Fighting Dogs

boodee

What do you do when an off lead dog approaches and starts a fight with your dog. It happened me a while ago and i have to say i'm nervous ever since. I just froze and max(gsd) did defend himself, it was all over in a few seconds so i didn't have to intervene.
When I got the rottie first there was a few fights and I just used the mop to separate them, I was calm so it passed over quickly.
I'm not so calm now, there are 3 dogs on my road that I hate passing, as Max gets older, he's more inclined to engage.

What do I do when approached......when you can see what's going to happen..ie snarly dog creeping up with teeth bared...not too pleasent, iykwim

Zapperzy

Well at home the best thing to do is a bucket of water over the two of them, don't intervene with your hands as you will most likely get bitten. When out walking it's hard to say what to do once a fight has broken out as buckets of water aren't generally to hand. I have read that you could grab the back legs and pull them out and up from under him (bit hard with a gsd but with a small terrier sized dog) but again if your not quick and nimble enough you could end up bitten. I know a lot of people carry sticks (or riding crops) with them out walking for this reason.

I suppose the best cure is prevention, I suppose the 3 dogs your scared of are loose and on your walking route? First of all let the owner know and ask them to keep them confined, you could also try throwing a handful of treats at them everytime you pass. Or introducing Max to them in a more controlled environment (eg. on a walk together if the owner would be willing to walk with you once or twice).

Spunk84

If it's a dog grab it by the balls and squeeze! You'll see the dog drop

sarah_louise

Bring a stick, it looks like you're just going to a park to throw it for your dog, but in reality it's for protection to hit a dog if it comes. I was always told to do this, but never found a big enough stick.

Or scream, whatever comes to mind, or/and stamp your foot and stand your ground. Because if you walk it shows the dog your scared, and if he's going to attack he's going to do it better with both yours backs turned. Just look directly at them and yell, (yes you might feel like an idiot first time doing it) this makes the dog focus on you rather than Max, and they know you aren't afraid of them and going to stand your ground, and should back down. Try and do this just at the start, when they spot your dog or start to come forward, to jerk them out of it.

Also, just a tip. Don't tighten your grip on the lead, it gives off the total wrong message to Max and to the other dog. It actually makes Max more agitated, because then he knows you're afraid and has to protect you.

In the house, bucket of water is always the best.

Wibbs

Spunk84 wrote: »

If it's a dog grab it by the balls and squeeze! You'll see the dog drop

Yea great tactic. Try that with a large breed and you'll experience at first hand our countries emergency medical services. I'll see you in the ward. I'll even bring grapes.

Cherry Blossom

Spunk84 wrote: »

If it's a dog grab it by the balls and squeeze! You'll see the dog drop

When you come back from your ban, have a read of the forum charter.

Cherry Blossom

Zapperzy wrote: »

Well at home the best thing to do is a bucket of water over the two of them,

I used to have a seven year old neighbour years ago who literally had his throat ripped out by two collies after copying an adult doing this with two dogs that constantly went at each other, one pinned him to the ground and the other grabbed him by the throat and shook. Thankfully he made a full recovery but it was touch and go.

My solution to this problem as you cannot train someone else dogs is to report the owners of the dogs. If these are true attacks these dogs have no business roaming around in public. Do not aggravate an aggressive dog by staring it in the face or hitting it with something. You can put yourself between it and your own dog as it approachs, once it has already got to your dog it is too late.

boodee

It was never really an issue until I got Max. The rotti is older and nothing rises her. I just don't like the way Max stands across me, I know this is his protective instinct but my last GSD did this to and he eventually became so over protective no one could even look at me without him growling.

My trouble with max only began after i signed up to a dog training course. The first night we just had a handlers talk. The second night you brought the dog. As I walked into the trainers yard HIS GSD, approached and growled/snarled at us. Max growled back and a tiny fight ensued, lasting about ten seconds but it felt like ten years. The trainer emerged and put his dog away. I was shaken and Max was distressed. The class was sh*te as we were both too shaken.

At the end of the class we brought our dogs into the middle of the hall to meet, Max growled at another dofg and the trainer told me to go back in the corner,,,so embarassing, I actually felt sorry for the poor dog.

I said it to the trainer about it not being a great start and he just fobbed it off. He said you get one of two types of gsds, they are either very intelligent and easy to train, or stupid, just like the trainers can be. Sometimes you get a bad dog and a good trainer and vice versa. Other times you get both, meaning a bad dog and trainer....he smiled at me as he said this and look all condescending at us both. I said something about Max being a Vom Quinberg(just in passing, I know nothing about breeds or lines and wasn't saying he should be anything special) and he said they were useless. Needless to say my dog handling confidence was through the roof after the whole session!!!!!

The following week I couldn't make it and he said there would be no point in coming back as Max wasn't going to be able to learn much as he is older and presumably, i'm not very good....just my impression....but by all meanas we'd benefit from private lessons....at an extra cost i'm sure.

The course was €120 down the drain. I didn't take up issue with him as I had too much on at the time and didn't want the added stress.

So I'm meeting two friends and their dogs tommorow for a walk and dog social.

Cherry Blossom

OP, tbh it sounds like your dog is the instigator of these arguments with other dogs, so that is something that you can work on. I understand your frustration - there are plenty of idiot so-called dog trainers out there, at least this one admitted their stupidity (:p). It sounds like he needs a lot of socialisation. I would recommend keeping him at a good distance from the other dogs on this walk until he is more comfortable being around them. I'd also consider putting a muzzle on him in public for the time being while these issues are being sorted. If you let us know what area you are in someone might be able to recommend a 'real' trainer.

Also - can I reinforce the advice that you are definitely not in a good position to be considering getting another dog.

boodee

But Max was never like that before the training session. I'm taking a different approach to this whole thing.......

Cherry Blossom

boodee wrote: »

I just don't like the way Max stands across me, I know this is his protective instinct but my last GSD did this to and he eventually became so over protective no one could even look at me without him growling.

This is where he is instigating the argument, this is an aggressive stance it's a warning and a threat to the other dogs. Every single time he does this you need to correct him.

boodee wrote: »

My trouble with max only began after i signed up to a dog training course. The first night we just had a handlers talk. The second night you brought the dog. As I walked into the trainers yard HIS GSD, approached and growled/snarled at us. Max growled back and a tiny fight ensued, lasting about ten seconds but it felt like ten years. The trainer emerged and put his dog away. I was shaken and Max was distressed. The class was sh*te as we were both too shaken.

This incident has escalated his issues.

boodee wrote: »

He said you get one of two types of gsds, they are either very intelligent and easy to train, or stupid, just like the trainers can be.

The trainer who told you this is the stupid person.

It sounds like you have become very nervous of other dogs, Max knows this and sees you as being someone who needs to be protected as a result, to fix the issue you need Max to see you as the protector so he doesn't need to do this job. A lot of this is down to your confidence and body language and the dogs body language. A decent behaviourist or trainer would be able to help you learn how to interpret Max's and other dogs body language and what you are communicating to the dogs with your own body language and how to change this. It may not be such a big problem as you think.

Tarmina

First and foremost you need to get max neutered and then get advice or a session with a POSITIVE dog trainer. There is a list of approved positive dog trainers here:

I noticed in another thread that you were thinking of adding another dog to your group.....I would strongly advise against this until Max is neutered and you have attended a course of socialisation classes with him:

http://apdt.ie/index.php/find-a-trainer/

Wibbs

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

It sounds like you have become very nervous of other dogs, Max knows this and sees you as being someone who needs to be protected as a result, to fix the issue you need Max to see you as the protector so he doesn't need to do this job. A lot of this is down to your confidence and body language and the dogs body language. A decent behaviourist or trainer would be able to help you learn how to interpret Max's and other dogs body language and what you are communicating to the dogs with your own body language and how to change this. It may not be such a big problem as you think.

+1. Seems pretty clear cut alright. Pretty much every training/behaviour theory out there would agree with AJ. The "dominance theory*" types too. They'd see it more as Max doesn't see you as "alpha/leader of the pack". Same difference in the end. As AJ wrote you need to transmit to him that this ain't his job.

I remember seeing a programme with that Shaun Ellis wolf guy and he had another angle. Basically that the "alpha" is not the swaggering aggressive dog, it's actually the dog that holds back, that weighs up all the angles and only gets aggressive when absolutely necessary. That dogs like Max acting this way were actually the "enforcers" in the group. The "muscle" basically. Seems to make sense, but what would others think about this idea? Would it change the behavioural/training aspect if true?

PS boodee I'd be looking for my money back from that so called trainer. Long list of utter shíte coming from them.




*ever since Cesar Milan and that south park episode it's hard to hear the word dominance in anything but a mexican accent, or is that just me?

getz

as i have had a number of staffies over the years ,i came up with system that has always worked ,carry a stick/brollie by all means,dogs will be very reluctant to get to close to a person with a stick, always get between your dog and the other dog,this will show to both dogs that you are the pack leader ,stand still,now if that does not work ;;run like hell

boodee

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

This is where he is instigating the argument, this is an aggressive stance it's a warning and a threat to the other dogs. Every single time he does this you need to correct him.



This incident has escalated his issues.



The trainer who told you this is the stupid person.

It sounds like you have become very nervous of other dogs, Max knows this and sees you as being someone who needs to be protected as a result, to fix the issue you need Max to see you as the protector so he doesn't need to do this job. A lot of this is down to your confidence and body language and the dogs body language. A decent behaviourist or trainer would be able to help you learn how to interpret Max's and other dogs body language and what you are communicating to the dogs with your own body language and how to change this. It may not be such a big problem as you think.

The trainer meant there are stupid dogs and stupid HANDLERS...ie ME....I just didn't explin it properly.

I walked Max with 3 labs this morning and there was no bother.:)

Now that I know about him standing across me is actually him instigating I will be more vigilent of it, thank you for that tip.

I know it's down to confidence on my part, it's just been shook a bit, but i'm working on it.

No need to fret, there'll be no additions to the pack anytime soon, because I thought about it and got the opinions here which are a resounding NOOOOO.

AOM85

I have a similar problem with my female lakeland terrier, she keeps picking fights with other dogs while i have her on the lead.
She's a rescue dog and gets on great with my sisters and my mom's dog but lately she just freezes when she sees another dog coming, she stops walking crouches down and doesn't move until they're close and then goes for them. Two seconds later she's happy out, wagging her tail and sniffing away. It seems like random choices of which dogs to pick on too:(
I cant find any more dogs to socialise her with, with the dogs she knows she's fine. Do i have to go to a trainer? I don't want to but if i have to who's good? Oh and cheap

Cherry Blossom

The thing about trainers is that after a few weeks your dog will know all the dogs in the class too. During the summer months there are usually lots of charity dog shows and agriculture fairs that have a dog show element, these are open to everyone and all dogs are on leads so are a good way to socialise dogs that are at least reasonably comfortable around other dogs but have room for improvement.