Badly behaved children

wolfpawnat

grindelwald wrote: »

Also that being said parenting a 3 year old and parenting a preteen/ teen is a whole different thing. You have to adapt to each phase they go through.

As I stated in one part of my first post Each phase is different, but you have to start as you mean to go on and each phase is easier in some ways and more difficult in others. EG a toddler is easier to discipline as they are easily carried to "time out" corners, but they don't really understand everything. A tween is easier to explain things to, but often more complexed to discipline.

grindelwald wrote: »

AS far as im concerned if i raise kids that dont break the law IM HAPPY. At the moment i dont see them as law breakers but then again they are 12, 6, and 5. They have manners but its up to them when they choose to use them (and will be reminded to use them if they forget).

I am the same, as long as my fella doesn't break laws or make another persons life difficult it is a success as far as I am concerned!

grindelwald wrote: »

My 12 year old was being bullied on facebook and it took 2 weeks of bullying for her manners to disappear then she told them the F**k off. TBH i would rather her of told them to F**k off after day 3 because then they started calling her a fat ugly bitch, slutty, fat slut, lesbian and so on. These girls were not stereotypical they were from good homes with 2 parents, the parents were mortified at what their girls wrote, in front of their parents they were angels but behind their back the kids were far from it. I kept every message they sent also showing them my daughters replies, which were very mannerly until she told them to F off.

A lot of parents refuse to believe their angels are such bítches, but the thing is, it is usually the ones from good middle class families that are like that, as those from one parent or less stable homes are too busy trying to cope with their lives or they know that no matter what they say about others, others are able to sling mud back at them.

I used to get called names by my mother and I still do off my partners mother the whole time and it really is a case of water off a ducks back, but 12 is a tender age, where a child will either develop a thick skin or it can ruin their confidence for life. The one thing I have to say about FB and online bullying, it is easy to keep a full account of everything said. So parents, though they may try are incapable of denying their "angels" behaviour!

Fittle

The kids I don't like as kids, will most probably grow up to be adults I don't like.

I do believe there are children who are just not nice and it's not necessarily a reflection on their parents.

suitseir

superslimme wrote: »

"
he has been a cheeky, rude and frankly horrible child"

What a horrible thing to say about a child, give a child a label and you know what? They’ll live up to it!

"I know in some extreme cases there can be something wrong with the child such as adhd or similar but allot of the time I know that’s not the case.”

So you have research and statistics to back this up I presume as you are so sure?


I have worked with children and parents for the past 10 years and your attitude is appalling and biased. You have obliviously no idea why this child or other "badly behaved children" do not meet to your high standards. Parenting is not an easy job; you don't get a handbook at birth on how to have the perfect child. In my experience the problem more often than not, does not rest with the child, it's with the adults and I'm not just talking about the parents. How dare you sit up on your moral high horse? In your quest to have the perfect child here are some words you may want to look up; INCLUSION, ACCEPTANCE , UNDERSTANDING and I hope that your child does not come across people as narrow minded as you!

A bit harsh IMO!

INCLUSION, ACCEPTANCE, UNDERSTANDING...........let me think about that for a minute!

suitseir

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I don't want to believe that anybody sets out to bring up a brat! I think with the best of intentions, well meaning parents sometimes get it wrong.

We all start out with "ideals", and while its nice to aim for them I think it is very very important to realise that your child is a little person. A little person with their own personality and mind. So that when your child doesn't behave exactly as you want them to, its very important to tell yourself that its not the end of the world.

As you say yourself, you went off the rails a bit. I'm sure that wasn't specifically down to parenting.. it was also to do with you being your own person, and making your own decisions.

Don't be SO sure that you will be able to spot the signs with your own son... you may well spot them, but he may not take a blind bit of notice of anything you do/say at that stage!! Did you take notice of YOUR parents?!

My husband is a teacher in a secondary school. He says across the classes the huge majority of kids are nice kids, but there are always 1 or 2 that will just cause trouble...

I'd happily take "1 or 2" instead of 20 or 25!

If you teach your child values that are important to you, he'll be ok. He won't always do or say what you want him to.... but that's normal.

Your son is 7 months... you are full of theory and ideas at the moment.. I'd love to here back from you in even 2 years time, to see how those theories and ideals are working out!

Imagine where you'll be in 14 years!!

Relax. Teach your child to be honest and mannerly, and expect that he'll never be "perfect"... then you won't go far wrong.

No doubt for OP it is a lesson in child rearing and how NOT to get it wrong. Your points are valid. It is all about LEARNING. Praise your child, converse with them from an early stage. They are like sponges....if they see bad behavior, they will emulate it! FACT! So, if you show good manners etc. they will copy and paste! I doubt we will HEAR from the OP in 2 years as it will have all blown over!

gcgirl

It's down to parents in my own opinion, I've know a few people who's parents think the sun shines out off the daughters/sons asses and clearly they're rude & obnoxious and that stems from their childhood, my 3 kids learn from me they don't pick up their behaviour from anyone else, I've got a lot of complements on how good the kids are off teachers and friends and I've came across some nasty little ****es which make me feel I do have 3 great if not excellent kids

Daisy M

Its so hard as a parent to know if your doing the right thing or not. My 14 year old thinks we are way too strict with him. Last week we grounded him for going in and getting his hair cut and getting designs shaved in without telling us. I dont have any big problem with designs I dont like them but I think they are harmless. However he knew we wouldnt allow it during school terms. I would have allowed him during any of the two week holidays or summer. His school is not the type where this type of thing is popular anyway you rarely see it on any other lads. Anyway we grounded him but he then came home from school with a story of two other lads who got into big trouble in school for bullying a young girl saying she preformed sex acts ect. The same lads were allowed to an event that evening. My sons theory is he never gets in trouble like that doesnt want to drink or smoke and we are too strict. Its confusing for me because I dont want to be down on him for silly things and I didnt really care about the hair just the fact he knew what he was up to knew we wouldnt allow it and did it anyway.

Am I wrong? Should I have let it go?

suitseir

Daisy M wrote: »

Its so hard as a parent to know if your doing the right thing or not. My 14 year old thinks we are way too strict with him. Last week we grounded him for going in and getting his hair cut and getting designs shaved in without telling us. I dont have any big problem with designs I dont like them but I think they are harmless. However he knew we wouldnt allow it during school terms. I would have allowed him during any of the two week holidays or summer. His school is not the type where this type of thing is popular anyway you rarely see it on any other lads. Anyway we grounded him but he then came home from school with a story of two other lads who got into big trouble in school for bullying a young girl saying she preformed sex acts ect. The same lads were allowed to an event that evening. My sons theory is he never gets in trouble like that doesnt want to drink or smoke and we are too strict. Its confusing for me because I dont want to be down on him for silly things and I didnt really care about the hair just the fact he knew what he was up to knew we wouldnt allow it and did it anyway.

Am I wrong? Should I have let it go?

As a mother and grandmother (of recent), I think you were right to ground him even for something as silly as the hair thingy. Kids actually LIKE boundaries and rules, believe it or not! Rearing 14 year olds nowadays must be a nightmare. If you let him away with what may be perceived as minor misdemeanors, you can be sure it would progress to more serious ones! These are my own personal opinions and I reared IMO very balanced kids who never got into any trouble and we would have considered ourselves fairly liberal for the time. Best of luck.

LittleBook

Daisy M wrote: »

I didnt really care about the hair just the fact he knew what he was up to knew we wouldnt allow it and did it anyway.

My daughter's a little older than your son and we're in exactly the same boat. Wanting to dye her hair all sorts of mad colours and spending too much time on the internet are as bad as it gets so I'm so, SO lucky in that respect.

But intentionally doing something that she knows is (for whatever reason) forbidden would definitely lead to a grounding.

I respect her and she respects me. I don't expect her to be "mindlessly compliant" (as the Guardian article worries) ... if we disagree on something we negotiate and compromise. If there's a rule in place, there's a reason for it, it's never "because I said so!" And there've been a few times so far when she's argued her case and I've been the one to concede.

She can do whatever she wants to with her hair during the holidays, but not during school term, the original reason being that the code of dress at the school expressly forbids unnatural hair colours. So she was allowed to dye her hair jet black which she was happy with.

But what can you do when you see other kids getting away with pink and blue hair at school?

You're trying to remain consistent ... consistent with your own guidelines, not with what other kids are doing. It's great that he doesn't want to drink or smoke and maybe other kids get away with stuff he wouldn't even dream of doing. But ask him does he really want to compare himself to the kind of boy who bullies young girls?

cynder

LittleBook wrote: »

Daisy M wrote: »

I didnt really care about the hair just the fact he knew what he was up to knew we wouldnt allow it and did it anyway.

My daughter's a little older than your son and we're in exactly the same boat. Wanting to dye her hair all sorts of mad colours and spending too much time on the internet are as bad as it gets so I'm so, SO lucky in that respect.

But intentionally doing something that she knows is (for whatever reason) forbidden would definitely lead to a grounding.

I respect her and she respects me. I don't expect her to be "mindlessly compliant" (as the Guardian article worries) ... if we disagree on something we negotiate and compromise. If there's a rule in place, there's a reason for it, it's never "because I said so!" And there've been a few times so far when she's argued her case and I've been the one to concede.

She can do whatever she wants to with her hair during the holidays, but not during school term, the original reason being that the code of dress at the school expressly forbids unnatural hair colours. So she was allowed to dye her hair jet black which she was happy with.

But what can you do when you see other kids getting away with pink and blue hair at school?

You're trying to remain consistent ... consistent with your own guidelines, not with what other kids are doing. It's great that he doesn't want to drink or smoke and maybe other kids get away with stuff he wouldn't even dream of doing. But ask him does he really want to compare himself to the kind of boy who bullies young girls?

Talking about dieing hair mad colours my young lady is getting her tips dyed pink. After that she wants blue highlights. Or blue and pink highlights. My theory is ti get it out of her system while she is young and when she is older she will have more sense. the rules at school permit pink and blue hair. She's getting the tips done for confirmation in march.

To me pink hair is better than getting piercings. I hate them with a passion. Hair will grow back. I dyed my hair from age 11. Had my first tattoo at 16. So I know where my lady is coming from. She has only used wash out dyes so far but the pink tips will be permanent.

Daisy M

Phew I feel better thanks everyone. Ans suitseir I do find the more we enforce the ground rules the better behaved he is, its when we get lax he pushes more.

Grindlewald I dont like how his hair turned out (neither did he, ha ha served him right) but if he had asked I probably would have agreed or said wait until easter. I dont mind the thoughts of them experimenting with their looks if its not permanent. The problem we had is he thought we would say no so he went ahead and did it, he had to get his own way.

cynder

Daisy M wrote: »

Phew I feel better thanks everyone. Ans suitseir I do find the more we enforce the ground rules the better behaved he is, its when we get lax he pushes more.

Grindlewald I dont like how his hair turned out (neither did he, ha ha served him right) but if he had asked I probably would have agreed or said wait until easter. I dont mind the thoughts of them experimenting with their looks if its not permanent. The problem we had is he thought we would say no so he went ahead and did it, he had to get his own way.

I know. I would have a fit if my lady came home with a piercing. she would be in real trouble if she went and did something without getting permission first. She talks to me a lot though so dont see her acting like that just yet, I've got all the teen years ahead of me, so it may happen at some point and will be severly punished.

I bet your delighted he hates his new hair. Great punishment...

Ayla

To bring the current subject in line with the OP -

When I was a teen I got my ears pierced a second time (so each ear had two piercings)...I have no idea why I did this, but I'm sure about 95% of it had to do with pushing the boundaries/rebelling. I was a bit nuts & actually looking forward to seeing my parents freak (I was otherwise the ideal kid), but their reaction?...eh. They didn't care. :rolleyes:

Completely took the wind out of my sails and made the entire event seem completely silly (not to mention a waste of a few bucks). I almost never wore the second earrings and have no idea if the holes are even open anymore.

The point of this being (in line with the OP) - sometimes kids of all ages will do something just to see if it gets a rise out of their parents. If it doesn't get the expected reaction it can actually nip the whole situation right in the bud. Of course, it completely depends on the actual age, situation & child/parent involved, but I would hesitate to react with a knee-jerk reaction that 'x' is going to lead to 'y' which is ultimately going to involve 'z' and baby "z's"

axel rose

I'm really interested to know what is superslimmes background and experience........because it really is off the wall. I would love to know what theories and models she is applying to her arguments.

I would never accept or tolerate a physical assault or consistent disrespect from a child/teenager/adult. Speaking as professional social care worker of over 10 years experience.........

nesf

We're kind of having this problem at the moment. The issue is lying, it started off as small lies, then progressed to lying about being sick and then finally he started lying about some quite serious stuff like being hit. He's only 5 and he doesn't seem to be able to understand the difference between one "trick" (i.e. telling Daddy that Mommy wants him) and a far more serious "trick" like "Daddy hits me a lot." To him it's just playing a trick on someone either way (when asked about it he laughed and said he'd played a good trick on X with it). He's been talked to at length about it and it'll eventually sink in but until it does this will be a problem.

He'll grow out of it but it's upset a family member quite badly. It's not really bad behaviour as much as it is not really understanding the consequences of what he's doing. That said, the worst of his behaviour otherwise is standard throwing tantrums stuff and he's been growing out of that steadily.

axel rose

My advice is at 5 yo- he knows that he is doing something wrong. I would advise you to be be very calm and matter of fact about his consequences. (IMO from what you describe it's attention seeking). explaining to him how he made someone sad is a great move.

In relation to his consequences- what motivates him? What does he like to play with? to do? Tell him in advance what his consequences will be if he lies again.

However if his 'thing' is an activity that he does with either of his parents-maintain it as he is clearly loving attention regardless of where its coming from. Keep up lots of special one to one activities and positive re-enforcement of good behaviour.

<wanna swap with the moodiest 3yo in Ireland? He's driving me to drink >

cynder

Just back from school, teacher mentioned my 5 year old had a bad day, told his SNA to 'shut her trap' he know these are bad words (put in to simple language he can understand, due to his speech and language disorder) but he doesnt have the language skills to tell her, 'will you give me a bit of space your wreaking my head'.

nesf

axel rose wrote: »

My advice is at 5 yo- he knows that he is doing something wrong. I would advise you to be be very calm and matter of fact about his consequences. (IMO from what you describe it's attention seeking). explaining to him how he made someone sad is a great move.

In relation to his consequences- what motivates him? What does he like to play with? to do? Tell him in advance what his consequences will be if he lies again.

However if his 'thing' is an activity that he does with either of his parents-maintain it as he is clearly loving attention regardless of where its coming from. Keep up lots of special one to one activities and positive re-enforcement of good behaviour.

Yeah we're taking the calm and matter of fact approach having a talk with him about how not all lies are equal and how it's not ok to lie about certain things. He knows he's doing something wrong he just thinks that all lies are as wrong as each other and if lying about something minor isn't a big deal then all lies aren't a big deal. Overgeneralising like this is pretty common at this age, we just need to talk to him a lot and get it into his head that reality isn't so black and white.

It doesn't seem to be an attention thing, he just seems to find it really funny to play tricks on people.

dudmis

nesf wrote: »

We're kind of having this problem at the moment. The issue is lying, it started off as small lies, then progressed to lying about being sick and then finally he started lying about some quite serious stuff like being hit.

I used the story of Peter and the Wolf with my 5 year to try to explain the consequences of lying to him - I think (:P) it worked...

Mr. Presentable

Interesting to me is how on the animals forum when a dog misbehaves or bites it is always the owner's fault through poor training, yet when a child misbehaves it is adhd, or society's fault.

Parents need to parent. It is not by accident that people who use the hands off indulgent approach with their "Little lady" "Little man" are the ones whose children throw the tantrums.

But, OP, you can't really blame the child for being what his/her parents make them.

Mr. Presentable

nesf wrote: »

Yeah we're taking the calm and matter of fact approach having a talk with him about how not all lies are equal and how it's not ok to lie about certain things. He knows he's doing something wrong he just thinks that all lies are as wrong as each other and if lying about something minor isn't a big deal then all lies aren't a big deal. Overgeneralising like this is pretty common at this age, we just need to talk to him a lot and get it into his head that reality isn't so black and white.

It doesn't seem to be an attention thing, he just seems to find it really funny to play tricks on people.

Lying is a difficult one. Kids start to lie usually, not as you'd imagine to get out of trouble, but to keep you happy. Be happy your child is smart enough to lie - some aren't! And try to learn to read when they're lying - if they think they can't get one past you it'll stop until they start smoking

nesf

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Lying is a difficult one. Kids start to lie usually, not as you'd imagine to get out of trouble, but to keep you happy. Be happy your child is smart enough to lie - some aren't! And try to learn to read when they're lying - if they think they can't get one past you it'll stop until they start smoking

I can read him pretty well but other people can't. He's smart enough to get a lie past most people, so yeah on one hand I'm happy with his ingenuity on the other I'm kind of going "did you have to lie about that..."

cynder

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Interesting to me is how on the animals forum when a dog misbehaves or bites it is always the owner's fault through poor training, yet when a child misbehaves it is adhd, or society's fault.

Parents need to parent. It is not by accident that people who use the hands off indulgent approach with their "Little lady" "Little man" are the ones whose children throw the tantrums.
But, OP, you can't really blame the child for being what his/her parents make them.

Our dog only bit to protect her family and her property. My kids dont bite. Dogs also bite because it's in their nature to. You can never trust a dog even the best natured ones.

There is such a thing as ADHD and add also odd along with a list of other disorders and mental inssues. But of course blame the patents, it is after all the easy option.

Odd is Opositional defiance disorder.
Add is attention deficit disorder.

Many psychologist prefer the ignore bad behaviour praise good behaviour route. And this is the first bit of advice they give you especially with tantrums.

Perhaps ignoring the lies will help. if no one is interested in listening to a lie child will stop liying. Just a thought.

Big Bag of Chips

Our youngest, 3, who is definitely the most "spirited" (!) of our 3 told me one day, in front of my husband. "Daddy hurts me." When questioned further, he continued, "Daddy hurts me really hard, on my shoulder and on my arm"....

Turns out, "because he cuddles me too hard"

!!

We're just hoping if he ever says it to anyone else, he continues to the end of the story. Although daddy has now started to cuddle gently!

nesf

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

We're just hoping if he ever says it to anyone else, he continues to the end of the story. Although daddy has now started to cuddle gently!

The problem I've found is not with people used to young children, and thus used to the stories young children come up with, but those not used to young children that don't have a context to put a child's stories within.

But yeah, really not something you want a child to go up to their teacher/preschool teacher and say!

cynder

nesf wrote: »

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

We're just hoping if he ever says it to anyone else, he continues to the end of the story. Although daddy has now started to cuddle gently!

The problem I've found is not with people used to young children, and thus used to the stories young children come up with, but those not used to young children that don't have a context to put a child's stories within.

But yeah, really not something you want a child to go up to their teacher/preschool teacher and say!

My then 6 year old told her teacher that she was left to mind the baby. I would go to the toilet and ask her to keep an eye on him ( so he wouldn't choke or cry) she made it sound like I was leaving the house for hours on end and she had to look after the baby, feed him and change him. I got called into the school about it.

nesf

grindelwald wrote: »

My then 6 year old told her teacher that she was left to mind the baby. I would go to the toilet and ask her to keep an eye on him ( so he wouldn't choke or cry) she made it sound like I was leaving the house for hours on end and she had to look after the baby, feed him and change him. I got called into the school about it.

Well, a teacher kind of has to call you in about it. They're not in a nice position here even if they're pretty sure the child is exaggerating or lying.

LittleBook

dudmis wrote: »

I used the story of Peter and the Wolf with my 5 year to try to explain the consequences of lying to him - I think (:P) it worked...

I think you mean The Boy Who Cried Wolf, no?

vixen chaser

qwertytlk wrote: »

Hi all,
i am astounded at some childrens bad attitudes. For example my nephew (partners sisters child) is 7 and as long as iv known him (4 yrs) he has been a cheeky, rude and frankly horrible child. My partner also thinks this. For example he will come over and kick my partner as hard as he can in the shins and really hurt him or will hint for money etc by coming down to the table and putting his little purse out and counting his money saying 'look uncle pat, i have 23euro,how much do you have' and go on and on, then my parter will take out 20 euro with the intention of giving him 10 and the kid will be visablly pissed off he didnt get the 20 and not even say thanks. He wll also call people rude names when his parents arent listening(and im not talking about silly names but rather disgusting swear words like you f-ing c**t which imo is DISGUSTING) I know other children who are the same or similar, albeit not as bad, and i so dont want my son to be like this. I know in some extreme cases there can be something wrong with the child such as adhd or similar but alot of the time i know thats not the case. So then you wonder why are they like this. In most cases the parents seem normal, educated and nice people. So is it just the way things are in this day and age, that children are often spoiled, not consistently disciplined, or is it the ifluence of tv or computer games etc or somethng else entirely such as other enviornmental factors?
I have just had a baby, hes 7 months now so i know it may be a little premature to be thinking of these things but myself and my patner have been talking tonight and on previous occasions and were both saying how its so important to us(obviously)that our son is well brought up with good manners and a decent attitude. But how do you ensure this? I mean how do we do things better or differently than other parents of badly behaved children when 90% of the time i personally cant see that these parents are specifically doing anything 'wrong'? Is it normal for children to have serious temper tantrums where they throw themselves on the ground in the shops and scream, kick and cry? Or is that a sign of bad parenting or some other issue?
I know kids will be kids and boys (some anyway) can be a litle rough etc and all this is fine but i just wonder when the behaviour of many children i see out and about, or that i know personally, seems a bit out f control why this is happening and how do i prevent this? As im sure 99% of parents only want the best for their children and strive to bring them up well behaved and good mannered but for some it just doesnt happen. So im just wondering what peoples opinions and views are? Or if they have any theories, advice or words of wisdom?! Thanks
btw, i just want to say that obviously i know kids need boundaries, consistent discipline, praise, encouragement and love and i will strive to be a good example for my child...although i dont claim to be perfect in any way and i realise other people arent either so i hope my post didnt sound judgemental, its just kind of mind boggling when you see people who seem to be doing the right things but its all going wrong for them. So this then brings me to think is ther some other factors at play, as iv outlined in my thread.

The problem is that society has gone down the drain in the past 10 to 15 years. Rewind the years back and that child in quetion would have got a few well deserved clatters across the back of the legs or a clip around the ear if he behaved like that. I know anti smackers will probably read this and literally have a heart attack. However children were raised to respect others back then, I dread when his generation reach adulthood. A few piercing smacks always did children including me the world of good. Atleast we knew our place. growing up in the 80's and 90's were brilliant.

KittyeeTrix

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Interesting to me is how on the animals forum when a dog misbehaves or bites it is always the owner's fault through poor training, yet when a child misbehaves it is adhd, or society's fault.

Parents need to parent. It is not by accident that people who use the hands off indulgent approach with their "Little lady" "Little man" are the ones whose children throw the tantrums.

But, OP, you can't really blame the child for being what his/her parents make them.

My sister's first son has ADHD and unfortunately before she had him I believed in what you just posted........I

It's all the parents fault,
How the hell can a parent not control their child,
If that child was mine I'm telling ya, they wouldn't be carrying on like that......These are just a few of the thing I used to think to myself when looking at some parents with their kids.:o

My sister had her son and I'm not lying when I say that she would be a far different parent than me. Her child would have set bed routines, always immacuately dressed, she always made him say please and thank you, would be careful with what he watched on TV, wouldn't even consider him having a nintendo.......blah, blah, blah, all the usual stuff that some people would consider to be good parenting but which I never subscribed to.

Anyhoo, there's me with my 4 kids and I could take them all to town to the shops quite uneventfully whereas my sister had to stop bringing her son as it was an absolute nightmare with him.

By the age of 3 he had been thrown out of his first childminders, a montessori and she had to eventually remove him from another creche. She decided against having anymore children as he was that difficult to raise but sod's law and all that meant she had another son who turned out to be an absolute angel:)

She eventually last year got him diagnosed as having ADHD and she cried tears of relief because it finally meant that she wasn't a bad parent and that no matter what the hell she was doing that it was NOT her fault!

I felt so bad for her because I knew what some people think when they see a misbehaving child and this is not always the case:(

nesf

vixen chaser wrote: »

The problem is that society has gone down the drain in the past 10 to 15 years. Rewind the years back and that child in quetion would have got a few well deserved clatters across the back of the legs or a clip around the ear if he behaved like that. I know anti smackers will probably read this and literally have a heart attack. However children were raised to respect others back then, I dread when his generation reach adulthood. A few piercing smacks always did children including me the world of good. Atleast we knew our place. growing up in the 80's and 90's were brilliant.

It's really, really not that simple. Speaking as someone who is not opposed to the odd light smack for children.