iPhone snobbery in Corporate world

manual_man

this sh1t is seriously startin to piss me off. The amount of times i'm seein a new app advertised, only available for iphone. What the fcuk is wrong with these people??? how many million android users is there worldwide??? The latest snobby gits to do this are Setanta Sports, watching the match there on telly, my ears prick as the commentator mentions the new Setanta Scores app. Available for?? You fcuking guessed it. iphone only. wànkers

PogMoThoin

manual_man wrote: »

this sh1t is seriously startin to piss me off. The amount of times i'm seein a new app advertised, only available for iphone. What the fcuk is wrong with these people??? how many million android users is there worldwide??? The latest snobby gits to do this are Setanta Sports, watching the match there on telly, my ears prick as the commentator mentions the new Setanta Scores app. Available for?? You fcuking guessed it. iphone only. wànkers

Iphone users buy more apps, simple. We Android users have a better selection of free ones.

manual_man

PogMoThoin wrote: »

manual_man wrote: »

this sh1t is seriously startin to piss me off. The amount of times i'm seein a new app advertised, only available for iphone. What the fcuk is wrong with these people??? how many million android users is there worldwide??? The latest snobby gits to do this are Setanta Sports, watching the match there on telly, my ears prick as the commentator mentions the new Setanta Scores app. Available for?? You fcuking guessed it. iphone only. wànkers

Iphone users buy more apps, simple. We Android users have a better selection of free ones.

The Setanta app is a free app. I've noticed this for other free apps recently. It's just snobbery, simple as

Tom Dunne

manual_man wrote: »

It's just snobbery, simple as

It is anything but.

The developer tools and libraries available for iOS are top class and, more importantly, have been around longer. Therefore you have more people who are familiar with programming iOS than Android. Though, of course that is changing.

Ballyman

Tom Dunne wrote: »

It is anything but.

The developer tools and libraries available for iOS are top class and, more importantly, have been around longer. Therefore you have more people who are familiar with programming iOS than Android. Though, of course that is changing.

Yes but there are now more Android users in the world than iOS so would it not make sense for companies to develop both simultaneously?

Fair enough for game developers who get paid more for Apple Apps so that's understandable why they would be released first but free Apps from multinationals is just plain thick.

The Irish Independent and Ulster Bank for example both only have iOS Apps and have had for a very long time.

srsly78

Apps aren't needed for many things in android, coz it's not crippled like the iphone. Just use browser and watch setanta/whatever off the webpage.

Yeah flash kinda sucks, but is usable on modern androids.

Keano!

Go buy an iPhone or gtfo.

Mercedes benz's are advertised every day but I can't afford one.


What a moaner!

itsyuranan

iPhone snobbery is everywhere

Atomic Pineapple

It's easier and more defined to develop for iOS, you only have a small set of devices to develop for, its locked down and restricted so you know what you do is going to work on all versions, it's around longer and has more experienced developers.

It makes financial sense to develop for iPhone first then Android for big companies.

manual_man

Keano! wrote: »

Go buy an iPhone or gtfo.

Mercedes benz's are advertised every day but I can't afford one.


What a moaner!

I don't want one ya tit...

GreenWolfe

They'll probably get around to doing one eventually if they see there's enough demand, have you dropped them an email? Similarly, if people you know are that worked up about it, get them to send a polite email too.

As for app availability in general, you'd have more reason to complain if you were using any smartphone that isn't iOS or Android based imo.

manual_man

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

They'll probably get around to doing one eventually if they see there's enough demand, have you dropped them an email? Similarly, if people you know are that worked up about it, get them to send a polite email too.

As for app availability in general, you'd have more reason to complain if you were using any smartphone that isn't iOS or Android based imo.

That's not my point. I've seen so many (mostly free) apps for iphone only recently. I don't buy the excuse that it's more difficult to develop for. So what if it is. Android is a well established phone o.s. by now. Developers are clever folks. I'm sure nearly all of them could whack out an Android app no bother. It comes down to poor customer service. Or just pure ignorance. When i see companies like Setanta and others not offering free apps to other platforms, it just galls me. I can't decide whether they're ignorant, or just stupid. Either way it's extremely poor marketing. Alienating millions of people

jeromeof

One other factor, though I don't know if its widespread and probably only applies to paid for applications, is that some android developers are being ripped off by people who download their app, strip it of the original developers credentials and upload it to chinese appstores/marketplaces as if they had developed it. I read of a few of the bigger developers are treating Android cautiously because of this trend.

GreenWolfe

Ballyman wrote: »

The Irish Independent and Ulster Bank for example both only have iOS Apps and have had for a very long time.

The Indo has an app on the Nokia Store for Symbian here.

manual_man wrote: »

That's not my point. I've seen so many (mostly free) apps for iphone only recently. I don't buy the excuse that it's more difficult to develop for. So what if it is. Android is a well established phone o.s. by now. Developers are clever folks. I'm sure nearly all of them could whack out an Android app no bother. It comes down to poor customer service. Or just pure ignorance. When i see companies like Setanta and others not offering free apps to other platforms, it just galls me. I can't decide whether they're ignorant, or just stupid. Either way it's extremely poor marketing. Alienating millions of people

Just because a mobile OS is used doesn't mean it will automatically get apps. Unless companies see a commercial reason to release an app on any platform it simply isn't going to happen. By targeting the most prominent audience for applications, Setanta will be able to see what works and what doesn't if they choose to produce apps for other platforms imo. It takes time to find developers with the right skills or to get existing developers working properly with different platforms too.

jc84

i love my iphone, so many apps to choose from.....

Blikes

Developing for iOS is easier for developers, Plain and simple.

Most of the popular apps are ported to android a few months later.
Android is much harder to develop for.

Different OS versions
Different screen sizes
Some have physical keyboards
Different buttons and button layouts from different manufacturers
Different hardware

Mac's suffer the same problem, All the cool applications/Programs/Games are available for the PC, Most never make it to Mac and if they do, it's months and years later!

marketty

manual_man wrote: »

I don't want one ya tit...

You want apps that are only available for iPhone = You want iPhone

Now I'm off to play GTA III

manual_man

marketty wrote: »

manual_man wrote: »

I don't want one ya tit...

You want apps that are only available for iPhone = You want iPhone

Now I'm off to play GTA III

Na yer alright i'm enjoyin my extra 32gb of memory i didn't have to pay 200 extra quid for

efb

manual_man wrote: »

Na yer alright i'm enjoyin my extra 32gb of memory i didn't have to pay 200 extra quid for

what you going to put on it???

manual_man

marketty wrote: »

manual_man wrote: »

I don't want one ya tit...

You want apps that are only available for iPhone = You want iPhone

Now I'm off to play GTA III

I DON'T want an iphone. Why does every iphone user think everyone else wants an iphone. Ha. Yer auld one :pac: :pac: :pac:

Blikes

manual_man wrote: »

Na yer alright i'm enjoyin my extra 32gb of memory i didn't have to pay 200 extra quid for

And how many of your apps support move to SD?

marketty

I wish i had more than 32gb I can't fit in all these great apps. I'm gonna have to get the 4S

manual_man

Blikes wrote: »

manual_man wrote: »

Na yer alright i'm enjoyin my extra 32gb of memory i didn't have to pay 200 extra quid for

And how many of your apps support move to SD?

what? i don't need to put apps on sd. they run better off internal memory. there's more than enough memory in my phone to store my apps

manual_man

efb wrote: »

manual_man wrote: »

Na yer alright i'm enjoyin my extra 32gb of memory i didn't have to pay 200 extra quid for

what you going to put on it???

Music, mostly. 33 quid for my 32gb micro sd. savage

manual_man

love the way the iphone users are trollin this thread btw. i don't even look in the iphone forum. sure why would i. looks like some people are in need of validation :pac:

Zaph

I was speaking to someone recently who's developing an iOS app for a major site. He told me that once it's developed the Android app will be much quicker and easier to develop because of the work that will already have been done on the Apple api. Maybe this is true of all apps?

bandit197

marketty wrote: »

You want apps that are only available for iPhone = You want iPhone

Now I'm off to play GTA III

https://market.android.com/details?id=com.rockstar.gta3&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5yb2Nrc3Rhci5ndGEzIl0.

franciebellew

Tom Dunne wrote: »

It is anything but.

The developer tools and libraries available for iOS are top class and, more importantly, have been around longer. Therefore you have more people who are familiar with programming iOS than Android. Though, of course that is changing.

Bang on the money!

marketty

bandit197 wrote: »

https://market.android.com/details?id=com.rockstar.gta3&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5yb2Nrc3Rhci5ndGEzIl0.

What's all the complaining about so?

GreenWolfe

bandit197 wrote: »

https://market.android.com/details?id=com.rockstar.gta3&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5yb2Nrc3Rhci5ndGEzIl0.

For some reason it's marked as incompatible with my phone, even though my phone has an overclocked version of the same chipset in the Xperia Play (which it is compatible with) - Play has an MSM8225, mine has an MSM8225T.

manual_man

Zaph wrote: »

I was speaking to someone recently who's developing an iOS app for a major site. He told me that once it's developed the Android app will be much quicker and easier to develop because of the work that will already have been done on the Apple api. Maybe this is true of all apps?

Well in that case the apps could be launched simultaneously, since the Android version could be developed quickly once the iphone one is done. But that's not the source of most Android users complaints. It's the fact that many apps just aren't being provided to Android users full stop. Take Ballyman's example of the Irish Independent and Ulster Bank. Apps that have been out for ages, and yet don't have an Android version. I'm sorry but i reiterate my point that some companies are highly ignorant when it comes to releasing apps. I doubt any developer would turn down extra money to develop an Android version. Can you not see how people would see this as snobbish on the part of said companies

GreenWolfe

manual_man wrote: »

Well in that case the apps could be launched simultaneously, since the Android version could be developed quickly once the iphone one is done. But that's not the source of most Android users complaints. It's the fact that many apps just aren't being provided to Android users full stop. Take Ballyman's example of the Irish Independent and Ulster Bank. Apps that have been out for ages, and yet don't have an Android version. I'm sorry but i reiterate my point that some companies are highly ignorant when it comes to releasing apps. I doubt any developer would turn down extra money to develop an Android version. Can you not see how people would see this as snobbish on the part of said companies

I took a look at Ulster Bank's FAQ, and judging from the age of some of the questions they don't appear to have any specific interest in Android. If anyone does email Ulster Bank about their lack of an Android app, do be sure to tell them that NIB and AIB have Android apps out now.

Q. Are you developing an Android, BlackBerry or Windows Mobile Banking App?

A. We are working hard to extend the range of mobile services we offer to our customers and this will include other handset types.

Zaph

manual_man wrote: »

Well in that case the apps could be launched simultaneously, since the Android version could be developed quickly once the iphone one is done.

True, but why delay the release of one until the other is ready? Unfortunately they don't have a large team of developers that they can throw onto the project, so their aim is to minimise the length of time between the release of each app.

manual_man wrote: »

But that's not the source of most Android users complaints. It's the fact that many apps just aren't being provided to Android users full stop.

I agree, and I find it frustrating myself. There have been several apps in the past couple of weeks I would have liked to download, but I'd have to get myself an iPhone to do so. Another thing that really bugs me is that the Irish Times have an App of the Week each week in The Ticket. It's always an iOS app, I can't remember ever seeing an android app listed. I expect better from them.

And while we're on the subject of the banks and their offerings, at least Ulster Bank have got an iPhone app, Bank of Ireland haven't even managed that yet.

Tom Dunne

manual_man wrote: »

Can you not see how people would see this as snobbish on the part of said companies

One question for you - have you much development experience in a commercial environment?

manual_man

Tom Dunne wrote: »

manual_man wrote: »

Can you not see how people would see this as snobbish on the part of said companies

One question for you - have you much development experience in a commercial environment?

that's a totally irrelevant question and trying to distract from the point. it's not developers I have a bone to pick with, it's certain companies that are totally ignorant towards their customer user base. Read my previous post

Kensington

manual_man wrote: »

that's a totally irrelevant question and trying to distract from the point. it's not developers I have a bone to pick with, it's certain companies that are totally ignorant towards their customer user base. Read my previous post

Developers only do what they're paid to do.
Companies only pay to do what they think will make them a return.

iOS lends itself to quick development time, quick testing and a fairly well established market. You have literally, about 8 different software/hardware combinations you need to work with.
Quick development + established market = €€€

Android is more unfamiliar, developers will tend to cost you more because there are so few of them at present, it has a multitude of software/hardware combinations you have to account for during development and testing and the market isn't so well established (yet).
You have three combinations to work with for one single Android handset alone:
- vanilla Android
- Android + vendor overlay (Samsung TouchWiz, HTC Sense etc.)
- Android + vendor overlay + carrier overlay (Vodafone, O2, 3, Meteor branding etc.)
You also then need to take account of the fact that not all vendor's have approved the latest version of Android and not all carrier's have approved the latest vendor release. It's more costly, time consuming and risky, frankly, and if a company doesn't want to take a risk, it won't, which I imagine is why many apps simply never make it to Android.

srsly78

Kensington those points are rubbish. Pretty clear you have never tried android development. The opposite is actually true in most cases.

The developer arguments are nonsense, the real reason is marketing. Many companies seem to think YOU NEED TO HAVE AN APP - it's the current fad. Most of the time they could just have a simple webpage, but INSIST on an app. It's almost as if software development didn't exist before the iphone came out. (if they really insist, just make an app that launches the browser for them \o/)

Also android has lagged behind iphone in Ireland (marketing again), handsets didn't appear until later than other countries. Has since overtaken iphone, but many companies don't realise this.

BionicRasher

So this is going to be similar with Windows Phone OS (different hardware etc) too and really big companies are neglecting and alienating a lot of users by just sticking to iOS.
It really is a poor show from companies and TBH it seems they only want to bring out iOS apps and all others are an after thought.
Most large company execs will have a Blackberry but for some reason they dont get an app either.
I really cannot understand why they only do iOS. Snobbery maybe or just pure out of touch with the real world

robinph

Blikes wrote: »

Developing for iOS is easier for developers, Plain and simple.

Most of the popular apps are ported to android a few months later.
Android is much harder to develop for.

Different OS versions
Different screen sizes
Some have physical keyboards
Different buttons and button layouts from different manufacturers
Different hardware

Mac's suffer the same problem, All the cool applications/Programs/Games are available for the PC, Most never make it to Mac and if they do, it's months and years later!

Surely the desktop computer example is the exact opposite of the OP's issue. Windows being the fragmented market with lots of different hardware and software combinations, but it's the platform that gets all the applications.

srsly78

It's nonsense. Different screensizes and versions cause NO problems in development. It is all handled quite gracefully.

The only time you would have issues with hardware is if you were writing a high performance 3d game, this is not applicable for 99.9% of apps.

bd250110

For some reason it's marked as incompatible with my phone, even though my phone has an overclocked version of the same chipset in the Xperia Play (which it is compatible with) - Play has an MSM8225, mine has an MSM8225T.

This sentence explain at least some of the delay. If you release an iOS app, it will more than likely work with any iOS device, there may be limitations on the iPad and iPod Touch due to lack of voice support, some older hardware may not have the latest sensors, such as gyro, accelerometer, etc. But most apps will run, on most hardware combinations. HOWEVER, on android, handsets can be marked incompatible for any number of obscure reasons, even the latest, greatest, high end handsets. This will inevitably lead to a high number of negative reviews in the Market, obscuring the useful reviews and gibing a (possibly) unjustified negative impression of the company.
- Due the the huge number of hardware and software variations it can be difficult to predict how an app will perform on any given handset/software/carrier combination, again there is a risk to the companys image.
- iOS has many developers, lots of obstacles have already been overcome from a UI and functionality standpoint, making in quicker, easier, cheaper and lower risk.
- When companies simply port an iOS app to run on Android, there are usually issues with the app. Navigation is one that springs to mind, it looks and feels wrong to use iOS navigation on Android and performance can sometimes be an issue too.
- Visibility on the market is an issue. Google is king of search, but search in the android market is woeful. App's have poor visibility and can be hard to find. Again this counts against developing for Android.
- iOS users spend more on Apps, use in-App purchasing more and for larger amounts. Developers can more easily monitize from iOS, which is an obvious attraction.

In an ideal world Android would get apps with, or very soon after iOS, but the reality is that iOS is strong and growing in the corporate world (at the expense of BB), an area of Android weakness at present, making visibility of iOS higher to those making decisions. Remember many corporate exec's will just be handed a phone one day, they will not have any choice in the matter and useless they are particularly tech-savvy are unlikely to know much about Android. Combine this with iOS being easier, cheaper, lower risk and more familiar to decision makers and you can see why iOS often gets Apps first, at least for now.

Minstrel27

What annoys me is Sky Go not being available for Android here. Sky say they are working on it which is bollocks. The app is already available on Android for Sky Italia viewers.

george67

srsly78 wrote: »

Apps aren't needed for many things in android, coz it's not crippled like the iphone. Just use browser and watch setanta/whatever off the webpage.

Yeah flash kinda sucks, but is usable on modern androids.

You're right i can open most websites on my nexus. My iphone wouldn't even view the Vodafone site

Spunk84

has boards got a android app:rolleyes:

robinph

Spunk84 wrote: »

has boards got a android app:rolleyes:

Even better, it has a non-platform specific interface:

http://touch.boards.ie

Kensington

srsly78 wrote: »

Kensington those points are rubbish. Pretty clear you have never tried android development. The opposite is actually true in most cases.

The developer arguments are nonsense, the real reason is marketing. Many companies seem to think YOU NEED TO HAVE AN APP - it's the current fad. Most of the time they could just have a simple webpage, but INSIST on an app. It's almost as if software development didn't exist before the iphone came out. (if they really insist, just make an app that launches the browser for them \o/)

Also android has lagged behind iphone in Ireland (marketing again), handsets didn't appear until later than other countries. Has since overtaken iphone, but many companies don't realise this.

Dev, no. Alongside UAT, yes. Unless it's changed dramatically since early-2011, which I don't believe it has, then versioning is very much an issue.

I've seen apps that run beautifully on one handset, but stick it on another handset and it's like a "Force close" parade in the palm of your hand. Then you've apps like Viber that simply won't run on certain Android models - at all.

Try and get a consistent look and feel for an app on both a SGSII and a HTC Hero, say. The difference will be drastic compared to an iPhone 4 and a 3GS - despite being released around the same periods, respectively.

Spunk84

robinph wrote: »

Spunk84 wrote: »

has boards got a android app:rolleyes:

Even better, it has a non-platform specific interface:

http://touch.boards.ie

Very nice

5starpool

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

I took a look at Ulster Bank's FAQ, and judging from the age of some of the questions they don't appear to have any specific interest in Android. If anyone does email Ulster Bank about their lack of an Android app, do be sure to tell them that NIB and AIB have Android apps out now.

Ulster Bank are currently testing their Android app, and it should be released soon, although I don't know the exact date. I know people working in the areas testing it now.

mickoneill30

Something I've suspected is that a lot of users may change the user agent on their browser to make the web server think that it's a desktop browser that's hitting the server. I do that and so do a fair few of the people I know. It stops the mobile versions of sites popping up when you browse to them.
I'm not sure if you can do that with IOS browsers.
For an example if I go to html5test.com it detects my browser as Safari 5.0 on Mac OSx 10.6.3
My browser is Dolphin HD on Android 2.3.3 using the desktop user agent.

So when a company is analysing their stats they'll see that desktop browsers are number one, then IOS browsers, then Android. Given stats that say IOS hits are way more than Android hits, which platform would your company concentrate on first.

I'm hoping that the applications that provide the stats are smart enough to differentiate between an Android & a PC desktop browser but I'm not sure, and it depends on how many people know how to change their User Agent on their Android phone. I'd guess it's at least 20% of users.

srsly78

Kensington wrote: »

Dev, no. Alongside UAT, yes. Unless it's changed dramatically since early-2011, which I don't believe it has, then versioning is very much an issue.

I've seen apps that run beautifully on one handset, but stick it on another handset and it's like a "Force close" parade in the palm of your hand. Then you've apps like Viber that simply won't run on certain Android models - at all.

Try and get a consistent look and feel for an app on both a SGSII and a HTC Hero, say. The difference will be drastic compared to an iPhone 4 and a 3GS - despite being released around the same periods, respectively.

Your force close was due to not catching out of memory exception. Programmer error. Put a try/catch in and solved. It doesn't show on some devices coz they have more memory. Iphone doesn't even multitask so it doesn't have this problem :P

I know this from experience releasing a multi-million dollar android project on multiple handsets.

It's simple to get the same look on an sgs2 vs hero. You do need two different layouts but this is trivial. HTC Sense has absolutely no impact on this (aside from is using up memory, see above).

How to easily target 99% of android handsets: target android 2.2. Don't need to target newer versions unless you need some shiny new feature like Google Wallet that noone uses yet. No android developer complains about fragmentation, only people in the media that heard from a "mate" apparently.

Draupnir

srsly78 wrote: »

No android developer complains about fragmentation

I can confirm for you, that is not the case. I have complained about fragmentation many times. You shouldn't make statements you can't back up.

The big issues for me, as a developer, have always been the quality of the development tools for Android and the extremely poor marketplace/deployment implementation.

I think businesses go for iPhone apps first because it is possibly easier to gain funding for them as they add significantly more marketability to a service or business than an Android app does. This is the perception of the public in general. I doubt many, if any, businesses consider the developer's feelings.