Electric Dog Fence

runawaybishop

Zapperzy wrote: »

Anyone who has said they've tested these collars have you tested it on your arm/hand or around your neck, also have you set it off yourself or gotten a friend set it off randomly so you can't anticipate the shock and tense up?

From memory I remember seeing a dog run for €309 in a local petshop at the weekend, I'm sure they could be gotten much cheaper using the builder's fences. The petsafe fences are ~€200.

A dogs neck is not comparable to a humans. The petsafe systems are far cheaper to buy new from the US via ebay - about 80 euro, if even that.

Gareth2011

Zapperzy wrote: »

Anyone who has said they've tested these collars have you tested it on your arm/hand or around your neck, also have you set it off yourself or gotten a friend set it off randomly so you can't anticipate the shock and tense up?

From memory I remember seeing a dog run for €309 in a local petshop at the weekend, I'm sure they could be gotten much cheaper using the builder's fences. The petsafe fences are ~€200.

I had one of the receiver in my hand before was putting it back on the dog but it didn't warn me I was so close to the wire and it shocked my hand. Not over sore but enough for a dog to feel on its neck id say cause the probes are meant to touch the skin. They are not really pet-friendly at all if the dog doesn't get it regardless of training.

Discodog

ISDW wrote: »

Discodog, have you got a husband tucked away somewhere that you've never told anyone about? Civil ceremony abroad was it?;)

I am still saving myself for you

Discodog

runawaybishop wrote: »

Chicken wire isn't suitable fencing for many breeds i'm afraid, it would only suit a very small dog. You really need to be looking at chainlink which involves concreting in posts to support the weight. Its pretty expensive and time consuming to do.

At the price you quoted for the chicken wire (which seem very high, i would expect about 5 total per meter) it would cost me about 5 thousand euro. The fence would also not be stock proof so i would need additional wire and work (about 100 euro more though, so relatively not a lot more).

edit: chainlink is 75 euro for 25 meters - so 1k would be enough to fence my garden, not including stakes, concrete, additional wire and labour.

Not true. Chicken wire is fine provided that it is supported by the posts & rails. You can always run a strainer wire through the centre to give it extra support. I have built a lot of cages & runs in my time. You would only need chainlink for a breed heavy or strong enough to bust the wire. But chainlink will last much longer & a driven half round post will easily support chainlink - it doesn't need concreting.

Here's a thought. Say you spent the €1000. Given the typical life of a dog it works out at about €1 per week to keep you dog safe & secure.

runawaybishop wrote: »

A dogs neck is not comparable to a humans.

Where the link ? How do you think it differs ?

runawaybishop

Discodog wrote: »

Not true. Chicken wire is fine provided that it is supported by the posts & rails. You can always run a strainer wire through the centre to give it extra support. I have built a lot of cages & runs in my time. You would only need chainlink for a breed heavy or strong enough to bust the wire. But chainlink will last much longer & a driven half round post will easily support chainlink - it doesn't need concreting.

Here's a thought. Say you spent the €1000. Given the typical life of a dog it works out at about €1 per week to keep you dog safe & secure.

Chicken wire is not suitable for larger breeds. They will go straight through it.

5 foot chainlink will usually require concrete to stop it pulling the stakes over - you can obviously use rubble at the base of the stakes but concrete is the correct way to do the job.

I don't like throwing money away.

edit: i did not see your question about how humans and dogs necks differ. Since I made the statement it is of course up to me to back it up.

Here is a picture of a human neck - http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/824/PreviewComp/SuperStock_824R-5082.jpg
Here is a dogs neck - http://www.caminodesantiago.me/wp-content/uploads/dog.jpg

Can you see how they are not comparable?

Whispered

runawaybishop wrote: »

Chicken wire is not suitable for larger breeds. They will go straight through it.

Imagine the shock you'd have to give to a dog big enough and determined enough to go through chicken wire.

I don't know how big you're talking but I know of rotties, boxers and pointers who are kept well secured by chicken wire.

I also know of at least 3 boxers who were picked up wandering with an e-collar on their neck.

Oh and a golden retriever whose neck had a big open sore due to the collar. I met the dog in the neighbours garden, outside it's boundary.

Of course these are just personal experiences and I have no documentation to back them up, much like your statements on this thread.

Julie London

OP the best thing to do is make a dog run. You can buy fencing and fence in a large enough are for the dog on your land complete with kennel etc. The electric collars do not work and they are cruel.

runawaybishop

Whispered wrote: »

Imagine the shock you'd have to give to a dog big enough and determined enough to go through chicken wire.

I don't know how big you're talking but I know of rotties, boxers and pointers who are kept well secured by chicken wire.

I also know of at least 3 boxers who were picked up wandering with an e-collar on their neck.

Oh and a golden retriever whose neck had a big open sore due to the collar. I met the dog in the neighbours garden, outside it's boundary.

Of course these are just personal experiences and I have no documentation to back them up, much like your statements on this thread.

Chicken wire is occasionally used to build spacious yet inexpensive cages for small animals (or to protect plants and property from animals) though the thinness and zinc content of galvanized wire may be inappropriate for animals prone to gnawing and will not keep out predators. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_wire.

The wire is too weak and can be damaged simply by the dog leaning on it. While it may suit a smaller dog a chainlink fence is far superior.

It is always annoying when you hear of badly trained animals. I know of animals without collars that are constantly causing a nuisance. What is your point?

Julie London wrote: »

OP the best thing to do is make a dog run. You can buy fencing and fence in a large enough are for the dog on your land complete with kennel etc. The electric collars do not work and they are cruel.

Having the full run of the garden is crueller than being in a smaller run. Please elaborate. A correctly trained dog will not approach the boundary and so will not get a shock. Furthermore dogs discipline pack members with physical methods such as nips and bites. Is this now cruel?

Julie London

runawaybishop wrote: »

Chicken wire is occasionally used to build spacious yet inexpensive cages for small animals (or to protect plants and property from animals) though the thinness and zinc content of galvanized wire may be inappropriate for animals prone to gnawing and will not keep out predators. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_wire.

The wire is too weak and can be damaged simply by the dog leaning on it. While it may suit a smaller dog a chainlink fence is far superior.

It is always annoying when you hear of badly trained animals. I know of animals without collars that are constantly causing a nuisance. What is your point?



Having the full run of the garden is crueller than being in a smaller run. Please elaborate. A correctly trained dog will not approach the boundary and so will not get a shock. Furthermore dogs discipline pack members with physical methods such as nips and bites. Is this now cruel?

I said fencing large enough. ie a large run. If the dog is left in there all day of course its cruel. Im assuming the OP will only use a run when he is not at home. Large dog runs are not cruel. Putting an electric shock collar on a puppy is horrendously cruel.

runawaybishop

Julie London wrote: »

I said fencing large enough. ie a large run. If the dog is left in there all day of course its cruel. Im assuming the OP will only use a run when he is not at home. Large dog runs are not cruel. Putting an electric shock collar on a puppy is horrendously cruel.

We are not suggesting that he puts such a collar on a puppy.

Discodog

runawaybishop wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_wire.

Surely you can better that Wikipedia. I have built cages & runs for dogs, birds including birds of prey, foxes, badgers, cheetahs - I have done voluntary work with a wild life rescue & a zoo.

runawaybishop wrote: »

I don't like throwing money away.

You're Mr Stingybishop if you begrudge spending €1 a week to keep you dog safe

runawaybishop wrote: »

Can you see how they are not comparable?

Er No because the photos do not describe the thickness of the skin, the anatomy of the relevant nerves etc.

But if a shock collar doesn't hurt it won't work.

Whispered

runawaybishop wrote: »

It is always annoying when you hear of badly trained animals. I know of animals without collars that are constantly causing a nuisance. What is your point?
......

A correctly trained dog will not approach the boundary and so will not get a shock. Furthermore dogs discipline pack members with physical methods such as nips and bites. Is this now cruel?

But how many animals who are securely fenced in do you hear of making a nuisance of themselves? The choices are not E-Collar or Roam they are E-Collar, secure fencing, or roaming. I'm sure you agree that a securely fenced area is vastly superior in terms of safety than an E-Collar is.

There is not a trainer in the world who will tell you that training works 100% of the time. All it takes if for your "correct" training to fail once. Just once does your dog have to be stimulated enough to make a break for it. And you could end up with a lost dog or worse.

runawaybishop

Discodog wrote: »

Surely you can better that Wikipedia. I have built cages & runs for dogs, birds including birds of prey, foxes, badgers, cheetahs - I have done voluntary work with a wild life rescue & a zoo.



You're Mr Stingybishop if you begrudge spending €1 a week to keep you dog safe



Er No because the photos do not describe the thickness of the skin, the anatomy of the relevant nerves etc.

But if a shock collar doesn't hurt it won't work.

You made a run out of chicken wire for a cheetah?

Wikipedia was the first result that came up. I struggle to believe that you honestly think that chickenwire is more suitable than chainlink for a dogs enclosure.

One euro a week does seem cheap - but everything adds up. Forgive me if i struggle to justify spending 1 thousand euro on a fence when the country is in a shambles.

Dog necks have thicker skin and are protected by a lair of hair.

Collars, when dogs are trained right, merely break the dogs attention.

Whispered wrote: »

But how many animals who are securely fenced in do you hear of making a nuisance of themselves? The choices are not E-Collar or Roam they are E-Collar, secure fencing, or roaming. I'm sure you agree that a securely fenced area is vastly superior in terms of safety than an E-Collar is.

There is not a trainer in the world who will tell you that training works 100% of the time. All it takes if for your "correct" training to fail once. Just once does your dog have to be stimulated enough to make a break for it. And you could end up with a lost dog or worse.

There is not a trainer in the world who will tell you that training works 100% of the time. All it takes if for your "correct" training to fail once. Just once does your dog have to be stimulated enough to make a break for it. And you could end up with a lost dog or worse.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100% that a securely fenced area is vastly superior in terms of safety than an E-Collar is.

cyborg

My lab can get through plastic coated chainlink so chicken wire would be next to useless to contain a dog.
Weldmesh is the best but is very expensive.
I'm just wondering would a proper electric fence with say 3 or 4 strands of wire be effective? it would work out comparatively inexpensive for a large site.

Discodog

runawaybishop wrote: »

You made a run out of chicken wire for a cheetah?

Wikipedia was the first result that came up. I struggle to believe that you honestly think that chickenwire is more suitable than chainlink for a dogs enclosure.

One euro a week does seem cheap - but everything adds up. Forgive me if i struggle to justify spending 1 thousand euro on a fence when the country is in a shambles.

Dog necks have thicker skin and are protected by a lair of hair.

Collars, when dogs are trained right, merely break the dogs attention.

I do not say that chicken wire is better than chainlink. I do say that it is an adequate option for most dog owners & no the Cheetah's have chain link.

The hair on a dog's neck is irrelevant because it is non conductive so the prongs on the collar have to make good contact with the skin. This means that there is a fine line between them making enough contact to shock but not too much so that they embed in the neck.

By breaking attention I assume that you are referring to the "warning" buzz that the collar is supposed to give prior to a shock. Give the typical running speed of a dog it can pass through the "warning zone" almost instantly. At the end of the day these collars can only work by inflicting pain.

Many years ago I was approached by the US company that invented these to possibly represent them. There was a already a lot of opposition from the RSPCA & the Reps were being told to use phrases like "Static" & "Correction" & under no circumstances to use the word "Shock".

ISDW

runawaybishop wrote: »

Dog necks have thicker skin and are protected by a lair of hair.

No, they don't. A dog's skin is 3-5 cells thick, compared to a humans which is 10-15 cells thick. Which is why when dogs are being groomed, the comb/rake or whatever implement is being used shouldn't touch the dog's skin, because it hurts them.

Discodog

ISDW wrote: »

No, they don't. A dog's skin is 3-5 cells thick, compared to a humans which is 10-15 cells thick. Which is why when dogs are being groomed, the comb/rake or whatever implement is being used shouldn't touch the dog's skin, because it hurts them.

History seems to show that Bishops have thick skins

Why aren't you out Mushing in the mud - wonders if you could mush in shallow water with water skis ?

Dog skin can be notoriously sensitive - they can even get sunburnt.

ISDW

Discodog wrote: »

History seems to show that Bishops have thick skins

Why aren't you out Mushing in the mud - wonders if you could mush in shallow water with water skis ?

Dog skin can be notoriously sensitive - they can even get sunburnt.

Did you not see the photos of the Trek over Christmas? When my dogs decided to take me swimming?

I've been trying to sort out a dog in trouble all day, the dogs have only been out for a run in the fully fenced to husky height 1 acre field today, they will go out for a mush tomorrow:D

Zapperzy

Gareth2011 wrote: »

I had one of the receiver in my hand before was putting it back on the dog but it didn't warn me I was so close to the wire and it shocked my hand. Not over sore but enough for a dog to feel on its neck id say cause the probes are meant to touch the skin. They are not really pet-friendly at all if the dog doesn't get it regardless of training.

I certainly wasn't suggesting they are pet friendly, reading back on my post it comes across a bit like I'm supporting these collars which I'm not. Reason I ask about where people are testing them and if they are setting them off themselves is I remember about 2 years ago I picked up one of those joke shock pens and pressed the button on it without realising what it was, the shock when I wasn't anticipating it was horrible, dropped the pen immediately and had tingles in my hand for a few minutes. Pressed the button later on and when I anticipated the shock it was much easier to take and seemed much less severe.
And that was my thumb being shocked. I can imagine if someone had come up behind me and jabbed it in my neck off guard it would not have been a nice feeling.

I admit I haven't felt the shock from a shock collar as I don't know anyone with one but if they are anything like that pen I can imagine it's not a nice feeling to a dog that cannot comprehend where the shock is coming from the same way I could.

runawaybishop

ISDW wrote: »

No, they don't. A dog's skin is 3-5 cells thick, compared to a humans which is 10-15 cells thick. Which is why when dogs are being groomed, the comb/rake or whatever implement is being used shouldn't touch the dog's skin, because it hurts them.

Many, if not all, dogs have a protective layer of thicker and/or looser skin around their throats.

edit: maybe tougher is a better word.

Discodog wrote: »

Give the typical running speed of a dog it can pass through the "warning zone" almost instantly.

System can detect the speed at which the dog is approaching the boundary and adjust range and intensity accordingly.

Discodog

ISDW wrote: »

Did you not see the photos of the Trek over Christmas? When my dogs decided to take me swimming?

PM me the link & any ones of you covered in mud - there isn't a "pervy" smilie

Discodog

runawaybishop wrote: »

System can detect the speed at which the dog is approaching the boundary and adjust range and intensity accordingly.

Don't believe it.

ISDW

runawaybishop wrote: »

Many, if not all, dogs have a protective layer of thicker and/or looser skin around their throats.

edit: maybe tougher is a better word.


System can detect the speed at which the dog is approaching the boundary and adjust range and intensity accordingly.

The collar goes around their neck, so while there will be prongs on their throat, it also delivers the shock to the side and back of their neck. In your previous post, it was neck that you said - not throat.

DD - look in the thread Independent Dogs. I will of course send you photos of me covered in mud, I have loads:P

Discodog

Zapperzy wrote: »

I admit I haven't felt the shock from a shock collar as I don't know anyone with one

Interesting point bearing in mind your occupation. When I was approached by the fence manufacturer they wrongly seemed to think that every Vet would stock their products.

runawaybishop

Discodog wrote: »

Don't believe it.

"issues a higher level of intensity the faster your pet moves when near in ground wire fence."

ISDW wrote: »

The collar goes around their neck, so while there will be prongs on their throat, it also delivers the shock to the side and back of their neck. In your previous post, it was neck that you said - not throat.

It doesn't deliver it around the side or back at all - only where the prongs contact the skin.


Seriously, have you guys done any research whatsoever?

Zapperzy

Discodog wrote: »

Interesting point bearing in mind your occupation. When I was approached by the fence manufacturer they wrongly seemed to think that every Vet would stock their products.

A student vet nurse, apart from my placements 12 weeks a year I don't work in a practice, I meant I have no friends or family that uses a shock collar. My occupation at the moment is a shop assistant.

ISDW

runawaybishop wrote: »

"issues a higher level of intensity the faster your pet moves when near in ground wire fence."



It doesn't deliver it around the side or back at all - only where the prongs contact the skin.


Seriously, have you guys done any research whatsoever?

So then why do you keep saying neck?

runawaybishop

ISDW wrote: »

So then why do you keep saying neck?

Does it make any difference if I said neck or throat?

Discodog

runawaybishop wrote: »

"issues a higher level of intensity the faster your pet moves when near in ground wire fence."

That would infer that the receiver also has a transmit function. But then again they also claim that the wireless system is ideal to take on holiday whilst ignoring their other claim that it takes a minimum of 15 days to train the dog - must have long holidays !

runawaybishop

Discodog wrote: »

That would infer that the receiver also has a transmit function. But then again they also claim that the wireless system is ideal to take on holiday whilst ignoring their other claim that it takes a minimum of 15 days to train the dog - must have long holidays !

There is a world of difference between saying "great for holidays!" and stating that a device can perform a function that is not possible.