Graduate jobs in the civil service (AO)

maxol

Lockstep wrote: »

Once they've decided on the people who'll be interviewed, are the exam results still relevent then? As in, do they factor into your final result or was it just for weeding people through to the CV stage.

Hard to say...I mean I guess if you scored No.1 in exams but are a complete moron ininterview then they're gonna disregard interview but realistically it's probably gonna be a combined thing. The job sim was the heighest weighted portion of the exam so they want those who have a head for a job situation so experience will be important Imho

phoenix999

I would imagine that the results would still be relevant at interview stage. They would be weighted alongside qualifications, work experience etc. Although I only ranked 213 in Hr, I have two 1st class Masters degrees and few years experience. So I would welcome a supplementary application. Wishful thinking maybe?

noodler

phoenix999 wrote: »

I would imagine that the results would still be relevant at interview stage. They would be weighted alongside qualifications, work experience etc. Although I only ranked 213 in Hr, I have two 1st class Masters degrees and few years experience. So I would welcome a supplementary application. Wishful thinking maybe?

Once you are at interview stage my gut feeling is:

They are not really going to care if you got one or two more multiple choice questions correct than somebody who has better qualifications and more/better experience.

I'd have thought the exam's main purpose was to reduce the numbers.

maxol

phoenix999 wrote: »

I would imagine that the results would still be relevant at interview stage. They would be weighted alongside qualifications, work experience etc. Although I only ranked 213 in Hr, I have two 1st class Masters degrees and few years experience. So I would welcome a supplementary application. Wishful thinking maybe?

Pretty similar to me..well only one first class MA (just graduated) but 11 years experience.

phoenix999

Would be something badly wrong if someone with 11 years experience wasn't interviewed. I've met people who were geniuses at maths and tests but who were sadly lacking social skills and practical good sense.

maxol

Yeah...here's hoping logic is prevalent in this process!!

anbodhran

phoenix999 wrote: »

Would be something badly wrong if someone with 11 years experience wasn't interviewed. I've met people who were geniuses at maths and tests but who were sadly lacking social skills and practical good sense.

Every role is different. For some jobs employers actually need the maths genius, and at times it would help if they were dull and boring as it wouldn't distract them from their work.

For other roles obviously different skillsets are required. For something like economics a person with a really top quality Masters etc. might be a far better candidate than someone who doesn't but still has experience - but not necessarily all good experience.

Very hard to generalise.

noodler

Yeah, pointless debate perhaps - preparing and doing your best on the day is going to be your best chance regardless.

bij

Did anyone get a message saying sorry you have been unsuccessful? It looks like they ranked everyone so unless you are in the top 30 you don't know if you will get through to stage 3? Does the email saying you have been successful and ranked x mean that you will, at some stage, be asked to complete the application form?

noodler

I am in the 200s and was told I will get a form to fill out soon for stage 3 so who knows?

delricyo

From past experience, I can say with almost 100% confidence that the exam result is binned as soon as you reach interview

It's like you are starting again in a separate competition

Oh, and you can pretty much guarantee that any uploaded cv's won't be looked at. They do things their own way !

Toasterspark

I got just inside the top 100 for the HR and Economics campaigns (both of which I'm definitely qualified for).

I got inside the top 130 for Banking and Finance (probably not as qualified) and Tax Policy (shouldn't have clicked that box really, so I'm sure I'll be dropped for this one).

Good luck all!

maxol

bij wrote: »

Did anyone get a message saying sorry you have been unsuccessful? It looks like they ranked everyone so unless you are in the top 30 you don't know if you will get through to stage 3? Does the email saying you have been successful and ranked x mean that you will, at some stage, be asked to complete the application form?

Yeah would love to hear if anyone was unsuccessful or did everyone 'pass'

sophya

Is the rank they gave you in the message the actual place you were ranked regarding everyone else. If so I am stunned, got ranked 1 for human resources and 2 for law. Course I still might screw up the interview royally

maxol

sophya wrote: »

Is the rank they gave you in the message the actual place you were ranked regarding everyone else. If so I am stunned, got ranked 1 for human resources and 2 for law.

Wow..think it's safe to say you'll be getting an interview and most likely a job lol! Well done :-)

sophya

maxol wrote: »

sophya wrote: »

Is the rank they gave you in the message the actual place you were ranked regarding everyone else. If so I am stunned, got ranked 1 for human resources and 2 for law.

Wow..think it's safe to say you'll be getting an interview and most likely a job lol! Well done :-)

If I don't make a balls of the interview lol

Lockstep

CV stage is where I'll struggle then. I've a First class honour degree and stuff like the army reserves and was elected to the SU in my university but I've no masters or relevent legal experience.

Pawwed Rig

sophya wrote: »

Is the rank they gave you in the message the actual place you were ranked regarding everyone else. If so I am stunned, got ranked 1 for human resources and 2 for law. Course I still might screw up the interview royally

I presume you weren't the girl beside me at the test that filled out the wrong sheet for test 1 then

Graciefacey

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

sophya wrote: »

Is the rank they gave you in the message the actual place you were ranked regarding everyone else. If so I am stunned, got ranked 1 for human resources and 2 for law. Course I still might screw up the interview royally

I presume you weren't the girl beside me at the test that filled out the wrong sheet for test 1 then

Exactly! I'm wondering where the people who forgot their email, stood in wrong line forgot pencils calculators etc, placed. I REALLY hope they didn't pass or there's no hope for the rest of us with those geniuses about

Dancer656

Lockstep wrote: »

CV stage is where I'll struggle then. I've a First class honour degree and stuff like the army reserves and was elected to the SU in my university but I've no masters or relevent legal experience.

I'm kinda similar as I have no relevant legal experience either. I have a masters degree and finishing up my second one at the moment.The thing is we're just guessing and tying ourselves up in knots.

maxol

In my exam one guy came in, did all the registering sat in his seat, laid out his pencils etc then asked if it was ok to go the loo, grabbed his bag and never came back!! This was way before it actually started!

InReality

Congrats if you got a letter and commiserations if you didn't.
The process is quite slow though , the main thing with the PAS is that they be fair and transparent with everyone , so speed of decisions is not the priority it might be in the private sector.
On the plus side once you pass the threshold you might get a call to interview as long as the competetion if still in progress, I got a call to an EO interview about 2 years after the tests.

Also the rank in the tests makes NO difference in the final decision:)
I brought my rank up at interview, and was looked at as if I had 2 heads.
Its all about showing competentcies (sp)

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Thanks for the response

Really? That long.

Tell me. What is the working environment like? I have been in private sector for 15 years so am thinking it might be a culture shock?

Its more relaxed in my experience. I worked in the private sector (in IT) for 6/7 years before joining the CS.
It depends a lot on your boss and what dept your in though.
Revenue is pretty pressured for example.

Its a bit like the military in some ways though ~ "grades" , as in CO , EO , AO etcs quite important.
Most people at AO , HEO and above are pretty with it and at least as good as any in the private sector IMHO.


I think its a great place to work. If your prepared to stand up for yourself and are ambitious there are lots of chances to improve and do good meaningful work , esp if you go in at AO grade.

Graciefacey

maxol wrote: »

In my exam one guy came in, did all the registering sat in his seat, laid out his pencils etc then asked if it was ok to go the loo, grabbed his bag and never came back!! This was way before it actually started!

Oh dear. Riding the porcelain truck.I would imagine!

phoenix999

sophya wrote: »

Is the rank they gave you in the message the actual place you were ranked regarding everyone else. If so I am stunned, got ranked 1 for human resources and 2 for law. Course I still might screw up the interview royally

Many congratulations. Did your email mention anything about the submission of CV/additional application form?

maxol

Oh yeah, Sophya what did your email say?

billyhead

I have qualified for the interview stage and was just wondering if anyone thinks a second class honours rather then a first class honours degree will stifle my application. I have a 2.1 degree in business majoing in Finance/Accounting and I am on the final interview panel for the Economics and Finance positions. I do have a Graduate Diploma in IT from DCU aswell but that would not be relevant.

phoenix999

2.1 is a perfectly good degree. A Lot will come down to performance on the interview day. I think you have to do some sort of management exercise followed by the interview itself. I wouldn't worry if I was you.

sophya

My email was the same as dancer656 where they don't know the final dates yet

noodler

billyhead wrote: »

I have qualified for the interview stage and was just wondering if anyone thinks a second class honours rather then a first class honours degree will stifle my application. I have a 2.1 degree in business majoing in Finance/Accounting and I am on the final interview panel for the Economics and Finance positions. I do have a Graduate Diploma in IT from DCU aswell but that would not be relevant.

Sorry, what did your email say exactly?

Something about Stage 3 and another writeen application form?

Something about the interview dates not being decided yet?

cee_jay

My email for HR campaign states:

Further to your participation at Stage 2 of the above campaign I am pleased to inform you that you have been successful at the selection tests in Croke Park and have been placed on the order of merit for the above mentioned Subcampaign.

Currently we do not have dates as to when the shortlisting/interviews will take place for this particular Subcampaign however once dates have been finalised this office will contact candidates directly

Feedback on your performance at the tests will issue towards the end of April. I would like to thank you for your participation in the selection process and wish you the best for the future.

The economics campaign has details on receiving an application form this week.

maxol

Yep mine says exact same. Where did you place Cee Jay?

boobar

noodler wrote: »

Its weird: It reads like this:

"Further to your participation at Stage 2 of the above Campaign I am pleased to inform you that you have been successful at the selection tests in Croke Park....
......
.....Very shortly you will receive an email to the email address you provided at application stage, this email will contain the Stage 3 detailed application form which you must complete and return as directed.
.....
....Feedback on your performance at the tests will issue towards the end of April. I would like to thank you for your participation in the selection process and wish you the best for the future."


The first two parts sound like you are progressing whilst the final bit sounds like a PFO!

PAS have a policy of giving feedback to all candidates whether they were successful or not. So don't be put off by the last line.

Congrats on your test result and best of luck in the next stage.

billyhead

noodler wrote: »

Sorry, what did your email say exactly?

Something about Stage 3 and another writeen application form?

The below is how the e-mail I received is stated

Further to your participation at Stage 2 of the above Campaign I am pleased to inform you that you have been successful at the selection tests in Croke Park
Very shortly you will receive an email to the email address you provided at application stage, this email will contain the Stage 3 detailed application form which you must complete and return as directed.

Feedback on your performance at the tests will issue towards the end of April. I would like to thank you for your participation in the selection process and wish you the best for the future."

So I presume then I will still not be guaranteed an interview? Do they shortlist from the applications forms/CVs?

Chuckie86

I ranked 305 for the law campaign and got an email saying similar " no dates finalised yet" does anybody know if 305 is likely to be called for an interview? and is there typically a long wait for interview scheduling?? Thanks.

maxol

Not to be looking for unhappy people but I would love to hear from
Someone who got a rejection. Just curious if they placed everyone?

footlose

Ya i heard of a few people who did not get a successful email. They got something about regrettably you did not make it.

Marvar88

Hey guys, long time browser of the site but never posted before. Came on to take part in this thread.

I applied under two sub-campaigns, Law and Economics. I received the same e-mails as everyone else. It looks like anyone that passed them (and I assume most people did, considering the level of participants) was placed.

I finished 31st in Economics and 66th in Law. I have been reading the comments and it seems like only the higher ranked ones will be called back. So I don't know where that will leave me. Hopefully I will get called back for Economics anyway. They said they will send a detailed application form by the end of the week. I'm not quite sure what to make of that and how that contributes to your rank.

Sure we'll see what happens. Well done to everyone who took part!!

InReality

billyhead wrote: »

I have qualified for the interview stage and was just wondering if anyone thinks a second class honours rather then a first class honours degree will stifle my application. I have a 2.1 degree in business majoing in Finance/Accounting and I am on the final interview panel for the Economics and Finance positions. I do have a Graduate Diploma in IT from DCU aswell but that would not be relevant.

Nope.
My guess is that the ranking for interview will be mainly based on the tests.
Clear cut cases where qualifications are not met will be cut.

If the numbers are very small in a sub caterogy then PAS may rank qualifications in some way.

BTW in the interview it won't be considered at all - the marks there are all on how you answer the questions.

retroactive

1. Law - placed 121 on the order of merit - Successful
2. Human Resources - placed 50 on the order of merit - Successful
3. Banking and Finance - placed 77 on the order of merit - Successful
4. Economics - placed 63 on the order of merit - Successful

I'm 21, have a second class degree in law and economics and I am currently studying in King's inns. Good track record of employment and research experience.

What are my chances? and what am I facing? Quite shocked that it could take a year before the first day at work.

Congrats to everyone that was successful.

nehemiah

Did a lot of people put down more than one sub-category?

I'm really curious whether that means such people will be called to more than one interview? Presumably not as it would be a bit ridiculous.

However, if the places relating to economics are being filled up first, I'm curious whether many people would be holding out for a role in another sub-category or just taking the first AO role they can get.

I placed mid-70's in law. However, if there are 20 or 30 candidates above me that have applied under numerous sub-categories I'd feel slightly more encouraged about obtaining an interview.

So much left unexplained really...

Also, as others have said the interviews are competency based on your position in the interviews are irrelevant to whether you get the job or not. What it does do is give you the first shot at getting the job.

maxol

Ridiculous that PAS can't be clearer. This whole process is supposed tonendure fairness, accountability and transparency! Go figure!

maxol

footlose wrote: »

Ya i heard of a few people who did not get a successful email. They got something about regrettably you did not make it.

Cool, thanks! Well I would assume that means that everyone who got a ranking has a shot? If not then why not just cut?

maxol

nehemiah wrote: »

Did a lot of people put down more than one sub-category?

I'm really curious whether that means such people will be called to more than one interview? Presumably not as it would be a bit ridiculous.

However, if the places relating to economics are being filled up first, I'm curious whether many people would be holding out for a role in another sub-category or just taking the first AO role they can get.

I placed mid-70's in law. However, if there are 20 or 30 candidates above me that have applied under numerous sub-categories I'd feel slightly more encouraged about obtaining an interview.

So much left unexplained really...

Also, as others have said the interviews are competency based on your position in the interviews are irrelevant to whether you get the job or not. What it does do is give you the first shot at getting the job.

I only applied in one category.

Lockstep

Yeah, same here. Only the law position interests me and I see no point in taking a job that someone else might really want.
I'm moving to the UK for a masters in September and have a few law firm interviews over the next 2 weeks so not too panicky about this. It must be a lot worse if you have a family or a mortgage.

Delighted that I put down on my application form that I'd do the Irish interview which will be worth extra marks. Didn't think I'd get through the civil service

anbodhran

retroactive wrote: »

1. Law - placed 121 on the order of merit - Successful
2. Human Resources - placed 50 on the order of merit - Successful
3. Banking and Finance - placed 77 on the order of merit - Successful
4. Economics - placed 63 on the order of merit - Successful

I'm 21, have a second class degree in law and economics and I am currently studying in King's inns. Good track record of employment and research experience.

What are my chances? and what am I facing? Quite shocked that it could take a year before the first day at work.

Congrats to everyone that was successful.

First off - you did very well in each. However, despite you're good HR result, you haven't a HR degree or Masters, and I presume aren't a member of CIPD, so you'll probably not do great there.

Between the other three you must have a very good chance of being at least called for interview though?

bij

I would imagine that they will get fully completed application forms for the first x on the sub-campaign and then from that pick x. For economics it seems from the thread that they are looking at first 250 at least, they will probably narrow this down then after they have reviewed applications. I don't think anyone at this point is guaranteed an interview and Stage 3 (i.e completed application form) will establish whether you get to Stage 4 (initial interview). From reading the initial booklet I got the impression they are looking for certain "types" of candidates and will probably get a large pool for the application forms so they can try and get as many of the type of "candidates" that they want.

retroactive

anbodhran wrote: »

First off - you did very well in each. However, despite you're good HR result, you haven't a HR degree or Masters, and I presume aren't a member of CIPD, so you'll probably not do great there.

Between the other three you must have a very good chance of being at least called for interview though?

The law sub-camp is the one that interests me (interestingly, I think this is the first time an economics result has out stripped my law.) Although I would be more than happy to sit interviews in any of the other three areas

Not to put down anyone with a HR masters, but is it really essential? I have worked in managerial roles before and Maslow's "hierarchy of needs" and the theory of X and Y has proven itself to be academic waffle. (I must stress this comes from someone without a HR degree)

I have done a course in alternative resolution, negotiation ,a couple of mediation seminars and things, hopefully I wont be dismissed for having law and economics rather than a HR.

I'd love to just get an interview, although i am worried my age may count against me... I did the younger end of the scale in Croke Park.

Could it concievably be a year between nw and the first day of work though?

Pawwed Rig

Law seems very competitive.

Normally the top X amount of people who pass the exam get an interview but I assume there will be further cuts based on eligibility on the application form others have mentioned.
On the outcome of the interview another panel will be made based on the scores in the interview. Based on that it will depend on the amount of jobs available.

This is the usual practise but we live in strange times now and these can be changed on the whim of a minister.

anbodhran

retroactive wrote: »

The law sub-camp is the one that interests me (interestingly, I think this is the first time an economics result has out stripped my law.) Although I would be more than happy to sit interviews in any of the other three areas

Not to put down anyone with a HR masters, but is it really essential? I have worked in managerial roles before and Maslow's "hierarchy of needs" and the theory of X and Y has proven itself to be academic waffle. (I must stress this comes from someone without a HR degree)

I have done a course in alternative resolution, negotiation ,a couple of mediation seminars and things, hopefully I wont be dismissed for having law and economics rather than a HR.

I'd love to just get an interview, although i am worried my age may count against me... I did the younger end of the scale in Croke Park.

Could it concievably be a year between nw and the first day of work though?

Yes and no in relation to HR. At this stage a Masters has become pretty essential because so many people have them. It ticks off an extra box for the employer. Having done one then you'll more than likely be a member of the CIPD, which is a chartered institute - again which validates your level of ability.

Doing a Masters would give you a heads up on some of the legal essentials, which I'm no doubt you'd be well able for - its just a matter of learning it. It'll also cover some day to day stuff, and then the more strategic aspects of HR and the associated academic waffle.

Lockstep

Anyone know what the story is next: is there a group interview then a face-to-face interview or is there only one more stage?