Would you wear clothing with the British Flag on it?

iregk

OT: If Scotland has the referendum and get complete independence doesn't that make the union flag an invalid and at that point meaningless flag. It is after all a mixture of the Georges cross, Welsh and Scotish flags.

starbelgrade

summerskin wrote: »

OK, go and ask someone from Moss Side in Manchester to support Liverpool. Or someone from Sheffield to support Leeds.

This is a perfect illustration of how most irish people do not understand english football. loyalties are built on where you are from, for your local team for the majority of fans. The irish should follow LoI teams, they have no connection to manchester, liverpool or anywhere.

As an englishman, I don't choose to be a Real Madrid fan because Beckham once played for them, but apparently that's a good enough reason for someone to support United because paul mcgrath used to play there??? Utter rubbish. Wish those day trippers would stay at home and let real fans have a seat.

It's not that Irish people don't understand English football - it's that you haven't a clue about history.

The historical reason behind Irish people supporting Liverpool & Man United is due to the fact that thousands of Irish emmigrated to those cities for economic reasons. A lot of them settled & raised families there. The Irish link to those two cities in particular is not to be underestimated.

Then, as one would expect, many Irish men ended up playing for the local clubs - the list of Irish players who have passed through Anfield - and in particular - Old Trafford and Anfield is huge, so it is a natural conclusion that many Irish ended up supporting those two teams.

Having Irish people as stars abroad also meant that many Irish who remained in Ireland also became supporters of the two clubs. This has continued on for generations until the present day.

To suggest that this all began with Paul McGrath playing for Man United is absurd in the extreme - the history of Irish players in England goes back even before Man United had changed from their previous name as Newton heath - as far as 1983 when John Peden travelled across the pond to play for the club. Since then, over 60 Irishmen have played first team football for the club.

The Liverpool / Irish history is similar, dating as far back as 1914.

So, the next time you talk about "real fans", "loyalties" and people not understanding football, maybe you should keep that in mind & stop talking through your arse.

Fratton Fred

Auvers wrote: »

whats is the largest group of non indigenous people to reside in Mancheaster\Liverpool?

Bangladeshi?

Fratton Fred

iregk wrote: »

OT: If Scotland has the referendum and get complete independence doesn't that make the union flag an invalid and at that point meaningless flag. It is after all a mixture of the Georges cross, Welsh and Scotish flags.

St George, St Andrew and St Patrick actually. The Welsh flag doesn't appear in it.

duchalla

My 2 year old nephew was given a white polo shirt by his non irish grandparents with the 3 lions badge on it. Mentioned it to my sister who said its only a t-shirt, needless to say the particular polo shirt has now gone missing and will never ever be seen again....

Run_to_da_hills

I use to wear Rebock's in the north at the hight of the troubles and never got shot.

Abi

If it's I nice piece of clothing, then I don't give a shyte what flag is on it.

getz

nuxxx wrote: »

Not to mention the fact they're the two most successful clubs in England...

no they are not

Cee-Jay-Cee

I absolutely wouldnt. I picked up a Lambretta jacket a while back and was on for buying it till i spotted the union jack on the back of it, it was only a small flag maybe 1.5cm x 2cm but big enough that it was recognisable and so i put it back.

Personally i have nothing against England/Britian/UK and have absolutely no republican views/opinions but i just wouldnt want a UJ displayed on any of my clothing...saying that i also would never wear anything with an Irish Tri-colour on it either.

I have a T-shirt with the brazilian flag on it and another with the italian flag and have no problem/concerns wearing them.

Fratton Fred

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's not that Irish people don't understand English football - it's that you haven't a clue about history.

The historical reason behind Irish people supporting Liverpool & Man United is due to the fact that thousands of Irish emmigrated to those cities for economic reasons. A lot of them settled & raised families there. The Irish link to those two cities in particular is not to be underestimated.

Then, as one would expect, many Irish men ended up playing for the local clubs - the list of Irish players who have passed through Anfield - and in particular - Old Trafford and Anfield is huge, so it is a natural conclusion that many Irish ended up supporting those two teams.

Having Irish people as stars abroad also meant that many Irish who remained in Ireland also became supporters of the two clubs. This has continued on for generations until the present day.

To suggest that this all began with Paul McGrath playing for Man United is absurd in the extreme - the history of Irish players in England goes back even before Man United had changed from their previous name as Newton heath - as far as 1983 when John Peden travelled across the pond to play for the club. Since then, over 60 Irishmen have played first team football for the club.

The Liverpool / Irish history is similar, dating as far back as 1914.

So, the next time you talk about "real fans", "loyalties" and people not understanding football, maybe you should keep that in mind & stop talking through your arse.

Really?

Then why are Slough Town, Norwich City and Kilburn United not supported better over here?

The Irish connection is an excuse, not a reason for supporting Liverpool and Man U.

Malari

Abi wrote: »

If it's I nice piece of clothing, then I don't give a shyte what flag is on it.

I think the design of the union flag is cool, so wouldn't have a problem wearing it if I liked the item. I had a courier style bag with that pattern on it before. I've probably had a load of sport items with a tiny emblem on them that I've never noticed :pac:

sensibleken

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Really?

Then why are Slough Town, Norwich City and Kilburn United not supported better over here?

The Irish connection is an excuse, not a reason for supporting Liverpool and Man U.

Does it really matter though? cant people just support whatever the hell they want? Do people have to belong to a particular Haplogroup to watch a particular group of milionaire perfume salesmen cry when they fall over?

Its a toss up for me which is stupider, football or nationalism.

starbelgrade

getz wrote: »

no they are not

Eh, yes they are - and by a long shot.

United alone have won more league titles than their nearest rivals - Arsenal and Chelsea - combined.

summerskin

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's not that Irish people don't understand English football - it's that you haven't a clue about history.

The historical reason behind Irish people supporting Liverpool & Man United is due to the fact that thousands of Irish emmigrated to those cities for economic reasons. A lot of them settled & raised families there. The Irish link to those two cities in particular is not to be underestimated.

Then, as one would expect, many Irish men ended up playing for the local clubs - the list of Irish players who have passed through Anfield - and in particular - Old Trafford and Anfield is huge, so it is a natural conclusion that many Irish ended up supporting those two teams.

Having Irish people as stars abroad also meant that many Irish who remained in Ireland also became supporters of the two clubs. This has continued on for generations until the present day.

To suggest that this all began with Paul McGrath playing for Man United is absurd in the extreme - the history of Irish players in England goes back even before Man United had changed from their previous name as Newton heath - as far as 1983 when John Peden travelled across the pond to play for the club. Since then, over 60 Irishmen have played first team football for the club.

The Liverpool / Irish history is similar, dating as far back as 1914.

So, the next time you talk about "real fans", "loyalties" and people not understanding football, maybe you should keep that in mind & stop talking through your arse.

utter bollocks that only an irishman would spout. I'm an englishman who has moved to ireland, does that mean i should start supporting an irish team rather than the team i have supported from my local area since i was a child? it's fickle and i would never do it.

Did those irish who emigrated also start supporting england, as that was where they lived? of course not, they sat in the pub with their united shirts on and sent money back for the IRA. I sat in enough pubs and witnessed this happen. It's typical irish fickleness, you'll support anything english when it suits you, and then harp on about 800 years when it doesn't.

I'm from greater manchester, are you? no. I'd imagine that gives me a little more insight into the history of the area and even of the football clubs. Stick to your own clubs histories, you haven't a clue about english teams and the history. You don't support a team because a few irishmen played there. whoopee fnucking doo. That's like saying that because many footballers from manchester have played for teams in London that people in manchester should then support London teams.

You support a team because it means something to you, it represents your town or city, even your side of a town or city. Not because some random builder came over from ireland in 1914 and was half-decent.

Oh, I know, Paul Scholes is from oldham, and he plays for man Utd, I should now support United instead of Oldham, by your logic.

Stick to GAA.

Sindri

Fratton Fred wrote: »

St George, St Andrew and St Patrick actually. The Welsh flag doesn't appear in it.

I thought it does.

The colour doesn't but it is represented in the St. George cross as they are the same design.

So the cross is Wales and England, and the Saltire yokes are Ireland and Scotland.

sensibleken

summerskin wrote: »

utter bollocks that only an irishman would spout. I'm an englishman who has moved to ireland, does that mean i should start supporting an irish team rather than the team i have supported from my local area since i was a child? it's fickle and i would never do it.

Did those irish who emigrated also start supporting england, as that was where they lived? of course not, they sat in the pub with their united shirts on and sent money back for the IRA. I sat in enough pubs and witnessed this happen. It's typical irish fickleness, you'll support anything english when it suits you, and then harp on about 800 years when it doesn't.

I'm from greater manchester, are you? no. I'd imagine that gives me a little more insight into the history of the area and even of the football clubs. Stick to your own clubs histories, you haven't a clue about english teams and the history. You don't support a team because a few irishmen played there. whoopee fnucking doo. That's like saying that because many footballers from manchester have played for teams in London that people in manchester should then support London teams.

You support a team because it means something to you, it represents your town or city, even your side of a town or city. Not because some random builder came over from ireland in 1914 and was half-decent.

Oh, I know, Paul Scholes is from oldham, and he plays for man Utd, I should now support United instead of Oldham, by your logic.

Stick to GAA.

seriously, why do you live here if you think its so crap?

starbelgrade

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Really?

Then why are Slough Town, Norwich City and Kilburn United not supported better over here?

I would have though the answer to that was fairly obvious.

OldNotWIse

LordSutch wrote: »

But what are the implications? Seriously, what is the the problem in this day and age, bearing in mind that we are now in anew dispensation of friendly relations between Britain & Ireland? I honestly thought all that anti-British guff had evaporated in recent years . . . .

I dont know, thats the point (I put implications is quotation marks to signify that it was my colleague that said it, not me)

I agree that the anti-British carry on is childish but you only have to look at this thread alone to see concrete proof that it has not evaporated in recent years

summerskin

sensibleken wrote: »

seriously, why do you live here if you think its so crap?

I never said the country was crap. just the football fans and the constant harping on about 800 years from all the hand-wringing types who cannot take responsibility for their own actions and failures.

To be honest i'd love to move back to England, and I'm currently trying to convince my Irish wife to do so. However, family comes first, so it may not happen for a while.

pearliefan

I don't hold a massive grudge against England but no way would I wear clothing with their flag on it. Same with the American flag. Most flags really, but especially those. Not that I'd go around wearing something with a massive Irish flag either but it wouldn't bother me as much.

starbelgrade

summerskin wrote: »

utter bollocks that only an irishman would spout. I'm an englishman who has moved to ireland, does that mean i should start supporting an irish team rather than the team i have supported from my local area since i was a child? it's fickle and i would never do it.

Did those irish who emigrated also start supporting england, as that was where they lived? of course not, they sat in the pub with their united shirts on and sent money back for the IRA. I sat in enough pubs and witnessed this happen. It's typical irish fickleness, you'll support anything english when it suits you, and then harp on about 800 years when it doesn't.

I'm from greater manchester, are you? no. I'd imagine that gives me a little more insight into the history of the area and even of the football clubs. Stick to your own clubs histories, you haven't a clue about english teams and the history. You don't support a team because a few irishmen played there. whoopee fnucking doo. That's like saying that because many footballers from manchester have played for teams in London that people in manchester should then support London teams.

You support a team because it means something to you, it represents your town or city, even your side of a town or city. Not because some random builder came over from ireland in 1914 and was half-decent.

Oh, I know, Paul Scholes is from oldham, and he plays for man Utd, I should now support United instead of Oldham, by your logic.

Stick to GAA.

Jesus Christ, you have some seriously massive chip on your shoulder there, son.

That's the kind of attitude that gives the English a bad name.

summerskin

starbelgrade wrote: »

I would have though the answer to that was fairly obvious.

it is. The irish "fans" are fickle glory-hunters with no real sense of belonging to any club, they just follow the trophies. Funny how the number of coaches going to anfield from here has halved in the years where they haven't won anything...

therewillbe

NO,I blame TKMAXX!

sensibleken

summerskin wrote: »

I never said the country was crap. just the football fans and the constant harping on about 800 years from all the hand-wringing types who cannot take responsibility for their own actions and failures.

To be honest i'd love to move back to England, and I'm currently trying to convince my Irish wife to do so. However, family comes first, so it may not happen for a while.

well maybe youd get on better with irish people if you werent so rude about them. My gf is British and never gets any of that, neither do any of my british mates.

Avoid the 'typical irishman' talk and how shít everything is and maybe people wont try and redress the balance with you.

starbelgrade

summerskin wrote: »

it is. The irish "fans" are fickle glory-hunters with no real sense of belonging to any club, they just follow the trophies. Funny how the number of coaches going to anfield from here has halved in the years where they haven't won anything...

Do you often find your own hand hitting you in the face?

Latchy

bwatson wrote: »

The dubious anecdotal evidence of a poster with an obvious agenda does not count as a fact.

Wearing an Irish shirt isn't at all bigoted, but it is slightly crass and tacky. The elevated opinion the Irish have of themselves when abroad is very odd. "Sure they all love us here, everyone loves the Irish".

At Paris Disneyland hotels you'll see every nationality sitting around having breakfast and the irish don't get singled out for special attention 'just because we are Irish ' no ...they just eat the continental breakfast at the table like all the other Europeans :pac:

As for the British Flag on items of clothing ,well It's one thing wearing it on T shirt as a fashion statement ie,swinging sixties / cool britannia but in Ireland for many it's going to mean something else .

I have an Irish soccer scarf and shirt which I wear when the occasion arises or just about the house and I have had the union jack insignia on trainers to (miniscule one you would hardly notice anyway ) but it never bothered me just as I wouldn't be to bothered about the American ,French or German insiginia on them either .

Sindri

summerskin wrote: »

it is. The irish "fans" are fickle glory-hunters with no real sense of belonging to any club, they just follow the trophies. Funny how the number of coaches going to anfield from here has halved in the years where they haven't won anything...

I support Liverpool. I'm wearing a Liverpool tracksuit top now, why can't I support them. Was there some legislation passed forbidding it?

getz

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's not that Irish people don't understand English football - it's that you haven't a clue about history.

The historical reason behind Irish people supporting Liverpool & Man United is due to the fact that thousands of Irish emmigrated to those cities for economic reasons. A lot of them settled & raised families there. The Irish link to those two cities in particular is not to be underestimated.

Then, as one would expect, many Irish men ended up playing for the local clubs - the list of Irish players who have passed through Anfield - and in particular - Old Trafford and Anfield is huge, so it is a natural conclusion that many Irish ended up supporting those two teams.

Having Irish people as stars abroad also meant that many Irish who remained in Ireland also became supporters of the two clubs. This has continued on for generations until the present day.

To suggest that this all began with Paul McGrath playing for Man United is absurd in the extreme - the history of Irish players in England goes back even before Man United had changed from their previous name as Newton heath - as far as 1983 when John Peden travelled across the pond to play for the club. Since then, over 60 Irishmen have played first team football for the club.

The Liverpool / Irish history is similar, dating as far back as 1914.

So, the next time you talk about "real fans", "loyalties" and people not understanding football, maybe you should keep that in mind & stop talking through your arse.

now pay attention i will be asking questions after, as i keep on saying it, one in every three families in manchester have a irish ancestor many came over to build the manchester ship canal in the 19th century, even built their own town[irlam] settled down with local girls,without getting married[local catholic church would not let them marry a protestant] they would step across a brush [honest] thats were the word living over the brush comes from,

OldNotWIse

summerskin wrote: »

utter bollocks that only an irishman would spout. I'm an englishman who has moved to ireland, does that mean i should start supporting an irish team rather than the team i have supported from my local area since i was a child? it's fickle and i would never do it.

Did those irish who emigrated also start supporting england, as that was where they lived? of course not, they sat in the pub with their united shirts on and sent money back for the IRA. I sat in enough pubs and witnessed this happen. It's typical irish fickleness, you'll support anything english when it suits you, and then harp on about 800 years when it doesn't.

I'm from greater manchester, are you? no. I'd imagine that gives me a little more insight into the history of the area and even of the football clubs. Stick to your own clubs histories, you haven't a clue about english teams and the history. You don't support a team because a few irishmen played there. whoopee fnucking doo. That's like saying that because many footballers from manchester have played for teams in London that people in manchester should then support London teams.

You support a team because it means something to you, it represents your town or city, even your side of a town or city. Not because some random builder came over from ireland in 1914 and was half-decent.

Oh, I know, Paul Scholes is from oldham, and he plays for man Utd, I should now support United instead of Oldham, by your logic.

Stick to GAA.

"they sat in the pub with their united shirts on and sent money back for the IRA"

I actually thought your post was good until this slip-up.

summerskin

starbelgrade wrote: »

Jesus Christ, you have some seriously massive chip on your shoulder there, son.

That's the kind of attitude that gives the English a bad name.

Ah, the patronising use of "son", despite the fact that I'm probably older than you. How clever.

Funny about the english having a bad name, i seem to recall the irish being unwelcome in vast swathes of the world. You're not seen as the happy-go-lucky, lovable rogues you seem to think.

Most irish people are sound, as are most british people. I've never been made to feel unwelcome anywhere I have travelled.

Auvers

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Bangladeshi?

I am going back to the 50ies when whole families left for the UK mainly to Manchester\Liverpool and this led to the core support in Ireland for theses clubs in the 70ies\80ies

starbelgrade

summerskin wrote: »

Ah, the patronising use of "son", despite the fact that I'm probably older than you. How clever.

Funny about the english having a bad name, i seem to recall the irish being unwelcome in vast swathes of the world. You're not seen as the happy-go-lucky, lovable rogues you seem to think.

Most irish people are sound, as are most british people. I've never been made to feel unwelcome anywhere I have travelled.

I find that surprising considering the outlook you appear to have.

Sindri

Auvers wrote: »

I am going back to the 50ies when whole families left for the UK mainly to Manchester\Liverpool and this led to the core support in Ireland for theses clubs in the 70ies\80ies

There used to be a part of Manchester called Little Ireland. Life expectancy was just 17:eek:

That was in the 19th century.

Auvers

summerskin wrote: »

utter bollocks that only an irishman would spout. I'm an englishman who has moved to ireland, does that mean i should start supporting an irish team rather than the team i have supported from my local area since i was a child? it's fickle and i would never do it.

Did those irish who emigrated also start supporting england, as that was where they lived? of course not, they sat in the pub with their united shirts on and sent money back for the IRA. I sat in enough pubs and witnessed this happen. It's typical irish fickleness, you'll support anything english when it suits you, and then harp on about 800 years when it doesn't.

I'm from greater manchester, are you? no. I'd imagine that gives me a little more insight into the history of the area and even of the football clubs. Stick to your own clubs histories, you haven't a clue about english teams and the history. You don't support a team because a few irishmen played there. whoopee fnucking doo. That's like saying that because many footballers from manchester have played for teams in London that people in manchester should then support London teams.

You support a team because it means something to you, it represents your town or city, even your side of a town or city. Not because some random builder came over from ireland in 1914 and was half-decent.

Oh, I know, Paul Scholes is from oldham, and he plays for man Utd, I should now support United instead of Oldham, by your logic.

Stick to GAA.

sweet Jesus, that is all

old hippy

I'd not wear the flag of any country - am not into this tedious parochial "patriotism" that gets people so incensed.

starbelgrade

old hippy wrote: »

I'd not wear the flag of any country - am not into this tedious parochial "patriotism" that gets people so incensed.

For the very same reason, I would wear the flag of any country.

old hippy

OldNotWIse wrote: »

"they sat in the pub with their united shirts on and sent money back for the IRA"

I actually thought your post was good until this slip-up.

Racism has many faces and many angles

Auvers

KeithAFC wrote: »

Yeah but Arsenal don't have a huge support in N.I or anywhere on the island. I am glad about that. Every top I see is either Man Utd or Liverpool. Good to be in the middle.

I support Arsenal, cause I lived around the corner from Highbury for 20 years, not so much anymore though, as Soccer is a load of crap now

old hippy

starbelgrade wrote: »

For the very same reason, I would wear the flag of any country.

I'd wear a map of the world, mind

DEFTLEFTHAND

There is an argument to be made for Irish fans following the trophys, I've a mate who recently switched from supporting Leeds to Man City.:rolleyes:
I enjoy watching English football but feel no connection to any club, people laugh in my face when I tell them I support St Pats.

summerskin

starbelgrade wrote: »

I find that surprising considering the outlook you appear to have.

i've lived in the north west of england, London, france, switzerland, the USA and now ireland. I have friends in each place and have many irish friends, of course. My family left ireland over a hundred years ago to go to the UK and the USA. I'm just sick of all the anti-british drivel spouted on here by people sitting there wearing the united/liverpool shirts they are so proud of.

i've never been a nationalistic person, funny thing is that now i feel driven to defend the UK against the constant bashing.

funnily, when i'm in manchester this weekend I'll be defending ireland in a similar manner at times when people make the usual jokes about the country.

sensibleken

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

There is an argument to be made for Irish fans following the trophys, I've a mate who recently switched from supporting Leeds to Man City.:rolleyes:
I enjoy watching English football but feel no connection to any club, people laugh in my face when I tell them I support St Pats.

Maybe I dont understand but what is wrong with that. Its just a game its not like people are swapping families

old hippy

summerskin wrote: »

i've lived in the north west of england, London, france, switzerland, the USA and now ireland. I have friends in each place and have many irish friends, of course. My family left ireland over a hundred years ago to go to the UK and the USA. I'm just sick of all the anti-british drivel spouted on here by people sitting there wearing the united/liverpool shirts they are so proud of.

i've never been a nationalistic person, funny thing is that now i feel driven to defend the UK against the constant bashing.

funnily, when i'm in manchester this weekend I'll be defending ireland in a similar manner at times when people make the usual jokes about the country.

Which is your right, of course. But best leave out the generalisations about Irish people in the UK supporting the paramilitaries...

summerskin

starbelgrade wrote: »

For the very same reason, I would wear the flag of any country.

As would i. Over the years I have owned shirts with the flags of France, USA, Germany, Argentina, Australia, Ireland, Northern Ireland and Russia. Don't see the big deal, it's an item of clothing, not a symbol of war and/or repression.

sensibleken

summerskin wrote: »

i've lived in the north west of england, London, france, switzerland, the USA and now ireland. I have friends in each place and have many irish friends, of course. My family left ireland over a hundred years ago to go to the UK and the USA. I'm just sick of all the anti-british drivel spouted on here by people sitting there wearing the united/liverpool shirts they are so proud of.

i've never been a nationalistic person, funny thing is that now i feel driven to defend the UK against the constant bashing.

funnily, when i'm in manchester this weekend I'll be defending ireland in a similar manner at times when people make the usual jokes about the country.

Maybe youd fare better if tyou were just consitent with your opinions and stop haging around with biggoted morons, it seems to be rubbing off.

mongdesade

summerskin wrote: »

Ah, the patronising use of "son", despite the fact that I'm probably older than you. How clever.

Funny about the english having a bad name, i seem to recall the irish being unwelcome in vast swathes of the world. You're not seen as the happy-go-lucky, lovable rogues you seem to think.

Most irish people are sound, as are most british people. I've never been made to feel unwelcome anywhere I have travelled.

Enlighten us ignorant Irish please...

summerskin

old hippy wrote: »

Which is your right, of course. But best leave out the generalisations about Irish people in the UK supporting the paramilitaries...

i'm not saying they all do, I'm saying that I have witnessed it in the past in both manchester and Kilburn. It seems ridiculous that they can do that while wearing an english football shirt.

DEFTLEFTHAND

sensibleken wrote: »

Maybe I dont understand but what is wrong with that. Its just a game its not like people are swapping families

For me supporting a club means sticking with it through thick and thin, not jumping ship when a better prospect comes along.

old hippy

mongdesade wrote: »

Enlighten us ignorant Irish please...

I don't know about vast swathes but certainly we were made feel very unwelcome in the US and UK in the 19th century...

And as far as I'm aware, there's a bit of resentment to us in Bondi?

starbelgrade

summerskin wrote: »

i'm not saying they all do, I'm saying that I have witnessed it in the past in both manchester and Kilburn. It seems ridiculous that they can do that while wearing an english football shirt.

Some people are idiots. That's about all you can say on the matter, but the vast majority of Irish supporters of English clubs harbour no anti-British sentiment whatsoever, as do the vast majority of Irish people.

You can't let a few rotten apples spoil the barrell.