Would you wear clothing with the British Flag on it?

gurramok

LordSutch wrote: »

So if you are asking me "Would you wear clothing with the British Flag on it"?

Then Yes, and I do, and why not?

Oh my, why don't you tell the ones who don't know you why? Hint, it has a capital U in the word.

Morlar

LordSutch wrote: »

This could be a long night Morlar.

What is your question? or are you asking on behalf of Galwayguy35?

It's straightforward;

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

... Why would any Irish person wear a union jack.

Don't worry if you are unable to provide an answer. I am sure no one will notice.

Morlar

starbelgrade wrote: »

While I agree that all those are admirable things & ones we should strive for, I don't think you need to be proud of your country to do any of them. What's needed for that is a sense of responsibilty & the will to act on it.

I'm not sure how pride comes into it.

I think a basic sense of pride instills certain values (some of which are referenced in the post you responded to) in the same way that a sense of inferiority or lack of pride does not instill those same values and is possibly incompatible with some of them.

LordSutch

Morlar wrote: »

It's straightforward; Don't worry if you are unable to provide an answer. I am sure no one will notice.

I presume this is what you want an answer to > "Why would any Irish person wear a union jack" and I have already said that if an item of clothing (Reebok Trainers) for example has a little Union flag on them, then why not wear them??? I have also mentioned countless clothing items with small British flag/labels on them, and I say again 'Why not wear them'?

Hope this answers your question Morlar, even though my post was aimed at Galwayguy35.

Morlar

LordSutch wrote: »

I presume this is what you want an answer to > "Why would any Irish person wear a union jack" and I have already said that if an item of clothing (Reebok Trainers) for example has a little Union flag on them, then why not wear them??? I have also mentioned countless clothing items with small British flag/labels on them, and I say again 'Why not wear them'?

Hope this answers your question Morlar, even though my post was aimed at Galwayguy35.

You have re-worded your 'Why not' response. Which continues to not answer the question you were asked. Not to worry, I am sure no one has noticed that.

SafeSurfer

starbelgrade wrote: »

While I agree that all those are admirable things & ones we should strive for, I don't think you need to be proud of your country to do any of them. What's needed for that is a sense of responsibilty & the will to act on it.

I'm not sure how pride comes into it.

I couldn't agree more. I think there is a high correlation between overt "pride" in one's country, which is merely a coincidence of birth and ignorant behaviour.

For example the people on Paddy's night, literally wrapped in the tricolour taking a piss on the street or English soccer hooligans emblazoned in the St. George's cross throwing rocks at the locals.

LordSutch

Morlar wrote: »

You have re-worded your 'Why not' response. Which continues to not answer the question you were asked. Not to worry, I am sure no one has noticed that.

O for F**k sake I honestly have no idea what you are on about Morlar, Why, Why not would? 'Why not', 'Why yes', Why no? what if you stopped messing about with word play and just went away?

You get my drift, and you know exactly where I stand.

Morlar

LordSutch wrote: »

O for F**k sake I honestly have no idea what you are on about Morlar, Why, 'Why not', 'Why yes', Why no, What if you stopped messing about with word play ?

You get my drift, and you know exactly where I stand.

I am not sure how to explain this in a way that is more clear.
Try this.

Here is a window. Jump out of it.

'Why ?'

'Why not ! Ok, Jump'

'No, seriously you need to give reasons why I should jump out that window, Mr.'

'Why not !'

'Why ? '
'Why not! 1,2,3 Jump'

see how that works ? You haven't given an answer to the question you were asked.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

... Why would any Irish person wear a union jack.

Saying 'Why not' is not an answer. That doesn't count as a reason. Feel free to ignore this I was just curious as to what sorts of reasons you might come up with for why an Irish person would wear a union jack.

billybudd

starbelgrade wrote: »

While I agree that all those are admirable things & ones we should strive for, I don't think you need to be proud of your country to do any of them. What's needed for that is a sense of responsibilty & the will to act on it.

I'm not sure how pride comes into it.

You may not be able to decide where you are born, but you can take pride in what nature bestowed upon the land that you were born on to, it is easy to feel pride in this land when you see some of the rough rustic beauty that is to be found in the four corners of Ireland, it is easy to find pride in people who have been born here who had the will and courage to stand up against tyranny and wrongfulness, it is easy to be proud that this land was a muse for some of the most talented writers in history, as a small Island we have produced a lot of things that have proven valuable to the world.

xclw

to be honest i never really thought about it in this kind of way before. i just more took tops with the flags on them as a fashion style and i would wear one cos i think them tshirts look nice. but at the same time i wouldn't wear an english jersey if i was paid to.

LordSutch

Number one:
How did you get so imbedded in my reply to Galwayguy35 ? You just seem to have taken it upon yourself to take his place for some reason.

Morlar wrote: »

I am not sure how to explain this in a way that is more clear.
Try this.

Here is a window. Jump out of it.

'Why ?'

'Why not ! Ok, Jump'

'No, seriously you need to give reasons why I should jump out that window, Mr.'

'Why not !'

'Why ? '
'Why not! 1,2,3 Jump'

see how that works ? You haven't given an answer to the question you were asked.

Saying 'Why not' is not an answer. That doesn't count as a reason. Feel free to ignore this I was just curious as to what sorts of reasons you might come up with for why an Irish person would wear a union jack.

Dear Lord is that it :rolleyes: is that the thrust of your argument for and against wearing a British flag, Oh I see, you have set yourself up as the question master and you are playing with the subtleties between 'Why' & 'Why not' > sorry Morlar, I just cant be arsed playing your self fulfilling little game anymore, maybe you could play with Gurramuck, then maybe you could both jump.

Bye.

SeanW

Morlar wrote: »

Saying 'Why not' is not an answer. That doesn't count as a reason. Feel free to ignore this I was just curious as to what sorts of reasons you might come up with for why an Irish person would wear a union jack.

Actually, it is if you are ambivalent.

Turn this around, would you wear a jumper, shirt, jeans or whatever that had a small red patch in the design? A purple patch? Yellow ... you don't care??? Why would an Irish person wear a jumper with a purple diamond in the design?

If you don't care that there's a small union jack on your trainers or whatever, you don't need a reason for choosing, probably because the entire issue is seconday and you're making the decision by default, to wear it. That's my take on this anyway.

gurramok

LordSutch wrote: »

maybe you could play with Gurramuck, then maybe you could both jump.

Listen here, Mr Sutch the leader of the Monster Raving Loony Party. I'm clean Daz white style!!

LordSutch

Ex leader (deceased) if you please )

kevjob

Have to say that I would not wear anything with the British flag on it.

It just seems wrong!!!

pappyodaniel

Years ago, before I was taught to hate the English I was at a market in Fermanagh with an elderly aunt of mine. I saw a tracksuit (I know:rolleyes:) that I liked and she bought it for me. It was a replica England tracksuit and I thought it was the coolest tracksuit ever...until my dad saw it.
He went berserk and almost ripped the jacket part taking it off me. Sure I didn't understand and his reasons for it seemed inconsequential at the time. We eventually came to a compromise, my ma got out her sewing kit and took off the England crests.


A little bit of my innocence was ripped from me that day.

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

But why not, unless you have a pathalogical hatred of the Union Flag?

If its part of a label, (Reebok trainers for example), or a label inside a suit then why not wear it? there are many clothing items & bags being sold in Ireland with little British flags on them, usually because they have been made or designed by our neighbours up North & across the water, so why the disgust at their flag

What have they done to you Galwayguy?

....sez the man who wouldn't wear any Republican symbols.

Doc Ruby

LordSutch wrote: »

I have already said that if an item of clothing (Reebok Trainers) for example has a little Union flag on them, then why not wear them???

Jesus are you banging your unionist drum again.

Galwayguy35

Dudess wrote: »

Well the question wasn't "Would you wear a union jack" to be fair.

No but the OP did use the term "British Flag" so it would be the same would it not?

Galwayguy35

LordSutch wrote: »

But why not, unless you have a pathalogical hatred of the Union Flag?

If its part of a label, (Reebok trainers for example), or a label inside a suit then why not wear it? there are many clothing items & bags being sold in Ireland with little British flags on them, usually because they have been made or designed by our neighbours up North & across the water, so why the disgust at their flag

What have they done to you Galwayguy?

I dont have a pathalogical hatred of anyone. Im an Irish person and i have no desire to wear anything with a symbol of the union jack on it. I dont see anything wrong with that. Thats just my view and im not pushing it on anyone else.

holystungun9

Radical idea folks! People who wouldn't wear something with the flag on it shouldn't have to, and people who don't care could maybe have it as an option if they want.

I'm not really interested in bashing someone, whichever option they choose.

I, for example have two options with regard to this....

1. I could care.

2. I could not give a f#ck.


I'm going with option two on this one.

Ironman76

Id never wear Reebok because Ryan Giggs is one of their poster boys and everyone will think I wanna bone my brothers wife.

sensibleken

woodoo wrote: »

True pride in your country should mean that people will do whats best for the country. I think its closely related to pride in yourself, pride in your family, pride in your locality and pride in your country. I think it does no harm at all.

If everyone had pride in the country it would be a better place. Less people out to take take take,less tolerance of criminality around them, of politicians getting away with bad decisions, bad planning, less littering etc. The list is endless. Indifference and self interest has led us down the path we find ourselves in. People not particularly bothered about how the country was ran so long as their little patch was OK or their pockets were filled.

Pride is important in general and i see no reason not to extend it to your country.

I agree with what you say here but let me try and add to it. I would describe this more as civic prride. the idea youre part of a collective society and will strive to improve said society, you recognise and appreciate its history and culture because its led you to where you are.

National pride is too often actually nationalism which in practice seems to be the opposite. Its an excuse to define your group by what enemies you have given yourself based on a complete ignorance of your own history. Best example is when the queen visited and a few proud irish men tried to wreck the place.

sensibleken

Just a thought on how blinding nationalism is. People would object to wearing Rebok because of a union flag but nobody has mentioned their use of sweatshops.

gcgirl

I think us Irish need to get rid of the Huge chip we have seriously like !

starbelgrade

billybudd wrote: »

You may not be able to decide where you are born, but you can take pride in what nature bestowed upon the land that you were born on to, it is easy to feel pride in this land when you see some of the rough rustic beauty that is to be found in the four corners of Ireland, it is easy to find pride in people who have been born here who had the will and courage to stand up against tyranny and wrongfulness, it is easy to be proud that this land was a muse for some of the most talented writers in history, as a small Island we have produced a lot of things that have proven valuable to the world.

I agree with all that too - I'm happy to be Irish & to be fortunate enough to live here, but proud? No.

I suppose my issue is not with how people perceive the country or it's past, but how the word "pride" is used. Pride has inherent connotations with a sense of superiority and egotism, so to me it doesn't sit right when associated with what is more a sense of endearment for your country or an admiration for it's people past or present.

Though perhaps I'm just being a bit pedantic!

getz

SeanW wrote: »

Actually, it is if you are ambivalent.

Turn this around, would you wear a jumper, shirt, jeans or whatever that had a small red patch in the design? A purple patch? Yellow ... you don't care??? Why would an Irish person wear a jumper with a purple diamond in the design?

If you don't care that there's a small union jack on your trainers or whatever, you don't need a reason for choosing, probably because the entire issue is seconday and you're making the decision by default, to wear it. That's my take on this anyway.

when people say the word union jack i have to smile,as a ex merchant seaman i know that the union flag only becomes a union jack when it is placed on the jack staff[flag pole to you landlubers] on a ship,so you can imagine the funny picture that comes into my mind when someone says a pair of trainers with a union jack on them.

gurramok

starbelgrade wrote: »

Pride has inherent connotations with a sense of superiority and egotism

Do you say that about Gay Pride marchers then?

Vote 4 Pedro

Korvanica wrote: »

Why is everyone mentioning the Parka Jackets ? Its not like the Germans ever did anything to us ...

But they did fcuk just about everyone else, killed more people than any other, etc etc.

Nodin

Vote 4 Pedro wrote: »

.......Ireland help them, refueling there subs etc.

When did this happen? You've a source, I trust.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Vote 4 Pedro wrote: »

But they did fcuk just about everyone else, killed more people than any other, etc etc. and Ireland help them, refueling there subs etc.

While Ireland remained neutral in WW2 they did offer assistance to Britain in other ways, for instance passing on weather reports, allowing the RAF use of the airspace over Donegal, sending the DFB up to Belfast to assist in the aftermath of Luftwaffe bombings.

The Irish government gave no such assistance to Nazi Germany and to suggest otherwise is farcical.

otto_26

Tabnabs wrote: »

Some countries flags just look good or have a perceived cool vibe about them, the Union Flag just isn't one of them...

The Welsh flag is the !!!!BEST!!!! flag.

Would anyone have a problem wearing the Welsh flag?

Vote 4 Pedro

Nodin wrote: »

When did this happen? You've a source, I trust.

This may have been untrue and only rumour so i have edited post and apologize, it's just that i herd it a lot but now checked the facts and see it's untrue so apologize again.

Fratton Fred

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

While Ireland remained neutral in WW2 they did offer assistance to Britain in other ways, for instance passing on weather reports, allowing the RAF use of the airspace over Donegal, sending the DFB up to Belfast to assist in the aftermath of Luftwaffe bombings.

The Irish government gave no such assistance to Nazi Germany and to suggest otherwise is farcical.

Ireland did offer its condolences when Hitler died though. There were also plenty of people in Ireland trying to help them as well.

This needs to be viewed alongside the thousands of Irish men who joined the British army to fight the Nazis though.

Fratton Fred

otto_26 wrote: »

The Welsh flag is the !!!!BEST!!!! flag.

Would anyone have a problem wearing the Welsh flag?

It makes sheep very nervous.

otto_26

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It makes sheep very nervous.

hahaha, very funny well done!

blackbird98

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Ireland did offer its condolences when Hitler died though.

Dev did, but I don't think that was representative of the whole of Ireland!!

eviltimeban

Here's the thing, I probably wouldn't wear something with an Irish flag on it either! not because I'm not "proud of being Irish" or whatever, just because it doesn't really appeal to me. I can't think of a situation where I would have to wear it (I don't play, or follow, sports so that doesn't come into it). And I wouldn't want to be lumped in with the whole nationalist thing either.

Its more the symbolism in context. When I see the union flag, alongside pictures of Twiggy, the Beatles, Carnaby Street, even Noel Gallagher's guitar, I think "hey, groovy, swinging London, London is a great city, rock n roll" and all that. But when I travel up north and I see the slightly tattered union flags on display in certain towns, its a different feeling.

The question you have to ask is what feeling does it give you.

Fratton Fred

blackbird98 wrote: »

Dev did, but I don't think that was representative of the whole of Ireland!!

Officially it was, but no doubt the majority disagreed with it.

LordSutch

Cool Britannia British Flag Clothing )

http://img1.gtimg.com/luxury/pics/hv1/128/71/508/33050933.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fFd2RYd46xI/TfVSgVfuLBI/AAAAAAAAWsA/d_WlxO99WTk/s1600/Beady%252BEye%252BIsle%252BWight%252BUnion%252BJack.jpg

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_04/geriGOFF2702_642x1000.jpg

http://doorstepluxury.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/sexpistols.jpg

http://eurythmics.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/eubrits.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3vFsOeGVkd4/Sia47L3nJPI/AAAAAAAAALw/J3EvqicumkY/s400/union_jack_photos_2.jpg

Duckworth_Luas

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There were also plenty of people in Ireland trying to help them as well.

Who? Who were the "plenty of people" trying to assist the Nazis? Nonsense!

LordSutch

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Who? Who were the "plenty of people" trying to assist the Nazis? Nonsense!

This may have some bearing on it?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/we-must-fight-todays-ira-fascists-and-remove-the-sean-russell-statue-1847609.html

Badly Drunk Boy

I like flags but I'd never wear one on my clothing. Not even the Irish one. But especially not the Union one...

Badly Drunk Boy

LordSutch wrote: »

Cool Britannia British Flag Clothing )

http://img1.gtimg.com/luxury/pics/hv1/128/71/508/33050933.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fFd2RYd46xI/TfVSgVfuLBI/AAAAAAAAWsA/d_WlxO99WTk/s1600/Beady%252BEye%252BIsle%252BWight%252BUnion%252BJack.jpg

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_04/geriGOFF2702_642x1000.jpg

http://doorstepluxury.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/sexpistols.jpg

http://eurythmics.me.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/eubrits.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3vFsOeGVkd4/Sia47L3nJPI/AAAAAAAAALw/J3EvqicumkY/s400/union_jack_photos_2.jpg

No, not even that!

Duckworth_Luas

LordSutch wrote: »

This may have some bearing on it?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/we-must-fight-todays-ira-fascists-and-remove-the-sean-russell-statue-1847609.html

Good grief!

Sean Russell was not "plenty of people". He was part of a tiny, marginalised organisation with no popular support.

smugchik

Not anything as brash as a 'ginger-spice dress' circa 1994 way, but a small Union Jack flag design would not bother me if it was meant in the London way (but not the weird norn iron way)

I do not have any affiliation with the republican terrorism so definitely would NOT wear Irish flag!

celtictiger32

LordSutch wrote: »

This may have some bearing on it?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/we-must-fight-todays-ira-fascists-and-remove-the-sean-russell-statue-1847609.html

i wouldnt hold anything an idiot journalist such as this in any regard. isnt he the same guy that claimed to have been attacked on several occasions at republican events etc, if you hold such anti republican views why on earth would you go to anything vaguely republican. i certainly wouldnt go to see the bonfires on the 12th of july in belfast, and im pretty sure if i did i wouldnt be made too welcome to say the least.

on a point if a man/group/organisation/army or whoever goes to the germans for support it doesnt make them german!!!

celtictiger32

smugchik wrote: »

Not anything as brash as a 'ginger-spice dress' circa 1994 way, but a small Union Jack flag design would not bother me if it was meant in the London way (but not the weird norn iron way)

I do not have any affiliation with the republican terrorism so definitely would NOT wear Irish flag!

why would you have to have an affiliation with 'repulican terrorism' as you put it to wear an irish flag????????:rolleyes:

Irelandsfinest

would never have one on me near me or even on an appliance in my house, i'm not pedantic i just hate the sight of the butchers apron and everything it stands for especially in the 6 counties. I detest the sight of that foreign flag flying over Belfast city hall. When i get a new road map of Ireland the first thing i do is edit it, anywhere Derry is refered to as London so and so i strike it out with a pen leaving only Derry.

I hate the sight of the flag of the six counties or 'ulster flag' as they call it, i won't allow that abominantion anywhere near me either

Duckworth_Luas

smugchik wrote: »

Not anything as brash as a 'ginger-spice dress' circa 1994 way, but a small Union Jack flag design would not bother me if it was meant in the London way (but not the weird norn iron way)

I do not have any affiliation with the republican terrorism so definitely would NOT wear Irish flag!

It's sad that although you can seperate the United Kingdom flag from it's negative NI related connotations, you cannot do the same for the flag of this republic. Actually it's ridiculous!