Sorry Mods - But I had to post this here - its so UNREAL! Noonan and unemployment!

jimthemental

I left because I could not get a decent wage and work in the sector I got educated for (chemical analysis). Within a week of touchdown here I was working in a pub, a month or so later I was working as a lab technician in Melbourne. Noonan must be having a laugh, I was trying to get this work in Ireland for over two years and I only got called for about 3 interviews due to my lack of experience. It's heartbreaking for graduates or tradesmen to see all of their training going down the toilet because there's no work. Some people are going away to travel but for myself and almost everyone I have talked to here in Australia it is for work.

steve9859

Personally I have no issue with what Noonan said. Whereas I have no doubt that the job situation was what made up many people's mind to leave, everyone who I know who has left is having a great time (a sample of 12 or 13 friends now in Australia, New Zealand or London). The job search gave people the nudge that they needed to leave, but in my experience, there wasnt exactly much reluctance

There are only a couple of those 12 or 13 people who would have emigrated no matter what even if they had had a job in Ireland - the rest would fall into the definition of forced emigrants. But there is not a single one who is not loving their new lifestyle, and at this point I am not sure that any will be going home.

I think emigration, at least for a few years, is in the mind of most young people in Ireland anyway. I think it was more that the Celtic Tiger dampened down the natural emigration level due to the number of unsustainable jobs created for a short period in Ireland

(thats only my opinion - I am not taking my small statistical sample and suggesting it is FACT, as is a habit of boardsies!!)

Biggins

policarp wrote: »

Post of the Day.
Congrats Biggins.

Yi Harr? :pac:
I've been called many things - but thats a new one!

miguelk

I listened to the interview and what he said has been taken out of context altogether.

(that being said it was a terrible idea saying what he did as he was running a high risk to cause an "outrage", which is quite easy these days)

He gave 2 reasons that people leave the country. One being lifestyle choice. Which he backed up by giving examples, and which he wouldn't consider as "emmigration".

He also said others emmigrate due to the downturn/lack of work/building trade drying up.

14 pages of "outrage"! I've friends/relations who had to leave for employment reasons, I empathise with people in that position, but this is a sensitive topic that the masses were ready to scream blue murder over regardless of the truth in what he said.

Biggins

I keep hearing this out of context excuse - but not one person has produced a recording of their supposed version they heard that proves it!

The proof is in the pudding, please produce it or get out of Dodge!

miguelk

Biggins wrote: »

I keep hearing this out of context excuse - but not one person has produced a recording of their supposed version they heard that proves it!

The proof is in the pudding, please produce it or get out of Dodge!

I listened to it and formed my own opinion.

With the quality of journalism these days I'd advise anyone to do the same on similar topics and make their own mind up.

"go get me an audio clip for proof or else I'm right"...I've never heard the like, go get it yourself!

Biggins

miguelk wrote: »

I listened to it and formed my own opinion.

With the quality of journalism these days I'd advise anyone to do the same on similar topics and make their own mind up.

"go get me an audio clip for proof or else I'm right"...I've never heard the like, go get it yourself!

I see, not even a link.

Right!

starbelgrade

There's a large degree of truth in what Noonan said.

Did it tell the full story? Not quite - there's more to it than that.

Should he have said what he did? It was probably not the best move politically speaking, but I'd prefer to hear a politician give an opinion - be it right or wrong - than to fanny about & skirt around issues without ever answering the questions.

Is the reaction to this over the top? A little bit, yes. It's a topic that deserves discussion, but as with all debates, there's little point in throwing hysterics into the mix.

miguelk

starbelgrade wrote: »

There's a large degree of truth in what Noonan said.

Did it tell the full story? Not quite - there's more to it than that.

Should he have said what he did? It was probably not the best move politically speaking, but I'd prefer to hear a politician give an opinion - be it right or wrong - than to fanny about & skirt around issues without ever answering the questions.

Is the reaction to this over the top? A little bit, yes. It's a topic that deserves discussion, but as with all debates, there's little point in throwing hysterics into the mix.

A1 belgrade, couldn't have put it better.

davet82

I reckon the numbers would be double the current emigration numbers if were not for the shackles of negitive equity keeping them here but that is stating the obvious...

How the hell can Noonan actually and come out and make such a stupid comment, its insensitve to people waving children and grandchildren off at airports around the country. I had aunts and uncles who went to canada for a few years in the 80s, they're still there...

Others restrictions include getting the money to get on flights ect, give a free ticket off this island and see the how many take it up.

Yahew

miguelk wrote: »

A1 belgrade, couldn't have put it better.

Give the man some thanks, then :-)

I agree. People say they want truthful opinions - really? Lets say that Noonan was right, and the rate of Irish native emigration was less than double the boom, would he be forgiven? He wasnt far off.

On the Journal.ie pages they are talking about typical lying politicians, but that is exactly what Noonan isnt. He's a straight talker. And I wonder how many people would appreciated straight talkers during the boom, had any politician, left or right, made millage out of massively overpriced property. I bet had any senior politician said that, he would be blamed for talking down the market.

Yahew

miguelk wrote: »

Others restrictions include getting the money to get on flights ect, give a free ticket off this island and see the how many take it up.

Really not an issue these days.

Biggins

starbelgrade wrote: »

...Is the reaction to this over the top? A little bit, yes. It's a topic that deserves discussion, but as with all debates, there's little point in throwing hysterics into the mix.

Hysterics?

More like the boffin once again has up-set people!
This time, instead of a single dead girls mother - its a whole lot of people!

* http://www.independent.ie/national-news/noonan-out-of-touch-with-painful-reality-say-emigrants-families-2995089.html

* http://www.independent.ie/national-news/family-fury-as-noonan-says-young-emigrate-for-lifestyle-2995083.html

Yahew

Biggins wrote: »

Hysterics?

More like the boffin once again has up-set people!
This time, instead of a dead girls mother - its a whole lot of people!

* http://www.independent.ie/national-news/noonan-out-of-touch-with-painful-reality-say-emigrants-families-2995089.html

* http://www.independent.ie/national-news/family-fury-as-noonan-says-young-emigrate-for-lifestyle-2995083.html

What meaningless drivel

Ms Fay, from Drumconrath, Co Meath, has seen a son and daughter emigrate to Australia in the past 16 months. She said Mr Noonan simply did not understand the dire straits rural communities were in, nor the pain of having children on the other side of the world.


He's got a son in Canada.

davet82

Yahew wrote: »

Really not an issue these days.

maybe for you

Yahew

Most emigrants are not to the other side of the world anyway, which in the case of Eastern Canada/US is a half days flight.

Mr. Presentable

My experience? Of the six people I know who went to Australia in the last two years, five had jobs and the sixth was a stay at home mother. Obviously this is not everybody, but neither is it everybody leaving for work. Considering the amount of cash you have to have and the costs of relocating, you couldn't afford to go if you were on welfare..........

Yahew

davet82 wrote: »

maybe for you

For anybody who wants to travel abroad to get a job. If you are not getting a job you maybe cant go, if you are getting a job then the fare is not an issue. It is less than a train ticket to go to England.

Biggins

Yahew wrote: »

What meaningless drivel

Ms Fay, from Drumconrath, Co Meath, has seen a son and daughter emigrate to Australia in the past 16 months. She said Mr Noonan simply did not understand the dire straits rural communities were in, nor the pain of having children on the other side of the world.


He's got a son in Canada.

So you took one sentence and because of that, insulted their words and possible feelings being them?

Your a real gem!

If you have to leave for work and your mother expressed regret - would you insult her words too as "meaningless drivel" also?

Wow!

Yahew

Biggins wrote: »

So you took one sentence and because of that, insulted their words and possible feelings being them?

Your a real gem!

If you have to leave for work and your mother expressed regret - would you insult her words too as "meaningless drivel" also?

Wow!

I am an emigrant. I have lived in the US and now the UK. Get over it. FFS. Its not a big deal. Most Australian visas are short term, most people will come back. Some wont. In the case of Noonan's son in Canada he wont be coming back. An English girl I once dated here in England will not be coming back from Australia, and her parents dont seem perturbed - they visit every year. And 200K people emigrate from the UK every year.

The whine fest has to stop. Emigration is no big deal, even australia is a days journey away, the rest of Europe and Eastern US is half that distance. Travel is cheap. Skype is cheaper. It is not the 80's and it is certainly not the 50's.

Biggins

Yahew wrote: »

I am an emigrant...
...Get over it. FFS. Its not a big deal....
The whine fest has to stop. Emigration is no big deal...

I don't care if your an emigrant or not.

You openly insult parents expressing their pain in regard to having their child leave and you call their words "meaningless drivel"

Your a real fcuking rockstar you are!

Emigration is no big deal?
Tell that to the parents your too willing to fcuking insult!
Time to kop-yourself on and and gain some compassion and decency - instead of insulting parents that are hurting!

miguelk

Biggins wrote: »

So you took one sentence and because of that, insulted their words and possible feelings being them?

Your a real gem!

If you have to leave for work and your mother expressed regret - would you insult her words too as "meaningless drivel" also?

Wow!

We don't know the figures, but from this thread we have plenty of anicdotal evidence that it is the case that a number of Irish people have emmigrated for reasons other than it employment etc, i.e. a lifestyle choice.

So aside from Noonan not having the cop on to know that this is a sensitive issue, what exactly is your argument on the matter?*

*no link required for answer

Biggins

miguelk wrote: »

We don't know the figures, but from this thread we have plenty of anicdotal evidence that it is the case that a number of Irish people have emmigrated for reasons other than it employment etc, i.e. a lifestyle choice.

So aside from Noonan not having the cop on to know that this is a sensitive issue, what exactly is your argument on the matter?*

*no link required for answer

Hello!

I have quoted OFFICIAL figures alone in this thread.

My argument/thoughts is that Noonan is a deluded fool.
16,000 Irish people alone last year - OFFICIAL figures - applied for work numbers in Britain alone - and they sure as hell were going for employment reasons!
They didn't go to England alone - as well as other countries looking for work numbers, so they could go hiking and bike scrambling, etc!

A jump in figures, again to repeat, 50pc surge in the number of emigrants heading for Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Britain, the US and Germany by Irish folk.

Yahew

Biggins wrote: »

I don't care if your an emigrant or not.

You openly insult parents expressing their pain in regard to having their child leave and you call their words "meaningless drivel"

Your a real fcuking rockstar you are!

Emigration is no big deal?
Tell that to the parents your too willing to fcuking insult!
Time to kop-yourself on and and gain some compassion and decency - instead of insulting parents that are hurting!

My parents are the parents of emigrants, two of us. Big deal. Grow a pair. I just texted my mum - who is in Germany with my sibling, and will see them both in about 2 weeks in Ireland. Modern technology. The cost is £40.

The whole west of Ireland thing is a bit off anyway. Most graduates from the West will end up in Dublin, very few in Galway. Getting to Dublin from Mayo takes about the same time and effort as getting there from London.

Sure Australia is worse, but thats also a choice, as there are jobs in London and plenty of them.

Its all Joe Duffyish, and thats often true of threads started by the OP.

davet82

Yahew wrote: »

For anybody who wants to travel abroad to get a job. If you are not getting a job you maybe cant go, if you are getting a job then the fare is not an issue. It is less than a train ticket to go to England.

everyone circumstance is differnet so no point arguing how hard or easy it is

Crazy Horse 6

The gap between the elites like Noonan and the average paye worker in this country is vast.

Yahew

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

The gap between the elites like Noonan and the average paye worker in this country is vast.

Except he has offspring who are permanent immigrants.

OneArt

It was a lifestyle choice for me. If I'd really wanted I could've got a job in Ireland.

BUT with that said, I would not have minded staying in Ireland a few years longer. It just made sense to get out now. The high cost of living, cr@p public services and the constant doom and gloom on the news were just some factors that made me get out early.

But he can go f*ck himself. Most of my friends want to stay there and Ireland really needs more people.

Biggins

Yahew wrote: »

...Most graduates from the West will end up in Dublin, very few in Galway.

Seriously?
Care to back that claim up?

Yahew wrote: »

...Sure Australia is worse, but thats also a choice, as there are jobs in London and plenty of them.

O' yea, the streets are just paved with gold over there, 24/7 and the jobs are available, are not being fought over alone by British residents - sure they don't need the jobs!

Yahew wrote: »

...Its all Joe Duffyish, and thats often true of threads started by the OP.

Well if exposing stupidity and in-compassion in our heads that run the country get me branded - I'll wear the tarnishing it with honour.

Someone has to expose these fools or at least remind them, they are not just dealing with numbers but human beings.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

miguelk

Biggins wrote: »

Hello!

I have quoted OFFICIAL figures alone in this thread.

My argument/thoughts is that Noonan is a deluded fool.
16,000 Irish people alone last year - OFFICIAL figures - applied for work numbers in Britain alone - and they sure as hell were going for employment reasons!

A jump in figures, again to repeat, 50pc surge in the number of emigrants heading for Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Britain, the US and Germany by Irish folk.

I was referring to the breakdown of how many were lifestyle V forced. My point is that even in these hard times, lifestyle emmigration is still present and common enough.

Based on this I'm saying that Noonan, while ill-advised to do "straight talk" on the matter, was correct in saying that people still emmigrate, and will always emmigrate, for lifestyle reasons, and he was able to provide some evidencee of this from his own family.

If I was arguing that emmigration was not on the rise, or that people weern't emmigrating to get jobs, then the figures you quoted would be relevent, but in this case, for the point I made, they are not.

davet82

Yahew wrote: »

Except he has offspring who are permanent immigrants.

By choice, there are people leaving this country who just dont want to. if you are in consturction i wouldnlt give a bucket of piss for their prospects of work within the next 10 years, so people cant just get over it when they are forced to leave friends and family either for a year or for 10 because of the lack of oppertunity to support themselves or their children.

smurgen

Yahew wrote: »

What meaningless drivel

Ms Fay, from Drumconrath, Co Meath, has seen a son and daughter emigrate to Australia in the past 16 months. She said Mr Noonan simply did not understand the dire straits rural communities were in, nor the pain of having children on the other side of the world.


He's got a son in Canada.

not all of us who emigrated have rich parents back at home like Noonans son so that we can be flown back at the drop of a hat.

smurgen

Yahew wrote: »

Except he has offspring who are permanent immigrants.

how many times a year can his children afford to travel home I wonder?it's easy to live away from home when you can travel back whenever you want.

Mr. Presentable

Biggins wrote: »

Hello!

I have quoted OFFICIAL figures alone in this thread.

My argument/thoughts is that Noonan is a deluded fool.
16,000 Irish people alone last year - OFFICIAL figures - applied for work numbers in Britain alone - and they sure as hell were going for employment reasons!
They didn't go to England alone - as well as other countries looking for work numbers, so they could go hiking and bike scrambling, etc!

A jump in figures, again to repeat, 50pc surge in the number of emigrants heading for Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Britain, the US and Germany by Irish folk.

Obviously you have your agenda here and it is clouding your view. From one of your links

he asserted that some people merely wanted to "see another part of the world

Note the use of the word "some".

Storm in a teacup, proposed by the Indo (which I believe you refer to in other threads as a rag) and seconded by you.

starbelgrade

Biggins wrote: »

Hysterics?

More like the boffin once again has up-set people!
This time, instead of a single dead girls mother - its a whole lot of people!

* http://www.independent.ie/national-news/noonan-out-of-touch-with-painful-reality-say-emigrants-families-2995089.html

* http://www.independent.ie/national-news/family-fury-as-noonan-says-young-emigrate-for-lifestyle-2995083.html

There's no doubt that what Noonan said will upset some people, but I'd still prefer politicians to give honest opinions rather than do the usual political side stepping - I'd cetainly prefer it to the blasé, pat answers that the likes of Enda Kenny & Eamon Gilmore reel off with shocking ease.

At least it actually gives people something to react to, so I'd credit him for that (and I am by no means a fan of his or Fine Gaels).

What really pisses me off though is his constant references to "pulling on the green jersey". Just another poxy expression to add to the likes of "elephant in the room", "these difficult times", "strawman argument" etc.

Biggins

miguelk wrote: »

...I'm saying that
...that people still emmigrate, and will always emmigrate, for lifestyle reasons, and he was able to provide some evidencee of this from his own family.

If I was arguing that emigration was not on the rise, or that people weern't emmigrating to get jobs, then the figures you quoted would be relevent, but in this case, for the point I made, they are not.

You think a 50% rise isn't relevant or a 16/17% eise in the numbers in the last year alone to England isn't relevant?

Wow, we will have to agree to disagree on that big one!

I myself have never said that people will not always emigrate to some extent, in fact in this thread I think I said the opposite at times, agree with with many including your good self.
However the rising official numbers numbers coming from other states beyond are own are certainly indicating a rising trend of our offspring clearly leaving over work issues.

Biggins

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Obviously you have your agenda here and it is clouding your view. From one of your links

Note the use of the word "some".

Storm in a teacup, proposed by the Indo (which I believe you refer to in other threads as a rag) and seconded by you.

While you entitled to you opinion, I would just point out that the original link I gave (in my very first post) was NOT from the Indo (with their short/long term agenda), and as for this "some" now that is being banded about - we have yet to see here any actual proof as to his claim that he used the word.
Frankly given his previous actions, I wouldn't trust anything out of his mouth at first or even second hearing.

Someone please produce us a recording of the "some" being used?
Someone? Anyone?

...Nope - nothing so far but his now backtracking spin as I see it.

Biggins

starbelgrade wrote: »

There's no doubt that what Noonan said will upset some people, but I'd still prefer politicians to give honest opinions rather than do the usual political side stepping - I'd cetainly prefer it to the blasé, pat answers that the likes of Enda Kenny & Eamon Gilmore reel off with shocking ease.

At least it actually gives people something to react to, so I'd credit him for that (and I am by no means a fan of his or Fine Gaels).

What really pisses me off though is his constant references to "pulling on the green jersey". Just another poxy expression to add to the likes of "elephant in the room", "these difficult times", "strawman argument" etc.

I'm actually with you on all the above.
I agree that politician should say what they think - if only for voters to see their character and mental ability and then later vote on it/them at election time.

As for this "Green Jersey" crap - all sides need to be slapped, told to move on and get on with running the country in the Dail discussing more important matters - not be bickering like a bunch of old ladies, handbags drawn at fifty paces!

miguelk

miguelk wrote: »

I was referring to the breakdown of how many were lifestyle V forced.

If I was arguing that emmigration was not on the rise, or that people weern't emmigrating to get jobs, then the figures you quoted would be relevent, but in this case, for the point I made, they are not.

Biggins wrote: »

You think a 50% rise isn't relevant or a 16/17% eise in the numbers in the last year alone to England isn't relevant?

Wow, we will have to agree to disagree on that big one!

.

You are either deliberately mis-interpreting my posts or more worryingly reading what you want to read.

simit

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

the reason why most irish young people that emigrated was indeed lack of jobs... but that is partly to do with lack of linguistic skills here... more than 50% of the jobs being advertised require one or more foreign languages.

this makes it easier for foreigners to find work here but increasingly difficult for irish people. Schools would need to start teaching more european languages such as the nordic and eastern european languages in addition to french or german. they should also offer mandarin in schools too.

We had Mandarin in our school, apples and bananas too...

starbelgrade

"Outrage as Noonan Causes Mass Emigration"

Minister for Round Bellied Baldy People, Michael Noonan, today cause outrage as it was uncovered that he is the direct cause of over 70 million people leaving Ireland for good.

On last nights' episode of RTE's Primetime, it was revealed that the Minister played a direct role in the mass evacuation of the country by constantly repeating annoying expressions in a low, monotone voice.

Studies revealed that exposure to listening to recordings of his voice could cause nausea, mild brain damage and in some severe cases, death. As a result, people have fled the country for fears over their health and safety.

One person was quoted as saying, "I'm leaving on a jet plane, don't know when I'll be back again".

The Minister was unavailable for comment today.

.

Biggins

miguelk wrote: »

You are either deliberately mis-interpreting my posts or more worryingly reading what you want to read.

If I am mis-interpreting, its not intentional and I unreservedly apologise.
No ifs or buts.

Mr. Presentable

Biggins wrote: »

While you entitled to you opinion, I would just point out that the original link I gave (in my very first post) was NOT from the Indo (with their short/long term agenda), and as for this "some" now that is being banded about - we have yet to see here any actual proof as to his claim that he used the word.
Frankly given his previous actions, I wouldn't trust anything out of his mouth at first or even second hearing.

Someone please produce us a recording of the "some" being used?
Someone? Anyone?

...Nope - nothing so far but his now backtracking spin as I see it.

So now you are discrediting a link you put up in support of your debate? Have we seen any "actual proof" of any of the statements attributed in your OP?

You can't have it both ways.

Biggins

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

So now you are discrediting a link you put up in support of your debate? Have we seen any "actual proof" of any of the statements attributed in your OP?

You can't have it both ways.

I'm not discrediting anything.
I'll leave a reader to judge the temerity of a link content.

One of my links stated that HE stated:

he asserted that some people merely wanted to "see another part of the world

Fair enough - but AGAIN those here that are willing to stand by THAT part alone which they say is true - can they PLEASE produce the material to back it up?

We are so many posts in now and so far nothing!
Not even Mr Noonan has produced a recording of his interview!

davet82

the interview was on the bbc, maybe look there

miguelk

Biggins wrote: »

If I am mis-interpreting, its not intentional and I unreservedly apologise.
No ifs or buts.

hmm...

miguelk

Couldnt resist.

Fair enough Biggins. thanks

I'll leave it there, you're dug in too much to keep this going.

Biggins

miguelk wrote: »

hmm...

No if or buts about I willing to apologise if I was misinterpreting.

Does everything have to be spelt out like its in a child's early reading book, on this forum for some people?

The level of education in some, in this country saddens me sometimes.

miguelk

Biggins wrote: »

No if or buts about I willing to apologise if I was misinterpreting.

Does everything have to be spelt out like its in a child's early treading book, on this forum for some people?

The level of education in some, in this country saddens me sometimes.

Biggins, if you read both of my posts you will realise that was tongue in cheek.

No need to insult my education level, ironic really.

mikom

Biggins wrote: »

Does everything have to be spelt out like its in a child's early treading book,

Hold on, I learned to walk because of one of those.