Ireland & Wolfhounds Squads for the 2012 RBS 6 Nations.

.ak

Also, I'm a big Conway fan, but honestly surprised to see him in the squad... He's had little to no senior game time this year... Why not someone a tad more down the line than him?

bamboozle

bleg wrote: »

These squad announcements always throw up so much hate on this board. It's an "appalling selection" because 1 or 2 players haven't gotten a look in?

I think that the 24 selected for the match day squad are pretty much our best 24 players.

A lot of people on here need to cop on and get over themselves.

on this season's form who do you think are playing better?

Fitz, Touhy, Toner

or
Earls, Cullen, DOC

Tox56

bleg wrote: »

These squad announcements always throw up so much hate on this board. It's an "appalling selection" because 1 or 2 players haven't gotten a look in?

I think that the 24 selected for the match day squad are pretty much our best 24 players.

A lot of people on here need to cop on and get over themselves.

How can you the defend the selection of DOC and Cullen over Tuohy/McCarthy/Toner for example.

I know this won't be a complete squad, but I dont understand why these two guys are anywhere near the senior team.

d-gal

.ak wrote: »

Also, I'm a big Conway fan, but honestly surprised to see him in the squad... He's had little to no senior game time this year... Why not someone a tad more down the line than him?

Probably seen to have one of the biggest futures for Irish rugby. Same with TOH, POM and Nagle

JRant

shuffol wrote: »

In 09 we won the GS with the lowest try count in the history of the competition. i.e we won games up front and relied on moments of inspiration from BOD. 6 of the starting 8 from the pack were Munster players, guys Kidney knew well and won 2 Heineken Cups with and who he had a tremendous ability to inspire. There's the secret of our success, the coaches rapport with an ageing pack and no.10. Hardly a recipe for sustained success. Fast forward 3 years and 4 of that starting pack has gone and another one has no right to be there. Kidneys honeymoon should be long over.

Careful now, common sense like that really riles up some folk around these here parts;)
If he wins the 6N this year, then it'll be humble pie all round. A repeat of last year and he should step down. In professional sport your only as good as your last result.

desertcircus

bleg wrote: »

I think that the 24 selected for the match day squad are pretty much our best 24 players.

No, they're not. And the ones that clearly aren't are the ones people are annoyed about. O'Callaghan is third choice lock for Munster while Toner and Tuohy are starting HC matches; he's simply not better than them. Fitzgerald has responded to being dropped for the WC by massively upping his game, and he's not in the 24. Tomas O'Leary is in worse form than Paul Marshall but gets the Wolfhounds nod. Craig Gilroy is on fire but can't get near a green jersey while Zebo is a Wolfhound.

We're not just griping: there are several picks that are inexplicable. Pair that with Kidney's tendency to pick established players over newcomers and it's no surprise people are annoyed.

bleg

bamboozle wrote: »

on this season's form who do you think are playing better?

Fitz, Touhy, Toner

or
Earls, Cullen, DOC

I did say "pretty much."


And yea I'd have Earls ahead of Fitz any day. Earls has proven himself internationally and is being played out of position at the moment, Fitz hasn't unfortunately. Though if he goes well in the Wolfhounds game I'd like to see him on the bench. I'd imagine that that's Kidney's plan as well.

Anyway, is it only these three players you have a problem with cause if so then 21/24 ain't too bad!


My problem with Kidney isn't the team or squad he picks, it's our style of play that annoys me more. I'd love to see a world class backs coach in there.

profitius

I've defended Kidney on many occasions. Sometimes the criticism is a little over the top.

Its make or break time for Kidney now. If the team isn't moving forward then he is not the man for the job. There are issues to be addressed. The biggest issue is the Irish back play but at least Gaffney is gone now. Its a massive concern though. There might be an improvement but a specialist backs coach is still needed. A good one this time. The standard of play the Irish team has produced in the last few seasons has been negative and woeful sh!t. Lesser teams are able to drag Ireland down to their level so we end up having to bludgeon our way to victory over the likes of Italy.

Also he needs to pick the best players and not be too conservative. Lets remember he was picking players like Sexton for the A team when he was well down the Leinster pecking order and picked Donnacha Ryan when he could hardly get a look in in Munster.

The jury is still out. Its time to perform or change the management. I think thats a fair way of looking at things.

ed7890

desertcircus wrote: »

Craig Gilroy is on fire but can't get near a green jersey while Zebo is a Wolfhound.

Zebo isn't on the wolfhounds.

Tox56

bleg wrote: »

I did say "pretty much."


And yea I'd have Earls ahead of Fitz any day. Earls has proven himself internationally and is being played out of position at the moment, Fitz hasn't unfortunately. Though if he goes well in the Wolfhounds game I'd like to see him on the bench. I'd imagine that that's Kidney's plan as well.

Anyway, is it only these three players you have a problem with cause if so then 21/24 ain't too bad!


My problem with Kidney isn't the team or squad he picks, it's our style of play that annoys me more. I'd love to see a world class backs coach in there.

There's also Paddy Wallace in there, no EOM (and as a result no natural 13) in there, TOL in Wolfhounds with no Marshall, Fitz needing to prove himself (pointless) and thus taking the place of other capable wings (Gilroy for example).

It's just a series of hard to understand selections. I will though reserve complete judgement until the Matchday squad is announced.

Teferi

leakyboots wrote: »

Bravo. Not a ball been kicked, the squad for the first game hasn't been announced yet, but yeah, let's get rid.

To be fair, you can predict with some degree of accuracy how this years 6N will go - stumble by Italy and Scotland unconvincingly, beat England because it's Paddys Day and we love putting in a performance against the Auld Enemy, steamrolled by France and a loss to Wales by 5 - 7 points. I hope I am wrong.

On the squads announcement - Kidney has told us nothing with this selection, as per usual. We'll have to wait and see until the first match day 22 is announced to get a better reading of his thinking.

Teferi

profitius wrote: »

I've defended Kidney on many occasions. Sometimes the criticism is a little over the top.

Its make or break time for Kidney now. If the team isn't moving forward then he is not the man for the job. There are issues to be addressed. The biggest issue is the Irish back play but at least Gaffney is gone now. Its a massive concern though. There might be an improvement but a specialist backs coach is still needed. A good one this time. The standard of play the Irish team has produced in the last few seasons has been negative and woeful sh!t. Lesser teams are able to drag Ireland down to their level so we end up having to bludgeon our way to victory over the likes of Italy.

Also he needs to pick the best players and not be too conservative. Lets remember he was picking players like Sexton for the A team when he was well down the Leinster pecking order and picked Donnacha Ryan when he could hardly get a look in in Munster.

The jury is still out. Its time to perform or change the management. I think thats a fair way of looking at things.

This is a good, unbiased post. I agree.

.ak

Not sure if this has been quoted, but just clarifies his Wolfhound selection.

Commenting on the announcement, Ireland Coach Declan Kidney said, “The Wolfhounds game gives myself and the other coaches one final chance to give games to players to see possible options before we settle on our match day 22 for the opening game. It also gives us the opportunity to have a closer look in training at some of the younger players, rather than bringing in more experienced players, who are very much still in the frame for selection.

There have been some strong performances by players with the Provinces going really well. It always gives the squad a good boost when we have teams with players playing well in Europe before we step back up into the international scene.”

Talking about the start of the RBS 6 Nations Championship, Kidney said, “It’s a new tournament for us and for everybody involved, so irrespective of the highs and lows of the World Cup, it is a fresh and exciting challenge for us. The tournament begins what is big year for us, with a three test tour to New Zealand to come in June and ranking points all important for the Rugby World Cup in 2015, but the Six Nations always stands out as high point.”

Careful Now

Calm down people. No point in radical changes. Need to gradually integrate new people in. We all want changes but no harm in having few experienced players in the squad to show the younger players what its all about. Of the likely team that will start against Wales only ross, poc and darcy will prb not be around for next WC. Ideally they will make a 2/3 changes to side during 6n to lower age profile of squad and then try and beat NZ in 1 test their backyard during summer.

shuffol

You can argue all day long about whether the players picked are the best but one thing this squad does is send out all the wrong messages. In the future he should just name the squad at the start of the season, all these silly pro 12 and HC games are meaningless anyway.

JRant

profitius wrote: »

I've defended Kidney on many occasions. Sometimes the criticism is a little over the top.

Its make or break time for Kidney now. If the team isn't moving forward then he is not the man for the job. There are issues to be addressed. The biggest issue is the Irish back play but at least Gaffney is gone now. Its a massive concern though. There might be an improvement but a specialist backs coach is still needed. A good one this time. The standard of play the Irish team has produced in the last few seasons has been negative and woeful sh!t. Lesser teams are able to drag Ireland down to their level so we end up having to bludgeon our way to victory over the likes of Italy.

Also he needs to pick the best players and not be too conservative. Lets remember he was picking players like Sexton for the A team when he was well down the Leinster pecking order and picked Donnacha Ryan when he could hardly get a look in in Munster.

The jury is still out. Its time to perform or change the management. I think thats a fair way of looking at things.

Spot on.
people seem annoyed by the selection of the aul favourites not the younger lads getting a chance even at WH level. It's time for DK to sh*t or get off the pot as far as I'm concerned. We have the players now for a fast pace game not the 10 man stick it up the jumper stuff.
It's a bit like the Spanish football team coach picking a majority of Barca players and sending them out to play like Stoke!

Moflojo

This must be kind of what it feels like to be a Blackburn Rovers fan at the moment?

(An actual fan that is, one that supports the team nomatter what. Bunch of moaners whinging about the manager and team selection getting more column inches than those who just enjoy the simple pleasures of following their team.)

Anyway, I'll reserve judgement until the bloody tournament gets underway. This 'soccer' attitude of ranting on about the manager is getting on my tits.

irishbucsfan

I think people just need something to moan about.

This isn't the 6 nations squad. Nothing to see here.

EDIT: Actually the thread title should be changed.

vinny chase

Moflojo wrote: »

This must be kind of what it feels like to be a Blackburn Rovers fan at the moment?

(An actual fan that is, one that supports the team nomatter what. Bunch of moaners whinging about the manager and team selection getting more column inches than those who just enjoy the simple pleasures of following their team.)

Anyway, I'll reserve judgement until the bloody tournament gets underway. This 'soccer' attitude of ranting on about the manager is getting on my tits.

A rugby forum is probably not the right place for you so.

Tox56

Moflojo wrote: »

This must be kind of what it feels like to be a Blackburn Rovers fan at the moment?

(An actual fan that is, one that supports the team nomatter what. Bunch of moaners whinging about the manager and team selection getting more column inches than those who just enjoy the simple pleasures of following their team.)

Anyway, I'll reserve judgement until the bloody tournament gets underway. This 'soccer' attitude of ranting on about the manager is getting on my tits.

Now that we have had a while to digest it, I think everyone is calming down a bit.

But people's initial reactions have to be expected.

You see: "Ireland 6 Nations Squad:" and then that group of players, what do you think the reaction would be.

Now that everyone has gone through it properly, judgement is being reserved for now.

jm08

totallegend wrote: »

To be honest, I'm not bothered about who was/was not included in the senior squad; Kidney's innate conservatism and loyalty meant a wholesale dumping of players was never on the cards. One assumes that the door is open for Wolfhounds to be promoted and for a lot of the younger guys, an 'A' game will benefit them.

I'm more outraged about the Wolfhounds squad and who is not included in that, specifically Paul Marshall and to a lesser extent, Craig Gilroy. At least Gilroy is being kept out by Dave Kearney, a young guy with some potential. Marshall has fallen victim to DK's bizarre obsession with TOL and it's not good enough.

I hope with all my heart that the Wolfhounds game acts like a genuine trial for guys to be promoted to the senior squad. It's a pity the guys above won't get a chance to shine.

There is also the fact that the Rabo Direct games are going to be played during the 6Ns and since there is little likelihood of Paul Marshall even benching ahead of Boss or Reddan, and considering that Ulster don't have a stockpile of scrumhalfs, his club might prefer to keep him.

Similar situation with regard to Hagan, Archer & Gilroy and lots of others of the younger player - they will be needed by their clubs during the 6Ns to play in the Rabo. In fact this would be a real opportunity for Ulster to securing a spot in the playoffs.

As regards Luke, at this moment in time he is injured and there is a good chance he won't have played a competitive game of rugby since Christmas, getting a game with the Wolfhounds would give him a chance to compete for a spot in the 6Ns. Don't forget, Tommy Bowe missed out on the world cup in '07, played really well in the Wolfhounds the following 6Ns (displacing Shane Horgan) and Bowe has been one of the first names on the team sheet since then.

aquane69

Will the wolfhounds game be on tv?

totallegend

In the hope of moving on with our lives, I'm going to name the starting XV I'd like to see for the Wolfhounds:

15: Duffy
14: Kearney
13: O'Malley
12: Spence
11: Fitzgerald
10: Madigan
9: Boss
8: Ruddock
7: Henry
6: McLaughlin
5: Tuohy
4: Toner
3: Loughney
2: Varley
1: Wilkinson

Not a bad XV really.

sensitive1960

Leinster7 wrote: »

Here's a question or two?

Do you think Deccie watches the provincial games? Or the same ones we do?
Or does he just watch the Munster matches?

5 Ulster players (plus 1 Osprey)
12 Leinster players
6 Munster players

Bloody Munster bias!

Tox56

sensitive1960 wrote: »

5 Ulster players (plus 1 Osprey)
12 Leinster players
6 Munster players

Bloody Munster bias!

His point was that 6 Munster players was too many.

But let's just get over this, wait for the matchday squad.

JRant

totallegend wrote: »

In the hope of moving on with our lives, I'm going to name the starting XV I'd like to see for the Wolfhounds:

15: Duffy
14: Kearney
13: O'Malley
12: Spence
11: Fitzgerald
10: Madigan
9: Boss
8: Ruddock
7: Henry
6: McLaughlin
5: Tuohy
4: Toner
3: Loughney
2: Varley
1: Wilkinson

Not a bad XV really.

That's a seriously good team for the WH's. Now if we could just integrate the players into the senior team over a 1-2 year period we'd be in rude health.

Leinster7

I had 4 Munster players in my 22. It would've been 5 if Ronan hadnt gotten injured.

1. POC
2. O'Mahony (bench),
3. Murray (bench) - awful box kicking all season so far...hate that rubbish.
4. ROG (bench)

I had more Ulster players in my 22 but hey I would select players on form, mad isn't it?

Good news is lads....that Deccie has 15months left on his contract! So the new coach will only have 2 seasons to prepare us for the WC and the Lions tour getting in the middle of that.

Well done Phillip Browne

NikNak8

Tox56 wrote: »

The fact he didn't pick a natural 13 in his squad means someone HAS to be played out of position. I cling to hope that EOM will be called up from Wolfhounds, but I doubt he will walk into the starting 15.

As soon as EOM is starting key games for Leinster then your argument would have credence.

Foxtrol

This is like groundhog day. It’s been like this every squad announcement since at least the 2010 Autumn Internationals. After each announcement people post defending Kidney saying “wait and see”, “it’s not the final squad”, “he’s bringing young players in slowly” etc.

To be honest I’m probably just as bad as in the lead up to every announcement there’s a part of me that thinks this time Kidney will select a progressive balanced squad which rewards performance but it never comes to pass. We all need to accept that Kidney is Kidney and until the day he leaves we’re going to be stuck in this dire cycle.

tolosenc

NikNak8 wrote: »

As soon as EOM is starting key games for Leinster then your argument would have credence.

BOD played for Ireland before he was established at Leinster.

Your point is invalid.

geekington

Something not mentioned yet but should be considered when looking ahead to the International year, is that World Cup Seedings will be decided based on the top 8 in the world rankings on the 31/12/2012. While planning for 2015 is vital, I think he plans on doing this next year when the seedings is complete.

Worst case scenario is we drop to 9 in the world and aren't seeded at the world cup, best case scenario is we are best Northern Hempishpere team i.e. 4th in the world and win a top seeding at the world cup.

Perhaps its fair to at least consider this before we slate him for not picking a young team. I am very disappointed with the selections but if he can grind out the results required to finish the year at number 4 in the world we will then be in a fantastic position to plan for 2015 knowing we will be top seeds.

I am not trying to justify certain selections as there are players in the wolfhounds who deserve a starting place in the 6n but there is logic to what Deccie is doing - i.e. picking guys who have international experience and can get a result in tight matches.

I think it is a massive risk as it does leave him in a posiiton that if we aren't successful this year, his position does become untenable!

vinny chase

NikNak8 wrote: »

As soon as EOM is starting key games for Leinster then your argument would have credence.

Conor Murray was brought to a World Cup despite never having started a Heineken Cup match.

Donncha O'Callaghan is outside the current Munster first choice fifteen (he'll start this weekend because of injuries) and has been all season, and yet he's selected ahead of three players who are playing regular rugby at a level superior to his in Tuohy, McCarthy & Toner.

jasper11

can we swap wolfhounds for 1st team?:)

does anybody know how many times do players breakthrough fro wolfhounds into 6 nations team? i do think he will have fitzy earmarked promoted once he gets through saxons game. also the likes of nagle probably get demoted and only there to get feel for international set up. I HOPE.. kidney does throw a few curveballs in over the yrs like these.

jasper11

can we swap wolfhounds for 1st team?:)

does anybody know how many times do players breakthrough fro wolfhounds into 6 nations team? i do think he will have fitzy earmarked promoted once he gets through saxons game. also the likes of nagle probably get demoted and only there to get feel for international set up. I HOPE.. kidney does throw a few curveballs in over the yrs like these.

Fireball07

Came on expecting meltdown and I wasn't disappointed


But yeah I'm quite disappointed. I wasn't expecting massive changes but maybe include a 13?? Discard Cullen, Wallace, Jennings who were only bit-part players anyway, and DOC aswell and bring in Tuohy, O'Malley, Henry/POM. Bring back the in-form Fitz. Put Marshall in the Wolfhounds squad. That's not too much to ask imo.

Hopefully the final squad involves some promotion of deserving players and not just TOL brought back to start at 9.

Still, all we can do now is get behind the team.

Flincher wrote: »

It begs the question, what did O'Callaghan and Wallace see Deccie do during that U-19 World Cup?

Ah to be fair, DOC has probably deserved a start for the majority of his career. Now is the only time I'd be willing to see him drop from the panel. As for Wallace...if he starts at 12, I don't have a problem. If he ends on the bench, I'll be very angry.

Leinster7 wrote: »

I had 4 Munster players in my 22. It would've been 5 if Ronan hadnt gotten injured.

1. POC
2. O'Mahony (bench),
3. Murray (bench) - awful box kicking all season so far...hate that rubbish.
4. ROG (bench)

I had more Ulster players in my 22 but hey I would select players on form, mad isn't it?

Good news is lads....that Deccie has 15months left on his contract! So the new coach will only have 2 seasons to prepare us for the WC and the Lions tour getting in the middle of that.

Well done Phillip Browne

How about Donnacha Ryan? And how could Ronan and POM both be in the squad?

Ulster players for me- Best, Court, Tuohy, Trimble. I'd have POM ahead of Henry and unless you think Marshall should start, I don't see where you're getting more in the 22. Just saying.


The other thing is Murray's box-kicking is actually good. It's one of the strongest aspects of his game, and he is the best box-kicker in Ireland. He has the knack of making them hang for ages. So much better than TOL/Reddan.

JRant

bleg wrote: »

bamboozle wrote: »

on this season's form who do you think are playing better?

Fitz, Touhy, Toner

or
Earls, Cullen, DOC

I did say "pretty much."


And yea I'd have Earls ahead of Fitz any day. Earls has proven himself internationally and is being played out of position at the moment, Fitz hasn't unfortunately. Though if he goes well in the Wolfhounds game I'd like to see him on the bench. I'd imagine that that's Kidney's plan as well.

Anyway, is it only these three players you have a problem with cause if so then 21/24 ain't too bad!


My problem with Kidney isn't the team or squad he picks, it's our style of play that annoys me more. I'd love to see a world class backs coach in there.

Ah but there in lies the problem. You can't have a great back line with free flowing rugby if you put the wrong players on the pitch. If you keep picking TOL, DOC and Leamy then it's quite obvious what type of game your planning.

bleg

I don't agree with Kidney so he should be fired.

vinny chase

bleg wrote: »

I don't agree with Kidney so he should be fired.

You've made the same point about three times now. It wasn't funny the first time.

Do you think the Irish team have progressed of late?

Do you think Kidney has included the form players in this squad?

JRant

bleg wrote: »

I don't agree with Kidney so he should be fired.

Really, why the sudden change of heart?

totallegend

Are Kidney's hands tied to some extent by the central contract system operated by the IRFU? For example, O'Callaghan is, by common consensus I think, extremely lucky to be named today when he has lost his place at Munster and there are a number of good locks fighting for a place. The thing is, with O'Callaghan holding an international contract until 2014, the IRFU are losing money if he's at home with his feet up while the squad is training.

You would have to imagine that DK would be delighted if a few of the guys retired from internationals to concentrate on their clubs, he doesn't seem to like the hard decisions of dropping players to whom he has been loyal.

Has it ever happened in Ireland whereby someone has said, I'd rather just play on for Leinster/Munster/Ulster?

bleg

vinny chase wrote: »

You've made the same point about three times now. It wasn't funny the first time.

Do you think the Irish team have progressed of late?

Do you think Kidney has included the form players in this squad?

Not trying to be funny, just trying to give some perspective. By and large the form players are where they should be. Personally I would make 5 or 6 changes to both squads overall but Kidney has it 90-95% right. Putting together an excellent style and gameplan would be great.

Saying that though I'd settle for us winning the tournament even if we play badly.

bamboozle

bleg wrote: »

I did say "pretty much."


And yea I'd have Earls ahead of Fitz any day. Earls has proven himself internationally and is being played out of position at the moment, Fitz hasn't unfortunately. Though if he goes well in the Wolfhounds game I'd like to see him on the bench. I'd imagine that that's Kidney's plan as well.

Anyway, is it only these three players you have a problem with cause if so then 21/24 ain't too bad!


My problem with Kidney isn't the team or squad he picks, it's our style of play that annoys me more. I'd love to see a world class backs coach in there.

fair enough, but i do think Earls has not proven himself provincially nevermind internationally as a 13, dont forget both were Lions tourists in '09...only one of them started in the tests and it wasnt Earls...

agree with you re style of play, EOS might have also been conservative but he made our back line purrr

Fireball07

totallegend wrote: »

Are Kidney's hands tied to some extent by the central contract system operated by the IRFU? For example, O'Callaghan is, by common consensus I think, extremely lucky to be named today when he has lost his place at Munster and there are a number of good locks fighting for a place. The thing is, with O'Callaghan holding an international contract until 2014, the IRFU are losing money if he's at home with his feet up while the squad is training.

You would have to imagine that DK would be delighted if a few of the guys retired from internationals to concentrate on their clubs, he doesn't seem to like the hard decisions of dropping players to whom he has been loyal.

Has it ever happened in Ireland whereby someone has said, I'd rather just play on for Leinster/Munster/Ulster?

I don't know if it's ever happened before, certainly can't think of it off the top of my head but I can't see someone like DOC ever doing that. It would be against his nature to just give up trying for a spot. He obviously believes he's good enough, and if he's not, it's not his fault that he's getting picked.

GerM

bleg wrote: »

Not trying to be funny, just trying to give some perspective. By and large the form players are where they should be. Personally I would make 5 or 6 changes to both squads overall but Kidney has it 90-95% right. Putting together an excellent style and gameplan would be great.

He potentially has it 95% right but you'd change 25% of the squad?

GerM

No, it’s not an official 6N squad but does anyone honestly think that those not selected in the 24 man training squad won’t form the match day squad? It’s a clear indication of the probables with the rest fighting it out for the scraps. With the possible exception of the back row bench spot, I can’t see anyone else breaking into the panel. Those selected for the Wolfhounds are playing to be next in line. If it was a chance for guys to play off for a spot against one another, we’d see the likes of DOC and Jennings selected to justify their spots in the main panel. Those in the Wolfhounds are playing to be the injury replacements.

I cannot fathom Gilroy not making the Wolfhounds squad. A truly bizarre call. Also, although I have been critical of him, Paul Marshall is a major impact player when there’s nothing to lose. I don’t understand the failure to select him. Not surprised he was omitted given he has left these shores but a nice surprise would have been Ryan Caldwell who has been playing great stuff for Bath. Not a real complaint though as it seems locks have been stepping up their performances all over the place recently.

jasper11

I have had time to digest this and now feel kidney has got it right - additional players will be sent back to the provences and 3/4 players will be promoted from wolfhounds.

todays announcement is meaningless really for us to argue over. kidney is a cute hore as we know so hold tough till after saxons game guys.

bleg

GerM wrote: »

He potentially has it 95% right but you'd change 25% of the squad?

Read my post again.

Fireball07

jasper11 wrote: »

I have had time to digest this and now feel kidney has got it right - additional players will be sent back to the provences and 3/4 players will be promoted from wolfhounds.

todays announcement is meaningless really for us to argue over. kidney is a cute hore as we know so hold tough till after saxons game guys.

I think we realise that but people still have problems with some of the 24 players- Cullen, Wallace, DOC. And the lack of a 13.

Like Ger says, the promoted players are unlikely to be near the 22 man squad anyway.

jm08

vinny chase wrote: »

Conor Murray was brought to a World Cup despite never having started a Heineken Cup match.

Donncha O'Callaghan is outside the current Munster first choice fifteen (he'll start this weekend because of injuries) and has been all season, and yet he's selected ahead of three players who are playing regular rugby at a level superior to his in Tuohy, McCarthy & Toner.

A two month national training camp would have helped Conor Murray made the world cup, not to mention a few warm-up games beside an outhalf he played regularly with.

Another way of looking at that is that Donncha O'Callaghan is more practicsed at being an impact sub. He has got a substantial amount of time at Heineken Cup level as a sub, not to mention a couple of games at international level which are all part of this season.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

A two month national training camp would have helped Conor Murray made the world cup, not to mention a few warm-up games beside an outhalf he played regularly with.

D. Ryan also made the world cup squad with 1 HEC start to his name.

Another way of looking at that is that Donncha O'Callaghan is more practicsed at being an impact sub. He has got a substantial amount of time at Heineken Cup level as a sub, not to mention a couple of games at international level which are all part of this season.

If by impact you mean a negative one then yes. He tends to sulk on the sideline then come on and run around like a headless chicken becoming an even greater penalty magnet than normal.