Im not paying household charge

insight_man

Is there anyone in Kilkenny against the household charge / tax. For those who are opposed to the charge the national anti household charge campaign is urging people to support the campaign under the following slogan Don't Register - Don't Pay.

Simple enough idea, if enough people don't register the tax is virtually uncollectable.

Cabaal

Don't know of any in Kilkenny but there's at least one in Waterford, it is however being headed by that nut bag freeman crowd,

Sky King

I think I saw something in the paper about Conor MacLiam organising something in this regard.

I can't find a website for him to confirm this although being a computers teacher he surely must have one?

insight_man

Cabaal wrote: »

Don't know of any in Kilkenny but there's at least one in Waterford, it is however being headed by that nut bag freeman crowd,

The Freeman crowd are not even involved in the waterford campaign never mind heading it up. The waterford campaign is the Don't Register - Dont Pay campaign and have a committee running things. The freemen have their own strange ideas about brehon law and stuff and arn't part of the campaign at all. They believe everyone is soverign so ne committees no anything.

Its important that people know the difference between the groups. The freemen won't get anywhere and don't have any policies.

insight_man

Sky King wrote: »

I think I saw something in the paper about Conor MacLiam organising something in this regard.

I can't find a website for him to confirm this although being a computers teacher he surely must have one?

In a place the size of Kilkenny there must be some people who are not willing to pay the charges. If anyone is looking to link in they should contact the Waterford group or the national campaign hotline 1890 98 98 00.

Also the web site www.nohouseholdcharges.org has loads of information.

Sky King

Additional: I saw a poster advertising a public meeting about this in Kyteler's Inn.

Didn't catch the info as the text was small and I was passing quickly but I am sure you could give them a call in Kyteler's to ask.

insight_man

Sky King wrote: »

Additional: I saw a poster advertising a public meeting about this in Kyteler's Inn.

Didn't catch the info as the text was small and I was passing quickly but I am sure you could give them a call in Kyteler's to ask.

I heard today from one of the waterford group that 3 meetings have been held in kilkenny. Don't know if its true or not.

Even without an 'on the groung' campaign anyone who is against the tax can just simply not register. If they don't register they will be supporting the nationwide campaign.

Hopefully thousands of people in and around kilkenny will refuse to register.

exaisle

@OP: So basically you're leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab for you?

I've paid mine...and to be honest I'm sick of spongers who don't pay theirs despite being able to do so.

charlemont

exaisle wrote: »

@OP: So basically you're leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab for you?

I've paid mine...and to be honest I'm sick of spongers who don't pay theirs despite being able to do so.

Well done !!! Clap Clap.. Your medal is in the post....

belgianwil

exaisle wrote: »

@OP: So basically you're leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab for you?

I've paid mine...and to be honest I'm sick of spongers who don't pay theirs despite being able to do so.

you dont get it do you,the 100 euro is no problem its wats coming after that.Im not paying becauce they are taking ,prsi,tax,usc out my wages to pay european banks their gambling debts,so i have enough of it.Its do gooders like you that take everithing lying down,I went to one of the no household charge meeting and i tel you here and now,there is serious trouble down the line for this government...by the way thanks for picking up the tab.

insight_man

exaisle wrote: »

@OP: So basically you're leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab for you?

I've paid mine...and to be honest I'm sick of spongers who don't pay theirs despite being able to do so.

You were entitled to pay if you wanted that was your decision. This tax is nothing short of criminal and what the government is doing is trying to criminalise decent people who have paid their taxes for years and years.

This is the first real chance for ordinary people to make a stand. The campaign is very widebased with wealthy people, unemployed and workers all joining together to oppose this madness.

If you and others like you just cave in every time the government says jump or more to the point 'screw you for more taxes' to bail out speculators and gamblers, then within 2 years you'll be paying €1000 to €1200 a year. If rural people have to change their septic tank they could pay between €1500 -€6000.

By the way I've paid every kind of tax all my life, PAYE, PRSI, Pension Levy, USC, VAT, Car Tax etc etc. I've paid through the nose all my life but I'm not doing it anymore. Its time to take a stand....and no I'm not sponging off of you...if you are rich enough or silly enough or just don't care enough about whats going on, then thats your decision.

But as long as you allow yourself and your family to be trampled into the ground, you know what..thats exactly what will happen.

insight_man

belgianwil wrote: »

you dont get it do you,the 100 euro is no problem its wats coming after that.Im not paying becauce they are taking ,prsi,tax,usc out my wages to pay european banks their gambling debts,so i have enough of it.Its do gooders like you that take everithing lying down,I went to one of the no household charge meeting and i tel you here and now,there is serious trouble down the line for this government...by the way thanks for picking up the tab.

Spot on. make a stand now, enough is enough

insight_man

charlemont wrote: »

Well done !!! Clap Clap.. Your medal is in the post....

Is it gold, silver or bronze I wonder!

I'm sure Enda Kenny would have this boards member at the top of the class, big medal and all, paid for by all the fools who cough out the dough.

charlemont

insight_man wrote: »

Is it gold, silver or bronze I wonder!

I'm sure Enda Kenny would have this boards member at the top of the class, big medal and all, paid for by all the fools who cough out the dough.

Ha, He/She would probably get a huge salary with all the perks on top too and a secretary to do the actual work.

Rega

I'm not paying either. Sick to death of this government and the last trying to bleed us dry and then wring their caps in their hands, hoping for a pat on the head when the europeans come to visit.

Fúck off the lot of ye. How can they act surprised at our pathetic growth rate and horrific unemployment levels when we don't have any money to spend anymore? I pay my bills and my mortgage and that's about all I have.

They can go fúck themselves if they think I'm paying this or the poxy broadcast charge.

celticbhoy27

exaisle wrote: »

@OP: So basically you're leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab for you?

I've paid mine...and to be honest I'm sick of spongers who don't pay theirs despite being able to do so.

if you're so sick of "spongers" you shouldnt have paid this tax then. the government are sponging off us 24/7. they're not even trying to be clever about it anymore. it's people like you who take things lying down that makes it so easy for them to get away with such matters.

Einhard

belgianwil wrote: »

you dont get it do you,the 100 euro is no problem its wats coming after that.Im not paying becauce they are taking ,prsi,tax,usc out my wages to pay european banks their gambling debts,so i have enough of it.

No wil, I'm afraid it's you that doesn't get it. I'm assuming that your handle here is literal, and that you are actually living in Belgium, and therefore have no interest in Irish affairs, because I can't understand how a resident of this country could be so blithely unaware of the €20 billion deficit that Ireland runs up every year, a deficit which has NOTHING to do with the banks, or the the EU, or the IMF, or whatever other strawmen you want to drag into it. We spend more than we take in. That's a pretty simple equation I would have thought, but obviously some people have issues with the math involved. We spend more on social welfare, and education, and health, and the roads, and so on, than the exchequer receives in taxes. We have to close that gap, and there are three ways of doing so- by MASSIVE cuts in expenditure, a move which would sent the country crashing into depression and hammer the less well off; by MASSIVELY increasing taxes, which would send us back into recession and affect everyone, including yourself; or by adopting a more balanced approach, raising taxes whilst cutting expenditure. There are no other options. You have to choose one. I think it's important again to point out that this deficit has little to do witht he bailout. If we had never nationalised the banks or guaranteed losses, we would still have this massive deficit. So, the simple reality is, that we have to claw back a €20 billion deficit. You're against a modest property tax, so perhaps you could enlighten us as to how this deficit should be brought under control? Perhaps you have a better solution? It's not that I'm a great supporter of extra taxes see, it's just that most of the opposition to this tax is an ill-informed misture of blather and conjecture. You seem well informed on it though, and I'm willing to be persuaded to campaign against it, so I await with anticipation your proposal on how we celiminate our massive deficit without rasing taxes.

Its do gooders like you that take everithing lying down,I went to one of the no household charge meeting and i tel you here and now,there is serious trouble down the line for this government...by the way thanks for picking up the tab.

Do-gooder eh? I prefer democrat myself. Obviously a notion that many of the anti-property tax brigade are unfamiliar with. FG stated during the election that they would bring in a property tax. They duly got elected and, hey presto, announced a property tax. Who says politicians don't keep their promises?? But now, what do we have- an unelected, disaffected, rump within a minority proclaiming that this country should be run by the minority, that democracy has now place in Ireland anymore, that the 15% who oppose the tax are more important than thr 85% who don't! Talk about presumption! Talk about arrogance! What's worse, is that all these people, while trampling on the notion of democracy, are the most likely to queue up to pay lip service to it.

insight_man wrote: »

You were entitled to pay if you wanted that was your decision. This tax is nothing short of criminal and what the government is doing is trying to criminalise decent people who have paid their taxes for years and years.

I understand that this is an emotive issue and logic and facts tend to go out the window when emotions are at play, but I wish people would at least try to base their points on reality, and not some fantasy world where the laws are made up in their heads, and what's criminal is what they decide it to be. This tax was announced before the election by the parties in government; it was agreed in a programme for government; it is being passed by a democratically elected government in a democractic state; it has not been referred to the Council of State; and it has not been deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Therefore, for all your insight, you are entirely wrong. This tax is not criminal; this tax is not illegal; and one does not have an entitlement to pay it, one has an obligation.

I understand that this is not how you want things to be, but unfortunately the world isn't always as we wish. That's no excuse though for subverting reality with fantastical, easily rubbished claims.

This is the first real chance for ordinary people to make a stand. The campaign is very widebased with wealthy people, unemployed and workers all joining together to oppose this madness.

The first real chance? Did you miss that general election thing we held last year?

If you and others like you just cave in every time the government says jump or more to the point 'screw you for more taxes' to bail out speculators and gamblers, then within 2 years you'll be paying €1000 to €1200 a year. If rural people have to change their septic tank they could pay between €1500 -€6000.

See above: we have a €20 billion deficit. WE had it last year, and the year before that, and will have one for years to come. This has very little to do with guarantees to banks, or bailouts, or anything of the sort. Had AIB or BofI or Anglo never been nationalised, we'd still have this deficit. The property tax or charge is intended to address this. Now, I don't particularly like paying taxes, so I'd jump at the chance to avoid it. If you have a way to eliminate that deficit, let's have. I won't hold my breath though.

By the way I've paid every kind of tax all my life, PAYE, PRSI, Pension Levy, USC, VAT, Car Tax etc etc. I've paid through the nose all my life but I'm not doing it anymore. Its time to take a stand....and no I'm not sponging off of you...if you are rich enough or silly enough or just don't care enough about whats going on, then thats your decision.

Ireland has always had a relatively low rate of personal taxation, especially compared to European countries. While you might dislike paying taxes, it's certainly not accurate to claim that you've "paid through the nose" all your life.

But as long as you allow yourself and your family to be trampled into the ground, you know what..thats exactly what will happen.

Your family has been trampled into the ground? By a giant? Were they squished?

Seriously, the amount of exaggeration and hyperbole amongst people opposed to this tax is really astonishing. You're not going to the pay the tax? Fine- you're in the minority though. So can we stop with this cant that sees this petty movement of wannabe tax evaders constantly equated to the vanguard of some vast movement representing the majority? And please....can we be spared the anguished howls of righteous indignation when you're rightfully prosecuted for breaking the law and evading taxes?

exaisle

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

the government are sponging off us 24/7.

What EXACTLY do you mean by this?

exaisle

insight_man wrote: »

If rural people have to change their septic tank they could pay between €1500 -€6000.

You need to get your priorities right.

I'm a rural person. If rural people have to change their septic tank it means that their septic tank is causing pollution to the groundwater in the area.

How would you like to have raw sewage leaking into your drinking water? That, in effect, is what happens to the source of my drinking water when a local septic tank malfunctions.....or is never installed.....and that's why I have to have a permanent U/V filter on the outlet from my well.

If rural people have to change their septic tank then frankly, I dont care what it costs them.
If your family had been ill because of pollution to groundwater caused by local malfunctioning septic tanks, you'd probably feel the same way.

toe_knee

Am I mistaken in thinking that already Phil Hogan is talking about a second household tax in the broadcasting tax, where every household will have to pay????? Once you cave into one then it seems to be an open market for all. Saddle me up.

Arawn

it's there way of ****ing funding rte. I don't have a tv, but they're coming at me through the laptop screen/ pc now. assholes

Cabaal

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

the government are sponging off us 24/7. they're not even trying to be clever about it anymore.

The government is funded by the people and always had been so be it now or 1930's, 1990's or whenever, the government as you so inelegantly put it has always been "sponging off the people".

For that matter any government that has taken tax has done the same and this goes back to the Roman Empire, governments charge tax's....they are not intended to be "clever".

They are a charge for services that you are provided with, street lighting, healthcare, police forces, roads, greenbelts (woods etc) all have to be funded one way or another.

Do you expect it to be free or would you prefer cut backs in these things?

So perhaps we should turn off all street lighting after 9pm to save on that, privatize all our public lands and parks, that'll save money too. We can't grow money from tree's so sadly it has to come from somewhere.

I find it so amusing that people first blaimed FF for all this (yet dispite the problems are worldwide), this showed how short sighted people were, then they voted FG and Labour in expecting something different and shock that didn't happen.

Bottom line is somebody has to make the very hard and crap decisions, it doesn't matter that FG and the like could previous talk the talk we all saw when they got into power they realised the hard decisions also,

If people think the likes of Sinn Fein would be different then they are only fooling themselves.

Yes certainly changes could be made (for example RTE should be cut loose and have to fend for themselves instead of relying on the tv license fund), but still they'll be a shortfall.

Am I mistaken in thinking that already Phil Hogan is talking about a second household tax in the broadcasting tax, where every household will have to pay????? Once you cave into one then it seems to be an open market for all.

Yes you are mistaken, as much as I dislike the tv license fee its not another charge it is merely being rebranded....so instead of a tv license fee it'll be a broadcasting fee and even if you have no tv you'll have to pay it (it effectively covers internet and smart phone access).

it won't be in addition to the tv license fee, it'll replace it, this has been on the books for years...ever since streaming started becoming more popular on-line.

imho I see it as a internet tax but thats a subject for another thread as its off-topic in this

celticbhoy27

Cabaal wrote: »

The government is funded by the people and always had been so be it now or 1930's, 1990's or whenever, the government as you so inelegantly put it has always been "sponging off the people".

how "inelegantly" i put it :rolleyes: cheers for the history lesson by the way, just brought images from the life of brian flooding back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

Einhard

Cabaal wrote: »

I find it so amusing that people first blaimed FF for all this (yet dispite the problems are worldwide), this showed how short sighted people were, then they voted FG and Labour in expecting something different and shock that didn't happen.

The problem though, is that FF refused to take the hard decisions, and instead sought to buy the electorate in successive elections by throwing money at them. Had they some sense of fiscal rectitude, our current financial woes wouldn't be half as bad.

Formosa

Stop it Einhard, talking common sense will not be tolerated around here!

exaisle

celticbhoy27 wrote: »

Cabaal wrote: »

The government is funded by the people and always had been so be it now or 1930's, 1990's or whenever, the government as you so inelegantly put it has always been "sponging off the people".

how "inelegantly" i put it :rolleyes: cheers for the history lesson by the way, just brought images from the life of brian flooding back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

If you're going to make a point here, be prepared to defend it.
You lost this argument the minute you descended into farce....

Cabaal

Einhard wrote: »

The problem though, is that FF refused to take the hard decisions, and instead sought to buy the electorate in successive elections by throwing money at them.

So your telling me during the good times if ff cut child benefit and upped tax's you and basically the average joe wouldn't have been on boards complaining about them? I call BS on that.

Nobody likes decisions which cause people to have less expendable income, but regardless of if these decisions are being made now or back in 2002 people were still going to be up in arms.

Had they some sense of fiscal rectitude, our current financial woes wouldn't be half as bad.

Our current woes however are not just ours, look around you, look at europe and the world.

People are very narrowminded and instead of seeing it as a worldwide thing which they don't appear to be able to comprehend they just want to blame one small group of people....in this case a political party be it FF or FG.

imho anyone who got out a loan for a car, house, holiday etc, basically anything they couldn;'t upfront afford was also part of the problem. They didn't have the money to do so so they were living beyond their means.

We're all adults, nobody forced anyone to change their new car everyyear, nobody forced anyone to spend 500K on a 3 bedroom house, nobody held a gun to anyone's head.

Ok sure some blame can be put on banks for offering easy money but then your an adult and if you can't see perhaps getting a new 40k loan for a car each year was a bad idea then your not living up to your responsibilities as an adult.

Before anyone goes claiming I'm trying to defend FF or FG, I do not actively support either party.

up for anything

I was in town today and the Socialist Party were at the Tholsel collecting signatures for a petition against the household tax.

I think some people on here were asking if there was going to be a Kilkenny campaign so I took down the details for you.

They're meeting at 8pm on Wednesday, 25th January in Kytlers Inn.

itsyuranan

They cant afford to jail everyone

Einhard

Cabaal wrote: »

So your telling me during the good times if ff cut child benefit and upped tax's you and basically the average joe wouldn't have been on boards complaining about them? I call BS on that.

Of course people would have been up in arms. That's why it would have been a hard decision. It would have been in the national interest though. FF however, were more interested in the party's interest than in that of the nation. They refused to take the hard decisions that might have shielded us in the current financial storm. It's easy to do things that people like; the essence of good government is to take the necessary decisions, not just those that are palatable. And the FF/PD coalitions failed in this regard, and therefore failed as governments.

Nobody likes decisions which cause people to have less expendable income, but regardless of if these decisions are being made now or back in 2002 people were still going to be up in arms.

So what? The decisions were there to be made, and FF refused to take them. They should be criticised for that.

Our current woes however are not just ours, look around you, look at europe and the world.

Of course they're not just ours, but the worldwide recession had a disproportionate impact on Ireland because of longrunning fiscal irresponsibility on the part of two successive FF coalition governments. They allowed the property bubble to grow expotentially because the tax receipts from house sales allowed them to throw more money at the electorate, and because they were afraid of the backlash were they to take prudent decisions such as banning 100% mortgages, or beefing up the financial regulator- necessary decisions which were taken in other countries.

People are very narrowminded and instead of seeing it as a worldwide thing which they don't appear to be able to comprehend they just want to blame one small group of people....in this case a political party be it FF or FG.

I don't blame FF for the worldwide econonomic crisis. That would be absurd. I do, however, blame them for the disproportionate impact that it's had on Ireland. Under Bertie Ahern, FF's overriding goal was re-election, when it should have been the efficient governance of the country.

We're all adults, nobody forced anyone to change their new car everyyear, nobody forced anyone to spend 500K on a 3 bedroom house, nobody held a gun to anyone's head.

Yes, the public have responsibility for the recession too, particularly, IMO, for allowing ourselves to be bought FF over successive elections. We connived in FF's fiscal mismangagement, and we can't be absolved of responsibility. But FF and the PDs were in charge. They were the government of the country. And they failed to govern in a prudent, responsible manner, something for which they deserve censure.

itsyuranan wrote: »

They cant afford to jail everyone

They won't. They'll just take it out of paypackets and social service payments. Amid much self absorbed wailing and gnashing of teeth from the tax dodgers involved.

insight_man

Einhard wrote: »

The problem though, is that FF refused to take the hard decisions, and instead sought to buy the electorate in successive elections by throwing money at them. Had they some sense of fiscal rectitude, our current financial woes wouldn't be half as bad.

I look forward to the battle. On one side those who are willing to pay the tax and those who are not prepared to pay it.

Interesting times ahead!!!