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ASM Clermont Auvergne v Ulster, Sat 21st Jan 2012, Stade Marcel Michelin, 3:40pm

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    #182
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    lologram wrote: »
    Don't need the advice thanks, it was your post that I attacked. If you are aware of the laws you don't seem to show it. What Muller did was brainless dissent, against the laws and a penalty. It is no way Pearson's fault that he had to award the penalty. The laws don't just apply when they suit any given team's supporters. It also doesn't matter that it turned over possession to Clermont at a crucial time, that is once again Muller's fault.

    As for calling for Pearson to be sacked, well that just speaks for itself really.

    If Pearson had made the correct the decision he wouldn't have had to award the penalty.

    So to say that it is "in no way" his fault is completely wrong. Muller was out of order but Pearson doesn't deserve defending after his performance.


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    #183
    ambid
    Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭ambid


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    I'd be nervous about hosting Ulster.

    Yeah but so far Leinster this year have played average enough sides in the Heineken Cup. A quarter final against Ulster might actually be just what they need. There is a big risk Leinster could lose, but there is also a big risk that if they had an easier game then they could go into the semis a little under-prepared.

    Leinster v Ulster in a packed Aviva in April would be excellent.


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    #184
    Jess16
    Registered Users Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭Jess16


    Pearson was wrong and even more wrong for awarding a penalty against a player for simply noticing him being wrong


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    #185
    cgpg5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,656 ✭✭✭cgpg5


    ambid wrote: »
    Yeah but so far Leinster this year have played average enough sides in the Heineken Cup. A quarter final against Ulster might actually be just what they need. There is a big risk Leinster could lose, but there is also a big risk that if they had an easier game then they could go into the semis a little under-prepared.

    Leinster v Ulster in a packed Aviva in April would be excellent.

    I think he's speaking from a Munster perspective :D


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    #186
    EmeraldNK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭EmeraldNK


    Jess16 wrote: »
    Pearson was wrong and even more wrong for awarding a penalty against a player for simply noticing him being wrong

    To be honest, I'm not sure Muller actually said anything particularly abusive or disruptive, and I wouldn't think it's dissent to simply point out to the referee that it was a deliberate slap down and not merely a knock on.

    Pearson was poor in quite a lot of important decisions today, this one was fairly minor by comparison...


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    #187
    Brewster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭Brewster


    Jess16 wrote: »
    Pearson was wrong and even more wrong for awarding a penalty against a player for simply noticing him being wrong

    Pearson is Pearson, usually about himself. Nothing changes. If he'd applied the rules Ulster could have got a result.


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    #188
    overshoot
    Registered Users Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭overshoot


    cant decide if we were robbed or blew it but it was a fantastic 80mins of rugby and the atmosphere sounded amazing. if offered a best runner up spot id have taken it at the start of the year. (but that home qf and dumping the french powerhouse was so close! guess its one reason ya gotta love this competition)
    not even going to try to guess who we will be playing with the way things have gone, edinburgh/cardiff could still lose, munster could get the try bp, saracens are still a slim possibility too. either way after that we wont fear anyone, its going to be epic!


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    #189
    shuffol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    cgpg5 wrote: »
    I think he's speaking from a Munster perspective :D

    Munster are playing with 3 2nd rows, a fly half who cant run and 2 centers who cant pass, if I were Brian McLaughlin I'd be booking the bus to the Aviva


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    #190
    its_phil
    Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    Jess16 wrote: »
    Pearson was wrong and even more wrong for awarding a penalty against a player for simply noticing him being wrong

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXoBNFOxlQM


    You shut your mouth in rugby unless your captain


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    #191
    RuggieBear
    Registered Users Posts: 17,958 ✭✭✭✭RuggieBear


    mueller is captain.

    it was clear cut dissent. penalty against. it's just compounded by the fact that pearson made a balls of the original call


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    #192
    ongarite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,241 ✭✭✭ongarite


    overshoot wrote: »
    cant decide if we were robbed or blew it but it was a fantastic 80mins of rugby and the atmosphere sounded amazing. if offered a best runner up spot id have taken it at the start of the year. (but that home qf and dumping the french powerhouse was so close! guess its one reason ya gotta love this competition)!

    I would say Ulster could have instead of should have won.
    They had 3 chances in the last 5 minutes and blew every single one of them.

    Its hard to believe this is the same Ulster team who were so off the boil earlier in the season and people were calling for McLaughlin's head.


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    #193
    Jess16
    Registered Users Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭Jess16


    its_phil wrote: »
    You shut your mouth in rugby unless your captain

    How many bad calls do you expect the players to stand by and accept when a result is riding on it? They have to play by the rules but the ref can f**k up however he sees fit?! Get real -and Muller is the captain!


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    #194
    RuggieBear
    Registered Users Posts: 17,958 ✭✭✭✭RuggieBear


    Jess16 wrote: »
    How many bad calls do you expect the players to stand by and accept when a result is riding on it? They have to play by the rules but the ref can f**k up however he sees fit?! Get real

    if the ref decides to play american football...you suck it up and play grid iron. he is the sole arbiter of the laws of the game. what he says goes.


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    #195
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Jess16 wrote: »
    its_phil wrote: »
    You shut your mouth in rugby unless your captain

    How many bad calls do you expect the players to stand by and accept when a result is riding on it? They have to play by the rules but the ref can f**k up however he sees fit?! Get real -and Muller is the captain!
    What good does it do to shout at the ref?

    What will he do? Change his mind?

    Muller was a fool to do what he did.


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    #196
    Jess16
    Registered Users Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭Jess16


    RuggieBear wrote: »
    if the ref decides to play american football...you suck it up and play grid iron. he is the sole arbiter of the laws of the game. what he says goes.

    Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make him right. This incident being a case in point


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    #197
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    Jess16 wrote: »
    Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make him right. This incident being a case in point



    Doesn't matter if he's right or not.


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    #198
    RuggieBear
    Registered Users Posts: 17,958 ✭✭✭✭RuggieBear


    Jess16 wrote: »
    Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make him right. This incident being a case in point
    true. he was wrong in most peoples opinion but it still doesn't mean muller can act like he did.


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    #199
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    RuggieBear wrote: »
    mueller is captain.

    it was clear cut dissent. penalty against. it's just compounded by the fact that pearson made a balls of the original call

    The fact that he was so strict on that aspect. "Dissent = penalty, no ifs or buts" was not in line with his reffing of the match. Which seemed to be based on ignoring as much as possible and being very very reluctant to award penalties for infringements.

    You cant defend a ref with "the law is the law" when they have upto that point shown they are incapable of implementing the law to any decent standard across the various aspects of the game.

    It was a poor call by a ref who had a very poor game. He missed the actual infringment and awarded a penalty against a captain who pointed it out. Shocking by anyone's standards in any game, disgraceful for the dying minutes of a hotly contested and crucial Heinekin cup game.


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    #200
    Jess16
    Registered Users Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭Jess16


    bleg wrote: »
    Doesn't matter if he's right or not.

    Well that's my point, there needs to be more accountability for inconsistent and shoddy decisions. There could have been an entirely different result tonight if Pearson had have gotten his call against Clermont right in the first place


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    #201
    its_phil
    Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    Jess16 wrote: »
    How many bad calls do you expect the players to stand by and accept when a result is riding on it? They have to play by the rules but the ref can f**k up however he sees fit?! Get real -and Muller is the captain!

    Sorry hands up I'm wrong. Escaped my mind that he was captain.


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    #202
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Jess16 wrote: »
    bleg wrote: »
    Doesn't matter if he's right or not.

    Well that's my point, there needs to be more accountability for inconsistent and shoddy decisions. There could have been an entirely different result tonight if Pearson had have gotten his call against Clermont right in the first place
    The referees are not accountable to the players and never have been.


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    #203
    EmeraldNK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭EmeraldNK


    It is the captain's responsibility to convey to the referee - as diplomatically as possible - the feelings/concerns of his team. Pointing out that it was a slap down and not a knock on is NOT considered dissent, unless he is abusive or disrespectful or continually badgering the referee. I'm not convinced Muller was doing any of these things...


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    #204
    Jess16
    Registered Users Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭Jess16


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    The referees are not accountable to the players and never have been.

    I never said they were and am not suggesting they should be. But I do think referees would be less likely to make such bad decisions if they were held more accountable for their mistakes, in the same way that players are


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    #205
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Jess16 wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    The referees are not accountable to the players and never have been.

    I never said they were and am not suggesting they should be. But I do think referees would be less likely to make such bad decisions if they were held more accountable for their mistakes, in the same way that players are
    And you think allowing players to scream at the referees is a way of making them more accountable? Hasn't exactly worked for soccer.


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    #206
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    And you think allowing players to scream at the referees is a way of making them more accountable? Hasn't exactly worked for soccer.

    To be fair, I felt like doing exactly the same to the referee at that point in the game.


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    #207
    EmeraldNK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭EmeraldNK


    Tox56 wrote: »
    To be fair, I felt like doing exactly the same to the referee at that point in the game.

    To be even more fair, I don't think he was screaming at him... or was he? :confused:


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    #208
    chris_d
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭chris_d


    very tough to accept that try. terrible decision from the ref, who seemed to bottle it completely in the last twenty.

    but great to see Ulster put in another performance against one of the big clubs.

    Leinster in the quarters? i could have done without that to be honest, but will be on the look out for a ticket and dusting off the shirt.



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    #209
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    EmeraldNK wrote: »
    Tox56 wrote: »
    To be fair, I felt like doing exactly the same to the referee at that point in the game.

    To be even more fair, I don't think he was screaming at him... or was he? :confused:
    He quite clearly was...


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    #210
    EmeraldNK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭EmeraldNK


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    He quite clearly was...

    I stand corrected then! :)


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    #211
    Jess16
    Registered Users Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭Jess16


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    And you think allowing players to scream at the referees is a way of making them more accountable? Hasn't exactly worked for soccer.

    Again, see here:
    Jess16 wrote: »
    I never said they were and am not suggesting they should be.

    I think poor refereeing is an issue for ERC officials to address so that players don't have to. It's all very well to vilify Muller from an armchair but in the dying moments of a hotly contested competition, I don't think it's too much to ask that the ref do his job properly


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