Horse is fat but fit

Nolimits12

So I've a bit of dilemma. My mare is a sport horse/tb cross and last year she put on a big belly over the snowy winter. I've been working her for the last 6 months and she is worked loads. Problem is now she has become pretty fit so when I work her now its impossible to get her to break a sweat. I'm uphill galloping, doing cross country, a lot of jumping and loose jumping, canter work and canter circles. Shes put on a horse walker for 30 mins a day. I cant cut her feed as its only 12% and her hay I cant cut really can I? I dont want her to get an ulcer. Shes worked 6 days a week and 1 day she a hack in this . She has about 5 hours turn out a day in an arena as cant use the fields.

Can someone please give me advice on this?

fits

Of course you can cut her feed!! Why do you need to feed her if she's fat? I cant get my head around that.

I dont feed my horse hard feed at all. Or hay even. And he lives out 24/7 fully clipped and hunts once a week. He has about 15 acres of grazing but still. If he got thin, I'd feed him. Until then he doesnt need it.

I really cant understand why anyone would give hard feed to a fat horse.

Nolimits12

I asked a nutritionist and she said dont touch her food at all just make her work more.. I am working her so much though! I have asked so many people about this and they all say make her work more.

fits

Why not touch her food? The nutritionist is wrong. Do they work for a feed company perchance?

Horses are the same as humans. To lose weight they need to eat less and move more. She sounds like she's getting lots of exercise so cut down her food. If you see energy levels lapsing, then of course up the food again.

doctor evil

Try trotting very slowly as slow as you can go, esp up hill.

convert

There shouldn't be a problem reducing her feed a little, but you need to be very careful doing it as you need to make sure that your mare is still getting enough food to do the work you're asking of her. You could try reducing the amount of protein you're feeding her, and cutting back on her hay a bit. If you're worried speak to a vet and/or a couple of nutritionists before you change her feed. And remember to introduce any changes in hard feed gradually.

fits

I'd be of a different opinion. Let her have hay/forage ad lib, and cut out the hard feed almost completely (by degrees of course). Feed a tiny token feed if you must.

doctor evil

Is her worming up to date?

Nolimits12

doctor evil wrote: »

Is her worming up to date?

Yes its not worms I know a worm belly when I see one. This is full on jiggly fat!

Trotting slowly to me seems easy though like its long slow distance work. It would have to be hours of slow trot work to actually burn up her FFAs... It feels as if anaerobic work would be best right???

fits

Nolimits12 wrote: »

doctor evil wrote: »

Is her worming up to date?

Yes its not worms I know a worm belly when I see one. This is full on jiggly fat!

Trotting slowly to me seems easy though like its long slow distance work. It would have to be hours of slow trot work to actually burn up her FFAs... It feels as if anaerobic work would be best right???

Can I ask a question? What do you think will happen if you cut down on her feed?

MDFM

I would agree with whats already being said - ie - cut the horse's feed back. However, I also don't agree, i'm sorry, with saying the horse is fit. I've yet to see a fat fit horse. I would cut out the hard feed completely and see how the horse responds - i would be worried about mistaking an energised horse for a fit horse. Cut out the hard feed, continue the exercise, if possible up it a gear and change the routine. Eliminating all other factors (eg worms/injury etc) with a controlled diet and a proper exercise programme you should be able to keep your horses weight under control.

Tess Walsh

Remember if you are feeding haylege it's quiet high in sugar - did you ever think of having her weighed or using a weight tape on her to see how much overweight she is?

Kens

I had similar issues with my IDx he just looks at food & he gains weight ~ he now gets a token feed of Hifi lite & a low cal balancer just to make sure he's not missing out on any essential nutrients & his adlib hay he now looks leaner & fitter than ever :0)

fits

^ I was going to suggest that actually.

If you have to feed anything, a bit of hi-fi lite and a balancer is perfect.

I fed my hunter ( a draught x also) the first season I had him. Didnt feed him much, just sugarbeet and a bit of cool mix and he went bananas. I cut it out and have never needed to feed him since then. If anything, he's still carrying a wee bit of weight and he's hunting sometimes twice a week, and at least once. And hacked out at least twice a week also. Plus a spin on the gallops. Most horses should do just fine on forage. I also wouldnt feed haylage to a fat horse. Generally I think hard feed should only be introduced if it appears that the horse needs it.

Nolimits12

Tess Walsh wrote: »

Remember if you are feeding haylege it's quiet high in sugar - did you ever think of having her weighed or using a weight tape on her to see how much overweight she is?

She looks pregnant

Thanks for the help guys. Still lost about it I cant really cut her hay because I'd be worried about ulceration but I think I may cut her hard feed.

MDFM

Nolimits12 wrote: »

She looks pregnant

Thanks for the help guys. Still lost about it I cant really cut her hay because I'd be worried about ulceration but I think I may cut her hard feed.

but if you dont reduce her feed - you are leaving her open to lots of other problems due to being overweight! If she looks pregnant as you say she does, then she is already a health risk to herself, unless, of course - she isnt in fact foal, by any chance?

Nolimits12

So what can I do? Would it be worth my while speaking with a vet?

She has a big build so like any weight on her really shows up, and she doesn't use her stomach muscles well so to try to get her to tone them is hard.

doctor evil

If she can't use herself properly than she needs a physio or vet. Don't waste money on quacks.

fits

To be fair she's said she'd cut out hard feed. I wouldn't recommend cutting forage until the effects of cutting hard feed are seen
. If you want to reduce nutrient value of hay you can soak it. But see what happens when you cut hard feed first

convert

I'd definitely ask a vet to come and check her out. That way they can determine whether or not your mare is just fat or if there's an underlying condition that needs to be treated. Based on that, they'll be able to advise you regarding her feed, whether hard feed or roughage.

I remember the pony club manual used to have a pretty good introductory chapter on feeding, with recommendations as to quantity of feed/roughage which an average horse should be fed for different types of work. I'm sure BHS books have something similar, along with other books dealing specifically with the topic. It might be worth taking a look at one of them?

However, it is important to remember that all horses are different and feeding needs to be adjusted accordingly.

twomeys

Its not always about reducing feed but maybe a bit more detail on the feed would help. What brand of hard feed are you giving, how much per day and which product from that brand. Are you weighing the hay or giving what you feel she needs?

Thanks

Eoghan

Nolimits12

twomeys wrote: »

Its not always about reducing feed but maybe a bit more detail on the feed would help. What brand of hard feed are you giving, how much per day and which product from that brand. Are you weighing the hay or giving what you feel she needs?

Thanks

Eoghan

The livery yard provides all horses with the same feed. All I know is its pony nuts its 12% protein she gets a scoop in am and a scoop in pm... I can bring her my own feed but its convenient to use theirs and its included in her livery cost anyways. During the xmas she was on a sort of granola like feed with a high sugar content which has probably contributed to the weight. I cant for the life of me think of its brand name...

twomeys

Hi Nolimits,

Thanks for responding to my post. Firstly I have to be straight with you. I am a tack shop who sells feed. We have used every feed there is ourselves and we have tested all the ones we sell before we sell them so any advice I give you here is from our own experience and not trying to promote a brand or a product, I hope thats fair enough.

Now a lot of feeds on the market have a high level of Molasses in them. We call these feeds "junk food for horses". Molasses is cheap and heavy so when you buy a bag of feed and it weighs 20kg a certain portion of that is cheap useless sugar. Molasses has a few down sides. It can make horses difficult to handle and it can give them spikes and rushes of energy that can make riding them uncomfortable and potentially dangerous. All that said there is a possibility your horse is actually fine. Can you do the following for me?

Can you provide:

1. A Picture
2. Weight (approx)
3. Height
4. Type of Frame

Now there is a chance that not only is your horse fit and healthy but she may also be in top condition. One persons "fat" horse is another persons dream horse. Getting a horse in top condition means feeding well to begin with and then working them appropriately to optimise body mass, ie producing a really good top line. Fat turns to muscle when worked correctly. We recently ran a nutrition night and every owner complained that this year it seems very hard to keep condition. The hay and haylage down south anyways had very little nutrition and as a result horses were loosing weight fast, so in a way count your blessings!! Now I dont want to recommend anything till I see a picture if thats ok for the simple reason is that there is a wealth of products out there that will help you. You may be able to cut down or cut out your hard feed altogether or you may need to add a feed balancer so its best if we see a pic that way we can get a better feel for the Horse.

I want to put up a link and yes this is a company we use but what I want you to do is forget the website itself and the products but look at the horses on this page:

http://www.topspec.com/nutritional-advice/

You will notice that they are strong horses. Their catalogue has better pictures but I cant find them on the site. The good news really is that this whole thing shouldnt cost you anything at all to fix or only a small amount so dont worry. I hope this info is of some help.

Regards,

Eoghan & Karen

fits

I think its a good idea to post up a photo also. I also disagree that one person's fat horse is the next persons dream horse. A fat horse is a fat horse end of story! Carrying too much weight puts unnecessary pressure on their joints. And its just as much of a welfare issue as being too thin imo.

OP could also look up condition scoring.
http://www.newc.co.uk/advice/documents/BodyConditionScoringofHorses-NEWC2005.pdf?PHPSESSID=032f83025421cf3eee6c621cc1bda4fc

I sympathise with OP. My horses are all good doers. In the case of my pony mare, its a nightmare to keep the weight off her in summer. She shows cushingoid symptoms and would be prone to laminitis although she only got it once. I like to see them all fairly lean at this time of year before the grass comes through and they'll be put on a smallish bare paddock in early springtime. It didnt stop my hunter becoming a fatty last summer but it could have been worse...

twomeys

Fits,

Your missin my point about fat horse dream horse. My point is to one person a horse may be fat to another it may be in top condition. We do this every day and condition score and inspect horses for people. Until we all see a picture we're obviously guessing but it's important for people not to panic if a horse is over weight. With the right type, brand of feed an the right feed schedule if this horse is over weight either by a small bit or a massive bit it can be rectified very quickly without any side effects. I do understand where your coming from but I do t want to frighten anyone about the downsides of over weight.

There is one piece of god news though. If the animal is over weight then it will be cheaper and easier to get them to the correct weight than if the animal was under weight and you had to build her up. A ribby horse is a lot harder to work with.

Once I see a photo I'll post some product, diet recommendations that you should be able to do easily, affordabley and that should be available in any tack shop near you.

Thanks

Eoghan

convert

Ok, even though there are some really good points being made and information being given, please remember that all information given on this thread is opinion only, and that the OP really needs to seek expert advice, preferably veterinary opinion, before making any adjustments to the horse's feeding regime.

convert

Eoghan, I agree with your point over people's perception of condition. A friend of mine was showing his hunter last year. At one show, a judge told him that the horse would have won if he had been carrying more condition. For a lot of people, that horse in quesiton was considered to have been in very good 'show' condition, with any more weight making him too heavy.

fits

The 'show' condition thing is bizarre indeed. Particularly in the UK. Many show horses are shown in obese condition. Theres a bit of a backlash against it now I think. Many show horses are coming down with a condition known as EMS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_metabolic_syndrome

fits

convert wrote: »

Eoghan, I agree with your point over people's perception of condition. A friend of mine was showing his hunter last year. At one show, a judge told him that the horse would have won if he had been carrying more condition. For a lot of people, that horse in quesiton was considered to have been in very good 'show' condition, with any more weight making him too heavy.

Its a shame that judges are looking for this. I hope your friend didnt listen to the judge

twomeys

Great point Convert regarding a Vets visit I should have pointed that out myself, I must be getting old and forgetful!! Another two options are to weigh the horse, we had a night with our feed company recently and they weighed every horse and it gave you a great guide to where your horse was with their feed. Another option is to get independent blood tests done. There is a feed company in Ireland that can on your behalf for a small fee I think maybe 50 euro send a blood test to Europe to be completely analysed. Although they are a feed company this is nothing to do with them, it merely gives you an accurate view of your horses blood stats and then you can make your own mind up.

Regarding show horses. We were only talking about this yesterday. A lot of big feed companies are UK based and they can sometimes have a different idea to how a horse should be compared to us. As I said though in an earlier post its a lot easier to get them to loose the weight than to put the weight on a horse.

I hope we havent confused OP with all our info but I hope between the lot of us we can at least help them out.

Eoghan

convert

fits wrote: »

Its a shame that judges are looking for this. I hope your friend didnt listen to the judge

Nope, he didn't. He said he wanted a hunter that could actually hunt rather than just a fat, wobbly show horse (although I think he put it a little more politely to the judge! :pac:)