Would you wear clothing with the British Flag on it?

seamus

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's not that Irish people don't understand English football - it's that you haven't a clue about history.

The historical reason behind Irish people supporting Liverpool & Man United is .....

I'm sorry starbelgrade, that's just complete and utter nonsense revisionism.

The reason behind Irish people supporting English teams is because when you're young and hearing about English teams playing football, every young child wants to be able to rally behind a team and shout for one or the other. So they pick premiership teams who are doing well so that they can boast to their mates about how Man U beat Liverpool. If your brother picks Liverpool, you pick Everton, just so you can fight about it.

You never see any Irish people supporting lower-level teams, do you? How many Irish kids go around shouting for Yeovil or Gillingham? That's right, none. Because they're not in the premiership.

Look at the main teams all being supported by Irish people today - Liverpool, because they dominated in the 80's, Man United because they've dominated since then, and Chelsea because they have consistently put in a strong fight for the top over the last ten years.

It's go nothing to do with history and emigration and everything to do with being able to say "my team is better than yours". It has no more historical reference than having a favourite wrestler.

old hippy

summerskin wrote: »

i'm not saying they all do, I'm saying that I have witnessed it in the past in both manchester and Kilburn. It seems ridiculous that they can do that while wearing an english football shirt.

And this small contingent were the type who would besmirch our reputation - certainly not representative of the majority of us. Ghetto enclaves can bring out the worst in people.

summerskin

mongdesade wrote: »

Enlighten us ignorant Irish please...

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-students-unwelcome-in-California-towns-100180939.html

one example. Historically the irish were excluded from many jobs in the USA as per the famous slogan INNA (Irish need not apply) No Irish need apply is NOT an urban legend.
In the 1800's when Irish immigrants took up whole neighbourhoods in New York City, many business owners put up "No Irish need apply" signs up. Many business owners did not want Irish to apply, especially in New York City, because of the reputation they had as drinking loud mouths. Irish were also seen as dirty and disease ridden and it was a common belief that the potato blithe in the Great Potato Famine could be passed through humans and was a disease.
Also stories have been told that New York City newsboys often fought with each other and Italian and Jewish immigrants would scream "No Irish need apply" in teasing to the Irish boys.

Glad those days are gone, personally.

howamidifferent

Worked in Poland for 6 months about 6 years ago. While there I bought a lovely thick warm fleece jacket to keep out the cold that was the norm there in the winter. Loved it.

Cam home and the first day I put it on here was a paddys day 17th March.
Walking through town with the girlfriend, minding my own business and out of nowhere a group of about 8 to 10 late teenage scumbags started shouting, roaring and squaring up to me with shouts of "throw him in the river", "kill the ****er" etc. I hadnt even thought about it but there was a small british flag on the back of the jacket that had abviously caught there eye and in their indignation they wanted to throw it and me still wearing it, into the river. :eek:

Managed to push my way past them, pretending to ignore them while all the while waiting for the thumps/slaps/or kicks to follow. Didnt happen thankfully but frightened the hell out of me. Never wore it again despite loving that jacket. Toe-rags of the highest order who likely had never read a history book but had been brainwashed that all things english were bad except football teams. Turns out it was a Reebok jacket but I hadnt known that or noticed that the emblem on the back was an english flag. Even if I had known I wouldnt have seen a problem with a piece of clothing so couldnt fathom the hatred it inspired that day. Its a coat for ****s sake!

jimmurt

I have nothing against the English and have a lot of English friends but honestly I wouldn't wear any clothing with a Union Jack on it. Flags are very symbolic and given the history behind the Union Jack I wouldn't wear it. I wouldn't be mad about wearing any other nations flag either but the Union Jack especially.

I often wondered if Reebok considered this tag on their runners could be having a big effect on the sales of these runners in Ireland. Based on this thread it should have.

I don't wear any English socer jerseys either (not out of principle but because they're a rip-off and I'm not a major supporter of any of the teams).

Sindri

@seamus I have a friend who supports Watford.


But it's only because they were playing a team that his cousin supports.

copeyhagen

i wouldnt wear a british flag on my clothes. my motorbike helmet came with a british flag sticker on it (as i think all helmets do) so i scratched it off.

nothing against the british, if im in an accident in ireland and all they can recognise on me is a british flag on my helmet, sure the irish would leave me there on the ground!!

Sindri

summerskin wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-students-unwelcome-in-California-towns-100180939.html

one example. Historically the irish were excluded from many jobs in the USA as per the famous slogan INNA (Irish need not apply) No Irish need apply is NOT an urban legend.
In the 1800's when Irish immigrants took up whole neighbourhoods in New York City, many business owners put up "No Irish need apply" signs up. Many business owners did not want Irish to apply, especially in New York City, because of the reputation they had as drinking loud mouths. Irish were also seen as dirty and disease ridden and it was a common belief that the potato blithe in the Great Potato Famine could be passed through humans and was a disease.
Also stories have been told that New York City newsboys often fought with each other and Italian and Jewish immigrants would scream "No Irish need apply" in teasing to the Irish boys.

Glad those days are gone, personally.

It was not being drunken loud mouths it's because they were catholic and more importantly, because they were poor.

summerskin

sensibleken wrote: »

Maybe youd fare better if tyou were just consitent with your opinions and stop haging around with biggoted morons, it seems to be rubbing off.

funnily it's not the people i hang around with who are the morons, it's idiots who i don't know, here and in the UK. people over-hearing conversations and jumping in with abuse.

Feisar

cena wrote: »

But there still an english team.

Well I'd say they were an American owned business based in England.

copeyhagen

howamidifferent wrote: »

Cam home and the first day I put it on here was a paddys day 17th March.
Walking through town with the girlfriend, minding my own business and out of nowhere a group of about 8 to 10 late teenage scumbags started shouting, roaring and squaring up to me with shouts of "throw him in the river", "kill the ****er" etc.(

wearing a british flag, in town, on paddys day... your lucky they didnt throw you in the river, the scrotes do be out in force.

Ellis Dee

You can buy rolls of Union Jack loo paper. It doesn't bother me at all to use it.:):):)

starbelgrade

seamus wrote: »

I'm sorry starbelgrade, that's just complete and utter nonsense revisionism.

It's hardly revisionism. I was talking about the historical reasons behind the support in Ireland for Man Utd & Liverpool.

Today's generations obviously have different reasons for their club loyalties, though in many families the support for these clubs has passed through from fathers to sons an so on.

And as everyone knows, Chelsea supporters are a bunch of **** anyway and not worth mentioning.

old hippy

summerskin wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-students-unwelcome-in-California-towns-100180939.html

one example. Historically the irish were excluded from many jobs in the USA as per the famous slogan INNA (Irish need not apply) No Irish need apply is NOT an urban legend.
In the 1800's when Irish immigrants took up whole neighbourhoods in New York City, many business owners put up "No Irish need apply" signs up. Many business owners did not want Irish to apply, especially in New York City, because of the reputation they had as drinking loud mouths. Irish were also seen as dirty and disease ridden and it was a common belief that the potato blithe in the Great Potato Famine could be passed through humans and was a disease.
Also stories have been told that New York City newsboys often fought with each other and Italian and Jewish immigrants would scream "No Irish need apply" in teasing to the Irish boys.

Glad those days are gone, personally.

There was this fella from NY who used to post on a well known Irish newspapers forum - who made it his life's work to dismiss the fact of how we were treated as myth. He mailed off letters and emails to various east coast papers (that appeal to Irish Americans) in the States to slate the idea that we had it anything other than good. Quite obsessive chap.

No, it's not an urban legend & it's a part of our history that deserves more telling.

But I digress...

fryup

all anti brit crap aside

i think the union jack is a cool design, certainly beats a boring tri colour

sensibleken

summerskin wrote: »

funnily it's not the people i hang around with who are the morons, it's idiots who i don't know, here and in the UK. people over-hearing conversations and jumping in with abuse.

are you having conversations about how crap it is here? cause that can cause a reaction. either that or stop drinking in the widow scanlons.

seriously, my british mates have never had any hassle like that here so its either you or where your having these conversations. It is certainly not indicitive of how most Irish people behave

mongdesade

summerskin wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-students-unwelcome-in-California-towns-100180939.html

one example. Historically the irish were excluded from many jobs in the USA as per the famous slogan INNA (Irish need not apply) No Irish need apply is NOT an urban legend.
In the 1800's when Irish immigrants took up whole neighbourhoods in New York City, many business owners put up "No Irish need apply" signs up. Many business owners did not want Irish to apply, especially in New York City, because of the reputation they had as drinking loud mouths. Irish were also seen as dirty and disease ridden and it was a common belief that the potato blithe in the Great Potato Famine could be passed through humans and was a disease.
Also stories have been told that New York City newsboys often fought with each other and Italian and Jewish immigrants would scream "No Irish need apply" in teasing to the Irish boys.

Glad those days are gone, personally.

I concur, thank you sir

Latchy

Ellis Dee wrote: »

You can buy rolls of Union Jack loo paper. It doesn't bother me at all to use it.:):):)

You can get Maggie Thatcher and Brian Cowen loo paper to ...but would you really be arsed

howamidifferent

copeyhagen wrote: »

wearing a british flag, in town, on paddys day... your lucky they didnt throw you in the river, the scrotes do be out in force.

I hadn't even known i was wearing a british flag but as I said, even if I had known, I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem. Never associated clothing with hatred...in my naivety.

swimming in a sea

I think someone said the union flag is seen as the flag of colonial oppression around the world, well I've spent some time in Singapore a former colony and jeez the union flag is on a lot of clothing over there.

The ignorance of those poor Singapore people to their oppressive history, if only they could be as well informed as us Irish, think how more complete their lives would be.

ejmaztec

Ellis Dee wrote: »

You can buy rolls of Union Jack loo paper. It doesn't bother me at all to use it.:):):)

It might if the ink ran and you had a Union Jack arse.

gurramok

howamidifferent wrote: »

Worked in Poland for 6 months about 6 years ago. While there I bought a lovely thick warm fleece jacket to keep out the cold that was the norm there in the winter. Loved it.

Cam home and the first day I put it on here was a paddys day 17th March.
Walking through town with the girlfriend, minding my own business and out of nowhere a group of about 8 to 10 late teenage scumbags started shouting, roaring and squaring up to me with shouts of "throw him in the river", "kill the ****er" etc. I hadnt even thought about it but there was a small british flag on the back of the jacket that had abviously caught there eye and in their indignation they wanted to throw it and me still wearing it, into the river. :eek:

Managed to push my way past them, pretending to ignore them while all the while waiting for the thumps/slaps/or kicks to follow. Didnt happen thankfully but frightened the hell out of me. Never wore it again despite loving that jacket. Toe-rags of the highest order who likely had never read a history book but had been brainwashed that all things english were bad except football teams. Turns out it was a Reebok jacket but I hadnt known that or noticed that the emblem on the back was an english flag. Even if I had known I wouldnt have seen a problem with a piece of clothing so couldnt fathom the hatred it inspired that day. Its a coat for ****s sake!

You were probably mistaken for a Loyalist thug, hardly blame them? The hardcore of loyalists up north have hijacked the union flag just like the NF in Britain.

summerskin

sensibleken wrote: »

are you having conversations about how crap it is here? cause that can cause a reaction. either that or stop drinking in the widow scanlons.

seriously, my british mates have never had any hassle like that here so its either you or where your having these conversations. It is certainly not indicitive of how most Irish people behave

yeah, of course I'm sat in the pub with my irish friends saying it's crap over here, that'd be a great conversation...

Last piece of abuse i got was a few days ago when some drunken middle aged tosspot was listening to our converation about work and came over and told me to "fnuck off back with your diesel, we don't want you english cnuts over here anyway". Charming fellow. Of course all the lads were apologetic and he got kicked out of the pub.

Had similar about 14 months ago in a pub in london, some ignorant prick must have heard i lived in Ireland and came over and told me to **** off and stop giving those terrorist cnuts my money and that i was a disgrace to britain.

Knobheads, knobheads everywhere.

bwatson

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Really?

Then why are Slough Town, Norwich City and Kilburn United not supported better over here?

The Irish connection is an excuse, not a reason for supporting Liverpool and Man U.

Also makes me wonder why the likes of Shamrock Rovers don't have a higher attendance each week. Sure the Irish connection they have must be somewhere near the level of the Irish connection at Manchester United.

old hippy

summerskin wrote: »

yeah, of course I'm sat in the pub with my irish friends saying it's crap over here, that'd be a great conversation...

Last piece of abuse i got was a few days ago when some drunken middle aged tosspot was listening to our converation about work and came over and told me to "fnuck off back with your diesel, we don't want you english cnuts over here anyway". Charming fellow. Of course all the lads were apologetic and he got kicked out of the pub.

Had similar about 14 months ago in a pub in london, some ignorant prick must have heard i lived in Ireland and came over and told me to **** off and stop giving those terrorist cnuts my money and that i was a disgrace to britain.

Knobheads, knobheads everywhere.

Indeed. At the end of the day, some people have empty lives and as such, they have to vent their ire on someone or some people. Don't we see enough of that on these very boards?

sensibleken

summerskin wrote: »

yeah, of course I'm sat in the pub with my irish friends saying it's crap over here, that'd be a great conversation...

Last piece of abuse i got was a few days ago when some drunken middle aged tosspot was listening to our converation about work and came over and told me to "fnuck off back with your diesel, we don't want you english cnuts over here anyway". Charming fellow. Of course all the lads were apologetic and he got kicked out of the pub.

Had similar about 14 months ago in a pub in london, some ignorant prick must have heard i lived in Ireland and came over and told me to **** off and stop giving those terrorist cnuts my money and that i was a disgrace to britain.

Knobheads, knobheads everywhere.

Yes there are knobheads. But when you make disparaging remarks like 'typical irishmen', 'only an irishman would say that', and go on about how crap the country youre living in is you are doing exactly the same as those people and are no better. Frankly its quite rude

starbelgrade

fryup wrote: »

all anti brit crap aside

i think the union jack is a cool design, certainly beats a boring tri colour

Back in the 60s when the likes of The Beatles, The Who, The Rolling Stones etc., were at their height, the Union Jack was used as a symbol of the "British Cool"... it's now forever associated with iconographic style and design and was carried through to the Mod & Punk eras.

To some extent, it made a comeback with the Britpop bands & who can forget the super cool car that Austin Powers had?

A flag is what you make it - it can represent a symbol of British Imperialism, or it can be reclaimed as it has been many times to represent the cooler, trendier & more forward thinking part of modern British history & pop culture - a culture which I think that most people admire or enjoy in some shape or fashion.

But if people want to bang on about 8 million years of oppression, then let them - I'll be listening to Paul Weller with me headphones on while I watch Man United win the league & won't hear them anyway.

summerskin

sensibleken wrote: »

Yes there are knobheads. But when you make disparaging remarks like 'typical irishmen', 'only an irishman would say that', and go on about how crap the country youre living in is you are doing exactly the same as those people and are no better. Frankly its quite rude

i've not said the country is crap, i've said some of the people are. you can't seriously expect us to sit back and see all the bile spouted against england on the thread and not defend it in any way? Were the anti-british posts rude, or does that only work one way??

ejmaztec

What about these, would you only get beaten up a little?

Latchy

I'm guessing it's the first Anti-Brit thread of 2012 but one had to come along sooner or later .

sensibleken

summerskin wrote: »

i've not said the country is crap, i've said some of the people are. you can't seriously expect us to sit back and see all the bile spouted against england on the thread and not defend it in any way? Were the anti-british posts rude, or does that only work one way??

Yes you did, you banged on about how education, health, politics, sport are all teriible. you then made stupid generalisations about irish people with 'typical irishman'. you were not defending england you were attacking ireland.

People were rude about England then thats wrong too, anti-british bigotry is dumb aswell, your just in the same pile as them. If people are being rude about england be as rude to them back as you want. Just dont drag me into it by making generalisations about the Irish

ejmaztec

Latchy wrote: »

I'm guessing it's the first Anti-Brit thread of 2012 but one had to come along sooner or later .

I can't be arsed reading it all, but did the "butcher's apron" get a mention? It wouldn't be the same if it didn't.

Latchy

ejmaztec wrote: »

I can't be arsed reading it all, but did the "butcher's apron" get a mention? It wouldn't be the same if it didn't.

There was a slight mention of it yes .

summerskin

sensibleken wrote: »

Yes you did, you banged on about how education, health, politics, sport are all teriible. you then made stupid generalisations about irish people with 'typical irishman'. you were not defending england you were attacking ireland.

People were rude about England then thats wrong too, anti-british bigotry is dumb aswell, your just in the same pile as them. If people are being rude about england be as rude to them back as you want. Just dont drag me into it by making generalisations about the Irish

Fair enough. Apologies.

UglyBolloxFace

Washout wrote: »

SO my wife is Indian...and was over there on a trip home.

she brought me back a jumper with a little patch of the British flag about 2cm by 1cm.

I said to her, I cant wear that with the flag on it ill get a different patch to cover it. (you cant just simply remove it).

The argument that ensued was unreal.

Just wondering if there is Irish ppl out there who would wear it and am I just being totally pedantic.

I agree with you. I had a pair of those Reebok runners while in the school, the ones with the little UK flag on it. I went over it with a permanent black marker. To be honest, I feel weird even admitting this.

Cú Giobach

summerskin wrote: »

.............

Surely you understand that the union flag has certain connotations to many on this island, personally I would be quite uncomfortable wearing something with it on it. Not because of any bad feeling towards the country, but having connections with the north where the sight of that flag gives a certain unease and desire to go elsewhere to have a pint. You could call it Classical Conditioning something every human is stuck with whether we like it or not.

UglyBolloxFace

Washout wrote: »

SO my wife is Indian...and was over there on a trip home.

she brought me back a jumper with a little patch of the British flag about 2cm by 1cm.

I said to her, I cant wear that with the flag on it ill get a different patch to cover it. (you cant just simply remove it).

The argument that ensued was unreal.

Just wondering if there is Irish ppl out there who would wear it and am I just being totally pedantic.

Here's something simple that will stop this argument between your wife. Ask her would she wear something with a Pakistani flag on it. I'm sure that will end the argument there and then.

Better yet, buy her this and see her reaction - http://rlv.zcache.com/pakistan_pakistani_flag_tshirt-p235419258868107740z8nr2_400.jpg

Because it's basically the same thing.

fryup

> walk down any main st in england wearing a tee shirt with an irish tricolour no one will batt an eyelid

> walk down any any main st in ireland wearing a tee shirt with a union jack and there a big chance you'll get abuse FACT

who's the bigots i ask you?

sensibleken

summerskin wrote: »

Fair enough. Apologies.

Thank you very much. very gracious

some random drunk

smash wrote: »

Can you get union jack toilet roll?

No, but you can get the flag of St. George....

http://ebay.heritageofscotland.com/images/emrah_april2011/IMG_4829.JPG

starbelgrade

Indian woman buys man jumper & leads to 18 page argument shocker.

Latchy

fryup wrote: »

> walk down any main st in england wearing a tee shirt with an irish tricolour no one will batt an eyelid

> walk down any any main st in ireland wearing a tee shirt with a union jack and there a big chance you'll get abuse FACT

who's the bigots i ask you?

Living in England I can testify to this and not just on St Pats day to (when some English will also don the green jersey and other Irish paraphernalia to )

sensibleken

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Surely you understand that the union flag has certain connotations to many on this island, personally I would be quite uncomfortable wearing something with it on it. Not because of any bad feeling towards the country, but having connections with the north where the sight of that flag gives a certain unease and desire to go elsewhere to have a pint. You could call it Classical Conditioning something every human is stuck with whether we like it or not.

Do you think there is two sides to this? Travelling through an area of NI with Union jack kerbstones I would feel very uncomfortable. It being on Jerry Haliwells dress I wont be. Similarly a tricolour on an irish product vs an indian ink tattoo on some bloke with tiocfaidh ar la under it.

The difference is context. Its just a piece of cloth that can represent different things. But some people, depending on their experience with the symbol, leave the context out when interpreting it.

It cant really be said that union jack on a pair of rebocks or the Oasis guys guitar is somehow supporting the act of union or slavery.

mongdesade

fryup wrote: »

> walk down any main st in england wearing a tee shirt with an irish tricolour no one will batt an eyelid

> walk down any any main st in ireland wearing a tee shirt with a union jack and there a big chance you'll get abuse FACT

who's the bigots i ask you?

I beg to differ...
I attended a motorbike rally in England wearing my club colours which proudly sports a tricolour & was asked to leave...FACT
& before the cry of "What do you expect ?" goes out, it's globally traditional for bikers to fly the flag of origin on their colours

fryup

mongdesade wrote: »

I beg to differ...
I attended a motorbike rally in England wearing my club colours which proudly sports a tricolour & was asked to leave...FACT

ya but there's always a thuggish element amongst bikers;)

Dravokivich

starbelgrade wrote: »

Indian woman buys man jumper & leads to 18 page argument shocker.

"Only in 'merica!"

:pac:

Cú Giobach

sensibleken wrote: »

Do you think there is two sides to this? Travelling through an area of NI with Union jack kerbstones I would feel very uncomfortable. It being on Jerry Haliwells dress I wont be. Similarly a tricolour on an irish product vs an indian ink tattoo on some bloke with tiocfaidh ar la under it.

The difference is context. Its just a piece of cloth that can represent different things. But some people, depending on their experience with the symbol, leave the context out when interpreting it.

It cant really be said that union jack on a pair of rebocks or the Oasis guys guitar is somehow supporting the act of union or slavery.

That's why I mentioned "Classical Conditioning", it's a very real effect that all animals are subject to. We can use logic to try to disregard the effect but it goes very deep and most people wouldn't even be aware of how it affects them.
It must be remembered that symbols have different meanings to different people and we use emblems for a reason, this being they have such strength to us as humans and seeing one persons feelings as illogical ignores the power and strength emblems and symbols have.

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^^

ah, don't be getting all intellectual on us

Immaculate Pasta

fryup wrote: »

> walk down any main st in england wearing a tee shirt with an irish tricolour no one will batt an eyelid

> walk down any any main st in ireland wearing a tee shirt with a union jack and there a big chance you'll get abuse FACT

who's the bigots i ask you?

Not completely true. I've been abused for wearing an Ireland shirt in Manchester and in Edinburgh.

:cool:

Dyr

fryup wrote: »

all anti brit crap aside

i think the union jack is a cool design, certainly beats a boring tri colour

We really should have used the united irishmen harp, to hell with those nordies they never got with the program in the anyway. :pac: