Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12-Jan 2012 onwards

kryogen

opr wrote: »

Opr

Can almost see Evra drooling at the thought of making contact there

noodler

punk_one82 wrote: »

You're saying the intent was clearly to scare/intimidate Evra. What proof have you got of that other than your opinion? You're analysing where his studs were in a split second clip. How is it going to intimidate Evra when he's nowhere near the ball? How would anyone even find that intimidating? It's actually such a non-event, but say you're right and Suarez intended to intimidate Evra.....what is the problem? If he never intended to hurt anyone but was intending to gain a psychological advantage....what did he do wrong? It's football.

The unnatural and accelerated movement of his right foot towards Evra after he has kicked the ball is the 'evidence'.

Why would somebody find it intimidating to feel a set of stud are heading for their upper body?

So after all that arguing, you finally concede the possibility and your response is "whats wrong with that"?

It isn't a clever thing to do on a football pitch, particularly when you are skating on the kind of thin ice Suarez is.

Chucky the tree

kryogen wrote: »

This is irrelevant though really, no matter how disappointed you would be in a team mate you would defend him publicly, especially in that game against those opponents, in that stadium. Really cant see how any conclusions can be drawn from that.

Think for a minute what the reaction of the media/fans/manager/club would have been if the players left one of their own out to dry, so to speak?

Wouldnt happen.

Yet purposely not celebrating a goal with him would be seens as fine and perfectly acceptable?

ollie1

noodler wrote: »

No, by using the fact his foot will already be high to steer the base of his foot towards Evra in order to give the Utd player the impression he is about to get kicked.

It is extremely petulant - and cowardly to be quite frank.

He was going for the ball not Evra your just seeing things you want to see.

K-9

kryogen wrote: »

This is irrelevant though really, no matter how disappointed you would be in a team mate you would defend him publicly, especially in that game against those opponents, in that stadium. Really cant see how any conclusions can be drawn from that.

Think for a minute what the reaction of the media/fans/manager/club would have been if the players left one of their own out to dry, so to speak?

Wouldnt happen.

But that still doesn't mean the team didn't celebrate the goal much meant anything. Suarez and the rest showed restraint, could have made a big deal, but just got on with it. Seen that type of "celebration" loads of times before. Nothing can be read into it.

SlickRic

also, it's being made out that i'm the only Liverpool fan that thinks like this.

i've countless people on FB, and closer friends, change their stance on the whole Suarez/Kenny issue since Saturday. people who were belligerently anti-Utd and pro-Kenny. it seems to not be "cool" to highlight errors from Kenny, and Suarez even occasionally. i don't get that. the club comes first, and if i think they've not acted in the best interests of the club, i'll say it. just like if they do brilliantly, i'll say it even more readily.

now, the celebration thing, i only saw live, and haven't watched the highlights (do you blame me?!), so i obviously read too much into that. so apologies for that mistake. it seemed odd at the time, but considering the context of the match, and that we were still losing, that's fine, maybe they just weren't in the mood to celebrate anything, or acknowledge the goal with Luis. that's fine. as i say, my bad.

but i will still maintain our PR has been a disaster on this, and i'm delighted it's been put right for now.

noodler

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I can understand the "he's trying to kick the ball at Evra" claims, but to suggest anything more sinister than that is quite laughable.

In fairness it is quite laughable to watch that clip and then say that Suarez's only intention was to kick the ball out of play.

EDIT: Its worth pointing out that the only reason this particular incident is being exacerbated is because there is half a dozen or so posters who are denying there was anything in the least bit untoward about it.

Nobody has suggested bans, or FA disciplinary committees or anything like that but the the refusal to recognise the unnatural swinging of his right boot towards Evra after making contact with the ball is the reason for the last page or so of posts (that and me obviously).

punk_one82

noodler wrote: »

The unnatural and accelerated movement of his right foot towards Evra after he has kicked the ball is the 'evidence'.

Why would somebody find it intimidating to feel a set of stud are heading for their upper body?

So after all that arguing, you finally concede the possibility and your response is "whats wrong with that"?

It isn't a clever thing to do on a football pitch, particularly when you are skating on the kind of thin ice Suarez is.

Studs heading for their upper body? Suggesting that is the case is actually laughable. So one minute he never intended to make contact yet the next his studs are heading for Evra's torso? Seriously, which one is it? I didn't concede the possibility. There's no doubt in my mind that you're wrong. You're arguing two separate points, one which isn't in any way out of order for Suarez, and the other which never happened.

ollie1

noodler wrote: »

In fairness it is quite laughable to watch that clip and then say that Suarez's only intention was to kick the ball out of play.

He hits the ball on the volley and thats why his foot is high no other reason.

kryogen

K-9 wrote: »

But that still doesn't mean the team didn't celebrate the goal much meant anything. Suarez and the rest showed restraint, could have made a big deal, but just got on with it. Seen that type of "celebration" loads of times before. Nothing can be read into it.

I agree, I didnt say the non celebration at the goal was a sign they were not happy with him, I dont think anything can be read into either situation.

Fuhrer

ollie1 wrote: »

He hits the ball on the volley and thats why his foot is high no other reason.

Do you even know what a volley is?

Kess73

punk_one82 wrote: »

Studs heading for their upper body? Suggesting that is the case is actually laughable. So one minute he never intended to make contact yet the next his studs are heading for Evra's torso? Seriously, which one is it? I didn't concede the possibility. There's no doubt in my mind that you're wrong. You're arguing two separate points, one which isn't in any way out of order for Suarez, and the other which never happened.

To be fair Suarez did go in with a bit of mongrel about his clearance, and he made a point of eyeballing Evra straight away afterwards.


Watching the game live it seemed like he did it on purpose and it looked like the action of a man with a grudge/point to prove, just as Evra's attempt at a challenge in the first minute looked like nothing more than an attempt to go in as hard as possible because it was Suarez.


Both were as bad as the other imho.

The Chessplayer

Anyone else think James McClean could do a job for us? Surely Kenny's been keeping an eye.

Apart from Suarez, who do people think are the most likely players to leave Anfield this summer? My money is on Glen Johnson, given both the form of Martin Kelly and that we have Flanagan in reserve. Any more rumours of Aquilani returning to the fold?

Jesus Wept

PaulieC wrote: »

The guy's possibly the best poster in the SF Lloyd, come off it

Ouch baby, ouch.

SlickRic

Suarez isn't trying to "do" Evra.

he's just being petulant is all. no crime there; just a snapshot of his whole demeanor on the day.

K-9

ollie1 wrote: »

He hits the ball on the volley and thats why his foot is high no other reason.

Yep, I don't see how he is expected to stop his foot from naturally falling like that. Bit of a stupid thing to do though considering the player it is.

mike65

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Anyone else think James McClean could do a job for us? Surely Kenny's been keeping an eye.

Apart from Suarez, who do people think are the most likely players to leave Anfield this summer? My money is on Glen Johnson, given both the form of Martin Kelly and that we have Flanagan in reserve. Any more rumours of Aquilani returning to the fold?

Why would Johnson leave?

My list of candidates as of now - Suarez, Kuyt, Maxi, Downing (if things don't pick up), Aurelio.

punk_one82

Kess73 wrote: »

To be fair Suarez did go in with a bit of mongrel about his clearance, and he made a point of eyeballing Evra straight away afterwards.


Watching the game live it seemed like he did it on purpose and it looked like the action of a man with a grudge/point to prove, just as Evra's attempt at a challenge in the first minute looked like nothing more than an attempt to go in as hard as possible because it was Suarez.


Both were as bad as the other imho.

I agree there was anger in it, but I just don't agree Suarez had any intention of using his studs. I think he intended to hit Evra with the ball if anything, and I don't see anything wrong with that. As for Evra's challenge, I see that as being worse, but at the same time I don't have much of a problem with it(however, I am glad Suarez managed to push Rio into Evra's path). Aggression is being taken out of the game and I don't agree with it. Let football have encounters like this. It keeps it interesting. About Suarez having a grudge/point to prove, is that actually a problem? He feels he was wrongly found guilty and now he's being branded a racist by countless numbers of people. Let him have a point to prove and a grudge and let's hope he proves it. I sincerely doubt Suarez is the only player in the league to dislike Evra. I know I hate him.

super_furry

SlickRic wrote: »

also, it's being made out that i'm the only Liverpool fan that thinks like

you're not. Aside from the celebration thing I'm in almost complete agreement.

Dr Galen

noodler wrote: »

In fairness it is quite laughable to watch that clip and then say that Suarez's only intention was to kick the ball out of play.

EDIT: Its worth pointing out that the only reason this particular incident is being exacerbated is because there is half a dozen or so posters who are denying there was anything in the least bit untoward about it.

Nobody has suggested bans, or FA disciplinary committees or anything like that but the the refusal to recognise the unnatural swinging of his right boot towards Evra after making contact with the ball is the reason for the last page or so of posts (that and me obviously).

You are grasping when you talk about Suarez raised boot/studs and intimating that he deliberately did this, to either intimidate or even make contact with Evra.

What is clear though imo, is that Suarez was intending to launch that ball straight at Evra, placing both somewhere in 'row z". In actual fact, I think he miskicked it, and it went out, thats why his foot angle seems a bit weird.

Still not a great course of action though. If he had of made proper contact with the ball and knocked Evra out for example, then there would be hell to pay. Pretty silly and petulant from him I agree. As was Evra's attempted tackled that creamed Rio. Two wrongs don't make a right though, it's pretty clear to me anyway, that both of them acted like knobs.

This whole sorry saga needs to be put to bed. Hopefully the input from the owners will have knocked a few heads together, and people can start moving past it.

K-9

Who would buy Suarez now after all the controversy, particularly pay £30 Million +.

He had a fiery reputation before all this and this hardly helps.

kryogen

punk_one82 wrote: »

I sincerely doubt Evra is the only player in the league to dislike Suarez.

Pretty sure that sentence could work this way too.

The Chessplayer

mike65 wrote: »

Why would Johnson leave?

My list of candidates as of now - Suarez, Kuyt, Maxi, Downing (if things don't pick up), Aurelio.

I'd agree with that list but can't see Downing being sold. We're so weak on the wings that Downing's versatility would be enough to keep him in the team, unfortunately.

As for Johnson, i think a case could be made for cashing in on him with Kelly and Flanagan waiting in the wings.

Handsome Bob

noodler wrote: »

In fairness it is quite laughable to watch that clip and then say that Suarez's only intention was to kick the ball out of play.

He's a nutter, but he's not that much of a nutter.

If he makes contact he's sent off, and in that scenario even his most hardline supporters would turn their back on him.

kryogen

K-9 wrote: »

Who would buy Suarez now after all the controversy, particularly pay £30 Million +.

He had a fiery reputation before all this and this hardly helps.

Id imagine Milan would take him, Inter too and Madrid would probably find a home for him

punk_one82

kryogen wrote: »

Pretty sure that sentence could work this way too.

It definitely could. I have no doubt Suarez is hated by a lot of people. I'm just glad he's a Liverpool player.

punk_one82

Dr Galen wrote: »

You are grasping when you talk about Suarez raised boot/studs and intimating that he deliberately did this, to either intimidate or even make contact with Evra.

What is clear though imo, is that Suarez was intending to launch that ball straight at Evra, placing both somewhere in 'row z". In actual fact, I think he miskicked it, and it went out, thats why his foot angle seems a bit weird.

Still not a great course of action though. If he had of made proper contact with the ball and knocked Evra out for example, then there would be hell to pay. Pretty silly and petulant from him I agree. As was Evra's attempted tackled that creamed Rio. Two wrongs don't make a right though, it's pretty clear to me anyway, that both of them acted like knobs.

This whole sorry saga needs to be put to bed. Hopefully the input from the owners will have knocked a few heads together, and people can start moving past it.

This.

Jesus Wept

Just to reiterate, the only issue I had with it was that he didn't try to play the ball. If the right thing to do is to clear it then fair enough.
It was nothing about him trying 'to do' Evra or kick a ball in his vague direction.

ollie1

Fuhrer wrote: »

Do you even know what a volley is?

Yes I do.

Thrill

Back......and to the left. Back....and to the left

noodler

Kess73 wrote: »

To be fair Suarez did go in with a bit of mongrel about his clearance, and he made a point of eyeballing Evra straight away afterwards.

He did.

SlickRic wrote: »

Suarez isn't trying to "do" Evra.

he's just being petulant is all. no crime there; just a snapshot of his whole demeanor on the day.

He is being petulant absolutely.

Don't let any other poster con you into believing I ever said Suarez's intention was to actually make contact.

Handsome Bob wrote: »

He's a nutter, but he's not that much of a nutter.

If he makes contact he's sent off, and in that scenario even his most hardline supporters would turn their back on him.

Again, I haven't said anything about Suarez intending to actually make contact. That was implied by some of the reponses but is entirely inaccurate.

SlickRic

super_furry wrote: »

you're not. Aside from the celebration thing I'm in almost complete agreement.

which i've acknowledged was reading far too much into it. i added 2 + 2 and maybe got 11...seen as i added his demeanor throughout the day with the lack of celebration with teammates for the goal.

i was just very annoyed that the whole issue wasn't swept away immediately so our club could get back to being about football.

though the Arsenal fan i was watching it with thought it was genius. better than any soap opera or pantomime you'd like to pick out. Sky must have thought their birthday, Christmas and Valentine's Day had all come at once.

noodler

Dr Galen wrote: »

You are grasping when you talk about Suarez raised boot/studs and intimating that he deliberately did this, to either intimidate or even make contact with Evra.

Sure, you are lying straight out by suggesting I ever said Suarez's intention was to make contact.

EDIT: But I see you thanked my above post so maybe agree that I never said Suarez's intent was to do so.

kryogen

ollie1 wrote: »

Yes I do.

Are you sure?

Glico Man

K-9 wrote: »

Who would buy Suarez now after all the controversy, particularly pay £30 Million +.

He had a fiery reputation before all this and this hardly helps.

Real maybe? I hear they like signing players of a certain reputation. Pepe, Ramos, Marcelo... even aul Arby has taken a turn since he moved there. Would certainly suit their manager too

ollie1

kryogen wrote: »

Are you sure?

Yep and you know what I meant.

Dr Galen

noodler wrote: »

No, by using the fact his foot will already be high to steer the base of his foot towards Evra in order to give the Utd player the impression he is about to get kicked.

It is extremely petulant - and cowardly to be quite frank.

Relax will ya!

Fair enough, I see what you said, you were talking about intimidating him, scaring him, and not actually making contact with his foot. (quoted above) Just because others are jumping at you, don't think I am, I'm really not!

We have a different opinion on what Suarez was trying to do, but we both agree he was acting the bollix.

mike65

Standard Chartered have their say

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/13/luis-suarez-liverpool-standard-chartered

Liverpool's US owners and their shirt sponsor have intervened to help defuse the race row surrounding Luis Suárez's refusal to shake Patrice Evra's hand before Liverpool's defeat at Manchester United on Saturday.

Standard Chartered, which pays around £20m a season to sponsor Liverpool, went public with its criticism in a brief statement, saying: "We were very disappointed by Saturday's incident and have discussed our concerns with the club." A person familiar with the matter said: "It was a very robust conversation."

Standard Chartered was attracted to Liverpool by its strong Asian support base. The bank is based in London but makes almost all its profits in Asia. Most of its staff are in Asia, Africa and the Middle East.

Dr Galen

noodler wrote: »

Sure, you are lying straight out by suggesting I ever said Suarez's intention was to make contact.

EDIT: But I see you thanked my above post so maybe agree that I never said Suarez's intent was to do so.

hug it out?

kryogen

ollie1 wrote: »

Yep and you know what I meant.

Take another look at where the ball is

you surely cant really believe thats a volley?

Laika1986

I'm not sure if this has been posted but it's well worth a listen, John Barnes on talksport

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/press-pass/blog/2012-02-12/barnes-racism-within-football-not-being-dealt-properly

missingtime

Did it cross anyones mind that he was trying to kick the ball at him because it might go off Evra and out for a throw to Liverpool?

Seems fairly logical?

amiable

Laika1986 wrote: »

I'm not sure if this has been posted but it's well worth a listen, John Barnes on talksport

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/press-pass/blog/2012-02-12/barnes-racism-within-football-not-being-dealt-properly

It was posted by Kess last night but well worth a listen

I think Paddy Barclay's bollocks actually shrivelled up

Vudgie

missingtime wrote: »

Did it cross anyones mind that he was trying to kick the ball at him because it might go off Evra and out for a throw to Liverpool?

Seems fairly logical?

Of course that's what he was doing but if it had slammed off Evra's leg etc that would have been a bonus.

It was a petulant move but that's all it was in my opinion.

ollie1

kryogen wrote: »

Take another look at where the ball is

you surely cant really believe thats a volley?

Half volley then.

Handsome Bob

noodler wrote: »

He is being petulant absolutely.

Don't let any other poster con you into believing I ever said Suarez's intention was to actually make contact.

Right....

No, by using the fact his foot will already be high to steer the base of his foot towards Evra in order to give the Utd player the impression he is about to get kicked.

It is extremely petulant - and cowardly to be quite frank.

So what are you saying here, that Suarez is a fcuking idiot (your words) because he gave Evra an impression that he was going to be kicked?

That is an extremely risky game for Suarez to play as all it takes is for Evra to walk into it and Suarez is off.

Players don't give "impressions"; if they want to do someone, they will, or injure themselves trying. :pac:

ShamoBuc

missingtime wrote: »

Did it cross anyones mind that he was trying to kick the ball at him because it might go off Evra and out for a throw to Liverpool?

Seems fairly logical?

That's not allowed in here apparently.

Kess73

kryogen wrote: »

Take another look at where the ball is

you surely cant really believe thats a volley?

Come on fella, is the fact it was not a volley really worth debating?:D

Jesus Wept

Having re-analysed the gif, I can confirm that Patrice Evra actually kicks the ball at Suarez.

kryogen

Kess73 wrote: »

Come on fella, is the fact it was not a volley really worth debating?:D

Only to disprove the post that said ge was volleying the ball so his leg was coming down that way naturally

Ridiculous I know