Conditions in limerick prison

Predalien

The only function of prisons should be to deny convicts their liberty as punishment for offences. This includes denying them luxuries and certain typically pleasing aspects of life. They should however not be treated as if they are sub human and left in unsafe and unsanitary conditions.

Prison should not just attempt to rehabilitate, there should also be an attempt to reform their character. Otherwise you're just tossing people back out into society who'll continue to offend, causing us all harm.

wendell borton

i think spike island should be re-opened, escape from NY style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMH3yKfj6Cg

carfiosaoorl

As much as I would like prisoners to be treated humanely they wouldn't be on the top of my list of priorities. Conditions in prisons is falling? Conditions everywhere are falling. The country is practically collapsing obviously prisons are going to feel the effects as well. I am more worried that my local hospital is disgustingly filthy and that I am going around in circles trying to get disability for my disabled child who apparently isnt disabled enough even though any junkie can get it :rolleyes: Do I sound bitter?

Guy:Incognito

Einhard wrote: »

Alternatively: If you treat people like animals, don't be surprised if they act like animals.

Yeah cos they are in there in the first place for being fine upstanding members of society.

bbam wrote: »

We shouldn't worry so much about what life on the inside is like but rather that people don't get sent down for soft crimes like TV license etc..

Who's in jail for not paying their tv licence? I doubt theres ever been even 1. People go to jail for takign the piss and being in contempt of court and refusing to pay fines laid down for things like not paying the licence.

cursai

The criminals in these prisons are laughing at us. Looking out for their dignity? they take it off us on the outside and we give it to them on the inside.
Separate categories of prisons already exist. put the fine related crimes and petty stuff in the more open prisons and dump the real scum in Carandiru type holes.
Black bleak damp cells.

Arguing that prisons makes them animals is muck. These people were animals going in. People who say or think different have no real experience dealing with the trail of destruction they leave.
Rehabilitation........keep your money for the poor hoors with disabilities stuck in a primary teaching class of forty. Where's the sympathy and human rights outcry for these poor souls.
Madness.

Nodin

cursai wrote: »

The criminals in these prisons are laughing at us. Looking out for their dignity? they take it off us on the outside and we give it to them on the inside..

What do we give to them on the inside?

cursai wrote: »

...........dump the real scum in Carandiru type holes.
Black bleak damp cells.

Arguing that prisons makes them animals is muck. These people were animals going in. People who say or think different have no real experience dealing with the trail of destruction they leave.
Rehabilitation........keep your money for the poor hoors with disabilities stuck in a primary teaching class of forty. Where's the sympathy and human rights outcry for these poor souls.
Madness.

What basis in law is there for putting people in dire conditions?

constantg

Nodin wrote: »

What basis in law is there for putting people in dire conditions?

What basis is there in law for remission without showing any remorse whatsoever?

cursai

Nodin wrote: »

What do we give to them on the inside?




What basis in law is there for putting people in dire conditions?

?? We support them having their dignity on prison after they take it from other people.
Basis in law? the law is there to protect innocent people and prosecute people who commit crime and not to make sure their arses are wiped as well. the fact is that prison conditions should not be any sort of priority. With so many other deserving issues unresolved.

Nodin

constantg wrote: »

What basis is there in law for remission without showing any remorse whatsoever?

.....the law we have at the moment. Remission is automatic, based on good behaviour inside.

Nodin

cursai wrote: »

?? We support them having their dignity on prison after they take it from other people..

Doesn't look like there's too much dignity inside, going by that report.

cursai wrote: »

Basis in law? the law is there to protect innocent people and prosecute people who commit crime and not to make sure their arses are wiped as well. the fact is that prison conditions should not be any sort of priority. With so many other deserving issues unresolved.

Actually, the law serves a number of functions in regards to duties, obligations and rights as well. The fact of the matter is that there is no basis for assigning people to unsanitary or unhealthy conditions in law. Punishment is - generally speaking - administered by loss of liberty or fines.

flanders1979

I lived in worse squalor as a student, put them in chain gangs.

cursai

Nodin wrote: »

.....the law we have at the moment. Remission is automatic, based on good behaviour inside.

Yes and its a joke just like people supporting the enhancement of prison conditions. How is it lawful that people given two years for burglaries get out after eight months on temp release and goes at it again. Then gets High court bail!!!
From my experience the only thing stopping or even reducing criminals inclination to commit crime is the fear of going to prison and all the harsh conditions it should bring with it

Nodin

cursai wrote: »

Yes and its a joke just like people supporting the enhancement of prison conditions. How is it lawful that people given two years for burglaries get out after eight months on temp release and goes at it again. Then gets High court bail!!!
From my experience the only thing stopping or even reducing criminals inclination to commit crime is the fear of going to prison and all the harsh conditions it should bring with it

....in the course of human history we've had harsher punishments, longer sentences, and various kinds of brutal conditions. They haven't worked. While I fully accept there may be some that are incorrigible, I think it possible to 'save' far more than is currently the case. And its not a "soft" option.

cursai

Nodin wrote: »

Doesn't look like there's too much dignity inside, going by that report.



Actually, the law serves a number of functions in regards to duties, obligations and rights as well. The fact of the matter is that there is no basis for assigning people to unsanitary or unhealthy conditions in law. Punishment is - generally speaking - administered by loss of liberty or fines.

Yes its called prison and it should be what it implies and people associate it with.
The point is scrotes laugh when they are sent to prison as they know there in for an easy ride. Taking the civil libitarian attitude is noble and beautiful but try spouting the same middle class luxuries when (insert scrote) comes knocking on your front door.

Nodin

cursai wrote: »

Yes its called prison and it should be what it implies and people associate it with.
The point is scrotes laugh when they are sent to prison as they know there in for an easy ride. .

.........but it's not an "easy ride", as has been established.

cursai wrote: »

Taking the civil libitarian attitude is noble and beautiful but try spouting the same middle class luxuries when (insert scrote) comes knocking on your front door.

It's actually about looking for a solution that works, rather than succumbing to emotionally satisfying 'revenge' measures than leave us at square one.

Presuming your tips on the gee-gees comes from the same crystal ball you get your "class" information on, you'll pardon me if I don't PM you for winners.

cursai

Nodin wrote: »

....in the course of human history we've had harsher punishments, longer sentences, and various kinds of brutal conditions. They haven't worked. While I fully accept there may be some that are incorrigible, I think it possible to 'save' far more than is currently the case. And its not a "soft" option.

There is no saving these people. The decent ones will save themselves. if it makes people feel any better keep the walls painted regularly and a few scrubs on the grounds. After that lock the doors. And keep them locked for the ones who don't behave like the rest of us. Socio economic solutions are a fantasy for the type of people who get more benefit and sense of power from crime than from lawfulness.

Nodin

cursai wrote: »

There is no saving these people. The decent ones will save themselves. if it makes people feel any better keep the walls painted regularly and a few scrubs on the grounds. After that lock the doors. And keep them locked for the ones who don't behave like the rest of us .

...been done. doesn't work. Costs a lot too.

cursai wrote: »

. Socio economic solutions are a fantasy for the type of people who get more benefit and sense of power from crime than from lawfulness.

I've no idea what thats supposed to mean.

cursai

Nodin wrote: »

.........but it's not an "easy ride", as has been established.




It's actually about looking for a solution that works, rather than succumbing to emotionally satisfying 'revenge' measures than leave us at square one.

Presuming your tips on the gee-gees comes from the same crystal ball you get your "class" information on, you'll pardon me if I don't PM you for winners.

I get no satisfaction from seeing people in prison and have no need for revenge. That's being emotional. The law is simple and criminals know the consequences. Its their choice to risk. The repercussions have to be harsh.
Somedays I think its be a great thing if normal citizens were all tag along in a patrol car and see and speak to some of these lost vulnerable souls in their undertakings.
Oh but Johnny? WHY did you stab your brother? Lets talk about it. A whole lot of healing going on.

cursai

Nodin wrote: »

...been done. doesn't work. Costs a lot too.



I've no idea what thats supposed to mean.

Your being silly now.

Chuck Stone

charlemont wrote: »

I think the overcrowding is having a serious effect on maintaining discipline and cleanliness inside and there is really no hope of any rehabilitation if the prison staff and services are constantly under pressure.

Isn't it ironic that the only person who has had the honesty to admit to being incarcerated in that prison highlights that harsh prison conditions are also unhealthy for prison staff?

(Is that irony?)

Nodin

cursai wrote: »

I get no satisfaction from seeing people in prison and have no need for revenge. That's being emotional. The law is simple and criminals know the consequences. Its their choice to risk. The repercussions have to be harsh..

.....none of which includes unhealthy conditions, overcrowding etc and so on.

cursai wrote: »

Somedays I think its be a great thing if normal citizens were all tag along in a patrol car and see and speak to some of these lost vulnerable souls in their undertakings.
Oh but Johnny? WHY did you stab your brother? Lets talk about it. A whole lot of healing going on.

I might point out that, having no idea of individuals experiences one way or another, it's usually best to avoid making remarks on same.

cursai

Nodin wrote: »

.....none of which includes unhealthy conditions, overcrowding etc and so on.



I might point out that, having no idea of individuals experiences one way or another, it's usually best to avoid making remarks on same.

I can guarantee going by your posts that the poster who wrote them has had no real lasting negative experiences at the hands of these types. either that or a social worker/counsellor or someone on the safe side of a criminal after the crime.

Nodin

cursai wrote: »

I can guarantee going by your posts that the poster who write them has had no real lasting negative experiences at the hands of these types. either that or social worker/counsellor.

No, you can't. Hence my earlier remark.

cursai

Nodin wrote: »

No, you can't. Hence my earlier remark.

hmm. I'd even give a lifetimes guarantee.

Liam Byrne

Every citizen should be given a list of mandatory fines and sentences for major crimes when they turn teen.

Then there would be no excuse for treating them softly - they'd know the risk beforehand and if they "agreed" with it by committing the crime, they couldn't object or whinge.

It works for drink driving and speeding fines, so why not for the other crimes?

cursai

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Every citizen should be given a list of mandatory fines and sentences for major crimes when they turn teen.

Then there would be no excuse for treating them softly - they'd know the risk beforehand and if they "agreed" with it by committing the crime, they couldn't object or whinge.

It works for drink driving and speeding fines, so why not for the other crimes?

Might not be the worst idea. Would serve as a reminder. But legally ignorance is already no defence in this country.

Nodin

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Every citizen should be given a list of mandatory fines and sentences for major crimes when they turn teen.

Then there would be no excuse for treating them softly - they'd know the risk beforehand and if they "agreed" with it by committing the crime, they couldn't object or whinge.

Funny, I don't recall anyone anywhere in the thread objecting to the idea of custodial sentences.

shampon

Einhard wrote: »

Alternatively: If you treat people like animals, don't be surprised if they act like animals.

My heart bleeds for the thieving scum...you've never met any criminals then have you?

celtictiger32

conditions in limerick prison

loads to do theres bars on every corner

Brian201888

Do a google search on Swedish prison conditions, spend 5 minutes gobsmacked at how stupid these fools are for giving criminals so much.

Now do a search on reoffender rates in Sweden and see why it makes sense to rehabilitate rather than punish.

Stiffler2

F**K em, they're scum anyway and they've chosen the scum lifestyle so they deserve to live in scum I say.

AeoNGriM

Einhard wrote: »

Call me crazy, but I believe that most people have the capacity to change, and prisons should be both a place that punishes people for their crimes, and seeks to rehabilitate them if possible. Rehabilitation, which benefits society in the long run, can't occur if we treat people like animals. Your way would see a prisoner released after ten years with no change in his outlook; my way wouldat least allow the possibility of his having changed his ways. But no, better to wallow in tabloid outrage and the cheap satisfaction that that brings, than actually think about the situation and address it.

Cushty prison = don't care if I get sent back

Sh!thole prison = no fcuking way am I going back there

You're crazy.

Attabear

AeoNGriM wrote: »

Cushty prison = don't care if I get sent back

Sh!thole prison = no fcuking way am I going back there

You're crazy.

But if that was the case, wouldn't the countries with the worst prisons have the lowest crime rates?

I don't think it works like that.

44leto

I really don't have any sympathy for them, I have a lot more sympathy for their victims. WE ALL could have been criminals but we chose not to be.

AeoNGriM

Attabear wrote: »

But if that was the case, wouldn't the countries with the worst prisons have the lowest crime rates?

I don't think it works like that.

The countries with the worst prisons are also home to some of the poorest people in the world. For a lot of them crime isn't a lifestyle choice, it's the only way they can feed their families or the only paying work they can get.

Brian201888

AeoNGriM wrote: »

Cushty prison = don't care if I get sent back

Sh!thole prison = no fcuking way am I going back there

You're crazy.

Any stats to back that up?

Attabear

AeoNGriM wrote: »

The countries with the worst prisons are also home to some of the poorest people in the world. For a lot of them crime isn't a lifestyle choice, it's the only way they can feed their families or the only paying work they can get.

America' s prisons are pretty bad (at least from what I've seen on television).

Not a particularly poor country.

NinjaK

right job for them, they should be breaking rocks, they still have it too good.

hooradiation

AeoNGriM wrote: »

The countries with the worst prisons are also home to some of the poorest people in the world. For a lot of them crime isn't a lifestyle choice, it's the only way they can feed their families or the only paying work they can get.

So, how does this square with your initial idea that the only deciding factor in people committing crimes was how "Cushty" the prisons are?

suicide_circus

Dudess wrote: »

Not once have you backed up your position, instead you've just thrown out digs - fail of a debater.

Grown adults who use the word 'fail' in this manner instantly invalidate any point they are trying to make.

D1stant

There should be a tiered prison system, as there are very different types of inmates

For 1st offenders, good conditions, rehab, skills training etc.... ranging to nth offenders, sh1t conditions, solitary, work detail, no tv, no rehab, no visits

For repeat offenders prison should be very unpleasant

Brian201888

D1stant wrote: »

There should be a tiered prison system, as there are very different types of inmates

For 1st offenders, good conditions, rehab, skills training etc.... ranging to nth offenders, sh1t conditions, solitary, work detail, no tv, no rehab, no visits

For repeat offenders prison should be very unpleasant

Short of those recieving a complete life sentence to never see the world again that'll just cause those repeat offenders to come out even worse.

hooradiation

Eoghan_2 wrote: »

Short of those recieving a complete life sentence to never see the world again that'll just cause those repeat offenders to come out even worse.

Yes, but D1stant will feel better about himself, and really, that's what this is about. People wanting the state to act out their pathetic vengeance fantasies for them.

I now await being accused of caring more about criminals then their victims or some other puerile nonsense.

AeoNGriM

Eoghan_2 wrote: »

Any stats to back that up?

Nope, it's just an opinion based on how I think the average person would respond to the situation.

Attabear wrote: »

America' s prisons are pretty bad (at least from what I've seen on television).

Not a particularly poor country.

America's prisons are pretty rough, but that's because of the inmates and the gangs more than the living conditions.

Try Brazil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhJs5x-S4s

I've seen worse prisons in similar places. A large metal cage, segregated into 3 'floors' with prisoners literally having to crawl to get to their allocated spot. No toilets, prisoners have to **** into plastic bags, and then tie them onto the bars of the cage.

Stick any Irish criminal in one of these places and you'ld make a strong case for rehabilitation, I'd think.

hooradiation wrote: »

So, how does this square with your initial idea that the only deciding factor in people committing crimes was how "Cushty" the prisons are?

Could you please point out where I said that was the only deciding factor?

Brian201888

AeoNGriM wrote: »

Nope, it's just an opinion based on how I think the average person would respond to the situation.



America's prisons are pretty rough, but that's because of the inmates and the gangs more than the living conditions.

Try Brazil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhJs5x-S4s

I've seen worse prisons in similar places. A large metal cage, segregated into 3 'floors' with prisoners literally having to crawl to get to their allocated spot. No toilets, prisoners have to **** into plastic bags, and then tie them onto the bars of the cage.

Stick any Irish criminal in one of these places and you'ld make a strong case for rehabilitation, I'd think.



Could you please point out where I said that was the only deciding factor?

No you'll have people coming out mentally ****ed with nothing to offer society but more crime.

D1stant

hooradiation wrote: »

Yes, but D1stant will feel better about himself, and really, that's what this is about. People wanting the state to act out their pathetic vengeance fantasies for them.

I now await being accused of caring more about criminals then their victims or some other puerile nonsense.

I accuse you of jumping to conclusions. I just dont want my taxes wasted on the type of people that would kill me for fun

There are a lot of hardened scumbags with 10s of convictions in Irish prisons. They laugh at attitudes like yours. If you think you can reform these people with love and opportunity, you will be disapoint

AeoNGriM

Eoghan_2 wrote: »

No you'll have people coming out mentally ****ed with nothing to offer society but more crime.

I think the thoughts of being sent to one of these places would deter the average criminal. I'm no expert but you'ld have to be mentally deficient to risk being sent there!

Brian201888

Working now so can't google too many stats on it. But on a quick example lets compare America with tough prisons to the Norweigans with trying to fix a problem.

- Norway’s Incarceration Rate Is A Fraction Of That Of The United States: 71 out of every 100,000 Norwegian citizens is incarcerated. In the United States, 743 out of every 100,000 citizens was incarcerated in 2009. The U.S. has the world’s highest incarceration rate.
- Norway’s Prisoner Recidivism Rate Is Much Lower Than The United States’: The recidivism rate for prisoners in Norway is around 20 percent. Meanwhile, it’s estimated that 67 percent of America’s prisoners are re-arrested and 52 percent are re-incarcerated.

I mean that'd say logically that Norway only locks up the worst of the worst % wise and manages to largely stop them reoffending whereas in America its an attitude of lock them up in a ****hole and create a bigger problem.

Guill

Guill wrote: »

This is where i struggle, if they are so depressing etc., why would someone consider becoming a life long criminal? Only to increase the chance of ending back in there?...............

.... many life long criminals spend little enough time inside and the financial benefits when they are outside make it attractive. Folks involved in petty crime aren't really thinking of the repercussions in many cases too. Also to spend time inside you have to be caught, prosecuted and sentenced, risk and reward comes into it.

Also if you are involved in crime many of your associates are too so it's not such a scary proposition compared to the normal Joe Soap who would be terrified at the thought of it.

People do adapt to their surroundings too, humans are very good at that.

Attabear

AeoNGriM wrote: »

I think the thoughts of being sent to one of these places would deter the average criminal. I'm no expert but you'ld have to be mentally deficient to risk being sent there!

Not to sound like a broken record, but does the state of Brazilian prisons have any impact on crime rates? If it doesn't there, why should it here?