Dash cam saves your ass (no Roundabout stuff please :)

coolisin

Wow rightly so the guy on the motorbike is correct to be going nuts. The person driving the car's head didn't even move.
Idiot, lucky they didn't meet would've being a nasty accident!

franksm

Yes, oblivious idiot will probably arrive in work later and tell everyone how motorbikers are "bad drivers".

Do they do train-horns for motorbikes yet ? :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icnRMW6P9nc

RainyDay

Helmetcam footage of death of speeding motorbiker in UK - released by police and family as a lesson to drivers to slow down (but no mention of motorcyclists slowing down)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq2xStb0R-c

http://www.norfolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2014/september/hardhittingvideolaunched.aspx

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

Mick55

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

What a powerful piece. Wow. just Wow!

Its a hard watch alright. You really get that pit of you stomach feeling when he hits the car. Miss my bike lots but don't miss that feeling when someone pulls out in front of you, like the M50 vid above.

coolisin

It is a powerful video.
He is going at some serious pace, not an excuse, but the message is kind of skewed as the driver (car) is stupid not actually going fast.
I think the message of look before you turn would be better.

h3000

coolisin wrote: »

It is a powerful video.
He is going at some serious pace, not an excuse, but the message is kind of skewed as the driver (car) is stupid not actually going fast.
I think the message of look before you turn would be better.

I think there is a lot of messages in the video to be honest. Both parties should have been more responsible. At 150kph ish he did not have a hope of stopping if anything went wrong. The amount of times drivers cross the path of others with only half a glance is far too common too.

Powerful video, would really make you think.

Voodoomelon

The moment before he hits, you just feel sick to your core. I remember the feeling from a few incidents as a cyclist years ago, that feeling of no control, your fate is set. Horrible.

dashcamdanny

That vid is shocking..

Feeling a bit uneasy after it.

mb1725

97 mph. :eek:

punisher5112

All types of road users should be taught how to read the road and look for oncoming cyclists and motorbikes.

R.I.P to David and fair play to the family for letting the footage out and this is ideal footage to be shown on tv also these things should be in the news and front pages of newspapers.

Other road users need to be aware of what is going on around them.

People will say he was going way too fast but seriously that car driver never even looked as he had a good bike lights on and reflective clothing I am sick of seeing vehicles pulling out on bikers as it has happened many times to myself also just been very lucky to never been hit like that.

Stay safe out there and hope drivers are taught how to look.

RandomAccess

Sure he didn't even have both hands on the handlebars so even if he saw it with time to spare he wouldn't have been able to brake or swerve. Having a dumb-ass in the oncoming car doesn't help things either.

Nino Brown

The car driver may have looked and saw a car approaching, and decided they had plenty of time and got distracted by something else, there was only 5 seconds between the bike passing the car and the impact. The car driver obviously should have double checked before moving off, but the vast majority of the blame here lies with the guy on the motorcycle IMO. Doing the best part of a ton, with only one hand on the bar, whilst overtaking at a junction is really asking for trouble.

Chippy01

Nino Brown wrote: »

The car driver may have looked and saw a car approaching, and decided they had plenty of time and got distracted by something else, there was only 5 seconds between the bike passing the car and the impact. The car driver obviously should have double checked before moving off, but the vast majority of the blame here lies with the guy on the motorcycle IMO. Doing the best part of a ton, with only one hand on the bar, whilst overtaking at a junction is really asking for trouble.

Did you actually read the report? Here's a piece of it -
The driver of the Renault, who admitted not seeing David or the car travelling behind, was prosecuted in April. While David was travelling above the speed limit, a number of other drivers had seen both the motorbike and the other car.

Lack of observation on the driver's side, don't you think?

Nino Brown

Chippy01 wrote: »

Did you actually read the report? Here's a piece of it -
The driver of the Renault, who admitted not seeing David or the car travelling behind, was prosecuted in April. While David was travelling above the speed limit, a number of other drivers had seen both the motorbike and the other car.

Lack of observation on the driver's side, don't you think?

No I didn't read the report, just watched the video, absolutely a lack of observation on the drivers side, but absolute madness on the bikers side.

RustyNut

Nino Brown wrote: »

The car driver may have looked and saw a car approaching, and decided they had plenty of time and got distracted by something else, there was only 5 seconds between the bike passing the car and the impact. The car driver obviously should have double checked before moving off, but the vast majority of the blame here lies with the guy on the motorcycle IMO. Doing the best part of a ton, with only one hand on the bar, whilst overtaking at a junction is really asking for trouble.

No, that collision was caused by the car crossing the path of the biker when the biker had right of way.If the biker was obeying the speed limit and had both hands on the bars when the car crossed his path it would have most likely have ended up the same with the biker hitting the side of the car.

Cocoon

RandomAccess wrote: »

Sure he didn't even have both hands on the handlebars so even if he saw it with time to spare he wouldn't have been able to brake or swerve. Having a dumb-ass in the oncoming car doesn't help things either.

He took his hand of the handlebar to thank the driver for moving in out of the way to let him pass, this car observed him coming up from behind. How the driver cut across him with out seeing him I don't know but its every bikers worst nightmare.

punisher5112

There was a study done seen on tv can't think what channel where they put car drivers to the test of pulling out of side roads or across traffic where most never saw any bike.

ZENER

I had a friend die in his teens on a motorbike, 17 he was, when you're that age it's incomprehensible, you can't imagine what it was like, you don't blame anyone you just know your friend is gone. That video was a reminder, I knew my friends parents and siblings really well. We lived in the same estate, I went to school with his brother.

I'm paranoid about motorbikes, always give way and make it obvious that I'm doing so if I can so they know it's ok to pass without fear of me pulling right.. If I see a bike behind me who looks like he want to pass me I'll veer left so he can get by safely.

A really uncomfortable reminder of a very bad teenage memory. RIP.

Ken

gutteruu

Both car and biker were at fault and I think people are missing this was the point of the family releasing the footage. No point trying to pin blame on one or other.

I would love to own a bike, but I spend all day avoiding clowns who don't see my big white van with its lights on, nevermind a small bike.

Iwannahurl

http://www.derehamtimes.co.uk/news/inquest_hears_how_motorcyclist_david_holmes_was_travelling_at_97_miles_per_hour_down_the_a47_at_honingham_when_he_crashed_with_a_turning_car_1_3649858

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/a47_death_crash_driver_disqualified_1_3523497

ardle1

RainyDay wrote: »

Helmetcam footage of death of speeding motorbiker in UK - released by police and family as a lesson to drivers to slow down (but no mention of motorcyclists slowing down)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq2xStb0R-c

http://www.norfolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2014/september/hardhittingvideolaunched.aspx

Perfect example of how one minute(you can feel)your in total 100% control.... And the next sec that feeling can be taken from you in the most horrible unexpected fashion, it happens everyday on our roads, there really is no room for complacency!

glic71rods46t0

I would put most of the blame for the fatality on the biker. He was doing a completely stupid speed for the road he was on. Most normal road users encounter people pulling out in front of them regularly enough - it's to be expected and if travelling at a reasonable speed you can stop. This guy couldn't because he was doing a crazy speed

glic71rods46t0

Double post.

MarkR

From my trip into work this morning. If I had more space, I would have let him in, but it felt unsafe.

bear1

Very unsafe, but judging from the rear damage to the Caddy I wonder if it was more a case for bash cash?

MarkR

Yeah, one careful owner.

The amount of times I've day dreamed driving towards the tunnel with the intention of turning off for caherdavin is ridiculous. So much money spent on unnecessary tolls!

Mousewar

There's possibly nothing that annoys me more on the road than people who use the hard shoulder for no other reason than impatience. Hard Shoulders are there for a reason. They're a refuge for stricken vehicles. More importantly, they're a means of access for emergency vehicles when there's a serious crash and someone may need life-saving assistance.
However, in this video, as on numerous other occasions, they're a means for f**kheads to skip the rest of us and get to work earlier.

Apologies for the long vid - I'm not at my usual computer and can't edit the video, so here's the summary.

1:13 - The UPC van that starts everybody off (Note the massive sign specifically telling people that the hard shoulder is blocked due to an accident - in fact an emergency vehicle had used it only moments before to reach the accident. And a thick cloud of smoke (not visible in the video) in the air was surely evidence that a serious incident of some kind had taken place.)

After that, a load of cars move into the hard shoulder even though we're still some distance from the next exit.

2:50 - The inevitable consequence of this sh*tbag behaviour. Hard shoulder is blocked. No way through for emergency vehicles now.

3:25 - At this point I swore I wasn't letting any of those feckers back in and I blare the blue punto out of it (video on mute so inaudible). In retrospect, letting them in would have cleared the shoulder more quickly so that might have been the better choice.

4:05 - The accident scene. Car on fire apparently.

This is the M50 by the way - I see it a lot there whenever the traffic gets heavy. The absolute gall it takes to assume you're more important than other people, so important that you can use what is effectively an emergency access lane as your own private road, is staggering.

lovelyhurler

You were dead right.
If he wanted to get off at that exit he should have got into the correct lane in time.
The amount of times we've all seen that - people rushing up the overtaking lane only to whack an indicator on and cut across lanes just to make an exit - it's not like it just sprung up on ya; you generally get 2Km's notice....

bear1

Re the M50 video, the first thing that came to mind about half way through was "all that undertaking and in the end you still ended up at the back".
Not for all of them I assume but the white Focus for example. Pity there weren't more police around. They'd have made a killing.

MarkR

Mousewar wrote: »

There's possibly nothing that annoys me more on the road than people who use the hard shoulder for no other reason than impatience. Hard Shoulders are there for a reason. They're a refuge for stricken vehicles. More importantly, they're a means of access for emergency vehicles when there's a serious crash and someone may need life-saving assistance.
However, in this video, as on numerous other occasions, they're a means for f**kheads to skip the rest of us and get to work earlier.

Apologies for the long vid - I'm not at my usual computer and can't edit the video, so here's the summary.

1:13 - The UPC van that starts everybody off (Note the massive sign specifically telling people that the hard shoulder is blocked due to an accident - in fact an emergency vehicle had used it only moments before to reach the accident. And a thick cloud of smoke (not visible in the video) in the air was surely evidence that a serious incident of some kind had taken place.)

After that, a load of cars move into the hard shoulder even though we're still some distance from the next exit.

2:50 - The inevitable consequence of this sh*tbag behaviour. Hard shoulder is blocked. No way through for emergency vehicles now.

3:25 - At this point I swore I wasn't letting any of those feckers back in and I blare the blue punto out of it (video on mute so inaudible). In retrospect, letting them in would have cleared the shoulder more quickly so that might have been the better choice.

4:05 - The accident scene. Car on fire apparently.

This is the M50 by the way - I see it a lot there whenever the traffic gets heavy. The absolute gall it takes to assume you're more important than other people, so important that you can use what is effectively an emergency access lane as your own private road, is staggering.

That's funny. Earlier today a UPC van passed me, had one of those "how's my driving?" stickers on it. They are committing an offence. I'd send it off to traffic watch.

bugsntinas

MarkR wrote: »

From my trip into work this morning. If I had more space, I would have let him in, but it felt unsafe.

i'd put money on the van was trying to cut acroos to the exit.fair play to you.

bladespin

rw7h9gbvx5tozy wrote: »

I would put most of the blame for the fatality on the biker. He was doing a completely stupid speed for the road he was on. Most normal road users encounter people pulling out in front of them regularly enough - it's to be expected and if travelling at a reasonable speed you can stop. This guy couldn't because he was doing a crazy speed

Missing the point of it completely, blame one or the other or both, the whole idea is to show the consequences of our actions.
I doubt I'd sleep very well having killed someone by not looking even if they were at fault.

On the aside,it's not that hard to see a bike with it's lights on on the road even at speed, even recently two garda motorcyclists were taken out with full lights on, it only takes a split second to look properly (not just glance) and if there's any doubt it won't kill them to wait.

bugsntinas

it's amazing how people don't see things on the road.i remember many years ago in the uk my sister and bf were traveling on a white double decker on an a road,speed limit was 60.i remember from the papers that the bus driver saw a jag stop in the opposite direction to turn right acroos the buses path but apparentl for some reason the driver left it to the last minute to turn needless to say the bus demolished the jag in fact they found a shock absorber stuck in a telegraph pole.i feel for the driver that hit the bike as they have to live with that for the rest of their life but please use your eyes!!

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

wotzgoingon

RainyDay wrote: »

Helmetcam footage of death of speeding motorbiker in UK - released by police and family as a lesson to drivers to slow down (but no mention of motorcyclists slowing down)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq2xStb0R-c

http://www.norfolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2014/september/hardhittingvideolaunched.aspx

Jesus that's terrible. Who is at fault there?

bear1

Both.

CramCycle

bugsntinas wrote: »

it's amazing how people don't see things on the road.

There has to be something funny going on though, mentally, I see it regularly enough where you are approaching a junction, and there is car waiting to pull out. They don't pull out before you arrive, despite plenty of time/space, so you presume that they were just being overly cautious, and then, very last second they pull out, often jumping the clutch and you have to hit the brakes with at best a foot to spare.

gutteruu

lovelyhurler wrote: »

You were dead right.
If he wanted to get off at that exit he should have got into the correct lane in time.
The amount of times we've all seen that - people rushing up the overtaking lane only to whack an indicator on and cut across lanes just to make an exit - it's not like it just sprung up on ya; you generally get 2Km's notice....

That exit only has 400 metres notice from sign to exit and the mondeo blocking him took 300 of them to pull in. Could have been cars behind the poster so van had no choice. Not standing up for him, but I would have let him in. If for no other reason than your in his blind spot.

Kenny Logins

wotzgoingon wrote: »

Jesus that's terrible. Who is at fault there?

Driver pleaded guilty to causing death by careless driving.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

http://www.derehamtimes.co.uk/news/inquest_hears_how_motorcyclist_david_holmes_was_travelling_at_97_miles_per_hour_down_the_a47_at_honingham_when_he_crashed_with_a_turning_car_1_3649858

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/a47_death_crash_driver_disqualified_1_3523497

Alkers

OSI wrote: »

The final consequence was the bikers fault. Would have been survivable at a lower speed. The actual accident is the drivers fault.

It wouldn't have been too survivable had the biker been doing the limit (60mph). Crash helmets are designed for much lower speeds and not for dead-on impacts with objects at right angles to the rider.

Thoie

gutteruu wrote: »

That exit only has 400 metres notice from sign to exit and the mondeo blocking him took 300 of them to pull in. Could have been cars behind the poster so van had no choice. Not standing up for him, but I would have let him in. If for no other reason than your in his blind spot.

There are few places in Ireland where missing your exit is a disaster. I've missed exits in the past (overtaking a lorry, lorry blocking signs, see the exit too late) - I just keep going to the next exit and turn back rather than fling myself across in front of someone. There are one or two odd places in the country where you can exit a motorway and not rejoin it in the other direction, but mostly you can.

Other people seem to have this idea that even if they're in the 3rd lane, it's perfectly OK to (maybe) flick on the indicator and away you go. Sure, if you miss the Red Cow exit, you may get held up in traffic a bit as you go up to the Lucan exit to turn around, but unless you're giving birth, suck it up.

dashcamdanny

OSI wrote: »

The final consequence was the bikers fault. Would have been survivable at a lower speed. The actual accident is the drivers fault.

Even if the biker was doing the limit, he would probably still be dead in fairness.

That accident is 100% the drivers fault. Plain to see. In fact I cant work out how peeps here a laying blame on the rider at all.

The extra speed simply sealed his fate.

Alkers

OSI wrote: »

No, but he would have been further from the car when he spotted it and had more time to brake and slow down. It wasn't his fault that the crash occurred, but he did his survivability odds no favours.

By that logic, if he had been going even faster he would have been past the car prior to the car pulling out.

hullaballoo

That's literally the most horrendous video I've ever watched. The sort of half-strangled gasped "ahhh" just as the car pulls in front of him will stay with me.

Spook_ie

Simona1986 wrote: »

It wouldn't have been too survivable had the biker been doing the limit (60mph). Crash helmets are designed for much lower speeds and not for dead-on impacts with objects at right angles to the rider.

Simona1986 wrote: »

By that logic, if he had been going even faster he would have been past the car prior to the car pulling out.

Going even faster would just have meant that the accident would likely have happened elsewhere.

Speaking at yesterday’s inquest, PC Graham Brooks said both motorists would have been in each other’s available view for seven seconds before impact.

PC Brooks said: “The average speed of the motorcycle was almost 97 miles an hour, well above the 60 mile per hour limit.”

He said the footage showed Mr Holmes had made no obvious acknowledgement of his speed and showed a disregard for his own safety.

He said: “If the Yamaha had been driving at 60 miles per hour the collision could have been avoided.”

However, given the traffic officers report that they should have been visible for 7 seconds to each other that meant a visible distance of 303.5 meters ( 97mph = 43.36 m/s x 7 = 303.5 meters ) at a speed of 60 mph or 26.8 m/s that 303.5 meters would have taken 4.3 seconds longer to cover, that's 4.3 seconds to take evasive action , react or whatever

RustyNut

Spook_ie wrote: »

Going even faster would just have meant that the accident would likely have happened elsewhere.



However, given the traffic officers report that they should have been visible for 7 seconds to each other that meant a visible distance of 303.5 meters ( 97mph = 43.36 m/s x 7 = 303.5 meters ) at a speed of 60 mph or 26.8 m/s that 303.5 meters would have taken 4.3 seconds longer to cover, that's 4.3 seconds to take evasive action , react or whatever

The facts are that the car driver just didnt look and so didnt see the biker. If it was a young lad on a moped buzzing up the same road at 40 mph and the car driver behaved the same then it would have been the young lad that went into the car. The speed of the biker made the outcome worse but it was 100% the car drivers actions that caused the colision as he admitted himself.

punisher5112

I was in a crash today in the car and I really should fit up my camera.

Woman pulled out looking through my car and behind and exactly the same thing did not see me even with dipped lights on.

I ended up in her drivers door and she didn't know what happened.

I am a magnet for these crashes.

Iwannahurl

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Even if the biker was doing the limit, he would probably still be dead in fairness.

That accident is 100% the drivers fault. Plain to see. In fact I cant work out how peeps here a laying blame on the rider at all.

The extra speed simply sealed his fate.

That makes little sense to me, in logic or law.

In an attempt to learn something (other than the blindingly obvious) from this tragic and shocking incident, I've been having a look at the location on Google Maps.

The crash occurred here.

According to the police the motorcyclist was travelling at an "average" of 97 mph (156 km/h) just before the collision.

He was therefore travelling at 43.33 metres per second. The police also claimed that the motorcyclist and driver "would have been in each other’s available view for seven seconds before impact". Apparently this was verified by other motorists behind the crash driver who said they could see the motorcyclist approaching, evidence which seems to have been particularly damning in court.

Seven seconds at 43.33 m/sec equates to a distance of 303 metres, which looks like this on Google Maps.

This location is approximately 300 metres from the point of impact. This is what the view looks like from the crash site.

Now, StreetView is far from clear (at least on my PC) but it looks to me as if there is an incline in that road.

Is there really a clear view for 300 metres? Is it certain that a driver in that spot would see a motorcyclist approaching at 156 km/h from 300 metres away? Have these assumptions been tested with scientific rigour? Could it possibly be the case that motorists behind the crash driver had a better view because the point of collision is in a dip? Is there any room for reasonable doubt regarding the guilt of the driver (bearing in mind of course that he pleaded guilty)?