BBC Horizon - The secret life of the dog

timshel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EibCPQJleL4

Think this is an amazing documentary if anyone is interested....

MiskyBoyy

timshel. wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EibCPQJleL4

Think this is an amazing documentary if anyone is interested....

Looks really good. Thanks for sharing!

Have added it to my 'Watch Later' list on YouTube as I'm too tired right now. I'll give it a watch tomorrow

Wibbs

brilliant programme that one.

Smeefa

Brilliant documentary, really really interesting

Wibbs

The pointing thing is fascinating, though I seem to recall reading a further study that confirmed the study in that programme that unlike dogs when puppies, wolf cubs don't get pointing, however they can learn it if they're habituated to humans, but not as reliably. And apparently they learn to bark more than in the wild too to get human attention. Again not as reliably, nor as fluently. They learn we're deaf compared to them basically Given that our dogs appear to be springing not from one domestication event, that gene flow went back and forth a fair few times in our shared histories I suppose that's not surprising. EG American Grey wolves that have black colouration get that from a domestic dog gene.

I had a fascinating link to an old book digitised online(which sadly I can't find) where a chap in the mid 1800's who lived with native Americans noted this back and forth thing. He noted that the Indians dogs seemed to belong to no one really. That they hung out in the camps begging for food, rarely if ever went hunting with the men funny enough, but were used as pack animals when the tribe migrated. He also noted that as they migrated through the seasons small packs of wolves would follow at a respectful distance and that the dogs would mingle and breed with them. The tribe weren't particularly put out by this close proximity it seems. What was interesting for me in this particular case was what the dogs were used for. The usual and understandable theory is that we hunted together and this improved us both and was the reason for the domestication event, but at least in this case the (ongoing)domestication process had nothing to do with hunting. I suppose "man the hunter and his faithful dog" has more of a romantic ring to it maybe? It does even in our notions of "man the hunter", though the reality is it seems it's the "woman the gatherer" who brought home most of the calories for the group.

The domestication of dogs is really fascinating to me. It's the only time in our history as a species where we've domesticated another apex predator. In the normal run of evolution that leads to direct competition and usually the extinction of one. Think about how amazing that is. Ug says to Uggo back in the day "Uggo, you see that hugh hairy aggressive bastid with the huge effin teeth?" "Yea?" "I reckon he'd make a lovely addition to the family".

Another interesting thing about us and wolves/dogs is we're both about the only apex predator that regularly hunts and takes down animals larger than we are. Our cats are supreme predators, but a cat, even a group of cats isn't gonna have a go at say a full grown goat. They've generally more sense. Dog/human? "See that huge bloody buffalo, sure we'll give it a bash Ted".

Over in the Paleontology forum there was a discussion on why Neandertals went extinct and there have been many good theories. For me in my humble most don't seem to stack up that well the more we find out about our cousins. IMHO one big reason is that we domesticated the wolf and they didn't. The timeline would fit and the advantages for us pretty obvious.

Indeed the advantages were and are pretty obvious for them. In many parts of the world the wolf has either gone extinct(here and the UK, Japan and others) or is endangered or heavily pressured, yet their cousins are in such numbers we have to come up with more and more ideas to try and stop more coming into the world. Neandertals were much stronger than us, top apex predators for nearly 300,000 years. They've even been described as wolves with knives(even their dietary isotopes in the bone match with wolves) The wolf is forced into smaller and smaller areas of wilderness unless we step into ease that, or they butt up against us and sometimes breed with the dogs(Italian wolves are often found with dew claws another dog trait). Neandertals were also more and more restricted into smaller areas of wilderness until they were no longer with us and also we got busy with each other too. The parallels are interesting. Well to me. I'm weird. :)

Discodog

Wibbs wrote: »

Well to me. I'm weird. :)

That makes two of us

I find it fascinating the way that dog have, in effect, developed two languages. One they use for dog to dog communication & the other only dog to human. I am fairly sure, based on my three, that they also learn the dog to human bit off each other.

I was talking to a friend about dogs & we both agreed that it is a bit like a religion in that you either get it or not. None of her friends or her work colleagues understand her love of dogs & her interaction with them. Many of my friends & neighbours are the same. A lot of people "keep" a dog but not all get the full benefit of dog ownership.

Evolution says that the dogs had to gain from forming relationships with us yet, to me, we are the real beneficiaries.