins a trophy.

I can't see Suarez leaving this summer, no.

But, if next Aug-December goes badly, and Liverpool aren't either in the Top 4 or even slightly chllenging to be in the Top 4, expect rumblings from either Suarez himself (some "lost in translation" interview while away with Uruguay, or a "source" story most likely) or his agent making noises about a move to Inter Milan or PSG.

kop77

Cartman78

^
He would have done a better job on crutches tracking Eagles and Reo-Coker than either Adam or Gerrard managed on Saturday

Morzadec

mike65 wrote: »

Quickie - if Liverpool reach the League Cup final should the FA Cup be contested fully? Or should the energies of the squad be aimed entirely at the PL? (obviously if Utd win that'll be the case anyway but none the less I put the question!)

4th is obviously the priority but I still think we should play a first team in the FA Cup. We're not in Europe, we've bolstered the squad to the extent that we don't have to have youth players on the bench and can bring on established players.

If we knock out Utd that'll be City and United out of the Cup. We'd be up there with the favourites. It's a great opportunity with them having to come to Anfield.

I think we'll miss out on 4th either way this season. The all-important points that will tell the difference in May have already been dropped imo. We should still do our utmost and obviously we're still in the race, but I don't think we should be ignoring the FA Cup.

Saturday's a huge game imo

hefferboi

Would loaning Carroll out to someone where there'll be no pressure and he can get his confidence back be a bad idea? Henry would have to splash on a big striker.

LuckyLloyd

ush wrote: »

Winning a cup will be a Pyrrhic Victory.

Not finishing in the top 4 means losing Suarez to a CL outfit. Losing Suarez means back to square one.

Not qualifying for the CL means its harder to attract quality players.

I think its very much either/or. This squad is being spread too thin and there's no inward movement on the transfer market. We have two good strikers, one is banned and the other is made of glass. Bellamy can't keep this up. We got 6 pts from a possible 18 and we have to play the two best teams in the country again, before we have another league match.

Huh?

As for the harder to attract quality players argument, this has been dealt with before (hint: Suarez, Meireles!), but basically we are more attractive (and will be for a long time yet) than a bunch of clubs that have CL football. Tradition still counts for a lot in that respect. Yes, we are behind the very best Spanish, English and Italian clubs - but we're doing fine relative to Lille, Basle, etc.

niallo27

amiable wrote: »

Give me a shout if the plane needs a push start:p

I know ya, them planes are ****en shocking, you feel every bump on them.

Sappy404

If the upcoming cup matches are to blame for that result on Saturday then it's not the fault of the club for being in those cups, but of the players who didn't give Bolton enough respect and allowed themselves to be distracted by the cup matches.

amiable

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/two-fixture-changes

Two of Liverpool's Barclays Premier League fixtures in March and April have been switched for live television coverage by Sky Sports.

The Anfield clash with Arsenal stays on Saturday, March 3, but the kick-off has been brought forward to 12.45pm.

The away trip to Newcastle United has now been moved from Saturday, March 31, to Sunday, April 1, and will kick-off at 1.30pm.

kop77

***

Two of Liverpool's Barclays Premier League fixtures in March and April have been switched for live television coverage by Sky Sports.



The Anfield clash with Arsenal stays on Saturday, March 3, but the kick-off has been brought forward to 12.45pm.
The away trip to Newcastle United has now been moved from Saturday, March 31, to Sunday, April 1, and will kick-off at 1.30pm.

amiable

niallo27 wrote: »

I know ya, them planes are ****en shocking, you feel every bump on them.

I was on one that made an crash landing and skidded off the runway in Lorient in France.
Didn't realise what was happening til it was all over.

Kess73

Am stunned that anyone would want to just ignore the cups and gamble that not being in the cups meant we would get 4th.

The club needs to get silverware in again. It needs it.

Whether it is the League cup, the FA cup or whatever.

We need to get a win under the belt and then try to take that winning mentality a step further.


Think back to the 2000/2001 season. The squad was not massive then either, but winning the League cup back then seemed to galvanise the team and give them the belief in themselves that they could keep winning. The FA cup and UEFA cup followed that season. I doubt if anyone here was unhappy that season.

I can still remember being at the 2006 FA cup final, and I know I was buzzing to be there. I have felt the same at each and every final the club has been in since the late 80's. I don't care if the final if for the league cuip or the Champioins league, I just want my club to win it.

I get where people are coming from when they say they want the club to concentrate only on the league, but my mentality towards things is that if you can win it then you go for it.

Right now there are three targets on the table in the form of a CL spot, the League cup, and the FA cup. For as long as each can be realistically fought for, I expect the manager and players to go for them.

ush

Des wrote: »

I can't see Suarez leaving this summer, no.

I can. I'd be fairly sure there clauses in his contract about CL football. Either Liverpool needing to be in it or having to entertain bid from CL teams. The club is going, if they haven't already, are going to receive bids that are far more that what LFC paid for him. Also, he knows he can earn alot more abroad, without receiving the flak he's gonna to get at every EPL away ground now.

Meanwhile, the albatross Carroll hangs around our neck.

Liverpool need to invest heavily this transfer period.

YouTookMyName

I think the winning the league cup would take the pressure off, knowing they have guaranteed a uefa cup spot they could push on for the european cup place.

Leiva

hefferboi wrote: »

Would loaning Carroll out to someone where there'll be no pressure and he can get his confidence back be a bad idea? Henry would have to splash on a big striker.

If Carroll is to be loaned i would prefer for him to be sold .

redzerdrog

kenny also loves the fa cup and i have no doubt he will be trying just as hard to win silverware as he is to finishing 4th

Morzadec

Kess73 wrote: »

Am stunned that anyone would want to just ignore the cups and gamble that not being in the cups meant we would get 4th.

The club needs to get silverware in again. It needs it.

Whether it is the League cup, the FA cup or whatever.

We need to get a win under the belt and then try to take that winning mentality a step further.


Think back to the 2000/2001 season. The squad was not massive then either, but winning the League cup back then seemed to galvanise the team and give them the belief in themselves that they could keep winning. The FA cup and UEFA cup followed that season. I doubt if anyone here was unhappy that season.

I can still remember being at the 2006 FA cup final, and I know I was buzzing to be there. I have felt the same at each and every final the club has been in since the late 80's. I don't care if the final if for the league cuip or the Champioins league, I just want my club to win it.

I get where people are coming from when they say they want the club to concentrate only on the league, but my mentality towards things is that if you can win it then you go for it.

Right now there are three targets on the table in the form of a CL spot, the League cup, and the FA cup. For as long as each can be realistically fought for, I expect the manager and players to go for them.

This is it really. The League Cup isn't a big trophy, but winning it would do wonders for belief and getting a winning mentality.

I really think City winning the FA Cup was huge for them last season. United went 3 years without a title 04 -06, but won the League Cup in 06 and kicked on from there.

I'm by no means saying that we'll suddenly start challenging for the title next year just because of some added belief/confidence/mentality but if we can get some silverware it'll be a big boost for next season.