Team America - World Police

Pissmire

Freddie59 wrote: »

Yeah, that Iranian dictatorship really condones a free and open society - like in the West? Give me a fcuking break. Yes the Yanks were (and are) paranoid. No two ways about it. But to compare that thug Ahmedinejad's regime to them is laughable really.

Iran, a lot more democratic than America's friend, Saudi Arabia. Iran has 20,000+ jews, freedom to live without harassment worship is guaranteed. Sounds more humane to me than SA. Yeah, SA can do what it likes, including putting its troops into a neighbouring sovereign state to crush a pro-democracy protest. USA says fúck all when it suits. Better to be a jew in Iran than a Palestinian in Israel. US condemns vote rigging in Iran but it's ok in Florida. I love America but just wish all this shít would stop.

ch750536

Overheal wrote: »

What would any of you do, with regard to the situation in The DPRK?

You mean the situation where they have nukes but they havent used them yet? I'd keep provoking them and threatening them till they did.

Overheal

Nodin wrote: »

....the US has stopped abuses in North Korea?

Nope, but I'm asking the kangaroo court of internet opinion what they think should happen.

Nothingbetter2d

yeah team america got it soooooooooooo right with iraq and its wmd program :rolleyes:

Nodin

Overheal wrote: »

Nope, but I'm asking the kangaroo court of internet opinion what they think should happen.

Sanctions, much like what's going on now....I'm not seeing much difference here, tbh. You'd have been better off picking Afghanistan as an example, where its in theory a UN backed mission, but in reality the bulk of the forces are American.

Overheal

Nodin wrote: »

Sanctions, much like what's going on now....I'm not seeing much difference here, tbh. You'd have been better off picking Afghanistan as an example, where its in theory a UN backed mission, but in reality the bulk of the forces are American.

I might have if I was trying to make the argument that the US should be intervening more but I wasn't. In reality I'm just curious if the world would really take it upon itself to carry out interventions that weren't spearheaded by the US. People say they want the US to fcuk off and I'm not inclined to disagree. I'm just asking great now we've fcuked off, so whats next for you? I for one encourage the UN to pull it's own weight but that's just me. Maybe China would have liked to be the one to intervene in Libya, hell I don't know. Did anybody ever ask them? Let's say Iran in 6 months says fcuk these people and starts mowing down their citizens for X Y Z reason, does the UN just impose sanctions and finger wags? As someone else asked what might have happened to the world if other countries had bothered to interfere with the German agenda sooner?

Mr Benevolent

Overheal wrote: »

Let's say Iran in 6 months says fcuk these people and starts mowing down their citizens for X Y Z reason, does the UN just impose sanctions and finger wags?

The UN and US did that in Rwanda.

Nodin

Well there's a limit to what the UN can do in any instance because of UNSC vetos, NK and Israel being prime examples.

Overheal

Confab wrote: »

The UN and US did that in Rwanda.

How'd that work out?

RichieC

Overheal wrote: »

How'd that work out?

Not great.

Capt'n Midnight

RichieC wrote: »

actually the problem was they didn't say the same thing about Hitler, it took hitlers army mobilising for anyone to do anything about it. Hitler had fair backing in the US prior to that. their support could have gone either way.

not just mobilising,
they occupied the Saar region
Austria
parts of Lithunia (Memel)
Czechoslovakia

Overheal

RichieC wrote: »

Not great.

Indeed.

I'm not happy that the US intervenes as much as it does, but in general what I see happen is people criticize the US for going in when it suits them (they do) and not when it's "The right thing to do". But on the flipside of that, who else is doing the right thing? The US doesn't go in to Rwanda, does that stop someone else from rolling up their sleeves? I am all for steep cuts to extraordinary military spending in the US, and I am all for someone else stepping up to do anything that resembles 'intervention' but it's not happening. It makes me wonder if the reason the US looks like the World Police is because nobody else is bothered to follow suit.

Of course if it were up to me I'd take a non-intervention approach and see if anyone else decides to replace the US. In the back of my mind though I doubt anyone else will bother. Again, nothing to stop the Dutch or the Canadians from heading into Africa to go topple regimes. I'm not saying that to justify the US's international presence, just making the observation that the world would probably be no better or worse off, save for probably slightly more stable oil trade.

KeithAFC

Overheal wrote: »

Indeed.

I'm not happy that the US intervenes as much as it does, but in general what I see happen is people criticize the US for going in when it suits them (they do) and not when it's "The right thing to do". But on the flipside of that, who else is doing the right thing? The US doesn't go in to Rwanda, does that stop someone else from rolling up their sleeves? I am all for steep cuts to extraordinary military spending in the US, and I am all for someone else stepping up to do anything that resembles 'intervention' but it's not happening. It makes me wonder if the reason the US looks like the World Police is because nobody else is bothered to follow suit.

Of course if it were up to me I'd take a non-intervention approach and see if anyone else decides to replace the US. In the back of my mind though I doubt anyone else will bother. Again, nothing to stop the Dutch or the Canadians from heading into Africa to go topple regimes. I'm not saying that to justify the US's international presence, just making the observation that the world would probably be no better or worse off, save for probably slightly more stable oil trade.

The US Empire relies on interfering in other countries business. If they stopped policing the world, the country would cease to exist as that is its main purpose. An experiment which has failed.

marcsignal

Go Tobban wrote: »

Israel have nukes don't they?

They certainly do, and what's more, they were developed in secret. They have never signed a non-proliferation treaty either.
Their development of Nuclear weapons broke all of the rules that Iran is accused of breaking today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hht1YjQphhs

Freddie59

marcsignal wrote: »

They certainly do, and what's more, they were developed in secret. They have never signed a non-proliferation treaty either.
Their development of Nuclear weapons broke all of the rules that Iran is accused of breaking today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hht1YjQphhs

Israel won't point them at the West. Or fund Al Qaeda et al.

Freddie59

KeithAFC wrote: »

The US Empire relies on interfering in other countries business. If they stopped policing the world, the country would cease to exist as that is its main purpose. An experiment which has failed.

:DSweet Jesus. This from the British "Empire" fan club!!! WTF??!! THE biggest genocide merchants of all.

Freddie59

Pissmire wrote: »

Iran, a lot more democratic than America's friend, Saudi Arabia. Iran has 20,000+ jews, freedom to live without harassment worship is guaranteed. Sounds more humane to me than SA. Yeah, SA can do what it likes, including putting its troops into a neighbouring sovereign state to crush a pro-democracy protest. USA says fúck all when it suits. Better to be a jew in Iran than a Palestinian in Israel. US condemns vote rigging in Iran but it's ok in Florida. I love America but just wish all this shít would stop.

Yeah, Iran. That bastion of democracy and freedom. GTFO!!!

Let's see - live in America or Iran. As they say, a no-brainer.

Freddie59

Confab wrote: »

The UN and US did that in Rwanda.

The UN is impotent. If the USA went in they'd be accused or "warmongering":rolleyes:. Can't win really.

Bannasidhe

Freddie59 wrote: »

Yeah, Iran. That bastion of democracy and freedom. GTFO!!!

Let's see - live in America or Iran. As they say, a no-brainer.

Um - when exactly did it become an either/or choice?
Did anyone else get that memo?

Freddie59

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Um - when exactly did it become an either/or choice?
Did anyone else get that memo?

Hypothetically speaking?:rolleyes: Be careful what you wish for. When I see the word "humane" posted in relation to that scumbag Government it truly sickens me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl-siCu_qkI

Yes, a totally democratic country.:mad:

alphanine

Freddie59 wrote: »

Yep. You're right. But, heck, the world would be a far darker place without them. No two ways about it.

Thats what I can't understand, the anti-US cretins would rather the US just f off and let the subversive China/Russia take over as super powers. The world indeed would be a worse place. Luckily the anti-US brigade here on boards make absolutely no difference to world affairs!!! What a pathetic bunch of people.

Temptamperu

alphanine wrote: »

Thats what I can't understand, the anti-US cretins would rather the US just f off and let the subversive China/Russia take over as super powers. The world indeed would be a worse place. Luckily the anti-US brigade here on boards make absolutely no difference to world affairs!!! What a pathetic bunch of people.

China and russia already are superpowers. I just wish everyone would just stay at home and mind there own P's and q's

af_thefragile

From what i make out of it Iran doesn't want a nuclear weapon but wants nuclear technology and yes its true that its not because Iran just wants a coupleof reactors to power the country but it wants it to protect its soverginity.

Iran is clearly the fastest developing nation (scientific/technologically and militarilly) in the region. It wants to hold a strong stake in the region and doesn't want to be a country which can be pushed aroung by US interests like the rest of the middle eastern countries are. Iran wants nuclear technology as an insurance against US or Israel launching an attack/invasion against it like what happened to neighbours (Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan).

Iran is no more likely to launch a nuke at Israel than US or Israel is at launching a nuke against Iran.

Also the only thing thats keeping US forces from launching a full blown invasion into Pakistan like as in Afghanistan is the fact that Pakistan is a nuclear power.

Hence whats playing out here is a new Cold War.

And yes I dont believe Iran is ruled by nutters. If anything its Israel which is rulled by even greater nutters. There's a lot ofpropaganda against Iranrightnow. Its not a perfect country but it is much better than how it is portrayed in the news media. It has a rich culture and has made huge technological advances over the past few years. It might look like a conservative Islamic state but when it comes to science and technology its extremely liberal.

People just don't like its "Islamic" facade of Iran because its no longer western and secular since the Shah was thrown out and them Islamic Guys are evil!!!

Bannasidhe

alphanine wrote: »

Thats what I can't understand, the anti-US cretins would rather the US just f off and let the subversive China/Russia take over as super powers. The world indeed would be a worse place. Luckily the anti-US brigade here on boards make absolutely no difference to world affairs!!! What a pathetic bunch of people.

So anyone who expresses criticism of the US is dismissed as a 'cretin' now. So much for freedom of speech :rolleyes:

marcsignal

Freddie59 wrote: »

Israel won't point them at the West.

Who the fcuk are you trying to kid ffs :rolleyes:?

If Israel had ANY real respect for the West, they wouldn't have tried successfully to hoodwink the weapons inspectors in the posted documentary. NOR would they have used forged Western passports to carry out assassinations in foreign countries.
Jesus Christ!! With 'friends' like the Israelies wtf needs enemies ??

Freddie59 wrote: »

Or fund Al Qaeda et al.

Well, no, opposing Terrorist organisations tend not to fund each other :pac:

Overheal

alphanine wrote: »

Luckily the anti-US brigade here on boards make absolutely no difference to world affairs!!! What a pathetic bunch of people.

I could report this but I thought it would be more effective to tell you to step off that horse. They are people that have opinions that I do not fully agree with. It doesn't make them pathetic. What's pathetic is attacking the poster and not the post. In fact its the lowest form of argument, even though Ad Hominem's are almost as big a pet peeve of mine. It's also right in line with "Anybody who disagrees with me is ghey".

Millicent

Freddie59 wrote: »

Israel won't point them at the West. Or fund Al Qaeda et al.

What, so it's only a cause for concern if it's aimed at the West, even if it could potentially kill and maim hundreds of thousands in the Middle East? Jesus, that's some attitude to have.

And on your second point, the West can't exactly claim the moral high ground.

Freddie59

Temptamperu wrote: »

China and russia already are masqerading as superpowers. I just wish everyone would just stay at home and mind there own P's and q's

There ya go. The Russians allowed their populace to starve so that they could be a 'superpower'. The Chinese are doing the exact same.

Freddie59

marcsignal wrote: »

Who the fcuk are you trying to kid ffs :rolleyes:?

If Israel had ANY real respect for the West, they wouldn't have tried successfully to hoodwink the weapons inspectors in the posted documentary. NOR would they have used forged Western passports to carry out assassinations in foreign countries.
Jesus Christ!! With 'friends' like the Israelies wtf needs enemies ??



Well, no, opposing Terrorist organisations tend not to fund each other :pac:

Sweet Jesus. Again, I would take the Israelis ahead of the scumbag Ahmedinejad and his bully boys.

Freddie59

Millicent wrote: »

What, so it's only a cause for concern if it's aimed at the West, even if it could potentially kill and maim hundreds of thousands in the Middle East? Jesus, that's some attitude to have.

And on your second point, the West can't exactly claim the moral high ground.

Look, history has taught us that bullyboy thugs like Hitler and Ahmedinejad (and the WW2 Japanese) didn't give a fiddlers about human life. Yep, the Yanks dropped the A-Bomb, but only to save millions of their own from the Japanese fanatics.

These modern-day fanatics see nukes as a weapon of aggression - not a deterrent as the West does. Do you honestly believe that Ahmedinejad and Co. would keep them under lock and key as the West does. If you do then you are extremely naive.

Freddie59

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So anyone who expresses criticism of the US is dismissed as a 'cretin' now. So much for freedom of speech :rolleyes:

Maybe a crude choice of words, but it never ceases to amaze me how so many posters here almost want to wish America away. Think of the toerag alternatives waiting in the wings. Be very careful what you wish for.

Capt'n Midnight

Freddie59 wrote: »

Look, history has taught us that bullyboy thugs like Hitler and Ahmedinejad (and the WW2 Japanese) didn't give a fiddlers about human life. Yep, the Yanks dropped the A-Bomb, but only to save millions of their own from the Japanese fanatics.

These modern-day fanatics see nukes as a weapon of aggression - not a deterrent as the West does. Do you honestly believe that Ahmedinejad and Co. would keep them under lock and key as the West does. If you do then you are extremely naive.

Since the end of world war one weapons of mass destruction have never been used against an opponent who could retaliate with them.

The A bomb didn't save millions of US lives. Japan was already starving, the Russians were blitzkrieging through China, and like the war in Europe it was more a matter of who would get there first.

Perhaps the A bomb saved people in Vietnam / Indonesia / parts of China but that probably wasn't top of the agenda.


As for defense, the Russians were afraid of SDI ./ Star Wars because it allowed the US to get off a first strike with less fear of retaliation.

Has Iran invaded anyone ?

Yes Iran has stirred up things outside it's boarders. But it was the CIA who trained Bin Laden & Co. back in the days when those "terrorists" were "Afghani freedom fighters"

Freddie59

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Has Iran invaded anyone ?

They haven't the balls to. But they like others to do it for them. As cowards and bully boys do.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Yes Iran has stirred up things outside it's boarders. But it was the CIA who trained Bin Laden & Co. back in the days when those "terrorists" were "Afghani freedom fighters"

Glad to see you acknowledge that. Yep, the Yanks aren't perfect. But the perfect choice when you consider the alternatives on offer.

Freddie59

af_thefragile wrote: »

And yes I dont believe Iran is ruled by nutters.

Of course its not.:rolleyes: If you leave out the subjugation of women, the stonings, the lashings, the severing in half of bodies, the hanging and torture of gays, adulterers, and generally anyone who disagrees with them and the rest they're actually quite sane, normal people. Hmm, where did we see that in the 20th Century?

af_thefragile wrote: »

People just don't like its "Islamic" facade of Iran because its no longer western and secular since the Shah was thrown out and them Islamic Guys are evil!!!

I refer you to the points above.

Nothingbetter2d

Freddie59 wrote: »

There ya go. The Russians allowed their populace to starve so that they could be a 'superpower'. The Chinese are doing the exact same.

lol judging by the size of the average american you definitely cannot apply the above statement to the USA

--Kaiser--

I don't agree with most of US foreign policy but I'm pretty glad they're hell bent on preventing the Lunatic Government of Iran from developing nuclear weapons

--Kaiser--

af_thefragile wrote: »

And yes I dont believe Iran is ruled by nutters

Let's refute that dumb and ignorant statement with some quotes from President Mahmoud Amedinejad

Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury.

The establishment of Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world.

The wave of the Islamic revolution will soon reach the entire world.

Some segments within the American government orchestrated the attack [9/11] to reverse the declining American economy, and its grips on the Middle East, in order to save the Zionist regim

They (the Western powers) launched the myth of the Holocaust. They lied, they put on a show and then they support the Jews

In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country ... In Iran we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who's told you that we have this

wes

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Let's refute that dumb and ignorant statement with some quotes from President Mahmoud Amedinejad

Terrible example as he has little real power. The Supreme Leader is the guy who runs the show, and not Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. You will find plenty of people in various world governments who say stupid crap.

Also, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad seems to have fallen out of favour with the Supreme Leader:
Ayatollah Khamenei, Iran Supreme Leader, Warns Ahmadinejad

Capt'n Midnight

Freddie59 wrote: »

They haven't the balls to. But they like others to do it for them. As cowards and bully boys do.

Glad to see you acknowledge that. Yep, the Yanks aren't perfect. But the perfect choice when you consider the alternatives on offer.

Alternatives like leaving democratically elected governments in place ?

Alternatives like not propping up dictatorships ?

Alternatives like not turning a blind eye to torture / Second Congo War / being buddies with China and critising countries with better human rights records ?

Since the end of WWII the US military has been involved in conflicts where upwards of 10 million on the other sides have died. This is orders of magnitude greater than the numbers terrorists have killed.


BTW
Has everyone forgotten Irangate ??

Attabear

Iranian El Presidente wrote: »

In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country ... In Iran we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who's told you that we have this

It was me!

What you gonna do about it?

Nothing! That's right.

Pimp away Iran. Pimp away.

RichieC

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Let's refute that dumb and ignorant statement with some quotes from President Mahmoud Amedinejad

I could cherry pick lunatic statements from US officials if I wished. some with more power than the Iranian president, the only difference being we aren't relying on biased translations.

dsmythy

af_thefragile wrote: »

From what i make out of it Iran doesn't want a nuclear weapon but wants nuclear technology and yes its true that its not because Iran just wants a coupleof reactors to power the country but it wants it to protect its soverginity.

Iran is clearly the fastest developing nation (scientific/technologically and militarilly) in the region. It wants to hold a strong stake in the region and doesn't want to be a country which can be pushed aroung by US interests like the rest of the middle eastern countries are. Iran wants nuclear technology as an insurance against US or Israel launching an attack/invasion against it like what happened to neighbours (Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan).

Iran is no more likely to launch a nuke at Israel than US or Israel is at launching a nuke against Iran.

Also the only thing thats keeping US forces from launching a full blown invasion into Pakistan like as in Afghanistan is the fact that Pakistan is a nuclear power.

Hence whats playing out here is a new Cold War.

And yes I dont believe Iran is ruled by nutters. If anything its Israel which is rulled by even greater nutters. There's a lot ofpropaganda against Iranrightnow. Its not a perfect country but it is much better than how it is portrayed in the news media. It has a rich culture and has made huge technological advances over the past few years. It might look like a conservative Islamic state but when it comes to science and technology its extremely liberal.

People just don't like its "Islamic" facade of Iran because its no longer western and secular since the Shah was thrown out and them Islamic Guys are evil!!!

By hold a stake in the region you mean Iran wants to be the interfering country themselves? Let's face it the US stops them doing that.

Temptamperu

Freddie59 wrote: »

There ya go. The Russians allowed their populace to starve so that they could be a 'superpower'. The Chinese are doing the exact same.

You seem to forget most americans are living under the breadline, most having to have 2 or 3 jobs. Such a wonderous Army they have amassed while they let anyone below the middle class rot.

Freddie59

Temptamperu wrote: »

You seem to forget most americans are living under the breadline, most having to have 2 or 3 jobs. Such a wonderous Army they have amassed while they let anyone below the middle class rot.

Not to the extent of those wonderful Chinese and Russians do. And let's not forget NK.

Freddie59

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

lol judging by the size of the average american you definitely cannot apply the above statement to the USA

Thankfully.:)

Freddie59

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Alternatives like leaving democratically elected governments in place ?

Alternatives like not propping up dictatorships ?

Alternatives like not turning a blind eye to torture / Second Congo War / being buddies with China and critising countries with better human rights records ?

Since the end of WWII the US military has been involved in conflicts where upwards of 10 million on the other sides have died. This is orders of magnitude greater than the numbers terrorists have killed.


BTW
Has everyone forgotten Irangate ??

No comment then on the subjugation of women, the stonings, the lashings, the severing in half of bodies, the hanging and torture of gays, adulterers, and generally anyone who disagrees with them? Thought not.

Overheal

Temptamperu wrote: »

You seem to forget most americans are living under the breadline, most having to have 2 or 3 jobs. Such a wonderous Army they have amassed while they let anyone below the middle class rot.

A very broad statement lacking in statistics. Unemployment averages around 10-12% afaik and while it's not uncommon for someone to hold 2 jobs, 3 jobs would be rare, and I doubt that majority of Americans who are employed have 2 jobs.

Temptamperu

Overheal wrote: »

A very broad statement lacking in statistics. Unemployment averages around 10-12% afaik and while it's not uncommon for someone to hold 2 jobs, 3 jobs would be rare, and I doubt that majority of Americans who are employed have 2 jobs.

The wages of the Average american is 26,000 dollars a year. Its not a broad statement its a fact, messure into that health care, car insurance, gas and rent/mortgage the average american is suffering.

Overheal

Temptamperu wrote: »

The wages of the Average american is 26,000 dollars a year.

On 2 or 3 alleged jobs?

All I'm saying here is be careful about making impulsive claims to support your argument.

Temptamperu

Well not everyone is lucky enough to have 2 or 3 jobs to be fair, it is a recession.