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No proof of payment?

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  • 23-01-2012 5:20am
    #1
    War Machine 539
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭


    I have a small question, my landlord has not signed my rent book since I moved in 10 months ago. I usually pay him cash whenever he knocks in but I never receive receipts, is there any actual proof of me paying him apart from his word? I need to leave and I am worried he may accuse me of not paying, any suggestions? Is he just trying to stay under the radar? Thanks in advance!


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    #2
    housetypeb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    Did you sign a lease when you moved in?
    Did you receive a letter from the PRTB?
    Are any of the bills-esb,gas etc-in your name?


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    #3
    War Machine 539
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭War Machine 539


    I have signed a lease, but I have not received a letter from the PRTB, a UPC bill is in my name nothing else!


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    #4
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    War Machine 539 wrote: »
    I have signed a lease, but I have not received a letter from the PRTB, a UPC bill is in my name nothing else!

    Check your lease. The majority state that the lease acts as the rent book, gives all the info that a rent book requires and also states how and when the rent is to be paid.


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    #5
    War Machine 539
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭War Machine 539


    But does he have proof I have or have not payed him? I have no proof I have, no receipts, nada!


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    #6
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    War Machine 539 wrote: »
    But does he have proof I have or have not payed him? I have no proof I have, no receipts, nada!

    That is his problem not yours - you need proof that you paid.

    If your lease states that you pay cash on the last day of the month, then, IMHO opinion the law will consider that you have paid, unless the landlord can prove otherwise and if he has not paper trail, he will have great difficulty.

    However, it is always advisable to get a receipt when paying cash and that the receipt states what the cash was for. It avoids doubt.
    I need to leave and I am worried he may accuse me of not paying, any suggestions? Is he just trying to stay under the radar?
    It is always difficult to proffer correct advice without all the details - you have only said that you signed a lease - but which type.
    If you have a Fixed Term lease, you cannot just give notice and leave before the end of the term - the landlord is entitled to keep your deposit. There is a way out, but with just two months remaining, I doubt if you will find someone to take over your lease (by assignment).
    If you have no written lease then you probably have Part 4 lease and you can leave provided you give the correct amount of notice which depends on the time you have been in the property. All "Notices of Termination", to be legal, must be written and be in the correct format - sample with notes on the PRTB site.


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    #7
    housetypeb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    War Machine 539 wrote: »
    But does he have proof I have or have not payed him? I have no proof I have, no receipts, nada!

    Why are you so worried that he will claim that you never paid him? You should possibly worry more about him holding on to your deposit if you break your lease by leaving early.
    The fact that you have not received a letter from the PRTB and pay cash while the gas and esb bills are in the landlords name would SEEM to suggest that the landlord is keeping a very low tax profile indeed,you might be able to use this to your advantage.
    You can still claim your tax credit for renting even if it turns out that your landlord is not tax compliant.


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    #8
    War Machine 539
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭War Machine 539


    Its a years lease, I am not arsed digging it out at the minute! Its buried somewhere! Thanks for the advice thus far, its been very helpful!

    Since I posted I have had several run ins with the landlord with regard to power tokens. Anyway, one of these run ins ended up with me being called a pr1ck and shouted at when I was left waiting around for 2 and a half hours and then was told I would have to go to a house down the road to get them. I then had to wait another hour for the guy to answer his door. Without power.
    I explained the next day that I have a problem with this, I am unemployed, however I have things to do, family commitments etc, to which he replied '' Are you joking, your not working, what do you have to do?'' More shouting ensued, again being told I was a pr1ck. I received an apology, but this is not the sort of relationship I wish to continue. I owe arrears however this guy is claiming a massive amount to which I am certain is not correct.


    I need to leave, however, I am not willing to pay him anything until he can prove the amount he is claiming which he can't. I have paid him cash so many times, and never received a receipt or my rent book signed.
    Does he have any proof whatsoever? He has threatened to report me to Social Welfare but again, I can't see any proof I have or for that matter have not paid.

    Any advice is appreciated!


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    #9
    Rasmus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Rasmus


    On a side note, does each new lease require registration with the PRTB? After that, should a tenant receive confirmation by post from the PRTB?


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    #10
    War Machine 539
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭War Machine 539


    Rasmus wrote: »
    On a side note, does each new lease require registration with the PRTB? After that, should a tenant receive confirmation by post from the PRTB?

    To be honest not a clue! This is my first time renting! I have not received anything in any case!


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    #11
    J-blk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭J-blk


    Rasmus wrote: »
    On a side note, does each new lease require registration with the PRTB? After that, should a tenant receive confirmation by post from the PRTB?

    No, only a tenant change would require a new PRTB registration. If you stay in the same place for > 1 year and sign a subsequent lease for year 2 (which is not always the case anyway), then there is no need to re-register with the PTRB. If you moved out and the landlord got someone new in, then a new registration would be needed.


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    #12
    Rasmus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Rasmus


    This part of the PRTB site is good for finding out if the property is registered: https://www.prtb.ie/public_registrations.aspx


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    #13
    J-blk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭J-blk


    Rasmus wrote: »
    So is it the tenant or the landlord that needs to register?

    The landlord has to register the tenant (and pay the fee). Usually at the beginning of a tenancy, the tenant is given the forms to fill out and returns them to the landlord who then sends them on to the PRTB with the fee.

    You should indeed get a confirmation letter from the PRTB for each tenant on the lease (e.g both myself and my wife get separate letters) though be aware that it can take ages. I once only got them about 3-4 months into the tenancy.


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    #14
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    War Machine 539 wrote: »
    Its a years lease, I am not arsed digging it out at the minute! Its buried somewhere! Thanks for the advice thus far, its been very helpful!
    If you got your lease, you may well find that it has a clause (Probably on the very first page) that says how and when you pay your rent. If you have kept to the terms of the lease there should be no problem. If you have not paid the rent in full and on time then you are in breach of the terms of the lease.
    I need to leave, however, I am not willing to pay him anything until he can prove the amount he is claiming which he can't. I have paid him cash so many times, and never received a receipt or my rent book signed.
    This sounds to me - though I may be wrong - that you have not paid your rent in full and on time, as specified in your lease and are therefore in breach of your lease.
    Does he have any proof whatsoever? He has threatened to report me to Social Welfare but again, I can't see any proof I have or for that matter have not paid.
    Probably not, unless he has issued you with a Rent Arrears Notice. Therefore the terms of the lease stand - that you have paid in full and on time. But then, as you said you're not too bothered about finding out.
    Any advice is appreciated!
    Unless you can "dig out" your lease, I wouldn't be arsed to try to offer any further advice.


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    #15
    War Machine 539
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭War Machine 539


    odds_on wrote: »
    Unless you can "dig out" your lease, I wouldn't be arsed to try to offer any further advice.

    No need to be smart. I was very polite and the one thing you focused on was that?

    Nonetheless I understand you can't give good advice without all the facts! Thanks anyway! :)


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    #16
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    War Machine 539 wrote: »
    Its a years lease, I am not arsed digging it out at the minute! Its buried somewhere! Thanks for the advice thus far, its been very helpful!

    You have no idea how much I had to refrain myself from making much more of your response to my reply.

    I give replies willingly and try to help posters with problems in renting. This takes some thought and time, re-reading and re-phrasing and is not just a quick bash at the keyboard. As you will notice from my replies, I believe that most of your situation can be resolved by finding your lease. Thus, to get a reply like that did not go well with me - my first thought and impression was - I am wasting my time here.

    However, noting your post in the Legal Discussion board, I feel that you are not providing all the details of your situation.
    the landlord is claiming vast amounts of arrears

    Either this is exaggerated or the landlord has not been keeping things up-to-date and in hand. Otherwise, he was trying to help out his poor tenant by accepting the rent on the drip feed.
    Apart from not obtaining a receipt, do you have any record of your own as to when and how much you paid the landlord?
    Did you pay the complete SW allowance to the landlord every month or was it necessary, on occasions, to give the landlord less than you received from SW? Hence the confusion?

    If you were in arrears and I was your landlord, I would have issued a Rent Arrears notice within a few days of the rent being late.
    If the landlord has been lazy, then I have no pity for him.


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    #17
    War Machine 539
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭War Machine 539


    odds_on wrote: »
    You have no idea how much I had to refrain myself from making much more of your response to my reply.

    Well your advice is not an obligation. If you have a problem with my turn of phrase there are plenty of other threads you can offer advice on! :)

    Thanks for all advice, had a chat with the Landlord today, there was some confusion on his end but all has been sorted out.

    Thanks for the mostly polite and informative responses!


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