Dublin Literature? from Final Year Student.

Emilyw

Quick question:

Think of Dublin city in the context of literature:

Immediately ... what comes to your mind?

emeraldstar

Are you asking people to do your homework for you?

Emilyw

No, I am conducting research for my dissertation.

Ellian

James Joyce. Ulysses. Or is that the cliched answer?

Emilyw

Thank you.

Niles

Apart from Ulysses, Seán O'Casey's 'Dublin trilogy'; Shadow of a Gunman, Juno and the Paycock, The Plough and the Stars.

In terms of more recent literature Roddy Doyle's Barrytown books spring to mind.

Mardy Bum

Emilyw wrote: »

No, I am conducting research for my dissertation.

I take it your research is in the field of criticism so if you are a doing a thesis on literature you do not conduct 'research' by asking people what comes to mind about when they think of 'Dublin literature'.

Just a word of advice choose a different topic and come up with a thesis statement otherwise you will fail, sorry to put it bluntly.

Denerick

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I take it your research is in the field of criticism so if you are a doing a thesis on literature you do not conduct 'research' by asking people what comes to mind about when they think of 'Dublin literature'.

Just a word of advice choose a different topic and come up with a thesis statement otherwise you will fail, sorry to put it bluntly.

Stop ruining this thread with such seriousness. Perhaps all she is doing is appealing for opinions?

I'd echo Joyce of course. Though John Banville does an unusally good job of capturing late 80s Dublin in 'The Book of Evidence'.

Emilyw

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I take it your research is in the field of criticism so if you are a doing a thesis on literature you do not conduct 'research' by asking people what comes to mind about when they think of 'Dublin literature'.

Just a word of advice choose a different topic and come up with a thesis statement otherwise you will fail, sorry to put it bluntly.

This is unofficial research for my dissertation for my own personal reasons. Additionally, my research is not in the "field of criticism".

Without prior background on myself... and my chosen field of study I am afraid you are in no position to offer me such brash critique.

Emilyw

Denerick wrote: »

Stop ruining this thread with such seriousness. Perhaps all she is doing is appealing for opinions?

I'd echo Joyce of course. Though John Banville does an unusally good job of capturing late 80s Dublin in 'The Book of Evidence'.

I must read 'The Book of Evidence'.

Thank you Denerick.

Mardy Bum

Emilyw wrote: »

This is unofficial research for my dissertation for my own personal reasons. Additionally, my research is not in the "field of criticism".

Without prior background on myself... and my chosen field of study I am afraid you are in no position to offer me such brash critique.

Its friendly advice from someone who knows what they are talking about. Heres a few that would be considered to pertain to Dublin - Strumpet City by James Plunkett, Sean O' Casey's plays, Joyce's Dubliners, A Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man, Ulysses, Stephen Hero, Finnegans Wake. Yeats poetry such as "Easter, 1916" "September 1913" plus a lot more, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Flann O Brien's At Swin Two Birds, George Moore's A Drama in Muslin, Paul Murray Skippy Dies.
GB Shaw and Wilde despite writing primarily about England are inextricably linked to Dublin. Thomas Kilroy's The Shape of Metal, Tom Murphy's The Gigli Concert.

Emilyw

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Its friendly advice from someone who knows what they are talking about. Heres a few that would be considered to pertain to Dublin - Strumpet City by James Plunkett, Sean O' Casey's plays, Joyce's Dubliners, A Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man, Ulysses, Stephen Hero, Finnegans Wake. Yeats poetry such as "Easter, 1916" "September 1913" plus a lot more, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Flann O Brien's At Swin Two Birds, George Moore's A Drama in Muslin, Paul Murray Skippy Dies.
GB Shaw and Wilde despite writing primarily about England are inextricably linked to Dublin. Thomas Kilroy's The Shape of Metal, Tom Murphy's The Gigli Concert.

Thank you.

I do have a clear thesis statement. However, I am in the process of extensively editing a large segment of work completed (I was dissatisfied)...

I was stuck on a paragraph and required inspiration.

gutenberg

I'd echo the above suggestions, and add Roddy Doyle's Barrytown trilogy for an insight into 'working class' Dublin - plus parts of it are absolutely hilarious (to a born&bred Dub!).

itsyuranan

Anything by Joyce really. Might drive you mad though:D

Denerick

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Bram Stoker's Dracula

I recently read Dracula. The link with Dublin begins and ends with the fact that Stoker is from there. Perhaps you were mislead by the 'one city, one book' campaign a couple of years back?

Mercurius

Strumpet City?

or 'Dublin' by Sean Moncrieff?

Mardy Bum

Denerick wrote: »

I recently read Dracula. The link with Dublin begins and ends with the fact that Stoker is from there. Perhaps you were mislead by the 'one city, one book' campaign a couple of years back?

A postcolonial reading of Dracula illuminates the link with Ireland. Stoker was from Dublin but wrote the book in London and so was an outsider in this society. It is more the life experience of an Irishman in the nineteenth century abroad however I thought it a worthy inclusion as the OPs question is quite open to interpretation.

It is a very important novel in the canon of Anglo Irish literature.

Toby Take a Bow

Skippy Dies is set in what is Blackrock College, as far as I know. If you wanted something a little more modern. I haven't read it yet, though, so wouldn't be able to say for certain.

Mardy Bum wrote: »

A postcolonial reading of Dracula illuminates the link with Ireland. Stoker was from Dublin but wrote the book in London and so was an outsider in this society. It is more the life experience of an Irishman in the nineteenth century abroad however I thought it a worthy inclusion as the OPs question is quite open to interpretation.

It is a very important novel in the canon of Anglo Irish literature.

No argument re the important novel but when you say it's about the life experience of an Irishman in London, is there a direct link between characters and the Irish or is it more a broad theme?

Niles

I get the idea of the outsider in society and all that, but I still wouldn't really view Dracula as being a 'Dublin' novel, despite its author being a Dubliner.

Einhard

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

Skippy Dies is set in what is Blackrock College, as far as I know. If you wanted something a little more modern. I haven't read it yet, though, so wouldn't be able to say for certain.

You should read it, it's excellent.

Mardy Bum

Niles wrote: »

I get the idea of the outsider in society and all that, but I still wouldn't really view Dracula as being a 'Dublin' novel, despite its author being a Dubliner.

In a postcolonial reading of it the novel is taken as an allegory of Ireland's social, political and cultural upheavals at the end of the nineteenth century. One interpretation sees Dracula as representing the Anglo Irish Ascendancy. Some see Dracula as Charles Stewart Parnell. Others see Dracula and Szgany as representing the radical Land Leaguers or the gombeen men of the period.
Transylvania is also a clear parrallel to Ireland.

The Dublin literature thesis could be tackled from the Charles Stewart Parnell view.

chasmcb

I would add a vote for Anthony Cronin's 'The Life of Riley' which provides a very funny, sharp portrayal of Dublin bohemia of the early 1960's. It was out of print for ages but New Island republished it not long ago.

wilkie2006

Einhard wrote: »

You should read it, it's excellent.

Really? I found it very disappointing. I felt its setting was really anonymous. Fine, the characters identify the place as Dublin/Blackrock College, but I thought the book lacked soul; the characters, language, ideas... everything seemed so generic, like any city.

OP, when I think of Dublin and literature I always come back to the great boozers, particularly Behan and Flann O'Brien (and Grogan's on William street)

PurpleBee

I think of Raglan Road and Patrick Kavanagh prowling the streets of Dublin.

allprops

Declan Hughes' Loy books are a good trip around contemporary Dublin

allprops

PurpleBee wrote: »

I think of Raglan Road and Patrick Kavanagh prowling the streets of Dublin.

A little off topic, but I always found that one of his worst poems, seriously self-indulgent, self pitying and highly misogynistic. Canal poems wonderful though!

PurpleBee

allprops wrote: »

A little off topic, but I always found that one of his worst poems, seriously self-indulgent, self pitying and highly misogynistic. Canal poems wonderful though!

Yeah definitely has a self-indulgent gloss to it. I just read over it again, no wonder she dumped him!

Denerick

Mardy Bum wrote: »

In a postcolonial reading of it the novel is taken as an allegory of Ireland's social, political and cultural upheavals at the end of the nineteenth century. One interpretation sees Dracula as representing the Anglo Irish Ascendancy. Some see Dracula as Charles Stewart Parnell. Others see Dracula and Szgany as representing the radical Land Leaguers or the gombeen men of the period.
Transylvania is also a clear parrallel to Ireland.

The Dublin literature thesis could be tackled from the Charles Stewart Parnell view.

Literary criticism - not for the faint hearted. Or the cynical.

Mardy Bum

Denerick wrote: »

Literary criticism - not for the faint hearted. Or the cynical.

Yes, all literature is as black and white as Dan Brown and Ceceilia Ahern.

Denerick

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Yes, all literature is as black and white as Dan Brown and Ceceilia Ahern.

Ok.

Charles Stewart Parnell and Dracula.

I get it. A splendid PHD thesis.

Its just a pity that any historian worth his salt would completely gut such a theory within two minutes.

Mardy Bum

Denerick wrote: »

Ok.

Charles Stewart Parnell and Dracula.

I get it. A splendid PHD thesis.

Its just a pity that any historian worth his salt would completely gut such a theory within two minutes.

I don't follow your argument here completely though I have an idea that you are attacking literary criticism while Dracula is only an after thought.
Are you saying historians are in some way superior to literary critics? If you are well that is a something that philosophers from Aristotle to Diderot to Nietzsche among many more completely disagree with and find the fictive author's account of 'history' much more illuminating.
I was only putting forward a thought which the OP may like to pick up seeing as they are doing a thesis on English literature.

Denerick

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I don't follow your argument here completely though I have an idea that you are attacking literary criticism while Dracula is only an after thought.
Are you saying historians are in some way superior to literary critics? If you are well that is a something that philosophers from Aristotle to Diderot to Nietzsche among many more completely disagree with and find the fictive author's account of 'history' much more illuminating.
I was only putting forward a thought which the OP may like to pick up seeing as they are doing a thesis on English literature.

I think that particular theory is unfounded and based on a few rather obvious parallels (Transylvania, rural, superstitious peasantry = Ireland?) (Dracula, aristocratic... = Parnell?) Its a load of nonsense. Its the kind of stuff someone invents so they can throw together a PHD thesis. I don't really blame them though, there is only so much you can really say about a book after all, eventually you have to create the must ludicrous arguments in order just to survive. I think cynicism is a virtue and sorely lacking in most English Literature university departments.

Namedropping philosophers isn't a substitute for proper debate by the way. I advise we drop this thing.

Mardy Bum

Denerick wrote: »

I think that particular theory is unfounded and based on a few rather obvious parallels (Transylvania, rural, superstitious peasantry = Ireland?) (Dracula, aristocratic... = Parnell?) Its a load of nonsense. Its the kind of stuff someone invents so they can throw together a PHD thesis. I don't really blame them though, there is only so much you can really say about a book after all, eventually you have to create the must ludicrous arguments in order just to survive. I think cynicism is a virtue and sorely lacking in most English Literature university departments.

Namedropping philosophers isn't a substitute for proper debate by the way. I advise we drop this thing.

Agreed yes its not the place for a debate as you seem to already have a closed perspective on it and an obvious dislike of criticism to boot. The namedropping was because I didn't really want to get into the debate either but wanted to highlight a point regardless. Nobody would consider this as a PhD thesis as it has been argued quite thoroughly at this stage by a number of high profile academics over the last sixty years. Its fine to disagree with the argument that an expert has carefully examined if you are very well versed in the area yourself, but to also claim it is ludicrous is ignorant otherwise.

If you talk to any well known and respected artist/writer (I mean proper writers i.e not Dan Brown) about their work you will soon realise there is a hell of a lot more going on than most mere mortals would ever work out.

If this comes across as tetchy it is not suppose to be.

Denerick

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Agreed yes its not the place for a debate as you seem to already have a closed perspective on it and an obvious dislike of criticism to boot.

My perspective is not closed, I just think its a rubbish theory. What I think of the various schools of thought now fashionable in English Literature departments is somewhat seperate.

If you talk to any well known and respected artist/writer (I mean proper writers i.e not Dan Brown) about their work you will soon realise there is a hell of a lot more going on than most mere mortals would ever work out.

This is the second time you've pulled out this bizarre Dan Brown thing. The lady doth protest too much. As regards to the 'hell of a lot more going on', I really have to question what you're getting at. I may find the minutae dissection of literature to be lacking in taste (Failing to see the forest for the trees) and as someone with a background in history I also get annoyed when literary theorists confuse cause with effect, but regardless.

I'll allow you the final word, I'm holding back quite a bit here, feel an undignified urge to say things that would get me banned.

Mardy Bum

Denerick wrote: »

My perspective is not closed, I just think its a rubbish theory. What I think of the various schools of thought now fashionable in English Literature departments is somewhat seperate.

This is the second time you've pulled out this bizarre Dan Brown thing. The lady doth protest too much. As regards to the 'hell of a lot more going on', I really have to question what you're getting at. I may find the minutae dissection of literature to be lacking in taste (Failing to see the forest for the trees) and as someone with a background in history I also get annoyed when literary theorists confuse cause with effect, but regardless.

I'll allow you the final word, I'm holding back quite a bit here, feel an undignified urge to say things that would get me banned.

Ok I apologise, my posts were tetchy ( and slightly pompous) on re-reading and I didn't mean for anything to be construed as an attack on you.

Dan Brown is my go to for authors that have one purpose and are not trying to create a piece of art which illuminates humanity or anything close.

What I mean by "hell of a lot..." is that you may think a work is relatively simple and straight forward but underneath this lies a world waiting to be discovered by the keen observer. Oscar Wilde's art is testament to this. Most great writers were avid literary critics and theorists and so these roots have to be examined and dissected otherwise what is the point of the work.

Hermy

The Gingerman by J.P. Dunleavy