Would you wear clothing with the British Flag on it?

Kotek Besar

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

I have dual nationality as I was born in Britain.
I have an Irish passport not a British one. I choose not to avail of the option of a British passport.

Why don't you renounce your British citizenship then if you hate Britain so much?

LordSutch

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

I think for a wife to buy her Irish husband an item of clothing with the Union Jack flag on it is a disgrace. I regard it as a personal insult.

I take it then that you will not be attending any of the Diamond Jubilee celebrations in June :rolleyes:

For somebody actually "born in Britain" you are a very, very & unthankful bitter pill.

gurramok

LordSutch wrote: »

For somebody actually "born in Britain" you are a very, very & unthankful bitter pill.

Surprised that you are surprised. Some of my English reared cousins do have a hatred for anything English whereby they would poison your British made chicken Others do not give a toss, thats just a feeling among some of the Irish 2nd generation.

I on the otherhand even born there would not poison you with any chicken, i know you're human after all :P

Kotek Besar

bwatson wrote: »

Secondly, so you don't have dual nationality? You don't have a British passport and evidently don't feel even the slightest attachment to the nation. Why did you lie?

Any person born in the UK to at least one Irish citizen parent, who was ordinarily resident in the UK at the time, is a British citizen otherwise than by descent.

Whether or not a British passport is held by the person doesn't affect this.

gurramok

Chuck Stone wrote: »

IRA bombing campaign.

Bombs don't have a nationality.

You sure? It was a Czech bombing campaign, they made the Semtex

Johnny Foreigner

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Why don't you renounce your British citizenship then if you hate Britain so much?

I was born in Britain. I have both British and Irish citizenship.
It is not something that renouncing will change. I was born in Britain and cannot change that I am a British citizen. I did not have a say in where I was born, but I will make sure my children are born in Ireland.

Allyall

Washout wrote: »

SO my wife is Indian...and was over there on a trip home.

she brought me back a jumper with a little patch of the British flag about 2cm by 1cm.

I said to her, I cant wear that with the flag on it ill get a different patch to cover it. (you cant just simply remove it).

The argument that ensued was unreal.

Just wondering if there is Irish ppl out there who would wear it and am I just being totally pedantic.

No way.. i grew up thinking it was an ugly looking yolk anyway.. :pac:..
It's more used as a commercial sales tool, like the American flag, as opposed to what it is supposed to symbolise, which does become overkill.

I should point out, that, not only did i think it was ugly, Growing up, i wouldn't have made it to the end of my road, without Doctor Marten being introduced to my shins by a hundred different people.

bwatson

gurramok wrote: »

Surprised that you are surprised. Some of my English reared cousins do have a hatred for anything English whereby they would poison your British made chicken Others do not give a toss, thats just a feeling among some of the Irish 2nd generation.

I on the otherhand even born there would not poison you with any chicken, i know you're human after all :P

Out of interest, have they moved to Ireland or do they continue to live in England?

I cannot understand how anybody who professes to harbour such hatred towards the country they were born in or live in can possibly stand to remain there unless the situation allows for absolutely no possibility of leaving. Otherwise, I can't help but thinking it is but a stunt to attract as much attention as is possible to themselves.

What is it about England they hated so much? The schools that taught them? The hospitals which treated them? The police who endeavoured to keep them safe? It just seems mad to me.

Kotek Besar

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

I was born in Britain. I have both British and Irish citizenship.
It is not something that renouncing will change. I was born in Britain and cannot change that I am a British citizen. I did not have a say in where I was born, but I will make sure my children are born in Ireland.

Renouncing your British citizenship absolutely will change it - you won't be a British citizen any more.

Johnny Foreigner

LordSutch wrote: »

I take it then that you will not be attending any of the Diamond Jubilee celebrations in June :rolleyes:

For somebody actually "born in Britain" you are a very, very & unthankful bitter pill.

I honestly do not know what the Diamond Jubilee is.
So I will not be celebrating it.

Kotek Besar

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

..but I will make sure my children are born in Ireland.

..by the way, they'll still be British.

bwatson

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

I was born in Britain. I have both British and Irish citizenship.
It is not something that renouncing will change. I was born in Britain and cannot change that I am a British citizen. I did not have a say in where I was born, but I will make sure my children are born in Ireland.

I know a white, middle class English chap who was born in South Africa because his father's line of employment had taken the family there before he was born. He's not South African, doesn't have a passport, feels no real connection to the nation and therefore isn't a South African citizen. He potentially could become one should he desire to.

You display none of the tendencies of being a British citizen and don't seem overly desperate to become one. Why do you continue to describe yourself as one? Being born somewhere, even raised there, doesn't automatically brand you a citizen for life anywhere in this world.

Johnny Foreigner

bwatson wrote: »

Firstly, I have reported your post for picking up on a spelling error. Secondly, so you don't have dual nationality? You don't have a British passport and evidently don't feel even the slightest attachment to the nation. Why did you lie?

Thirdly, I find it rather amusing that you would be so unapologetically intolerant of Britain and the Union Flag due to the history of the relationship between the countries, yet you express anger at people on British buses being hostile towards the Irish in the middle of an Irish bombing campaign. Hilarious. Do you not see any sort of comparison there?

Lastly, I'm just thankful your Irish girlfriend respects your views. Otherwise you may chuck her out, or worse...

I can spell. I was making you better informed. Just like I am with my posts.
I was born in Britain, therefore I have dual nationality whether I hold a passport or not. One does not need to hold a passport in order to have dual nationality. I am not a liar. I will always have dual nationality, from birth to death.
Many Irish in London (during the IRA bombing campaign) were not supportive of the IRA. They were actually against the IRA bombing. However they were all classed as being pro IRA (by the English) due to them being Irish. I express anger that the Irish were abused by the English, when in fact they were not supportive of; or responsible for the IRA bombings.
My Irish girlfriend knows better than to buy an Irish man an item of clothing with the Union Jack flag on it. It is an act of ignorance doing so.

Yahew

bwatson wrote: »

I know a white, middle class English chap who was born in South Africa because his father's line of employment had taken the family there before he was born. He's not South African, doesn't have a passport, feels no real connection to the nation and therefore isn't a South African citizen. He potentially could become one should he desire to.

You display none of the tendencies of being a British citizen and don't seem overly desperate to become one. Why do you continue to describe yourself as one? Being born somewhere, even raised there, doesn't automatically brand you a citizen for life anywhere in this world.

You should take that advice yourself and learn the bodhran. We're waiting.

AudreyHepburn

Washout wrote: »

SO my wife is Indian...and was over there on a trip home.

she brought me back a jumper with a little patch of the British flag about 2cm by 1cm.

I said to her, I cant wear that with the flag on it ill get a different patch to cover it. (you cant just simply remove it).

The argument that ensued was unreal.

Just wondering if there is Irish ppl out there who would wear it and am I just being totally pedantic.

Your poor wife. She buys you a present and you tear a strip off her.

Total over reaction tbh. If you don't want to wear the flag fine, but there is no need to be an ass about it.

Me personally a little logo wouldn't bother me. I probably wouldn't an item of clothing whose entire pattern was the flag not because I hate Britian or am stuck in the past but simply because I'm not British.

OP the occupation and the troubles are long over. It's time to let it lie.

Kotek Besar

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

I will always have dual nationality, from birth to death.

Because you choose not to renounce the British nationality that you hate.

Johnny Foreigner

bwatson wrote: »

I know a white, middle class English chap who was born in South Africa because his father's line of employment had taken the family there before he was born. He's not South African, doesn't have a passport, feels no real connection to the nation and therefore isn't a South African citizen. He potentially could become one should he desire to.

You display none of the tendencies of being a British citizen and don't seem overly desperate to become one. Why do you continue to describe yourself as one? Being born somewhere, even raised there, doesn't automatically brand you a citizen for life anywhere in this world.

South Africa and the UK have different laws regarding citizenship.
When a child is born in the UK it becomes a UK citizen by birth.
Citizenship can be applied for from the UK child's parents country of origin.
For example; Cait O'Riordan (bass player of The Pogues) was born in Nigeria.
She is eligible to claim Nigerian citizenship.
However she chooses to claim Irish citizenship, and holds an Irish passport (not a Nigerian one).
Just to clarify, you are automatically a citizen of the country in which you are born (whether you choose to take it or not). However you may also claim the citizenship of your parents (if you choose to do so).
Whether you choose to hold both passports or not, you will always have dual nationality from birth to death.

bwatson

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

I can spell. I was making you better informed. Just like I am with my posts.
I was born in Britain, therefore I have dual nationality whether I hold a passport or not. One does not need to hold a passport in order to have dual nationality. I am not a liar. I will always have dual nationality, from birth to death.
Many Irish in London (during the IRA bombing campaign) were not supportive of the IRA. They were actually against the IRA bombing. However they were all classed as being pro IRA (by the English) due to them being Irish. I express anger that the Irish were abused by the English, when in fact they were not supportive of; or responsible for the IRA bombings.
My Irish girlfriend knows better than to buy an Irish man an item of clothing with the Union Jack flag on it. It is an act of ignorance doing so.

Being born in a country doesn't mean that you are destined to be a citizen of said nation for life. You are more than welcome to renounce your British citizenship.

Interesting that you have a massive dislike of "the English" (massive generalization) for their massive generalization when it came to the Irish in London. You really couldn't make it up.

Your girlfriend knows better than to buy you an item of clothing with the union flag on it because you have anger issues. There have been a number of people on here (a minority I shall acknowledge) who have said they would not mind wearing and even do wear items of clothing with a union flag emblem on it.

You are not making me better informed. Your arrogance is hilarious, and your opinions are at times downright disturbing. I worry for your girlfriend. God forbid she buys you a pair of socks which you don't take an instant liking to.

Johnny Foreigner

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Because you choose not to renounce the British nationality that you hate.

I have an Irish passport not a British passport.
I live in Ireland not Britain.
The choice I have made is obvious.
I was born in Britain, I cannot change that fact by renouncing my British nationality. It will not change my birthplace on my Irish passport, so it is a mute point.

gurramok

bwatson wrote: »

Out of interest, have they moved to Ireland or do they continue to live in England?

I cannot understand how anybody who professes to harbour such hatred towards the country they were born in or live in can possibly stand to remain there unless the situation allows for absolutely no possibility of leaving. Otherwise, I can't help but thinking it is but a stunt to attract as much attention as is possible to themselves.

What is it about England they hated so much? The schools that taught them? The hospitals which treated them? The police who endeavoured to keep them safe? It just seems mad to me.

No, all I spoke of still live in England including the adult children. Some intermarried with English. Again, only some hate their upbringing. Others do not and are what you call 'assimilated'.

My family moved back here when I was aged 3 after maybe 5 yrs over there. The other poster is in a different scenario than myself, only similarity is that we both were born in London to Irish parents.

bwatson

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

South Africa and the UK have different laws regarding citizenship.
When a child is born in the UK it becomes a UK citizen by birth.
Citizenship can be applied for from the UK child's parents country of origin.
For example; Cait O'Riordan (bass player of The Pogues) was born in Nigeria.
She is eligible to claim Nigerian citizenship.
However she chooses to claim Irish citizenship, and holds an Irish passport (not a Nigerian one).
Just to clarify, you are automatically a citizen of the country in which you are born (whether you choose to take it or not). However you may also claim the citizenship of your parents (if you choose to do so).
Whether you choose to hold both passports or not, you will always have dual nationality from birth to death.

This is mainly b0llocks to be fair.

You go from talking about nationality to citizenship then back to nationality. You are confused and are attempting to confuse others so as to hide your obvious mistakes.

Your last sentence regarding "always" having dual nationality from birth until death is just plain wrong.

Allyall

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

I have an Irish passport not a British passport.
I live in Ireland not Britain.
The choice I have made is obvious.
I was born in Britain, I cannot change that fact by renouncing my British nationality. It will not change my birthplace on my Irish passport, so it is a mute point.

REALLY, REALLY sorry, but... Moot Point

I'm thinking there's a lot of baited hooks, and you keep biting..

WolfForager

Have absolutely no problem wearing it, as long as it's not a Union Jack stretched across my chest, i like the flags design, just not enough to get killed for wearing it.

Washout

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Washout wrote: »

SO my wife is Indian...and was over there on a trip home.

she brought me back a jumper with a little patch of the British flag about 2cm by 1cm.

I said to her, I cant wear that with the flag on it ill get a different patch to cover it. (you cant just simply remove it).

The argument that ensued was unreal.

Just wondering if there is Irish ppl out there who would wear it and am I just being totally pedantic.

Your poor wife. She buys you a present and you tear a strip off her.

Total over reaction tbh. If you don't want to wear the flag fine, but there is no need to be an ass about it.

Me personally a little logo wouldn't bother me. I probably wouldn't an item of clothing whose entire pattern was the flag not because I hate Britian or am stuck in the past but simply because I'm not British.

OP the occupation and the troubles are long over. It's time to let it lie.

Oh. Unreal from the 1st post to where we are now. I did not bite the head off her. My argument with her was that i didn't want to wear it in public in case it offended people, in which case it could lead to abuse and a beating.

Her argument were that people cannot be that stupid.

I have no hatred towards British or anything British but if wearing something like a flag of any country could cause offence to ppl and thus an overreaction then it's not a risk worth taking.

Is that not fair logic on my part?

I'm sorry I should have mentioned that I personally wouldn't have a problem but the offence it might cause others is the issue

Fratton Fred

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Duel: Fight.
Dual: Two.
I have dual nationality as I was born in Britain.
I have an Irish passport not a British one. I choose not to avail of the option of a British passport.
I think for a wife to buy her Irish husband an item of clothing with the Union Jack flag on it is a disgrace. I regard it as a personal insult. During the IRA's bombing campaign in Britain during the 1980's as a child I witnessed the discrimination and prejudice Irish people experienced in London from the English. On public transport the Irish had to hide their accents for fear of abuse. I feel very strongly that people should be aware of the history of conflict between Britain and Ireland. The Union Jack and tricolour flags are symbolic; not just of nationality; but also of sectarianism. One needs to be sensitive about the ramifications of an Irish man wearing a Union Jack flag.
For the record, I have an Irish girlfriend who respects my views.

that, my friend, is a whole load of horse****.

Sure, there was the odd person who used the bombing campaign as an excuse to spout hatred, but pretty much every Irish person I knew who was in London at the time remarled how well they were treated, considering their fellow countrymen were busy maiming and killing.

George hook mentioned this on his show the other week. He was working in England when Lord Mountbatten was killed and how he experienced the backlash, His guest looked puzzled and said he was in London at the time and saw none. Hookie replied "Exactly".

Kotek Besar

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Just to clarify, you are automatically a citizen of the country in which you are born (whether you choose to take it or not). However you may also claim the citizenship of your parents (if you choose to do so).

That's a massive generalisation and often untrue. It depends completely on the nationality and citizenship laws of the countries in question.

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Whether you choose to hold both passports or not, you will always have dual nationality from birth to death.

Not true, most countries allow it's citizens to renounce their citizenship if they chose to.

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

I have an Irish passport not a British passport.
I live in Ireland not Britain.
The choice I have made is obvious.
I was born in Britain, I cannot change that fact by renouncing my British nationality. It will not change my birthplace on my Irish passport, so it is a mute point.

No you can't change where you were born but you keep saying that you'll have dual nationality / be a British citizen 'til you die, but that's only true if you chose it to be so.

AudreyHepburn

Washout wrote: »

Oh. Unreal from the 1st post to where we are now. I did not bite the head off her. My argument with her was that i didn't want to wear it in public in case it offended people, in which case it could lead to abuse and a beating.

Her argument were that people cannot be that stupid.

I have no hatred towards British or anything British but if wearing something like a flag of any country could cause offence to ppl and thus an overreaction then it's not a risk worth taking.

Is that not fair logic on my part?

I'm sorry I should have mentioned that I personally wouldn't have a problem but the offence it might cause others is the issue

Yes you probably should have. But to be honest I agree with your wife. I'm little offended that that is how you the Irish people would react to you.

A certain minority might but you can't generalise make assumptions.

There really was no need to have an 'unreal' argument over a little logo.

Fratton Fred

Chuck Stone wrote: »

IRA bombing campaign.

Bombs don't have a nationality.

No, but the people planting them do.

The campaign was carried out by the IRISH Republican Army. The clue is in the name, as they say.

Yahew

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Sure, there was the odd person who used the bombing campaign as an excuse to spout hatred, but pretty much every Irish person I knew who was in London at the time remarled how well they were treated, considering their fellow countrymen were busy maiming and killing.
.

Except most of the killings were by the fellow country men of the British. This goes back to my claim, earlier, that the Northern Irish were not seen as British. bwatson was appalled, but - as I pointed out - most terrorism was committed by people born in the UK but is seen as Irish.

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

Well done, a bit of humour from you for once

Quick, back to the barricades . . .

You haven't answered the question. Would you wear Republican symbols?

circos

You gotta love an never ending argument...

Micky Dolenz

Allyall wrote: »

REALLY, REALLY sorry, but... Moot Point

I'm thinking there's a lot of baited hooks, and you keep biting..

Mod

Really sorry, that's a yellow. Next one is a ban.

Spelling police be warned.

Fratton Fred

Yahew wrote: »

Except most of the killings were by the fellow country men of the British. This goes back to my claim, earlier, that the Northern Irish were not seen as British. bwatson was appalled, but - as I pointed out - most terrorism was committed by people born in the UK but is seen as Irish.

Just as the 7/7 bombing was carried out by British citizens, but for some reason "The Muslims" got the blame.

Bomb a train station in someone's name and those people are (rightly or wrongly) likely to get the blame for it.

Allyall

Never even knew there was a spelling Police/warning. Nor did i do it, to annoy/irritate, i was pointing out moot/mute are two different things entirely, and that was it.
Anyway, done now.

Dudess

I wouldn't care if an item of clothing had a small union jack on it - it has a place in some great pop culture, and we haven't been oppressed by the British empire for a fair few decades now.
Oh yeah and Irish people consume masses and masses of British culture anyway.

Yahew

Anyway, the thread got off topic, and I responded in kind. As a proud Irishman who thinks the Union Jack is understandably distrusted in Ireland, and is sympathetic to the argument of people who wouldn't wear a large union jack on their selves, I would nevertheless say to the OP and people who agree, this.

Get over yourselves. Its a tiny little symbol.

the_syco

Ask her would she wear a t-shirt with a Pakistan flag on it?

gurramok

Dudess wrote: »

I wouldn't care if an item of clothing had a small union jack on it - it has a place in some great pop culture, and we haven't been oppressed by the British empire for a fair few decades now.
Oh yeah and Irish people consume masses and masses of British culture anyway.

Oppressed, Irish people up north did before 1998(GFA). Yes things have moved on but it is important to remember the source of any friction in the modern era and that is NI rather than what happened decades ago in 1920. And let the modern peace continue for generations, its beneficial to both communities in NI.

ejmaztec

It would have been a good thread had the internet been around when Richard Harris played Cromwell. The monitors would have spouted blood sweat and tears.:eek:

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

You haven't answered the question. Would you wear Republican symbols?

If you're talking about those mentioned in post#409, then a big fat NO would be the answer.

Glassheart

summerskin wrote: »

I can now see why most in the north want to be british. there isn't the resentment and clinging on to bygone history that you have down here.

Actually,these things are the very cornerstone of Unionism.The culture of victimhood doesn't stop at the border.

Dyr

Noel Deafening Valedictorian wrote: »

Most popular names 2010 in ireland jack and sophie couldnt get more british imo and yet most of you wouldnt wear the flag?
Weird!

As often quoted on the subject nationalism last refuge of a scoundrel

be proud of your country by all means but not if it leads to blind hatred of other races

If people were hating on the biafrans then it would be blind hatred :pac: Dem brits have form.

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

If you're talking about those mentioned in post#409, then a big fat NO would be the answer.

...then why are your knickers in a knot over the refusal of others to be associated with symbols they reject?

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

You haven't answered the question. Would you wear Republican symbols?

I once had a balaclava as a kid, does that count?

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

...then why are your knickers in a knot over the refusal of others to be associated with symbols they reject?

The Union Flag is the flag of the United Kingdom, and as such it appears on items/produce made and/or produced in the UK. Food packaging, Car bodies, Van's & Lorries, Engines, Buses, Motorcycle frames, Bicycles, Clothing, Coats, Jackets, Knickers, Trainers, Bags, Shoes & Hats, you get the picture . . . It appears on many things that we in Ireland buy in the shops, and yet there are those here on this forum who will make an issue out of the fact that a UK flag label/sticker may be on a given product !!!

Oh look, there's a British flag/label on my boxers, 'Help', cut it off now, no feck it, don't buy it "WHY"? because its got a British Flag on the label

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

...then why are your knickers in a knot over the refusal of others to be associated with symbols they reject?

The Union Flag is the flag of the United Kingdom, and as such it appears on items/produce made, and/or produced in the UK. Food packaging, Car bodies, Van's & Lorries, Engines, Buses, Motorcycle frames, Bicycles, Clothing, Coats, Jackets, Knickers, Trainers, Bags, Shoes & Hats, you get the picture . . . It appears on many things that we in Ireland buy in the shops, and yet there are those here on this forum who will make an issue out of the fact that a UK flag label/sticker may be on a given product !!!

Oh look, there's a British flag/label on my boxers, 'Help', cut it off now, no feck it, don't buy it "WHY"? because its got a British Flag on the label

starbelgrade

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I once had a balaclava as a kid, does that count?

Did you used to be ginger?

gurramok

LordSutch wrote: »

Oh look, there's a British flag/label on my boxers, 'Help', cut it off now, no feck it, don't buy it "WHY"? because its got a British Flag on the label

Ah now, you're getting carried away here. We can't eat boxers but we can eat chickens so why would we buy union jack boxers?

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

The Union Flag is the flag of the United Kingdom, and as such it appears on items/produce made and/or produced in the UK. Food packaging, Car bodies, Van's & Lorries, Engines, Buses, Motorcycle frames, Bicycles, Clothing, Coats, Jackets, Knickers, Trainers, Bags, Shoes & Hats, you get the picture . . . It appears on many things that we in Ireland buy in the shops, and yet there are those here on this forum who will make an issue out of the fact that a UK flag label/sticker may be on a given product !!!

Oh look, there's a British flag/label on my boxers, 'Help', cut it off now, no feck it, don't buy it "WHY"? because its got a British Flag on the label

...yes, because they don't want to be associated with that symbol. I've nothing against Germans or Germany, but I wouldn't wear a swastika, the old Kaiser Wilhelm era emblems etc. There are some emblems I wouldn't wear because they are unfortunately associated with the far right.

Nor would I expect you to be in a bobby sands t-shirt, so, other than rejecting others rights to reject a symbol, I don't see what your problem is....

LordSutch

gurramok wrote: »

Ah now, you're getting carried away here. We can't eat boxers but we can eat chickens so why would we buy union jack boxers?

Well now, you could eat chickens wearing Union Jack boxers

Goodby & Goodnight.