New Dog Pound Statistics

angelfire9

Discodog wrote: »

Well some aspects of the figures do make sense. Clearly either the LA are not paying enough or the ISPCA underestimated when then tendered for the contract. Clare spent €141,351 but only took in €43,183 in income so there is a huge deficit. The fact that the Warden only issued 20 on the spot fines & didn't prosecute anyone may be part of the income shortfall as their are only 3250 licenses registered in Clare.

They took in 1160 dogs. 615 were rehomed or claimed & 547 were killed. This kill rate of 47% would be bad for an LA Pound but it is horrendous when you consider what the ISPCA are supposed to represent.

I agree that the figures seem not to make sense but, as the ISPCA run the Pound, they must of been the ones who submitted them.

I can confirm that the Income figures are from Licenses & on the spot fines. The Expenditures figures are the amount payed out by the local authorities to cover Dog Control. So with a LA Pound this would be the Pound cost, warden wages etc. For a Private Pound like Clare it would include a payment to the ISPCA.

The ISPCA have had the pound in Ennis for as long as I can remember certainly 20+ years would the contract not be renegotiated every few years? Surely they know how much it costs by now???
Or is it possible that they are getting the same payment from clare co.co. now as when they started??

Cherry Blossom

angelfire9 wrote: »

I will post a link to this thread on their FB page to see if they can comment

Just a quick note here:

This is exactly the reason why discussion on the activities of specific animal welfare organisations is banned here. Posters have no idea how many threats of legal action are made against boards because of threads brought to the attention of these organisations.

Please note it is only the reference to greyhounds that has been removed from the charter, this part is still there:

No recommendations, links to, or discussion of the activities of individual rescues. - By PM only.

Rabbitandcavy

Back when I was in school, we had Frankie come in to do a talk, and he told us that the owners come in with greyhounds and make them sign like a contract or something that they will put the dog down, and not re home it. So the dog is pts straight away. He said it's because the owners are afraid that someone will take the dog out of the pound, train it up and win with it. :mad:

Discodog

angelfire9 wrote: »

Or is it possible that they are getting the same payment from clare co.co. now as when they started??

Pound Contracts normally come up for tender every few years & usually there are few bidders. The average income across the 34 Pounds is €73,000 so Clare is almost half the average. If you, as a private organisation, bid for a Pound contract you have to assess what income you will generate in addition to the initial payment. This money comes from fines & license enforcement.

In reality €43,000 is barely going to pay for a man + van. It is up to the bidder to ensure that their bid is high enough to cover all their costs & make a profit.

I can see nothing that forces a Pound keeper to kill a dog. Once the dog is signed over then it for the Keeper to decide it's fate.

Hellrazer

Discodog wrote: »

It is up to the bidder to ensure that their bid is high enough to cover all their costs & make a profit.

I can see nothing that forces a Pound keeper to kill a dog. Once the dog is signed over then it for the Keeper to decide it's fate.

Heres my take on it.

If its up to the Pound keeper then by all means there is every reason to kill a dog.

Its obviously cheaper to kill than it is to feed,house,advertise for rehoming,vets fees etc than it is for a simple injection.

And thats probably what most of these kill statistics come down to ie the financial incentive for either the state or the private pound.

Its a disgrace if financial is the only incentive to either kill or rehome.

Discodog

Generally speaking the Pounds with the lowest kill rates tend to work closely with rescues. A Pound can never be like a rescue because it can never turn away a dog on the grounds that it is full. So if a load of dogs come in one day others will be killed to make room. Which makes it even stranger why an animal cruelty organisation would want to get involved in running a Pound - it can only ever bring bad publicity.

Also imagine being one guy & having to travel all over the County collecting dogs - you will have little time for rescue work. One of my local wardens described his job as collect & kill.

Maybe sometimes it's better to not offer a price to tender & force the LA to run the pound themselves for a few years. The publication of the LA's expenditure means that you would be able to see how much they spent & then tender at a lower price but still high enough to be able to do the job.

Personally I think that the ISPCA should focus on what it was formed to do - prevent cruelty to animals. There is no point in it running Pounds unless it can do so with a lower killing rate than the LA Pounds & the clear evidence is that it can't.

It is for the IGB to explain why, despite all its claims regarding Greyhound Welfare, 672 ended up being surrendered to Pounds.

Hellrazer

Discodog wrote: »

It is for the IGB to explain why, despite all its claims regarding Greyhound Welfare, 672 ended up being surrendered to Pounds.

The total greyhounds figures for seizures represents only about 4.2% of the total dogs seized but 13% of all dogs killed and thats scary.Is it just that greyhounds are harder to rehome??

A 4% seizure rate in total is quite low but the 13% kill rate out of every dog seized is really worrying and that really needs answering.

Any other statistics that break down by breed?Id like to see a breakdown of the supposed restricted breeds and see how they compare.

ISDW

Hellrazer wrote: »

The total greyhounds figures for seizures represents only about 4.2% of the total dogs seized but 13% of all dogs killed and thats scary.Is it just that greyhounds are harder to rehome??

A 4% seizure rate in total is quite low but the 13% kill rate out of every dog seized is really worrying and that really needs answering.

Any other statistics that break down by breed?Id like to see a breakdown of the supposed restricted breeds and see how they compare.

Thats a very good point, there are a number of pounds that won't allow RBs out to be rehomed if not reclaimed.:(

Discodog

Hellrazer wrote: »

Is it just that greyhounds are harder to rehome?

Yes very. People just have a totally wrong idea about them. You will often find that people are either indifferent about them or passionate. I was the former until I ended up with one by pure chance & most owners new to the breed will tell you the same.

Some friends of mine wanted a dog but they were adamant that they didn't want a Greyhound till they met mine. When she is on your lap with her head on your shoulder she is very hard not to like. They are often perceived as hunting dogs - racing dogs are often muzzled when being walked. They are also seen as being highly strung yet they are the most chilled breed on the planet & very intelligent. People imagine that they need loads of exercise when they are total lounge potatoes.

At the end of the day it is about awareness. It can still be quite unusual to see a Greyhound as a pet & that is why wonderful people like our Vel run events to show people what the dogs are really like.

If a small welfare tax was added to all Greyhound betting & given to the rescues, there wouldn't be a welfare problem.

planetX

+1 to the above
they seem to be viewed by most people as an agricultural product rather than a pet dog. Add to this that the racing discards have usually not ever lived in a house, and can have issues with fear, they don't have much hope of being chosen in a pound. Anyone I know who has done so has turned into a huge fan of the breed.
I'm another accidental hound owner - only half a hound:), but it's been an eye opener for me because I would never have chosen him. It's made me notice how few hounds (none) I ever see in popular walking places, and I've had the odd dirty look and people taking a wide berth - I would've done the same once Now I sometimes wish my dog was full greyhound - I blame all the bad behaviour on the other half....

Discodog

planetX wrote: »

they seem to be viewed by most people as an agricultural product rather than a pet dog.

Given that Greyhounds are biologically identical to other breeds it just feels wrong to treat them so differently. To be killing 100% of any breed is simply not acceptable. It makes it even worse that these dogs are being bred for "sport" & that the governing body claims to be committed to welfare.

A normal dog owner takes on a responsibility & commitment for the life of the dog. Why should Greyhound owners & working dog owners be any different ?

Gareth2011

planetX wrote: »

+1 to the above
they seem to be viewed by most people as an agricultural product rather than a pet dog. Add to this that the racing discards have usually not ever lived in a house, and can have issues with fear, they don't have much hope of being chosen in a pound. Anyone I know who has done so has turned into a huge fan of the breed.
I'm another accidental hound owner - only half a hound:), but it's been an eye opener for me because I would never have chosen him. It's made me notice how few hounds (none) I ever see in popular walking places, and I've had the odd dirty look and people taking a wide berth - I would've done the same once Now I sometimes wish my dog was full greyhound - I blame all the bad behaviour on the other half....

I agree. Myself and the wife got a saluki (our first dog) and we also took his pal who was a mongrel as they had been together for ages with the mayo spca but it took the good part of 3 years to get the saluki to trust us fully. He was found by the spca laying beside his dead brother on the main rd in mayo and they think he was used by someone for non-pet purposes cause he was so nervous. We now have 2 lurchers too and I can honestly say we wouldn't get any other breed of dog except hounds. They make very cute fantastic pets and are so loyal and lovable.

Discodog

In looking at the figures Clare is bad but it isn't the worse.

These are the percentages of incoming dogs that were killed in ISPCA Pounds during 2010.

Roscommon 76%
Kildare 72%
Laois 48%
Clare 46%
Kilkenny 45%
Carlow 37%
Offaly 25%

angelfire9

Discodog wrote: »

In looking at the figures Clare is bad but it isn't the worse.

These are the percentages of incoming dogs that were killed in ISPCA Pounds during 2010.

Roscommon 76%
Kildare 72%
Laois 48%
Clare 46%
Kilkenny 45%
Carlow 37%
Offaly 25%

All with the possible exception of Kilkenny would have a mainly rural population is that a coincidence?
Then again the same could be said of the likes of Galway, Mayo and Donegal and there stats are much better
It's very strange!

ISDW

angelfire9 wrote: »

All with the possible exception of Kilkenny would have a mainly rural population is that a coincidence?
Then again the same could be said of the likes of Galway, Mayo and Donegal and there stats are much better
It's very strange!

And Leitrim of course, who have fantastic rehoming figures and work really hard at not putting dogs to sleep.

Discodog

There is one obvious & worrying difference between Pounds run by the ISPCA & the other Pounds.

The average income per Pound for the other Pounds is €79K whereas the average across the 7 ISPCA Pounds is only €46K. Obviously of you haven't got the money then any rehoming is going to be limited. It also suggests that the ISPCA are very poor at negotiating with the LA's.

Also the average number of Fines paid to ISPCA Pounds is 25 in 2010 whereas the average across the other Pounds is 73.

The infuriating thing is that some Pounds prove that it is possible to significant reduce death rates often by working closely with local rescues. If some can do it then they all could.

Gareth2011

That is true there are some rescue's/individuals who travle around or go to the same few pounds almost every week so save animals about to be pts. I know a girl who deals mainly with german shepards and last I heard she had about 30 of them from going around to the pounds she was full to the brim literally. Id love to do it but we have already suffered with neighbours over dogs we had here before and current. I hate seening a healthy animal pts but it equally bugs the sh*t out of me that people still think its ok to buy a puppy cause they want to raise the animal how they want, they don't want any bad habits :mad:

Discodog

I have just received some clarification from the DoE. The totals in the Strays table do not include the Greyhound figures so you have to add the Greyhound totals to get a final figure as to how many dogs are killed.

Animals

Hi there, I sent an email to the department of the environment 2 wks ago to get clarification as to whether the pts figures included greyhounds and still have not received a reply. Would you think this is still how they record the figures, total put to sleep figures are strays plus greyhounds? many thanks

Toulouse

As far as I am aware they don't include greyhounds, they are done on a separate sheet.

Here's the link to the stats http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/DogControl/ they're just on the right-hand side there and there's a separate sheet for greyhounds beside the strays.

If you need any more clarification I suggest you get in contact with ANVIL http://www.anvilireland.ie/

Animals

Many Toulouse, I sent them an email two weeks ago but have not received a reply yet, so I was hoping a couple of people might clarify it. M

Animals

Sorry Toulouse that meant to say many thanks, also I will send Anvil an email if I do not hear from the Dept Of The Environ today, M