HRM Training Programmes

PaulieYifter

To be brutally honest I am bamboozled by terms such as lactate thresholds, aerobic, anerobic, intervals, tempo etc which are floating around without much of an explanation of how and why they fit together.

I think you should get your hands on one or more of the books suggested in this thread to learn about this. Whether using pace or HR you should follow a plan for your target races. When the plan calls for a Tempo session you need to understand what your target HR for that run is. It's also a help to understand the purpose of each workout.

PGL

Thanks for comments menoscemo and PaulieYifter.

With regards to HR zones, I measured my resting HR as 53bpm this morning - when I plugged this into the Garmin Connect settings, the heart rates have increased eg before I entered my resting HR, Zone 4 was 148 - 164bpm. Now it is 158 - 170bpm. These HRs make more sense to me now - i.e. I had the feeling they were too low.

Given that quite a few of you go with the heart rate training approach, which book is best:
Advanced Marathoning by P&D
Running Formula by Jack Daniels
Lore of Running by Tim Noakes (have this on reserve at my local library)
Heart Monitor Training for the Complete Idiot by Parker

Apart from the last book, the other three do not explicitly reference HR training in their respective table of contents.....

thanks!

Clearlier

PGL - What are your goals and what kind of time commitment are you prepared to make? I ask because it changes the advice a little. If your goal is to be the best that you can be with a big time commitment then I'd suggest you read Hadd seriously and follow it closely. If you wanted to run a half in a few months and never run again then it really wouldn't matter. Obviously you're going to be somewhere in between but where matters a little when deciding which direction to steer you in first.

I'm glad that you have revised your zones because they seemed a little unlikely. How did you actually measure your max? I've read the top two of your books and I think that they're both good but for developing a relatively new but committed runner who's looking at taking their running seriously I'd suggest following Hadd for 6 - 12 months first because he focuses on developing an aerobic base and gives explicit instruction on how to do it. I'd read both of the other books too to develop some ideas about how you want to head with your training once you've developed a good base. N.B. I'm just talking about the focus of your training here. You'll still be able to and in my opinion should participate in races. This isn't encouraged in Hadd but I think it's important to participate in races and watch your times progress and you can race and improve your PB's at the beginning without killing yourself in races.

PGL

Clearlier wrote: »

PGL - What are your goals and what kind of time commitment are you prepared to make?

My goals are to run a couple of half marathons this year, with the first possibly in approx 3 months. My target time is sub 1 hour 40mins - i have picked this finishing time, as one of my buddies came in with this time at the Dublin half last year - and if he can do it, I'm gonna do my damnest to come in under his time!
I am prepared to run for approx 1hr four times a week.

Clearlier wrote: »

PGLIf your goal is to be the best that you can be with a big time commitment then I'd suggest you read Hadd seriously and follow it closely. If you wanted to run a half in a few months and never run again then it really wouldn't matter.

I have got the running bug, so I won't stop at that, and will hopefully do my first marathon next year all going well.

Clearlier wrote: »

PGL How did you actually measure your max?

I measured my on the threadmill last week. 15 min warm up, then turned the incline up to 4%, 1 min @ 150bpm, 1 min @ 160bpm, 1 min @ 170bpm, 1 min @ 180bpm, and the last min going as fast as I could.

Clearlier wrote: »

PGLI've read the top two of your books and I think that they're both good but for developing a relatively new but committed runner who's looking at taking their running seriously I'd suggest following Hadd for 6 - 12 months first because he focuses on developing an aerobic base and gives explicit instruction on how to do it.

When you say Hadd, are you referring to the 25 page pdf that you posted up in an earlier thread, or is there a longer book version?

Clearlier

PGL wrote: »

My goals are to run a couple of half marathons this year, with the first possibly in approx 3 months. My target time is sub 1 hour 40mins - i have picked this finishing time, as one of my buddies came in with this time at the Dublin half last year - and if he can do it, I'm gonna do my damnest to come in under his time!
I am prepared to run for approx 1hr four times a week.

A first point to note and I'm paraphrasing one of the more successful coaches is that you can increase your training load in 2 ways - duration and intensity. As a beginner you should be focusing on duration. In fact I wouldn't be concerned about miles at all just the amount of time spent running.

If you can find the time to do a longer run once a week you'll benefit from it. Start at an hour and add 5 minutes each week. You'll be at 2 hours in a few months. You could wear the HRM but just for your information not for any numbers to hit. On this run you're just aiming to get time on your feet.

The other three runs should all be aerobic and again should be done with a view to increasing duration. I'd suggest something like 1 @ 80% and 2@ 70%-75%.

PGL wrote: »

I have got the running bug, so I won't stop at that, and will hopefully do my first marathon next year all going well.

Marathons are great and I've run a couple myself but don't be too hung up about running one. It's going to take a little while to max out your aerobic system and of all the distances it's the marathon which will find you out the most if you haven't got an aerobic base. That said, I highly recommend buying Advanced Marathoning. Aside from schedules it explains the different purposes of different runs. I wouldn't run a marathon if you weren't at least able for the lowest mileage plan.

PGL wrote: »

I measured my on the threadmill last week. 15 min warm up, then turned the incline up to 4%, 1 min @ 150bpm, 1 min @ 160bpm, 1 min @ 170bpm, 1 min @ 180bpm, and the last min going as fast as I could.

It looks like a protocol which is much better than what most people do. Did you push yourself to the edge of your limits? It's a difficult thing to do on a treadmill unless you have somebody with you. I'm suggesting that you keep an open mind as to what your max is.

PGL wrote: »

When you say Hadd, are you referring to the 25 page pdf that you posted up in an earlier thread, or is there a longer book version?

I'm referring to the 25 page pdf. There is no book. Hadd was a Scottish guy called John Walsh who lived and coached in Malta. He wasn't after fame (his internet alias - Hadd - apparently means nobody in Maltese) or money. He just seemed to love coaching. If you google Hadd training you'll see some epic threads from other sites where runners have followed his guide, you'll also find multiple blogs of people who have followed his guide. I've only heard of successes although there must have been failures too.

PGL

Clearlier wrote: »

If you can find the time to do a longer run once a week you'll benefit from it. Start at an hour and add 5 minutes each week. You'll be at 2 hours in a few months. You could wear the HRM but just for your information not for any numbers to hit. On this run you're just aiming to get time on your feet.

The other three runs should all be aerobic and again should be done with a view to increasing duration. I'd suggest something like 1 @ 80% and 2@ 70%-75%.

Presumably the long run be aerobic?

If so then all four of my runs are aerobic - should I not be mixing it up a bit with anaerobic and / or Zone 5 aswell?

thanks!

menoscemo

PGL wrote: »

Presumably the long run be aerobic?

If so then all four of my runs are aerobic - should I not be mixing it up a bit with anaerobic and / or Zone 5 aswell?

thanks!

As has been said numerous times almost all your runs should be aerobic. You aerobic system is your limiter as evidenced by the fact that you weren't meeting your predicted mcmillan paces at the threshold HR.
Concentrate on maintaining a steady HR in the aerobic zome while running e.g pick a number (140, 145, 150) and try to stick to it. When your HR and Pace both remain steady (i.e. your pace doesn't have to drop to maintain a steady HR) then you will know you are improving. I bet as you were doing that run the other night your HR was steadily rising while your pace was constant, right?

As clearlier has said you really would do well to red that Hadd pdf, absorb and understand the info.

Clearlier

PGL wrote: »

Presumably the long run be aerobic?

If so then all four of my runs are aerobic - should I not be mixing it up a bit with anaerobic and / or Zone 5 aswell?

thanks!

As meno said

When you get your long run to 2 hours you can start thinking about effort levels (it'll always, always, always be aerobic though unless you start heading towards elite status at which point there may be some faster stuff when getting into race prep but you won't be looking for this kind of advice if you get to that level). However from a training load perspective you'll be better off adding runs to your training load before intensity i.e. 5 days then 6 days then 7 days.

Bear in mind here that I'm talking ideal world, it's entirely possible to run well off 4 days a week training - you just probably won't get to the very highest peak of what you could achieve. It's easy to get obsessed with running and forget that life is for living not for running.

A few key points to keep in mind:

• Keep it slower than you think you need at the moment
• Keep adding to your training load by increasing one of:

1. Frequency - add an extra run,
2. Duration - make your current run(s) longer
3. Intensity - make your current run(s) harder (avoid anaerobic territory)

• Mix up the paces
• Do a few strides every now and then - makes it easier to regain your speed
• Listen to your body and take days off whenever you need them
• Have a plan but don't be a slave to it
• Get into a routine

I seem to have veered off into how to make running a part of your life territory. I'll leave it because I think that it's good advice (I should probably take some of it myself ).


Final point, do read and re-read the Hadd stuff. I found a short thread on a message board written by one of his athletes which may help you access his ideas: http://can.milesplit.com/discussion/topics/90162/1

kingQuez

Hi PGL, a couple of comments from reading through the thread. Lots of interesting stuff in here in the replies, so thanks for posting the questions!

PGL wrote: »

On average I have been running 5k 3 times a week (pace 4:25min/km). I have only done 6 official races, with the longest being 11.5km (pace 4:40min/km). My aim is to do a couple of half marathons later this year.

PGL wrote: »

My goals are to run a couple of half marathons this year, with the first possibly in approx 3 months. My target time is sub 1 hour 40mins - i have picked this finishing time, as one of my buddies came in with this time at the Dublin half last year - and if he can do it, I'm gonna do my damnest to come in under his time!
I am prepared to run for approx 1hr four times a week.

You've been running an average of 1.5hrs a week recently, but are prepared to jump up to about 4hrs a week which is a big increase so make sure you take things slowly and don't jump in with any 1hr sessions, or intervals just yet - build up to them, its easy to get injured during the initial enthusiasm of starting a training plan by bumping the intensity/frequency/volume higher than you're used to without a bit of a lead in

There are many people on here more knowledgable than me, but when I started trying to train with a HRM I found the effort involved in getting into most HR zones quite difficult. It turned out I had my max HR way off. It's easy to get bogged down in the details of HR training, but usually people get fitter no matter what structure they add to their training if they hadn't got too much structure before, which will lead to a better race time. Where the HRM can really come in will be with ensuring you cover the distance by properly pacing yourself during training (I use mine to make me go slower at the start of long runs, so that I dont fade at the end), and the race.

The most useful way I found to use my HRM, was to pick a distance-base plan like the hal higdon ones (http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51131/Half-Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program - perhaps pick tues, weds, thurs, sunday as your four days), and just aim to cover the distance - with no specific HR or pace. Do the long runs on sundays slow, same with the ones on wednesdays (to recover from tuesday, so you're set for another quality run on thursday), and mix the pace up a bit on tuesdays and thursdays depending on how you feel.

If you do something like this, you'll start to get a feel for what HR you can sustain during long runs (and then can push a little above that during a race), but also in training you'll see when you think your running "easy" that perhaps your HR is up high and you need to slow down -- not for that one run, but so that you can keep to your overall training plan by still getting up and running the next day.

My only other comment is that you say you can run for a max of 1hr sessions... the further into a half marathon plan you get the longer that will need to be. If you're targeting a run of 1h40 in the race, at the late stages of training your last couple of long weekend runs will need to be up to perhaps 1'30, to properly prepare you for the race. For the first goal of the 10k an hour is lots though

Best of luck with it!