How does one get buried/cremated without a mass?

vicwatson

Hi,

Was at a funeral this a.m. and It got me thinking, so say you die, and you don't want anything to do with a church ceremony, can you just go say from the hospital/funeral home to the graveyard/crematorium? Are graveyards (allbethem run by the local council) consecrated ground? I think our local one is blessed annually by the local catholic priest so.....

I'm thinking that say if one doesn't want a mass and all that is there some type of civil service that can be done and where do you go if you don't want to be cremated or buried in a catholic graveyard ??? Does perhaps the undertaker complete paperwork for the civil authorities ??

I know there are now some burial places that are non religious etc but of old what was done?

getz

vicwatson wrote: »

Hi,

Was at a funeral this a.m. and It got me thinking, so say you die, and you don't want anything to do with a church ceremony, can you just go say from the hospital/funeral home to the graveyard/crematorium? Are graveyards (allbethem run by the local council) consecrated ground? I think our local one is blessed annually by the local catholic priest so.....

I'm thinking that say if one doesn't want a mass and all that is there some type of civil service that can be done and where do you go if you don't want to be cremated or buried in a catholic graveyard ??? Does perhaps the undertaker complete paperwork for the civil authorities ??

I know there are now some burial places that are non religious etc but of old what was done?

burial at sea,there are companies that provide that service,or piss off the IRA [that ones free]

Beruthiel

vicwatson wrote: »

can you just go say from the hospital/funeral home to the graveyard/crematorium?

I'm pretty sure you can do just about anything within reason.

I'm thinking that say if one doesn't want a mass and all that is there some type of civil service that can be done

A Humanist ceremony?
A knees up in the pub?

where do you go if you don't want to be cremated or buried in a catholic graveyard ???

The Green Graveyard

vicwatson

getz wrote: »

burial at sea,there are companies that provide that service,or piss off the IRA [that ones free]

Wow, real helpful, real helpful:rolleyes:

Simon201

Just go in this. The church just won't let you in!




Sorry I know it's not after hours but this company is genuine. Fascinating! http://www.crazycoffins.co.uk

Seriously though I'm surprised there isn't places which are completely non religious here. I'd say in UK half the funerals do exactly as the OP has stated. In fact that's exactly what I'll be doing. (not in a skip coffin though!)

Dades

Search function is helpful though.

burial...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70106587

leposean

vicwatson wrote: »

Hi,

Was at a funeral this a.m. and It got me thinking, so say you die, and you don't want anything to do with a church ceremony, can you just go say from the hospital/funeral home to the graveyard/crematorium? Are graveyards (allbethem run by the local council) consecrated ground? I think our local one is blessed annually by the local catholic priest so.....

I'm thinking that say if one doesn't want a mass and all that is there some type of civil service that can be done and where do you go if you don't want to be cremated or buried in a catholic graveyard ??? Does perhaps the undertaker complete paperwork for the civil authorities ??

I know there are now some burial places that are non religious etc but of old what was done?

My mother passed away in June 2007, she didn't believe in god or anything for that matter, she wanted to be cremated and that was it.

I knew my local Undertaker on a personal level and he told me about a civil ceremony. I believe at the time he was the only person either in the Republic or in Dublin who could perform it.

It involved the deceased going from the funeral home to Mt. Jerome cremetorium. There the Undertaker (having had a meeting with myself and my sister) performed the ceremony in the cremetorium. To best describe it it was a this is your life type on thing.

She was carried in to a song and placed at the alter(its not an alter I don't know the actual name). The Undertaker then started and then a friend read a poem written for my mam. More about her life, then a song played for her (my sister and her favourite song) Then more about the life, marrying my dad, me and my sister being born. Her jobs and hobbies. How she got seperated from my dad and found love again (her and her boyfriends song was then played) My friend gave a small speech about her and then I gave my speech from the family. The Undertaker then finished the ceremony and the curtain closed in front of the coffin. We all then went to our local pub for drinks and sandwiches.

Not a single bit of religion at all. For the record while the guy who did it all is an Undertaker when doing the ceremony etc he's not referred to as an Undertaker he's something else I can't remember what.

If your looking for this type of ceremony the company is Patrick O'Donovan and Sons in Sallynoggin, Co. Dublin. Michael O'Donovan is the civil ceremonist.

robindch

vicwatson wrote: »

[...] of old what was done?

Here's what they used to do in Donegal:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/7588035.stm

robinph

Simon201 wrote: »

Just go in this. The church just won't let you in!




Sorry I know it's not after hours but this company is genuine. Fascinating! http://www.crazycoffins.co.uk

Seriously though I'm surprised there isn't places which are completely non religious here. I'd say in UK half the funerals do exactly as the OP has stated. In fact that's exactly what I'll be doing. (not in a skip coffin though!)

Was a piece on the beeb lunchtime news about them today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16631331

Beruthiel

leposean wrote: »

She was carried in to a song and placed at the alter(its not an alter I don't know the actual name). The Undertaker then started and then a friend read a poem written for my mam. More about her life, then a song played for her (my sister and her favourite song) Then more about the life, marrying my dad, me and my sister being born. Her jobs and hobbies. How she got seperated from my dad and found love again (her and her boyfriends song was then played) My friend gave a small speech about her and then I gave my speech from the family. The Undertaker then finished the ceremony and the curtain closed in front of the coffin. We all then went to our local pub for drinks and sandwiches.

That sounds so lovely and personal. A billion times nicer than having some priest, who doesn't even know the person, drone on.

RichieC

I'm hoping space burials will be feasible before I kick the farm..

jerry2623

Was at a cremation in Mount Jerome which is an old Church and everything there looks like a church which you pay Mr Stafford and Co to use BTW

You do not need to have any ceremony. All you need is a Death Certificate signed by a Doctor and on you go and do what ever you want.

You must get permission from your local council if you want to bury someone without they having been cremated.
I personal love the whole church thing with the music, incense and a sense of solemn occasion.
I do hate people going on forever about how wonderful someone was and bringing rubbish to the Altar such as CDs and Football Jerseys and God knows what other tat someone had.
I always picture the person in the Box cringing with embarrassment

However what ever lights ones boat

getz

vicwatson wrote: »

Wow, real helpful, real helpful:rolleyes:

listen to this[i meen read] in the mid 60s i sailed with manchester liners across the north atlantic to canada/USA,we all had a good thing going on burials at sea, the captain would read a short service ,and we would push he body overboard,the stewards and deck officers would stand around looking sad and interested,as the chief steward filmed it [to send to the grief ridden relatives]as i say we were on a good thing because we would earn £10 for 10 minutes work,[that was a weeks wages in those days,] but not all was great some times we would not get a body ,we got just ashes,one wrong move in the swirling wind and you would be covered in white ash and i can assure you that it dont taste that good.

robindch

RichieC wrote: »

I'm hoping space burials will be feasible before I kick the farm..

Check out number one here:

http://www.cracked.com/article_16502_the-5-creepiest-death-rituals-from-around-world.html

GLaDOS

Beruthiel wrote: »

That sounds so lovely and personal. A billion times nicer than having some priest, who doesn't even know the person, drone on.

With half the ceremony about God, instead of the person who's just died.

I hate church funerals, make my skin crawl.

RichieC

robindch wrote: »

Check out number one here:

http://www.cracked.com/article_16502_the-5-creepiest-death-rituals-from-around-world.html

They're all creepy apart from number one... why was that in the list? it isn't creepy!

Sarky

ScienceNerd wrote: »

With half the ceremony about God, instead of the person who's just died.

I hate church funerals, make my skin crawl.

And how God is the ONLY thing that'll help with the loss, in that vaguely accusatory tone that tries to make you feel like it's partly your fault.

As if people aren't resilient enough to deal with anything by themselves. It's despicable, really.

jerry2623

ScienceNerd wrote: »

With half the ceremony about God, instead of the person who's just died.

I hate church funerals, make my skin crawl.

Actually most of the church Ceremony is about resurrection and new beginning for the person who is dead and is if done properly a sense of hope and celebration for the person gone .

The Humanist one is about saying a last goodbye to never meet again which is rather depressing when you think about it

Beruthiel

jerry2623 wrote: »

Actually most of the church Ceremony is about resurrection and new beginning for the person who is dead and is if done properly a sense of hope and celebration for the person gone .

Resurrection, new beginning? All lies.

The Humanist one is about saying a last goodbye to never meet again which is rather depressing when you think about it

Having someone you love die is depressing. At least the humanists tell the truth.

Penn

jerry2623 wrote: »

Actually most of the church Ceremony is about resurrection and new beginning for the person who is dead and is if done properly a sense of hope and celebration for the person gone.

The Humanist one is about saying a last goodbye to never meet again which is rather depressing when you think about it

That's weird. I don't think I've ever seen people being happy that their loved one is dead at a church funeral.

No matter where the funeral is, it will always be 'rather depressing'. Even if you believe in an afterlife, it's a while before the comfort of thinking you'll see them again in Heaven kicks in.

"But there's one thing in life that no man can avoid
This thing will leave the hearts of loved ones empty and void.
Death will ALWAYS cause hurt and pain
It can take weeks before a smile is on your face again
Sure when reminiscing there can be great happiness
But at the immediate time there's searing pain and nothing less."
Tommy C - dan le sac vs Scroobius Pip

seamus

jerry2623 wrote: »

The Humanist one is about saying a last goodbye to never meet again which is rather depressing when you think about it

It's intellectually more honest because the actual fact is that nobody knows what happens so you may as well say goodbye as if it was the last time, because it probably is.

It allows for a far more personal and emotionally open celebration of the person's life because nobody is tip-toeing around death and making claims of the deceased still being alive and looking down on everyone.

I personally feel that religious belief in the afterlife causes more grief for the people left behind, not comfort, because it delays the process of moving on and accepting the death.

jerry2623

Beruthiel wrote: »

Resurrection, new beginning? All lies.



Having someone you love die is depressing. At least the humanists tell the truth.

Ah But Mr Beruthiel that is something neither of us know for sure and if we did we would be so much wiser than everybody else !
As it is we will both take our chance and try to respect one another in the mean time

Delirium

jerry2623 wrote: »

Actually most of the church Ceremony is about resurrection and new beginning for the person who is dead and is if done properly a sense of hope and celebration for the person gone .

I've been to a few church ceremonies, and yet to see a resurrection happen. I even went prepared with my boomstick :P:pac:

jerry2623 wrote: »

Ah But Mr Beruthiel that is something neither of us know for sure and if we did we would be so much wiser than everybody else !
As it is we will both take our chance and try to respect one another in the mean time

Hi, "Mr" Beruthiel :pac:

Sarky

I wouldn't call her a lady either >_>

<runs>

Beruthiel

jerry2623 wrote:

Ah But Mr Beruthiel that is something neither of us know for sure

With zero evidence to the contrary, I got to say, I'm pretty sure.



We will meet again Sarky....

Signed,
Mr. B

Ghost Buster

leposean wrote: »

My mother passed away in June 2007, she didn't believe in god or anything for that matter, she wanted to be cremated and that was it.

I knew my local Undertaker on a personal level and he told me about a civil ceremony. I believe at the time he was the only person either in the Republic or in Dublin who could perform it.

It involved the deceased going from the funeral home to Mt. Jerome cremetorium. There the Undertaker (having had a meeting with myself and my sister) performed the ceremony in the cremetorium. To best describe it it was a this is your life type on thing.

She was carried in to a song and placed at the alter(its not an alter I don't know the actual name). The Undertaker then started and then a friend read a poem written for my mam. More about her life, then a song played for her (my sister and her favourite song) Then more about the life, marrying my dad, me and my sister being born. Her jobs and hobbies. How she got seperated from my dad and found love again (her and her boyfriends song was then played) My friend gave a small speech about her and then I gave my speech from the family. The Undertaker then finished the ceremony and the curtain closed in front of the coffin. We all then went to our local pub for drinks and sandwiches.

Not a single bit of religion at all. For the record while the guy who did it all is an Undertaker when doing the ceremony etc he's not referred to as an Undertaker he's something else I can't remember what.

If your looking for this type of ceremony the company is Patrick O'Donovan and Sons in Sallynoggin, Co. Dublin. Michael O'Donovan is the civil ceremonist.

My wife lost her Mother and a brother both within the last 5 years and both had non religious funerals in Mt Jerome. They were just as you discribed but without a celebrant. We did it all our selves.

GLaDOS

jerry2623 wrote: »

Actually most of the church Ceremony is about resurrection and new beginning for the person who is dead and is if done properly a sense of hope and celebration for the person gone .

I've been to three funerals in the last year or so, and at each one I marked that it seemed like they were almost using the occasion as an advertisement for god. I suppose it would be interpreted differently from a Christian perspective, but that's how I took it.

jerry2623

Ghost Buster wrote: »

My wife lost her Mother and a brother both within the last 5 years and both had non religious funerals in Mt Jerome. They were just as you discribed but without a celebrant. We did it all our selves.

Never can get my head around the fact MT JEROME is/was a church . you would have thought they might have had a little bit more imagination than just to copy the Christians .
At least the one here in Cork is a former Ammunition store for the English Army while I have never been there everybody who has says it is a great spot and done very well for what it is

jerry2623

Beruthiel wrote: »

With zero evidence to the contrary, I got to say, I'm pretty sure.



We will meet again Sarky....

Signed,
Mr. B

Come back to me or send a message when you get to the 100% sure

jerry2623

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I've been to three funerals in the last year or so, and at each one I marked that it seemed like they were almost using the occasion as an advertisement for god. I suppose it would be interpreted differently from a Christian perspective, but that's how I took it.

If they were done in a Christian Church you can be fairly certain God will get a mention somewhere along the line. same thing happens if you go to a mosque except they change the name and women are not allowed in the main body of the place

Robert ninja

jerry2623 wrote: »

Come back to me or send a message when you get to the 100% sure

BRB

Beruthiel

jerry2623 wrote: »

Come back to me or send a message when you get to the 100% sure

Sure. I'll be the very first dead person to come back with the good news.

Zombie Beruthiel.

Dades

Beruthiel wrote: »

Sure. I'll be the very first dead person to come back with the good news.

But with more Beruthiel...

Peregrinus

Non-religious funerals are common here in Australia, and any undertaker can organize one for you.

The usual form - though this is not mandatory - is that you have a civil celebrant. (Anyone can set themselves up as a civil celebrant for funerals, though in practice people usually combine it with being a civil celebrant for weddings, which requires training and licensing.) The celebrant talks to the family about what kind of ritual they would like, and usually has some suggestions for them if they haven’t thought about it, and are too shell-shocked to come up with any ideas of their own. The venue is usually a funeral home, but the municipal cemeteries also have rooms and halls suitable for the purpose. Typical elements include a narration of the life of the deceased, a photomontage set to music, sometimes a eulogy or address by one or more family members, an opportunity for people to come forward and lay flowers on the coffin. Usually the service ends with the coffin gliding through a curtain or whatever, and a burial or cremation takes place later, privately. Tea and sangers afterwards, and all funeral homes and cemeteries are set up for this in a room just off the room where the funeral service was held. No gargle, since the venues are unlicensed. There seems to be no tradition of adjourning to a pub.

I imagine, as nonbelief becomes more mainstream in Ireland - especially among the older age groups - more and more undertakers will meet the need for civil funerals. It will be up to humanists and nonbelievers to develop forms and rituals that people will find meaningful and supportive.

There’s no guarantee of this. When they become routine, as they are in Australia, civil funerals span the same range as religious funerals. I’ve been to some deeply depressing civil funerals, conducted by celebrants who never met the deceased and who simply went through the motions, having failed to get the shocked and grieving family to communicate enough to enable them to conduct a more meaningful funeral. And I’ve been to some wonderful, supportive, healing civil funerals.

It’s not uncommon, incidentally, for civil funerals in Australia to have a minor religious element - the Lord’s Prayer is said, or a favourite hymn is sung. A civil funeral is a common choice not just for people who are positively non-religious, but also for people who are simply unchurched, but who have some degree of religious faith, or openness. Or who are just trying to hedge their bets? Or maybe the religious elements are included for the benefit of religious family members.

Fortyniner

OK vicwatson, I hope I can give you some practical advice to help you. The Humanist Association of Ireland helps many people like you every year, with a service which celebrates the life of the deceased, and involves family and friends in the event. Time is given to meet you and your family's wishes, and I can assure you from my own experiences at such funerals within my family that we all left feeling happy and relaxed, with many a good memory to cherish.

Demand for such services is increasing all the time.

To find out more, do contact them on info@humanism.ie.

Fortyniner

Humanist celebrant Brian Whiteside talks a bit about Humanist secular funeral ceremonies on the Mooney show on RTE Radio 1 at the following link http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_mooney.xml

Peregrinus

In fact, I see that the website of the Humanist Association of Ireland has a page describing the support and assistance they can give in organising and conducting humanist funeral ceremonies:

http://www.humanism.ie/ceremonies/celebrating-a-life

There's a link on that page to a brochure that can be downloaded.