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ASM Clermont Auvergne v Ulster, Sat 21st Jan 2012, Stade Marcel Michelin, 3:40pm

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    #242
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    "Foul play" of that kind is a part of rugby and if you don't think it should be then you are unfortunately in a very very small minority of rugby fans. In fact as an openside flanker, I think your ideal refereeing would put me out of a much beloved hobby.

    The fact that its against the rules would kinda point to the fact that most people involved in rugby knowing its not a valid part of the game dont ya think ? Foul play is foul play, its either against the rules or it isnt. To say that this particular breaking of the rules is ok but others are not is absurd. Like I said towing the lines and playing the ref can be part of the game, but simply getting away with stuff isnt indicative of player ability its just simply possible to do those things when a ref isnt capable of picking them up. No different than dangerous play being called "great" when its not spotted.
    It's completely different to foul play of a dangerous nature which needs to be watched and penalised very stringently.

    Not in the context it isnt. If your argument is that Hines is a great player because he does what he can get away with then dangerous play is part of your argument. Picking and choosing which laws are acceptable to break nullifies the entire argument of giving the player credit for creating an advantage for their team.
    I do think there is an irony here however, in that (and I might be getting you mixed up here) you were arguing against Warburton's card, and now you're arguing on behalf of stricter refereeing! haha

    That discussion has absolutely nothing to do with this one. That was about the options available to the ref in dealing with an offence. This is about a referee failing to do anything and then calling a player great because of it. Is the fact your laughing at me despite not having any clue what we are talking about ironic or would that just be classed as trolling ?


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    #243
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    The ability to be able to read a referee and adapt your limitations to push the edge of the law is absolutely key in rugby. Many of our greatest players have had that ability. Hell Munster won two Heineken Cups by consistently flaunting breakdown laws (sealing off, rolling away, etc.). Jamie Heaslip is particularly good at blocking off the ball and did so for a try in last year's heineken cup final. It certainly comes down to individual ability and not blind luck.

    If you can't see a difference between pushing technical rules in a benign fashion and violently putting the opposition at risk that is a shame, but luckilly most fans, players and referees can.

    It's a part of rugby, and a part most fans embrace and enjoy. If you don't then you're either going to have to make peace with it or find another sport. It's very much part of the reason our sport is regulated by laws and not rules.


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    #244
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    The ability to be able to read a referee and adapt your limitations to push the edge of the law is absolutely key in rugby. Many of our greatest players have had that ability. Hell Munster won two Heineken Cups by consistently flaunting breakdown laws (sealing off, rolling away, etc.). Jamie Heaslip is particularly good at blocking off the ball and did so for a try in last year's heineken cup final. It certainly comes down to individual ability and not blind luck.

    Like I said towing the line is part of the game but blatant infringements like Hines holding the players on the ground and clearing the way for the try are just that, blatant infringements. You dont look at it in awe of what the player did you look at it in awe of what the ref didnt do. The reason the ref doesnt pick up these things most of the time is because they are done with skill and subtlety so as to not attract the attention of the ref.
    If you can't see a difference between pushing technical rules in a benign fashion and violently putting the opposition at risk that is a shame, but luckilly most fans, players and referees can.

    In the context of assigning greatness to a player for a blatant infringement simply because it gave their team an advantage (as was the argument put forward) then there is no difference. Its a breach of the rules for the benefit of the team.
    It's a part of rugby, and a part most fans embrace and enjoy. If you don't then you're either going to have to make peace with it or find another sport. It's very much part of the reason our sport is regulated by laws and not rules.

    If a law is broken then a ref has to act on it, there are options in what he can do to deal with it but it has to be dealt with. Missing a blatant infringement is a failure on the refs part. Calling a player great because the referee is incompetent is just simply absurd. Hines took the piss the other night and the ref messed up, thats all it was.


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