New Dog Pound Statistics

magentas

http://www.anvilireland.ie/dog-pound-statistics.html

Very slowly improving but Ireland has a hell of a long way to go.
Roscommon still has a 77% destruction rate. Also very sad to see that many counties have a 100% destruction rate for greyhounds:(

When are people going to start acting responsibly when it comes to their dogs in this country?????:mad:

Zapperzy

I would imagine the ones that have a huge drop in pts rate is just where a rescue has stepped in as opposed to a change in ways in these areas. So really the country is just completely wedged with dogs at the moment as they aren't being pts'd.

Is there any info on what that cost per dog includes? They don't neuter or microchip and very very few vaccinate and provide basic vet care so would be interested on where they get that figure from as some of them are ridiculously high.

magentas

was thinking that myself zapperzy, Dun Laoighre cost 1400 whereas Cork city is just 80euro. Not sure how they arrive at these figures, like you said there's no neutering, chipping etc.

planetX

The 100% kill of greyhounds is really shameful - why are they treated as less than other dogs.

They make the most beautiful, sensitive pets.

Cherry Blossom

As per forum charter - no discussion of the greyhound racing industry, it has it's own forum.

Whispered

I can imagine that would be like trying to talk about the welfare of the fox in the hunting forum. :pac:

Gareth2011

planetX wrote: »

The 100% kill of greyhounds is really shameful - why are they treated as less than other dogs.

They make the most beautiful, sensitive pets.

I 100% agree with you on this. I have 2 lurchers and a saluki and They are fantastic pets. Very gentle and loving. I wouldn't even dream aboyut using them for hunting. I hate hunting and don't agree with using hounds to do it.

Cherry Blossom

Whispered wrote: »

I can imagine that would be like trying to talk about the welfare of the fox in the hunting forum. :pac:

Then try humanities, people from both sides of the fence are entitled to their opinions but discussion of such topics in API have proven to be more than most people who frequent this forum can stomach, and people are unable to control their emotions when such material is put under their nose.

Discodog

Could the Mods please notify us of changes to the Charter. The heading shows that it was updated on the 28/7/2011. However it seems that Greyhound Racing has been added perhaps by edit on the 3/1/2012.

We can't be expected to check the charter every time before we post. If we start a thread, in another Boards forum, can we link to it here so that the vast majority of interested members will know that the thread exists ?

I was under the impression that posting in the Greyhound Racing forum against racing is not allowed.

falabo

yes I agree Greyhounds are BEAUTIFUL, calm , loyal and sensitive dogs. They probably are one of the best dogs to own as a pet.

star-pants

Discodog - brief reply as I'm in work, I've updated the date in the title of the Charter, it was most likely an oversight. I will see about creating announcements on the A&PI forum when relevent amendments are made to the charter so that it gets the attention of posters.

Hellrazer

Discodog wrote: »

Could the Mods please notify us of changes to the Charter. The heading shows that it was updated on the 28/7/2011. However it seems that Greyhound Racing has been added perhaps by edit on the 3/1/2012.

The Greyhound bit was always there.From the 27/7/2011
The edit was by me on the 3/1/201 and was an edit related to Rescues.
The post only shows the last edited date--even if you make no changes the date at the bottom changes-like Ive just done.I didnt change one full stop but the date has changed.

We can't be expected to check the charter every time before we post. If we start a thread, in another Boards forum, can we link to it here so that the vast majority of interested members will know that the thread exists ?

Maybe users should check it every time before they post that way some users might actually eventually understand the rules.
As for posting a link from one forum to another--No problems there as long as its not to stir things up in either forum an example being an anti hunting thread linked to in A+P.

I was under the impression that posting in the Greyhound Racing forum against racing is not allowed.

If its part of their rules then you have to follow that forums rules.

Discodog

Zapperzy wrote: »

Is there any info on what that cost per dog includes? They don't neuter or microchip and very very few vaccinate and provide basic vet care so would be interested on where they get that figure from as some of them are ridiculously high.

The latest stats contain a lot of information that we have not had before. The Finances table gives an income & deficit figure for each LA & an expenditure figure.

672 Greyhounds were killed in the Pounds with 202 being killed in Clare where the Pound is run by the ISPCA.

The total number of dog licenses has gone down - no surprises there !

All the figures are downloadable here - top link on the page:

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/LocalGovernment/DogControl/

EDIT: I have spoken to ANVIL & the cost per dog assumes that all of the expenditure figures in the table is allocated to Dog Control. We are seeking clarification on this.

Discodog

Hellrazer wrote: »

The Greyhound bit was always there.From the 27/7/2011

Well I must be going senile because when I was infracted for starting a Greyhound thread the reason given was "soapboxing" & not because it was a banned topic.

Hellrazer wrote: »

Maybe users should check it every time before they post that way some users might actually eventually understand the rules.

It would make life much easier for the Mods if you just post a short list covering what can be discussed rather than a long list of what can't

mosi

Discodog wrote: »

Well I must be going senile because when I was infracted for starting a Greyhound thread the reason given was "soapboxing" & not because it was a banned topic.

Same here, when I was banned for starting another greyhound thread, the reason given made no mention of greyhounds being the issue. I read over the charter after that and saw no mention of greyhound discussion not being permitted.

Many of us here have greyhounds as pets and, as many of them are byproducts of the racing industry, albeit the ones that got lucky (as opposed to the majority pts in the pound statistics), it is surely reasonable to discuss why so many are pts? Many aspects of why dogs end up in rescue are frequently discussed here, and I find it unfair that greyhounds are once again being treated as somewhat different to other pet dogs

Discodog

There is some saying about truth & statistics. The Clare Pound figures make no sense.

In 2009 Clare seized 1145 dogs & none were collected or surrendered.
In 2010 Clare seized no dogs & 1160 were collected or surrendered.

Hellrazer

Discodog wrote: »

Well I must be going senile because when I was infracted for starting a Greyhound thread the reason given was "soapboxing" & not because it was a banned topic.

The Greyhound stuff was added on the 19/12/2011.So I apologise for my earlier mistaken date.

It would make life much easier for the Mods if you just post a short list covering what can be discussed rather than a long list of what can't

No it would make it much easier if users stopped moaning about the rules.There are other fora on the web where the rules are less strict--youre welcome to post there anytime.

Hellrazer

mosi wrote: »

Same here, when I was banned for starting another greyhound thread, the reason given made no mention of greyhounds being the issue. I read over the charter after that and saw no mention of greyhound discussion not being permitted.

At least get your facts right--You werent banned for starting a greyhound thread.You were banned because you started two threads(the second one after being warned by a mod) trying to boycott a charity event that was run in a greyhound park.

Many of us here have greyhounds as pets and, as many of them are byproducts of the racing industry, albeit the ones that got lucky (as opposed to the majority pts in the pound statistics), it is surely reasonable to discuss why so many are pts? Many aspects of why dogs end up in rescue are frequently discussed here, and I find it unfair that greyhounds are once again being treated as somewhat different to other pet dogs

Ill tell you what--You can discuss greyhounds and their ending up in rescue/being pts as long as you can do it in a civilised manner.The reason for the ban was that there were users using this forum to post their personal agenda against the greyhound industry.This forum is not the place for that.
So fire away--but the first time someone starts a personal agenda/starts to try and cause a flame war Im reinstating the rule and will issue a ban without warning--So let s try and discuss this like adults??
Im going to amend the charter for now.

Discodog

Hellrazer wrote: »

No it would make it much easier if users stopped moaning about the rules.There are other fora on the web where the rules are less strict--youre welcome to post there anytime.

With respect there are other fora on Boards. Here is a recent thread which is less than complimentary about a certain well known rescue. Now if such topics are banned in API because of the threat of legal action why are they allowed elsewhere on Boards ? Is it OK to start a thread like this & then mention & link to it from API so that interested people can post ? And please note that I am not trying to take this thread away from an important topic. I am just responding to your remarks.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056516428

Discodog

Hellrazer wrote: »

So fire away--but the first time someone starts a personal agenda/starts to try and cause a flame war .

Most of the posters on API have personal agendas so does everyone on Boards. So we can discuss the Industry but not criticise ? This forum has hosted some excellent civilised discussions, for example on hunting or now on shock collars. Surely that is why we are here ?

mosi

Thread started in greyhound forum

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056530136

star-pants

[ModHat]Just a note on legalities / libel - the A&PI forum is watched by a lot of people, so things are noticed much more quickly here than in some other forums where discussions may not be so frequent or promenant. This is why we have to be strict, this is where most of the discussions happen and where most of the outsiders look.
Should someone find a thread elsewhere on Boards.ie that they have issue with (regarding libel etc.) they will be sure to let us know and it will be actioned in that forum also.
It's that simple, trust me, we don't like having a list as long as your arm of 'things you can't say' but we don't generally have a choice. It's not an easy position for us mods either, but we do try to let discussions happen. This is why we make warnings etc. to prevent something being said that results in the thread being closed. It also doesn't help when posters make things difficult by arguing with us or continuing to post in a disruptive manner.
That's my 2c on things and I'm only voicing for myself there.
I also do not wish to drag this particular thread further off topic so if anyone wants, they can PM me, but lets move on within this thread.

Hellrazer

Discodog wrote: »

Most of the posters on API have personal agendas so does everyone on Boards.

Agreed but not everyones personal agenda affects the running of a forum or libeling a company or individual.

So we can discuss the Industry but not criticise ?

I never said that.I said feel free to discuss it in a civilised manner and we`ll let the discussion continue.However if the discussion turns into a libel fest / slagging fest we revert to the old rule.

This forum has hosted some excellent civilised discussions, for example on hunting or now on shock collars. Surely that is why we are here ?

While the discussion has been civilised for the majority,there are still some users that insist on breaking the rules and there are still some users that wont report posts.

Now back on topic.

Vel

I saw a discussion of Facebook about the greyhound issue and a well known Clare rescue said those figures can't be accurate in relation to Clare as they have taken a number of greyhounds for the Clare Warden as have other rescues.

It was also stated that once the dog is surrendered in the owner can declare if they want the dog to have a chance of being rehomed or not, and if they choose not to then the Warden has no choice but to put to sleep. I wonder if this is the case or whther it could be argued that once the dog is signed over to the pound, then why should the owner dictate what happens to it. I wonder where the law stands on this issue.

Who complied those greyhound figures? Were they all tattooed or could some lurchers have been included as greyhounds?

planetX

Vel wrote: »

I saw a discussion of Facebook about the greyhound issue and a well known Clare rescue said those figures can't be accurate in relation to Clare as they have taken a number of greyhounds for the Clare Warden as have other rescues.

It was also stated that once the dog is surrendered in the owner can declare if they want the dog to have a chance of being rehomed or not, and if they choose not to then the Warden has no choice but to put to sleep. I wonder if this is the case or whther it could be argued that once the dog is signed over to the pound, then why should the owner dictate what happens to it. I wonder where the law stands on this issue.

Who complied those greyhound figures? Were they all tattooed or could some lurchers have been included as greyhounds?

I don't understand this, is it cheaper to surrender than taking your dog to the vet and having it put down yourself - why should the pounds provide subsidized destruction?

Zapperzy

planetX wrote: »

I don't understand this, is it cheaper to surrender than taking your dog to the vet and having it put down yourself - why should the pounds provide subsidized destruction?

So our licence fee is being used to subsidize euthanasia for people who are too cheap to pay for a vet to do it, lovely. :mad: Would rather see it being used for subsidized microchipping or neutering tbh.

Vel

Pretty much the case it would seem.

A particular rescue once stated that on a particular day every week, the greyhound men line up outside South Tipp pound with their greyhounds to be put to sleep.

This topic came up last year on another forum I view and someone rang the environmental section in Clonmel Co Co and she was told that she could go into the County Hall, pay €30 and would receive a Voucher/ticket to bring to Kilsheelan Pound and the Greyhound wouldl be pts and disposed of and she also offered her the dog wardens number

Discodog

Vel wrote: »

I saw a discussion of Facebook about the greyhound issue and a well known Clare rescue said those figures can't be accurate in relation to Clare as they have taken a number of greyhounds for the Clare Warden as have other rescues.

It was also stated that once the dog is surrendered in the owner can declare if they want the dog to have a chance of being rehomed or not, and if they choose not to then the Warden has no choice but to put to sleep. I wonder if this is the case or whther it could be argued that once the dog is signed over to the pound, then why should the owner dictate what happens to it. I wonder where the law stands on this issue.

Who complied those greyhound figures? Were they all tattooed or could some lurchers have been included as greyhounds?

Because Clare is run by the ISPCA on behalf of the LA it is regarded as a Private Pound so it is not covered by some of the legislation that governs LA Pounds. I too have heard of Greyhounds being rehomed from there. I have emailed the ISPCA for some clarification especially given the strange anomalies between 2009 & 2010. I have also contacted the DoE for clarification on the expenditure issue.

I have been told that to qualify for the Greyhound stats they have to be tatooed dogs but again I am seeking clarification on this.

In general a Pound Keeper has total discretion over what happens to the animals in his "care". He can even sell them.

Given the recent bad publicity regarding "worthless mongrels" I cannot imagine that the ISPCA would want to paint the picture as even worse than it really is. So if they have rehomed any Greyhounds their PTS rate shouldn't be the 100% that is published.

Clare is not the only anomaly in the figures & I am trying to get together full list for the DoE. It is ridiculous to have mandatory reporting & then have a huge anomaly in one of the first Pounds on the list.

Discodog

Zapperzy wrote: »

So our licence fee is being used to subsidize euthanasia for people who are too cheap to pay for a vet to do it, lovely. :mad: Would rather see it being used for subsidized microchipping or neutering tbh.

If the LA expenditure figures are correct then it would make more sense to give the money to rescues & let them rehome the dogs. The total expenditure figure is €5,223,000. One problem is that, in general, rescues do not want to become Pounds because you will always end up killing some dogs. Also being a Dog warden is not a pleasant job for an animal lover.

The ISPCA have said that they decided to run Pounds because they believe that they could do so in a more humane manner. The ISPCA operate 7 Pounds & they killed a total of 1491 Pound dogs in 2010.

The problem is made worse because the law regarding Pounds & Wardens is all about "controlling dogs". It has nothing to do with welfare.

angelfire9

Ok I know NOTHING about greyhounds so I'm not going to even attempt to get involved in that issue
BUT
I am from Clare
And I do know something about the Clare animal situation
The pound stats from Clare make no sense to me either

Frankie Coote is the local ISPCA warden and I think he does great work along with Sam Cleary who works in the pound
They have a weekly slot on Clare FM where they highlight animals that have been found and owners sought, animals that were stolen and are being looked for, and animals that require new homes
They have a facebook page that is updated regularly (more than once or twice a day most days)
They have had animals surrendered to them that they have rehomed, there have been a few since Christmas that I know of from the facebook page and they have an open evening (for rehoming) every Wednesday on top of that

I don't know what more that they can do to be honest
They used to work with local rescues to try and give dogs the best chance of survival but I know Clare Animal Rescue has run out of money so I don't think they are taking any animals at the moment
There is a new rescue started up in Shannon which is taking alot of the pressure off Frankie for the Shannon area which has always been problematic with regard to stray dogs
But Clare is a big geographical area and in the countryside dogs are dumped and new litters are looking for homes all the time, there is only so much 1 man can do unfortunately

I will post a link to this thread on their FB page to see if they can comment

(NOTE I am not in any way affiliated to or associated with the ISPCA or the local warden or the local pound)

Discodog

Well some aspects of the figures do make sense. Clearly either the LA are not paying enough or the ISPCA underestimated when then tendered for the contract. Clare spent €141,351 but only took in €43,183 in income so there is a huge deficit. The fact that the Warden only issued 20 on the spot fines & didn't prosecute anyone may be part of the income shortfall as their are only 3250 licenses registered in Clare.

They took in 1160 dogs. 615 were rehomed or claimed & 547 were killed. This kill rate of 47% would be bad for an LA Pound but it is horrendous when you consider what the ISPCA are supposed to represent.

I agree that the figures seem not to make sense but, as the ISPCA run the Pound, they must of been the ones who submitted them.

I can confirm that the Income figures are from Licenses & on the spot fines. The Expenditures figures are the amount payed out by the local authorities to cover Dog Control. So with a LA Pound this would be the Pound cost, warden wages etc. For a Private Pound like Clare it would include a payment to the ISPCA.