IFA Sellout

theaceofspies

This makes for interesting reading if you are a small farmer who faces a DAS cut in 2012.
Looks like your SFP might be going south too if the IFA have their way with EU Agriculture Commissioner Dacian Ciolos.

http://www.independent.ie/farming/news-features/farmers-warned-to-be-wary-of-land-price-bubble-2993704.html

A careful analysis of the article and the "further measures" being considered has all the hallmarks of extending the revised 2012 DAS criteria to the SFP as well; the roadmap is in place now. Minister Coveney is letting the IFA come up with the plans on where the cut falls. Good work lads.

IrishLad2012

Don't know what to make of that. Like the sound of rental prices reducing,their crazy at the moment.
What does this mean for new farm entrants who want to get into farming after 2011,will this be possible as they have no reference year.

theaceofspies

Exactly. The CAP pie is x amount of money and the IFA want to ensure that the Class A of IFA member get as much of posssible of that pie as possible at the expense of the small farmer and in the case you have highlighted the new entrant. A form of closed shop if you like.
Classic Irish mentality of looking after your your own and let the rest go and swing for it. The mentality of the FF tent hasn't gone away.

Tipp Man

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion from the linked article

Also for new entrants it is almost certain that there will be some form of scheme to allow them get on the ladder

rancher

IrishLad2012 wrote: »

Don't know what to make of that. Like the sound of rental prices reducing,their crazy at the moment.
What does this mean for new farm entrants who want to get into farming after 2011,will this be possible as they have no reference year.

On page five of the journal you will see where ciolos refers to a package of support for new entrants. I'd be confident you will be able to avail of this package on production of proof that you are a 'genuine' active farmer especially if it was not possible to claim in 2011. The 2011 rule was brought in at the request of IFA to stop sofa farmers taking back their land in 2014 in order to own the entitlements.

5live

IrishLad2012 wrote: »

Don't know what to make of that. Like the sound of rental prices reducing,their crazy at the moment.
What does this mean for new farm entrants who want to get into farming after 2011,will this be possible as they have no reference year.

There are provisions in place for new entrants to qualify. If you are defined as a farmer and take over qualifying land then you will be elegible to apply for SFP. I asked that question at a recent meeting and was assured of that.

The important thing is to make sure any land not qualifying for the current SFP is claimed for in 2014

Wendell Gee

I can confirm that there will be arrangements for new entrants, both in the reference year of 2014 and beyond, under the current proposals. In addition there is the 20% top up of entitlements in the first five years post establishemnt, a fund in Pillar 2 for a new entrant/young farmer on-farm investment scheme, and Installation IAd , which is available in most EU countires still, and has been suspended in Ireland due to domestic budgetary pressures.
IFA have at no time sought to deter new entrants from recieving entitlements. The 2011 rule was the Commission's reaction to irish objections to a reference year set in the future, and would curb repatriation of land by couch potatoes, and prevent speculative investment by big business, which did happen in Eastern Europe post EU accession. never forget we are all informed by our own experiences. In the Commissioners' case, it means he reemebers the evolution of the former Soviet bloc economies oward and within the EU, and the effect this had on their farm systems. In your case, it seems there is a hostility towards IFA.
On Wednesday evening, the Taoiseach joined the Commisssioner and Minister Coveney atan IFA dinner. The Commisssioner was struck by the impact Agriculture has politicaly in this country, which is prettty unique. It's not party political either- Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen both attended such functions in their time as Taoisigh.
The reality is that the CAP talks, while evolving, will be centred around the Commissioners' proposals. IFA will state their case, as will Macra, ICSA and ICMSA. If you have styrong feelings on certain issues, get in there and get your point across. The process only works if people like yourself get in their and push hard.

Wendell Gee

At the AGM, Coveney confirmed significant changes in the DAs cuts, which will cost millions to enact, but will ensure that farmers on DAS home farms renting good land will not lose their payment. He said that he had no problem paying farmers who only keep enough stock to trigger payments when finances allow, but made no apologies for prioritising more active and productive farmers when cuts had to be made. IFA were lobbying forthe DAS adjustments that have now been made since the Tuesday evening of the budget.

rancher

Wendell Gee wrote: »

At the AGM, Coveney confirmed significant changes in the DAs cuts, which will cost millions to enact, but will ensure that farmers on DAS home farms renting good land will not lose their payment. He said that he had no problem paying farmers who only keep enough stock to trigger payments when finances allow, but made no apologies for prioritising more active and productive farmers when cuts had to be made. IFA were lobbying forthe DAS adjustments that have now been made since the Tuesday evening of the budget.

Good to hear someone else flying the flag for IFA, I too was at the AGM and was very impressed by the whole event and especially Ciolos attending the dinner, also Enda Kenny and Simon Coveney not only attending the dinner, but also staying on the whole night talking to the farmers..... different times.
As for aceofspies, I have given up reacting to his/her hostility.... waste of time, as was said at the AGM many times by retiring chairmen about those not involved in IFA ' Its their loss'

supersean1999

im leaning towards cancelling my membership, all the ifa seem interested in protecting is the big sfp earners,surely a change is needed to allow lower earners the chance to become more productive and to catch up,

5live

supersean1999 wrote: »

im leaning towards cancelling my membership, all the ifa seem interested in protecting is the big sfp earners,surely a change is needed to allow lower earners the chance to become more productive and to catch up,

But do you bring such issues up at meetings?

supersean1999

5live wrote: »

But do you bring such issues up at meetings?

aaahhhh yes i did, its quiet obviously the old system had major flaws,

5live

supersean1999 wrote: »

aaahhhh yes i did, its quiet obviously the old system had major flaws,

Such as?

I'm not looking for an argument. I'm an IFA member and officer and am surprised by a lot of the s*it that gets thrown at the accociation. If IFA fight on an issue they are useless and only looking out for *insert grouping* and if they dont then they are useless because they dont look out for *insert grouping*.

As far as i am aware its one man one vote. If you have an issue you can bring it up yourself or get an officer to do it for you. The decision is decided by policies voted for by the members, you and me and all the others. If there are policies you dont agree with you have the right/responsibility to bring it to the attention of the executives and try to change them. It can be done. I have been involved in such actions.

It is not perfect by any means but what organisation is.

David brown

Tipp Man wrote: »

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion from the linked article

Also for new entrants it is almost certain that there will be some form of scheme to allow them get on the ladder

+1

supersean1999

5live wrote: »

Such as?

I'm not looking for an argument. I'm an IFA member and officer and am surprised by a lot of the s*it that gets thrown at the accociation. If IFA fight on an issue they are useless and only looking out for *insert grouping* and if they dont then they are useless because they dont look out for *insert grouping*.

As far as i am aware its one man one vote. If you have an issue you can bring it up yourself or get an officer to do it for you. The decision is decided by policies voted for by the members, you and me and all the others. If there are policies you dont agree with you have the right/responsibility to bring it to the attention of the executives and try to change them. It can be done. I have been involved in such actions.

It is not perfect by any means but what organisation is.

,

are you telling me basing farm payments on 12 years ago is fair, for christ sake, thats what the ifa want, KEEP as much as the sfp the way it is, maybe im wrong. it should be a more even spread of everything, area , productivity , greening, with properly accesed farms to see what a farm can actually farm ,and if you dont reach a certain level you get reduced payments, i know its complicated so we will see how it turns out,

rancher

supersean1999 wrote: »

im leaning towards cancelling my membership, all the ifa seem interested in protecting is the big sfp earners,surely a change is needed to allow lower earners the chance to become more productive and to catch up,

If everyone worked as hard in the reference years as those 'big sfp earners', that 1.3bn pie thats up for grabs would be at least 2.5bn.
Whoever was farming the lower earners land let a huge opportunity slip.

supersean1999

rancher wrote: »

If everyone worked as hard in the reference years as those 'big sfp earners', that 1.3bn pie thats up for grabs would be at least 2.5bn.
Whoever was farming the lower earners land let a huge opportunity slip.

well in my case somebody old, close to retiring, that used to have 300 ewes and 15 cows, but decreased numbers with age, cant speak for everyone else, thankfully it seems the changes will come from europe not the ifa "protecting big earners" so we will see, any change and ill gain and the sooner the better. at the end of the day its human nature to look after ones own needs

rancher

supersean1999 wrote: »

well in my case somebody old, close to retiring, that used to have 300 ewes and 15 cows, but decreased numbers with age, cant speak for everyone else, thankfully it seems the changes will come from europe not the ifa "protecting big earners" so we will see, any change and ill gain and the sooner the better. at the end of the day its human nature to look after ones own needs

In my area young qualified farmers are getting 120 per acre from national reserve, is theflat rate payment going to be any better.... don't think so

5live

supersean1999 wrote: »

,

are you telling me basing farm payments on 12 years ago is fair, for christ sake, thats what the ifa want, KEEP as much as the sfp the way it is, maybe im wrong. it should be a more even spread of everything, area , productivity , greening, with properly accesed farms to see what a farm can actually farm ,and if you dont reach a certain level you get reduced payments, i know its complicated so we will see how it turns out,

Where did i say basing sfp on what happened 12 years ago was fair

I am in favour of levelling payments, partly because it will mean a few bob more for me;) but mostly because it is the right thing to do. I feel sorry for those about to lose but how long must the present system be set in stone for them? 5 years? 20? 50? There are a couple of hundred thousand acres that have NO payment, for whatever reason. Should they be permanently excluded? No imo.

As to the IFA stance on the reforms, it is a bargaining position and has to be recognised as such. They are using this as leverage to bring the system more to our favour eg with 2011 as a reference year and topups to new entrants. Unfortunately, some unbalancing will result but the whole new system will favour what farmers are doing now rather than skewing payments towards those that were in the position to maxamise their payments during the reference years.

As to having minimum stocking rates to recieve payments, i cant argue with that. But check out the reaction when an increase in minimum stocking density was brought in last budget. Uproar. Now the IFA negotiated on issues and, as reported in yesterdays Farming Indo, got some much needed concessions.

There is a long way to go in these negotiations and as every country is against the level of greening and compulsory set-aside in tillage, there will be a signifigant change in the levels currently proposed imo