Personal Locator Beacons

kirving

Although I'm evidently posting this in light of the recent tragedy in Cork, I think it would be wrong to speculate on the specifics of the incident.

Obviously this forum is full of people who are regularly on the water (I have very little experience on boats) so I thought I'd ask how many of you have personal locator beacons?

From what I've read on them, they can be invaluable in aiding SAR teams should you end up in the water, they're very small so they can be carried constantly, and are very cheap.

Again, no experience in this, but from what I've heard, fishermen often don't wear life jackets as they can be restrictive, but what's wrong with inflatable ones? Again, I can only see the advantages.

I wouldn't work on a boat without either of these.

Maybe I should be asking this on a fishery forum since I imagine that this is a hobby for lots of you, so going out in bad weather is less likely, but what are people's views on those who don't have the very best safety equipment they can afford?

Kevin.

Pigeon Reaper

I use a PLB when going out. They're worth the expense and tend to be more useful than an Epirb. The cost is about the same but the battery life on the PLB is slightly shorter.

There are regulations on the use of lifejackets but at the end of the day personal safety lies with the individuals. My Boat has a rule of lifejacket use.

Not all of us on the forum are just leisure boat users.

Tabnabs

I'd imagine a lot of it comes down to money. €264.29 is a fair chunk of change especially to fishermen who don't earn great money to start with. Added to that is the tough physical working environment where the thing may get damaged or lost and you're down even more money.

There were (and still may be) registration problems whereby people were registering them in the UK or the US. I haven't kept up-to-date with this issue, so it may now be resolved. However according to this website http://www.safetyonthewater.ie/SOTWviewitem.asp?id=9471&lang=ENG&loc=2237#plb

It must be programmed with a vessel callsign and registered.

Which means every time you work on another boat is has to be re-registered

As regards lifejackets, I believe the situation has improved, but again lifejackets are expensive items and the inflatable ones are particularly susceptible to damage from working on the deck of a boat.

BrensBenz

Until the cause of the tragedy in Cork has been identified we shouldn't speculate but I have some general comments on safety at sea:
I started sailing as a kid and safety was drummed into us from Day 1. If seen without a properly-fitted lifejacket, you were banned for a week. If seen without (fairly primitive) regulation safety equipment on board, you were disqualified from that race. And being banned or disqualified was NOT a badge of honour. With more experience came better equipment – EPIRBs and survival suits are fairly common now, even on local keelboats.
However, trawler men in my part of the world have many many strange ideas and superstitions. You will see life pods on the wheelhouse roof, the occasional lifebuoy, etc., because they are a requirement of law and / or insurance. “Solid” life-jackets or buoyancy aids are restrictive for about two minutes. Inflatable life-jackets are even more comfortable. But a deckhand wearing a lifejacket (never mind a dry suit or survival suit) is asking for and will get a lot of slagging. I’ve actually seen trawler men sailing dinghies and keelboats with up-to-date safety equipment AND making sure that his crew mates are wearing theirs but, next working day, casting off their trawler with no sign of a life jacket on skipper or crew. I believe the RNLI have many trawler men volunteers who wear state-of-the-art safety gear while on duty on the lifeboat but not while at work!
And, of course there are trawler men whose standards of safety would put the rest of us to shame but, as far as I can see, they are rare.
I can’t see how enforcement would work – the fishing industry is being badly beaten up as it is – but maybe we can start a culture change?

Alkers

Lifejacket or not it is the cold that will get you.
PLB and a lifejacket will do you a world of good in a man overboard situation but if you sink a hundred miles of the coast and are immersed you're gone either way.

cbreeze

Simona1986 wrote: »

Lifejacket or not it is the cold that will get you.
PLB and a lifejacket will do you a world of good in a man overboard situation but if you sink a hundred miles of the coast and are immersed you're gone either way.

This is a fair comment, but the advantage with a life jacket is that your body may be found more quickly. The bodies of a group of four people whose small leisure fishing boat overturned in rough seas in the south east some years ago were recovered soon after because they were wearing life jackets. Hypothermia was the cause of death.

When I was a kid I was out in boats a lot without a life jacket, even before I could swim, but I would never dream of doing that now. I check my inflatable jacket regularly to make sure the gas bottle is firmly screwed in and if I am aboard a boat where jackets are provided the first thing I do is check. On one boat last summer I did the usual check and discovered that there was no gas bottle in the thing at all! Buoyancy aids are ok for comfort but unless they have a collar they won't keep your head up if you are unconscious.

Not to wander too far off the topic the October issue of 'Yachting World' did a peice on this subject.

http://www.yachtingworld.com/magazine/50077/what-s-in-the-october-issue

LH2011

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Although I'm evidently posting this in light of the recent tragedy in Cork, I think it would be wrong to speculate on the specifics of the incident.

Obviously this forum is full of people who are regularly on the water (I have very little experience on boats) so I thought I'd ask how many of you have personal locator beacons?

From what I've read on them, they can be invaluable in aiding SAR teams should you end up in the water, they're very small so they can be carried constantly, and are very cheap.

Again, no experience in this, but from what I've heard, fishermen often don't wear life jackets as they can be restrictive, but what's wrong with inflatable ones? Again, I can only see the advantages.

I wouldn't work on a boat without either of these.

Maybe I should be asking this on a fishery forum since I imagine that this is a hobby for lots of you, so going out in bad weather is less likely, but what are people's views on those who don't have the very best safety equipment they can afford?

Kevin.

i use a few different types, spot satellite messenger, with GEOS private SAR, http://www.geosalliance.com/sar/index.html keep this clipped to my belt when out sailing, also the usual EPIRB / 406 /121.5 mhz, which must be registered, hard attached to the boat rail, along with a personal handheld one too.

Pigeon Reaper

Simona1986 wrote: »

Lifejacket or not it is the cold that will get you.
PLB and a lifejacket will do you a world of good in a man overboard situation but if you sink a hundred miles of the coast and are immersed you're gone either way.

A helicopter will get out to most incidents within a few hours even if it is a hundred NM miles out. Hypothermia will often take longer to kill you than that.

I've been at incidents where we could have saved the people if they had lifejackets one but unfortunately they didn't. Even if the person dies of hypothermia at least we'd get their bodies back. There are few things worse than searching with family members for weeks after people have gone missing.

Peoples perception of the hypothermia killing tends to be skewed as deaths whilst wearing lifejackets are widely reported. However the media does not report the many sucessful rescues and incidents due to the use of lifejackets.

orion50

Pigeon Reaper wrote: »

A helicopter will get out to most incidents within a few hours even if it is a hundred NM miles out. Hypothermia will often take longer to kill you than that.

I've been at incidents where we could have saved the people if they had lifejackets one but unfortunately they didn't. Even if the person dies of hypothermia at least we'd get their bodies back. There are few things worse than searching with family members for weeks after people have gone missing.

Well said. You've convinced me.

Steve

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Again, no experience in this, but from what I've heard, fishermen often don't wear life jackets as they can be restrictive, but what's wrong with inflatable ones? Again, I can only see the advantages.

Wrt to inflatable ones, from experience, when sailing (racing) and sitting 'on the rail' which means you're on the high side of the boat, sitting on the side with your head outside the top guard rail and your belly inside the bottom one.. anyways, when something goes wrong, the boat falls off a wave or chinese gybes and your automatic lifejacket decides that, as it is now underwater and needs to save you, inflates and effectively traps you underwater between the guard rails.. well it's not a good place to be and is the reason I will never use one. I do however use a buoyancy aid when conditions dictate as I trust it more to save my life.

That's my personal take on it - I'm not saying it applies or is even relevant to fishermen.

paulclan

Guess its local sailing then Steve?Lots of other boats around as well? does make the buoyancy aid a more aceptable option.
I borrowed an inflatable lifejacket twice recently: Checked the CO2 bottle before wearing and found it was loose inside.
Next one another day, ripped bladder, useless!
Tend to agree with you!
My own jacket I inflate manually for 48hours and check carefully before repacking and checking the firing pin for corrosion, also vaseline the bottle threads.

Steve

paulclan wrote: »

Guess its local sailing then Steve?Lots of other boats around as well?

Yeah, I'll always wear a proper lifejacket on an offshore race - especially at night but, for local racing, a bouyancy aid is so much more 'user friendly'.

alexlyons

Steve wrote: »

well it's not a good place to be and is the reason I will never use one. I do however use a buoyancy aid when conditions dictate as I trust it more to save my life.

either get a manual lifejacket or wear a bouncy aid. there are ways around lifejacket issues and you should always wear one.

granted the auto ones can be dangerous, but I don't feel it's an excuse not to wear some PFD at all times