Electric Dog Fence

Discodog

Zapperzy wrote: »

A student vet nurse, apart from my placements 12 weeks a year I don't work in a practice, I meant I have no friends or family that uses a shock collar. My occupation at the moment is a shop assistant.

12 weeks a year is lot more than any of us spend in a Vets

Btw if you ever get an offer of a placement in Barna take it as they are really nice .

gammon_steak

Why does the collar have to be rammed tight to the dogs neck? Can't it be left loose? I leave mine fairly loose so he wouldn't feel it too much. It's the warning beeps which do the job. The dog is not going to continue to run through the beeps the same as it wouldn't continue to try and run through a wall if trained properly. The whole point of these systems is that it's an invisible boundary. Granted some dogs don't take to it so if that's the case then don't use one. But for lots of people they do work.

I think it's fair to say that everyone would prefer to have the dogs fenced in properly if they could but with finanical issues, rented accomodation, leases, landlords etc etc it's not always the best option. I actually have fencing but I use the collar in case that some day he might get out and get near a very dangerous road. It's extra peace of mind for when I'm not there. My dog knows where the boundary is and won't cross it so when I'm bringing him for a walk I have to bring him out a certain way! Hopefully when I own my own house I will definitely have proper fencing though.

People are getting heated about this but anyone who uses collars does so because they love their dogs and want to protect them. For some reason it's being portrayed as attempted cruelty which it is not.

Discodog

runawaybishop wrote: »

There is a world of difference between saying "great for holidays!" and stating that a device can perform a function that is not possible.

There isn't if it clearly can't be used for holidays.

Do you have a link for the detailed specification of the receiver ?

Discodog

gammon_steak wrote: »

Why does the collar have to be rammed tight to the dogs neck? Can't it be left loose? I leave mine fairly loose so he wouldn't feel it too much.

He will either feel it or not & that depends if the prongs are touching the skin. The warning is only a deterrent.

gammon_steak wrote: »

It's extra peace of mind for when I'm not there.

People are getting heated about this but anyone who uses collars does so because they love their dogs and want to protect them. For some reason it's being portrayed as attempted cruelty which it is not.

Personally I would never go out & leave my dogs in a garden, let alone one reliant on a shock collar. I am out most days & my dogs are safe & snug in the house. I can relax because I know that they are secure.

It isn't just some posters here that regard these systems as cruel. We are not talking about a zealous minority. Most organisations involved in animal welfare consider them to be cruel which is why the Welsh ban may spread. There has to be some concern when so many groups & individuals agree especially when there appears to be no organisation of note speaking out in defence of shock collars.

Solair

runawaybishop wrote: »

Oh please.


The OP asked for advice on these systems. He/she didn't ask for guesswork and blatant lies. Its fine if you dislike these systems, just don't make ridiculous statements like "The name says it all "shock" collar." <-- they aren't called shock collars

A measured and thought out post will garner more positive responses.

Oh please don't accuse other posters of lying without any basis for it! Do you promote these devices for a living or something?

I am reporting what happened with our friend's collie. She went nuts when she was shocked and became extremely freaked out and vicious and went around attacking everything and anyone and growling insanely.

The facts may not suit your argument, but animals (including people) don't always react very well or very predictably to electric shocks!

Hellrazer

. He/she didn't ask for guesswork and blatant lies.

Look the rules are "Attack the post and not the poster"--accusing someone of blatant lies goes against this.Consider this a warning--any more and you`ll have a holiday from the forum.

TooManyDogs wrote: »

So basically you're going to insinuate people are liars without having the guts to say it to their face? Nice

I asked you HOW is it hyperbole, not WHAT is hyperbole. Simple question I would have thought but I guess you don't have the guts to call me a liar to my face.

Likewise--Report the post in future instead of responding or you can have a small break aswell.

Oh please don't accuse other posters of lying without any basis for it

Same goes for yourself.Please dont respond--let the mods deal with it.

Now enough of this.Either keep this on topic or I`ll close the thread.

runawaybishop

Hellrazer wrote: »

Look the rules are "Attack the post and not the poster"--accusing someone of blatant lies goes against this.Consider this a warning--any more and you`ll have a holiday from the forum.

No problem.

Solair wrote: »

Do you promote these devices for a living or something?

No, I do not promote pet collars for a living

Solair wrote: »

I am reporting what happened with our friend's collie. She went nuts when she was shocked and became extremely freaked out and vicious and went around attacking everything and anyone and growling insanely.

The facts may not suit your argument, but animals (including people) don't always react very well or very predictably to electric shocks!

The collar is a tool. As with any tool if it is abused or used incorrectly it can cause issues. The problem with that collie stems from misuse by its owners.

If you are going to state your arguments as fact then please provide evidence. I would be interested in seeing studies on this.

Discodog wrote: »

Do you have a link for the detailed specification of the receiver ?

There are tons of different systems, and i am not sure on the rules on posting links (since most of them are on sites that sell the products).

Here is the text I see used most commonly after 2 minutes of googling

Speed Detect Anti - Run through - The faster your dog is moving, the quicker the higher level of intensity is issued.
Automatic pulse level increase(Anti Linger/Anti Run-through)
Your system detects the dogs speed and position, so if he runs at the fence the system is activated immediately and its inten sity increases as he progresses towards the wire

And just to confirm what i said earlier, if the dog gets trapped near the fence, the collars shut down

Collar Fail-Safe: If your pet gets trapped in the correction zone, the Collar will shut down after 20 seconds to prevent over correction

I'd also like to point out that many systems will shut down if the animal escapes though the fence, so there should be no issues with dogs being "trapped" outside the boundary.

A survey of veterinarians and veterinarian technicians attending the 2003 North American Veterinary Conference found a generally positive attitude about the use of electronic training devices, with 80 percent of professionals stating that they would recommend them in many cases.

Randall Lockwood PhD, Senior Vice President, Anti-cruelty Initiatives and Legislative Services, The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA) was quoted in a 2007 White Paper titled "The Facts About Modern Electronic Training Devices," produced by Radio Systems, a manufacturer of shock collars, "We recognize that older products were often unreliable and difficult to use humanely. But we feel that new technology employed by responsible manufacturers has led to products that can be and are being used safely and effectively to preserve the safety and well-being of many dogs and strengthen the bond with their human companions.

I fully accept that there are opposing studies of course. However, I have done my research carefully and I am happy using these systems.

Discodog

There are two obvious points with those links. The first is from 2003 & dog training methods have moved on a lot since then. The second was in a report produced by a manufacturer so hardly unbiased.

There is also a big difference between a shock collar as part of a fence where the dog triggers the shock & a radio controlled shock collar being used by an expert. I have seen radio collars used to train dogs, for example, not to chase livestock & I do think that they can be justified in exceptional cases.
I think that we should have a total ban except for specialist trainers who are licensed.

Btw It would be understandable if people wondered if you sold these things. You have been on Boards since 2003 & half your total posts are in this thread so it must mean a lot to you !

runawaybishop

Discodog wrote: »

There are two obvious points with those links. The first is from 2003 & dog training methods have moved on a lot since then. The second was in a report produced by a manufacturer so hardly unbiased.

It doesn't matter who commissioned the report, the fact is that the Senior Vice President for Anti-Cruelty Initiatives and Legislative Services of the ASPCA approved those devices publicly and in unambiguous terms.

So what if the survey was carried out in 2003? Research tells us that these devices came out in the 60's and had a terrible name. They have improved massively in recent times, so logically they have only gotten better since 2003, right?

Discodog wrote: »

There is also a big difference between a shock collar as part of a fence where the dog triggers the shock & a radio controlled shock collar being used by an expert. I have seen radio collars used to train dogs, for example, not to chase livestock & I do think that they can be justified in exceptional cases.
I think that we should have a total ban except for specialist trainers who are licensed.

I disagree, I think the difference is minimal provided the animal is trained properly.

Discodog wrote: »

Btw It would be understandable if people wondered if you sold these things. You have been on Boards since 2003 & half your total posts are in this thread so it must mean a lot to you !

I've been lurking on these forums for years. Its not the first time I have seen the old "you work for competitor/seller" phrases trotted out. I don't work in any way for anyone that has anything to do with these systems. More importantly though, I don't care if you think I do. Facts are facts and should stand on their own merit, irrespective of who posts them. Nothing I have said cannot be googled.

I was put onto this thread by my mum, a dog lover and owner, who was giving out to me about what she considers foolish posts.

Hi Mam.

Hellrazer

Discodog wrote: »

You have been on Boards since 2003 & half your total posts are in this thread so it must mean a lot to you !

Thats unfair and irrelevant to the discussion.

Zapperzy

runawaybishop wrote: »

The collar is a tool. As with any tool if it is abused or used incorrectly it can cause issues. The problem with that collie stems from misuse by its owners.

Do you know this collie yourself? Maybe it was misuse maybe it wasn't, the person who posted it was of the opinion it wasn't and he/she knows the owner and dog and you don't so I would be inclined to believe the person who actually knows the dog.

runawaybishop wrote: »

I'd also like to point out that many systems will shut down if the animal escapes though the fence, so there should be no issues with dogs being "trapped" outside the boundary.

The dog can't read so doesn't know this, as far as they are concerned they walk over that boundary and they get shocked.

runawaybishop

Zapperzy wrote: »

Do you know this collie yourself? Maybe it was misuse maybe it wasn't, the person who posted it was of the opinion it wasn't and he/she knows the owner and dog and you don't so I would be inclined to believe the person who actually knows the dog.

As the poster described it looks like a case of misuse of a tool. Replace the collar with anything else and the you would arrive at the same conclusion.

"She went nuts when she was shocked and became extremely freaked out and vicious and went around attacking everything and anyone and growling insanely"

Looks like a great example of someone that did not train their dogs with use of the collar correctly.

In his 2005 textbook on training and behavior, Steven Lindsay writes "Instead of instilling social aversion and anxiety ... animal and human research supports the notion that competent shock [collar] training appears to promote positive social attachment, safety, and reward effects that may be provided and amplified via affectionate petting and reassuring praise. The preponderance of scientific evidence suggests that [electrical stimulation] escape/avoidance and pain reduction should promote long-term effects that are incompatible with fear and stress, making the trainer an object of significant extrinsic reward that actually enhances the dog's welfare via an improved capacity for social coping, learning, and adaptation"

Zapperzy wrote: »

The dog can't read so doesn't know this, as far as they are concerned they walk over that boundary and they get shocked.

Posts in this thread have made several claims on the behaviour of these collars that are not factual. I did not once suggest the dog should be able to read, but the owner can and is responsible for the dogs training.

Discodog

runawaybishop wrote: »

It doesn't matter who commissioned the report, the fact is that the Senior Vice President for Anti-Cruelty Initiatives and Legislative Services of the ASPCA approved those devices publicly and in unambiguous terms.

It does matter because an balanced report would give the pros & cons. You will never get that from a manufacturers report. The Americans do tend to have a different view. The systems were designed & produced in America.
The fact remains that practically everyone involved in Animal Welfare here opposes them.

runawaybishop wrote: »

I disagree, I think the difference is minimal provided the animal is trained properly.

It has nothing to do with training. The dog gets a shock as a result of it's own actions which is worlds apart from it getting a shock whilst being watched by an expert. And as I have already said I am not even sure about the validity of expert use.

Datsit

I have used the PETSAFE syatem successfully. The dog needs to be trained to it, no sooner than 6 months.
Regualar checks are required and when they get used to it you can have the collar loose and they will back away when they hear the buzz. If trained properly, a dog should only ever get shocked once. My father has used them for years.
I would go to a forum specific to the breed of dog you have.

Hellrazer

Datsit---Ive edited your post to remove the part where you are complaining about users in this forum and I suggest that you think before you post.That type of comment is not welcome .

Discodog

Datsit wrote: »

Regualar checks are required and when they get used to it you can have the collar loose and they will back away when they hear the buzz. If trained properly, a dog should only ever get shocked once.

That advice is probably worse than using the collar as specified by the manufacturer. If you loosen the collar & rely only on the warning there will be nothing to stop the dog when it challenges the fence say in response to a cat or rabbit. You only have to watch Sheepdog trials or obedience competitions to see that no amount of training guarantees a perfect reaction every time.

Anyone who thinks that training makes shock collar acceptable should read the views of Dog Training Ireland:

"In our opinion shock collars fail to address the underlying behavioural problem and are more likely to cause other serious behavioural problems such as aggression, fear, stress, urination without control, lack of ability to cope, depression, anxiety, pain and other physical problems. The use of Shock collars cause confusion to the dog as to where the shock came from and the dog is more likely to associate the shock with the presence of the owner or anything in the dogs immediate vicinity at the time the shock occurs"

http://www.dogtrainingireland.ie/articles/DTI_18122007_ElectricShockCollars.php

TooManyDogs

At the end of the day the OP asked for anyone with experiences with these fences.

GalwayGunner wrote: »

We have a garden of around 1/2 acre near a relatively busy road. We're considering getting a Electric Dog Fence and have looked at quotes for around €250.

Does anyone have any experience with these? Do they actually work?

I've outlined my experiences, they weren't good and I don't feel the need to back up my person experiences with scientific studies, and at the end of the day I have absolutely no reason to lie about my experiences.

I experienced very regular breaks in the wire and power failure, my collie very quickly connected the warning beeps from the base unit with the fence not working

I experienced my collie constantly breaking through the wire because the shock was worth it to her in order to go wandering. We ended up swapping her collar (10kg - 20kg) for my labs collar (20kg - 40kg) in the hopes that would work, it didn't, her desire to wander was stronger. This is a dog who climbed up a hedge with a buster collar on and a ripped crutiate ligament to get out to wander.

In my experience success depends on the dog in question, some take to it fine and it's a great solution for some people, others found it didn't suit their dog. Of course some people will have failure because they didn't follow the training regime set out in the manual but the majority (including myself) did do the training correctly and it still didn't work. To say failure is only down to lack of correct training is very short sighted.

In my experience my dogs got shocked going through the fence both ways which meant 1 dog wouldnt go back through, the collie would go back through so I wouldnt know she had been out at all.

In my experience my collie got continual shocks when her collar got caught in the hedge, I didn't stop to time how long it shocked her for, I simply ran to free her.

Im my husbands experience the shock level we had the collie's collar at really really hurt him and still didn't prevent her going out.

There's very little in pet ownership that requires a large cash investment without a guarantee of success, most training aids are far smaller amounts of money so if they don't suit your individual dog it's not the end of the world. If you have the cash to spend on a shock fence, find it doesn't work and then buy traditional fencing that's one thing. I was regretting the investment of €500 in my fence because I kept thinking how many rolls of wire fence and posts that would have bought.

There simply isn't one guaranteed method of training dogs, everything has to be tailered to your dog. So back to your origional question

GalwayGunner wrote: »

Do they actually work?

In my experience, no they don't work