Possible Irish SOPA Law? :/

44leto

Deleted User wrote: »

Lets go back to my post earlier. Thr increase in sales of full albums through digital downloads made up for the loss in psychical CD sales. Singles and sales of a number of tracks off an album but not the full album have increased considerably. By those figures then yes media sales are growing.

just because you think yourself above paying for media does not mean events you can speak for everyone. There's a word for people who would never pay for a book, album, film and it's scumbag.

I know and i don't even try to say any differently, but there is a word for a person who pirates a dvd or a bit of music and buys it later LIAR.

Jesus Shaves

44leto wrote: »

I doubt the total volume of the media sales is growing, let look at the share price trend of the recording industry. Piracy is definitely growing.

The share price is hardly in decline due to the record industries refusal to embrace new technology?

Toby Take a Bow

44leto wrote: »

I doubt the total volume of the media sales is growing, let look at the share price trend of the recording industry. Piracy is definitely growing.

But I can give you one concrete and personal fact, I am buying less media, a hell of a lot less then i did 6 months ago. I have not been in a record store or a video rental place since i start pirating and that is about 5 months now.

And now I am downloading books and even talking books. So 6 months from now I can say with confidence I am not going to grace a bookshop with my presence in that period,

I'd be doing the opposite (except you'd have to take into account I have no job, so the figures would be skewed at the moment). I went through a period of downloading a lot maybe around 2 years ago. Didn't listen to a lot of it and some of what I did download seriously damaged my computer. That wasn't what changed me downloading (illegally) though, it was more that I was downloading stuff I was not going to listen to.

As for downloading books, although I don't have an eReader, why would you need to illegally download? All classics are free! I would say that downloading living authors' work would possibly damage the book industry because they will eventually stop writing so you'll just be left with cr*p but it doesn't sound like that would be too much of a problem for you.

As many people have stated, sales of albums are actually remaining constant, which is pretty good when you consider we're in a recession. I'm not sure how the live industry is doing, but I don't think it's fairing that badly.

Jev/N

As already pointed out in the first page, this is contrary to the Court of Justice EU decision is the Belgian case of SABAM v Scarlett.

It's a non-runner.

The legislation will be brought in but the likelihood is that the application will be highly restricted due to the EU court's ruling.

The only reason this is even being reported so much in mainstream media is due to the immense lobbying by the recording industries and that they are scaremongering

44leto

44leto wrote: »

I know and i don't even try to say any differently, but there is a word for a person who pirates a dvd or a bit of music and buys it later LIAR.

how are they a liar? Please do elaborate? Are you saying that anyone who pirates anything does not buy anything legally or is this another of you frankly ridicolous and I'll informed posts on the subject.

44leto

darokane wrote: »

The share price is hardly in decline due to the record industries refusal to embrace new technology?

They have it is possible to purchase music online legally, but it is also possible to get it for free and just as convenient. I think we both know who would win that.

amacachi

44leto wrote: »

I know and i don't even try to say any differently, but there is a word for a person who pirates a dvd or a bit of music and buys it later LIAR.

BS. I've even bought The Matrix on both DVD and Blu-Ray.

44leto

44leto wrote: »

They have it is possible to purchase music online legally, but it is also possible to get it for free and just as convenient. I think we both know who would win that.

But sales of singles has increased each year since they were made available through online sites. I guess then that we do know who won that

44leto

Deleted User wrote: »

how are they a liar? Please do elaborate? Are you saying that anyone who pirates anything does not buy anything legally or is this another of you frankly ridicolous and I'll informed posts on the subject.

I simply don't believe he is buying or renting the same amount of media he would if he could not pirate.

The irony is although I pirate I am very much in favour of these new regulations, I recognise it has to be stopped somehow. I also recognise it will get a lot worse.

44leto

44leto wrote: »

I simply don't believe he is buying or renting the same amount of media he would if he could not pirate.

The irony is although I pirate I am very much in favour of these new regulations, I recognise it has to be stopped somehow. I also recognise it will get a lot worse.

Please stop thinking that you are some how an authority on this issue as you've priced yourself completely ill informed on this issue.

That sales of singles are growing thanks to digital downloads and that sales of albums through digital downloads are surpassing the drop in CD sales proves that people are buying as much if not more than in the past.

Looking a cinema, studios are making billions in profit each year, the last Transformers alone made over a billion dollars during its time in cinemas alone. Yup, piracy is really damaging the film industry.

low budget film makers are benefiting from piracy. The film Ink made on a tiny, tiny budget did massive business on DVD sales. The reason behind it, piracy. They found that many people who downloaded the film bought the DVD after. Most of those people would never have heard of the film if it wasn't for piracy.

Doc Ruby

44leto wrote: »

They have it is possible to purchase music online legally, but it is also possible to get it for free and just as convenient. I think we both know who would win that.

Share prices have nothing to do with the revenue and bottom line of a company, it has more to do with how the market perceives a company. In the same way that Ireland can technically pay off free market debts, but the free market doesn't like Ireland right now.

I'd say declining share prices have a lot more to do with the campaign of suing their customers and related shenanigans than anything to do with piracy. I mean Apple took a massive punt with their next generation itunes store and where's their share price going?

Bipolar Joe

44leto wrote: »

I simply don't believe he is buying or renting the same amount of media he would if he could not pirate.

The irony is although I pirate I am very much in favour of these new regulations, I recognise it has to be stopped somehow. I also recognise it will get a lot worse.

You're an idiot. Downloading pirated stiff doesn't make you a pirate. Pirating stuff makes you a pirate. Pirate pirate pirate.

Back to the topic, we clearly all recognise that this is a bad thing, and the last few things to get passed (Blasphemy law) have contravened EU law. Dunno what the story is with that now, but whatever, it still went through. So what do? Proper protesting? Comms flood the powers that be? Are we, the Irish, capable of getting off our asses and working together? Just pretend the enemy is British if it helps.

Jesus Shaves

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

KyussBishop

Deleted User wrote: »

I sent a number if emails to Sean Sherlock regarding this when it was first mentioned a few months back. I pointed out the EU law, digital downloads, ect and asked why was it that the Irish government was lobbying on behalf of private companies to help protect profits and restrict access to the Internet. I asked him would they allow sites such as Flickr to be removed as there are numerous copyrighted images on the site or if they would take in google, yahoo, bing, etc which offer easied access to copyright material than any other site. I asked him to provide me with documents/proof that could link the fall of CDs with piracy.

I've yet to receive a reply.

Ya same, sent him a couple of emails but no reply; I'd say he has been getting a lot.

May as well send some more his way; this is his website:
http://seansherlock.ie/

Email and phone contacts: (phone calls more likely to have an effect than email)
sean.sherlock@oireachtas.ie
Phone: 022-53523
Mobile: 087-7402057


Another thing, which fluorescence mentioned, is ACTA; it is an international version of SOPA basically, and the EU will be voting on it at the end of the month, which means it will take effect in Ireland if passed (though may require ratification by all EU member states), so if you contact Sean Sherlock there, please voice against this as well.

I made a post in Politics about ACTA months ago, and updated it a bit today:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76624072

I think there really needs to be a lot more discussion and effort against ACTA, as it's a very big deal and needs to be stopped, but thus far there has been almost no discussion of it.

It would be interesting to see a collective effort to research exactly what is going on with ACTA (i.e. I don't know the details of how it will be brought in exactly, I think it needs ratification from all EU member states), and try to spread awareness about it.

Dara Robinson

NiallSparky wrote: »

Why bother posting about something you obviously don't have the slightest clue about? You should do a bit of research on the differences between stealing and sharing copyrighted material before you post in a thread in which they're clearly going to be discussed.

Your Apple analogy just highlights the ignorance here.

If you are going to have a go at someone for not having their facts straight please do so in a kinder way but also the least you could do is talk about the points he/she made and pull them apart rather than getting personal. I'm not a mod nor am I demanding anything because I started the thread its just common decency.
The fact that you have yet to make any kind of contribution to the topic just makes it worse imho

@Darko, I could not agree with you more mate. I understand why the Content industry and the government are loosing revenue. However I was making the point from, what I suspect is, the Ministers point of view.

squod wrote: »

More jobs for Iceland while Ireland is sending 120,000 people a year off to find work in other countries.

Sorry man, I'm lost here. I'm sure I'm missing something simple here but why jobs to Iceland?

Deleted User wrote: »

You're missing the point and talking complete crap. I posted a link earlier on linking to an article which points out that in the US the increase in legally purchased digital downloads of albums was more than the decline in physical Album sales. Says it all really.

Actually Darko, while you are correct in the figures, its not what the Record and other content industry companies are claiming and thats the myth that is being perpetuated by the EMI's and so on of this world and that is partly what I would imagine Minister of State for Enterprise is attempting to protect. He is wrong and being hoodwinked but he is not aware of that.

Deleted User wrote: »

Just because you make up part of the tiny percent of people who actively steal all their media does not mean that the rest of ate do inclined. Most people who pirate all their films/music/books would never pay for the same content legally. I'm not getting on a high horse or anything, I do download stuff but If I download a film and like it then I'll pick it up on DVD or Blu-Ray at some stage.

That is a very valid and correct point imo. Most people who steal media would not buy it if they were not able to steal it. The things that I torrent are normally things I would not spend money on. And the few things I have torrented that I would have bought normally go on a list of stuff I buy when I get paid. And I know most people, not nerd/tech heads, would be the same.

44leto wrote: »

I doubt the total volume of the media sales is growing, let look at the share price trend of the recording industry. Piracy is definitely growing

Actually mate that is not accurate. More of a myth, perpetuated by the content industry to justify their requests for draconian laws. Although I should not be making any comments as I cant remember where I saw the article I am referring to. However, an in-law (who will remain nameless) of mine used to work for Disney in the games industry and it was him who told me that confirmed that Disney music are making more profit in 2010 then in previous years due to the new streams of income (ie digital sales)

Jesus Shaves

only 38 people signed the petition? come on people pull your finger out

squod

Dara Robinson wrote: »

Sorry man, I'm lost here. I'm sure I'm missing something simple here but why jobs to Iceland?

Read somewhere in the past that Iceland has set it self up to deal with this kind of crap. By providing a safe haven they're gonna coin it in basically.
They are already calling for more capacity from the fibre networks.

under Icelandic laws, searching for files, or providing accessibility to them, is legal, as long as the files provided by the service are not themselves copyrighted. Torrent files, are not themselves copyrighted, but are instead metadata , data about data- describing copyrighted material, as indeed are reviews

.

http://torrentfreak.com/torrentis-case-dismissed-080328/


So it's little tiny poxy lobby group fuhking us over for potential jobs and the government supporting them. Any kind of SOPA legislation will be seen as a disaster for cloud computing like.

HUNK

The petition is here. Sent an email also.

Dara Robinson

44leto wrote: »

I know and i don't even try to say any differently, but there is a word for a person who pirates a dvd or a bit of music and buys it later LIAR.

I think you will find you are wrong, I can already see some posts objecting and I am going to add to them. 1) I buy any game I pirate that I found would have been value for money. IE a great game. 2) I pirate every game I play as I dont want to have to deal with the DRM crap and also I have a Alienware M11xR2 which has no DVD drive and I hate Steam. Like I said before, most people I know are willing to buy stuff they feel was worth it (cause in point someone talking about a small indie film making it good on DVD sales due to originally being pirated) but people are sick of buying something and later finding out you did not get value for money... especially gamers.
There is also something else to look at, the fact that the content industry has been promoting piracy for years. Not convinced? Mike Mozart from Jeepers Media covers it very well in this video if you have 15mins to spare. Well worth watching as is very informative. However, he is very American and so very animated and loud which means very annoying still very informative and worth putting up with Mike.

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Are we, the Irish, capable of getting off our asses and working together? Just pretend the enemy is British if it helps.

LOL nice imagery there, hope it works

KyussBishop wrote: »

I think there really needs to be a lot more discussion and effort against ACTA, as it's a very big deal and needs to be stopped, but thus far there has been almost no discussion of it.

It would be interesting to see a collective effort to research exactly what is going on with ACTA (i.e. I don't know the details of how it will be brought in exactly, I think it needs ratification from all EU member states), and try to spread awareness about it.

I whole heartedly support this and any information regarding this I will pass on to anyone who is willing to listen. Anyone know of any organised groups in Europe dealing with this?

darokane wrote: »

only 38 people signed the petition? come on people pull your finger out

The petition is up less than 12 hours But yes, get the finger out peeps

squod wrote: »

Read somewhere in the past that Iceland has set it self up to deal with this kind of crap. By providing a safe haven they're gonna coin it in basically.
They are already calling for more capacity from the fibre networks.

.

http://torrentfreak.com/torrentis-case-dismissed-080328/


So it's little tiny poxy lobby group fuhking us over for potential jobs and the government supporting them. Any kind of SOPA legislation will be seen as a disaster for cloud computing like.

Great link man, thanks. Some good stuff there we can learn from

Robdude

Personally, I think everyone's support of piracy and the objection to associated laws that go with it, is disgusting.

Just because you *want* to have some piece of media; you are not entitled to it. This seems like such a basic concept to me. It's a very simple question of right or wrong. It costs TIME and MONEY to produce media. Mooching off of other people that are supporting those people is wrong. Morally wrong. You can argue all day that it's not technically stealing - but it is still illegal, still immoral, and splitting hairs over which laws it breaks is nothing but a strawman argument.

People who create content can CHOOSE to give it away. You can do that. Go and make a movie with your own 10 million euro and give it away. Nobody is stopping you. Make your own web comic and allow everyone in the world to access it, reproduce it, sell it, claim it as their own, if you want. You can do that.

Your rights aren't be infringed upon.

But why should other content creators NOT be able to protect their intellectual property? Because you'd rather not pay them? Well, I'd rather not pay for a lot of things - but that doesn't make it right.

With minimal effort - we could curb 90% of illegal piracy that is currently common place. And the only good reason NOT to do this is that people enjoy pirating stuff.

But whatever. As long as you can download new songs for your iPod without paying; who cares, right?

Capt'n Midnight

I bought a dvd last night, it was so blurry I had to watch it with one eye closed...

It must be a Pirate.

Doc Ruby

Robdude wrote: »

Just because you *want* to have some piece of media; you are not entitled to it. This seems like such a basic concept to me.

To an extent you're right, but at the same time you must admit there's a lot wrong with current copyright law.

Something that was produced before Lincoln became president in the US will now only fall into the public domain long after we're all dead. Universal is pulling in $5000 a day from the "Happy Birthday" song. That's nowhere near the original spirit of copyright, which was 12 years.

Its not really an excuse but it certainly something that would remove a lot of the justification for sharing copyrighted works. Say charge an increasing fee per annum to keep works copyrighted. If they are worth anything, let their owners contribute. Before 12 years I would certainly not support any kind of copyright infringement.

However this SOPA/PIPA/ACTA deal is an abomination. It means any site can be taken down without judicial intervention, and widely affects even sites like youtube and wikipedia.

Its classic regulatory capture, up with which we should not put.

Robdude

Robdude wrote: »

Personally, I think everyone's support of piracy and the objection to associated laws that go with it, is disgusting.

Just because you *want* to have some piece of media; you are not entitled to it. This seems like such a basic concept to me. It's a very simple question of right or wrong. It costs TIME and MONEY to produce media. Mooching off of other people that are supporting those people is wrong. Morally wrong. You can argue all day that it's not technically stealing - but it is still illegal, still immoral, and splitting hairs over which laws it breaks is nothing but a strawman argument.

People who create content can CHOOSE to give it away. You can do that. Go and make a movie with your own 10 million euro and give it away. Nobody is stopping you. Make your own web comic and allow everyone in the world to access it, reproduce it, sell it, claim it as their own, if you want. You can do that.

Your rights aren't be infringed upon.

But why should other content creators NOT be able to protect their intellectual property? Because you'd rather not pay them? Well, I'd rather not pay for a lot of things - but that doesn't make it right.

With minimal effort - we could curb 90% of illegal piracy that is currently common place. And the only good reason NOT to do this is that people enjoy pirating stuff.

But whatever. As long as you can download new songs for your iPod without paying; who cares, right?

The issue is not about piracy but rather that our government is prepared to allow record companies to have sites banned due to copyright infringement. What it means is that if EMI was so inclined they could demand that Flickr is blocked because amongst the millions of photos there are some images of album covers or bands signed to their label. What's to stop them having a blog or website that contains negative reviews if their artists taken down some because the album cover is above the review.

What this is, is a deeply flawed piece of legislation that could have a massive negative impact on the countries future especially as it seems that we're reliant on an IT boom to help the country recover

skelliser

forget these pointless petitions.

You need to ring and email Sherlock
constituency office Phone: 022-53523
Mobile 087 7402057

or ring the dail switch board and ask to be put thru to his office 01 618 3000
which il be doing on monday

sean.sherlock@oireachtas.ie

btw the above numbers are freely availible on the net

yammycat

intellectual property does not exist, it's a fabrication dreamed up by greed, people use skills they aquired for free, language , education, the work and innovation of those before them, they are content to take all those for free but then believe they own what they created with these 'stolen' gifts.

squod

Robdude wrote: »

Personally, I think everyone's support of piracy and the objection to associated laws that go with it, is disgusting.

This has nothing to do with piracy. It's about control. Media companies looking to control potentially their greatest ever source of revenue, the internet. You're falling for a cover story. You're in the media, you know how it works.....

Robdude wrote: »

It's a very simple question of right or wrong.

Wanting to control something you don't own. Wanting to profit from something given to us for free? That's wrong.

Robdude wrote: »

Your rights aren't be infringed upon.

Yes they are. My rights are no less important than anyone else's.

** If you haven't read this then please do.

Solair wrote: »

Ireland should absolutely not do anything that could be seen to be remotely anti-internet or damaging to the free-flow of information online.

We are a small country and we should be trying to encourage IT companies to base here not being innovators in internet crack downs!

If you impose draconian laws you could endanger all sorts of future investments in Ireland from major IT companies. Any 'cloud' based service could potentially have material on it that might possibly break insanely tight copyright laws.

How much money does Ireland Inc. make from CD sales?? I would doubt it makes very much.

Vs. how much money do we make from inward investment from Google (YouTube), Facebook, Twitter, and umpteen other companies all of whom operate in the zone of free-flow of information.

We will scare off "cloud computing" investors, scare off companies from putting major networking infrastructure here etc etc etc.

The Government would want to tread very carefully and not just cave in to media company lobbyists.

Doc Ruby

The EU ACTA law is being voted on shortly anyway, which makes competitive considerations within the EU moot if it passes.

Ach these corrupt politicians.

Capt'n Midnight

44leto wrote: »

Amazon still pay VAT on that sale, but to the British government.
All I know is there use to be at least 6 video shops within a mile of me, now there is one, the same for record shops.

I can remember when there were NO video shops and a LOT more cinemas.

The first time I saw Diamonds Are Forever was at a party, projectionist and 16mm film. Now gone.

How are sheet music sales doing these days ?

Seriously how are resteraunt sales these days, lots of stuff has gone wallop since the recession started. Why should the copyright holders be given protection from the economic reality that people are spending less on entertainment simply because they less disposable income.




Anyone remember the 300 people wrongly accused of downloading through eircom because the third party involved didn't set their clocks when the hour when back ??


Like SOPA , policitians need to ask one question

How many voters are in favour of this legleslation ?

Of course you have to remember just because people say it's wrong to break copyright laws doesn't mean they approve.

gsxr1

Only a matter of time.

to those who use public trackers. . You where warned by many

yammycat

gsxr1 wrote: »

to those who use public trackers.

like 90% of the population