Time limit for dole?

Toby Take a Bow

hondasam wrote: »

My point is I could get a job paying the same as the dole would pay me.

And my point is you can't possibly know that, as you don't seem to have a realistic grasp on what's going on outside your window. You've read a good few replies saying that people who have years of experience in a particular area of work can't get jobs in those areas, as it's not the 'right' experience. How difficult, then, do you think it will be to try and get a job in an area that you have no experience in?

I'll give you a clue: very difficult.

Kirby

Sierra 117 wrote: »

We should give the politicians an end time for them to have created jobs by and if they don't meet that deadline, we cut their pay.

This is the best idea I've heard in ages. Lets see how quick they would be then with their "initiatives"

LighterGuy

'Time limit for dole' huh?



I read the first page. Cant bring myself to read the rest. Every up-their-own-arse typical boards poster spouting crap no doubt.... "good plan ya" etc.

wilkie2006

hondasam wrote: »

It is time social welfare fraud was stopped, anyone signing on for more than six months should have to explain themselves.
I would go as far as to say after six months on the dole payments should be reduced.

In fairness, while the recession is affecting everyone, it's the working class who are being hit longest and hardest. Reducing the dole after 6 months just punishes poorer people for not having qualifications they can emigrate with.

Benefit fraud, while an undeniable problem, is not the biggest one; tax evasion is. Recent figures from the UK show that last year the country suffered £1b benefit fraud but £70b tax evasion.

nice_very

how about the 5% who were on the dole in the "boom time", how many of them are still on it??

now we are at 14% approx. Id say that 10% increase in 4/5 years is about right..

I personally am almost at 1 year and I am trying to get any kind of job, for these reasons:

1: more money to enjoy my life a bit more
2: not be a "burden" on the state
3: I'm bored
4: I feel all my experience and years are being ignored

in no particular order... and I doubt if I am the only one of the 450,000 presently on the dole, that feels this way.

Jesus Wept

Sierra 117 wrote: »

We should give the politicians an end time for them to have created jobs by and if they don't meet that deadline, we cut their pay.

Stop encouraging them to create jobs, they are sh1t at it.

zenno

hondasam wrote: »

I am aware of how tough it is out there. I'm not saying everyone is committing fraud.
It's easy to go to the meeting and produce a few letters or emails and say Yes I tried to get a job but was not successful.
I feel six months is enough time to get a job paying the same as the dole.

you're living on planet cuckoo land with that half-arsed comment imo. one of these day's you're time will come and you will have no choice to go on the dole and then we will see how you manage.

Oranage2

nice_very wrote: »

how about the 5% who were on the dole in the "boom time", how many of them are still on it??


1: more money to enjoy my life a bit more
2: not be a "burden" on the state
3: I'm bored
4: I feel all my experience and years are being ignored.

I work and the only difference is the state is a 'burden' on me.

Richard Hillman

as somebody who was on the dole for a long time and still technically am. i can testament to say that my experience of the monthly sign on leads me to believe that its probably a ratio of 50:50 of people on the dole that have or don't have any interest in working. The smell of booze down there is unreal.

Hank Scorpio

Country really is in ****e

nice_very

Oranage2 wrote: »

I work and the only difference is the state is a 'burden' on me.

touche Orange, touche.. I see where u coming from though.. can you understand my/our frustration though..? I would love a job, any job that lets me go out an odd night, maybe I have less outgoings than you, still I am trying to my bit for me and my country.. stay well, we are all in this mess together

Paddy Cow

This is a really dumb idea right now. People are pushed to breaking point and there simply aren't enough jobs out there. It's nothing more than a pathetic attempt to deflect attention away from their own ineptitude. Blame the dole scroungers for bleeding the economy dry :rolleyes: I wonder will they be foregoing their two pensions or cutting back on their expenses? How long before another financial instution needs bailing out?

There will always be a small minority of people who are too lazy to work. This does not apply to the vast amount of people on the dole. Instead of them wasting large amounts of money trying to force the few scroungers into work, why don't they use what little resources we have into creating jobs for the people who genuinely want to work? Which is going to be better for the economy in the long run - investing money in those who will be productive members of society or throwing money down the drain after wasters?

I'm not saying that people should be left to spend their whole lives drawing social welfare, just that now is not the time to be wasting money pretending to sort it out. This is nothing more than a scaremongering tactic to make it look like they are doing something. Yes they might save a little bit of money by cutting back on some people's benefits but is it really worth the effort right now when those resources could go to better use? For every €20 they might save from a scrounger, they would earn a lot more in taxes and money spent in the economy if they found a job for a person willing to work. They don't give a sh!te though. "We're getting tough on scroungers who spend your hard earned taxpayers money" sounds a lot better than "We haven't got a fcuking clue what we are doing and to be honest, we don't care. We just want to be seen to do enough until we can claim our pensions and let the next bunch of legit scroungers take over. Screw you all suckers!".

Caveman1

I'm on the dole over a year now, when I first got laid off the sitting around all day killed me so I would go into town and hand out cvs and go online looking for jobs, after a month or so I got fed up with not getting call backs or going for interviews with 40-50 other people there for the 4-5 jobs on offer, it's very frustrating, not to mention it knocks your confidence. I decided to go to the social welfare to see If I could do a course, they put me on a 6 month full time course, I actually enjoyed it but got nowhere by doing it, I was told that we would be doin work placement which didn't happen, we were also told that Fas who ran the course would stay in touch for 2+ years to help look for jobs and arrange for interviews, not once since I've finished have I been contacted by anyone, it was basically a waste of time, now I find myself back to square one looking for work again, if I had the money I would be gone to Australia this country just seems to be never ending with the bad news, I'm lucky in a way that if my dole was cut it wouldn't cripple me but I have contributed enough money to it over the years to feel I deserve my full payment without somebody deciding to cut it because the very small minority don't want to work

Toby Take a Bow

Oranage2 wrote: »

I work and the only difference is the state is a 'burden' on me.

Not the case. Even if you're not drawing on the state (too much) right now, you'll just be paying back for everything you've drawn on in the past (and making payments for all the future draining you'll cause the state in the next 30/40 years).

_feedback_

This says a lot about the type of people that are showing up for interviews at the moment.

Social welfare office bans pyjamas for interviews

A social welfare office in Dublin has erected a sign on its window warning claimants that pyjamas are not appropriate clothing to wear for those attending for interview.

Staff at the Damastown social welfare office said this type of attire will no longer be tolerated.

It is believed the decision was made to ban pyjamas after a number of complaints were made from customers.

Link

fryup

Lisa2011 wrote: »

Are you one of these people who think the unemployed shoud take any type of job and are too lazy to work?

Do you really think people want to be on the dole?

well some of them do yes,

some people are quietly content on the dole living the easy life

MagicSean

It should really be on a sliding scale. Every year after the first it goes down 10%. And backdate it too so that the people it hits are the spongers who never even tried to get off it.

inforfun

Should all have been done during the boom years.
Less people would have had objected to it and it would have caused less "innocent" victims.

In stead they raised the dole with double digit percentages during those years.

later12

Well I hate to admit this, but it's not altogether a bad idea.

There is nothing inherently wrong with giving jobseekers a reasonable amount of time in which to find employment before asking them to give an explanation for remaining on unemployment support.

So long as the Department of Social Protection allows a fair and accessible appeals process, I really don't see any problem at all with this perfectly reasonable labour activation measure.

Lisa2011

Telling people to take what jobs they can get is all good but employers wont offer someone who worked in a bank a job working in a shop.People are losing jobs every day of the week because businesses are genuinely struggling and others are not satisfied that their profits are down so they shut up shop.

Does anyone think this is the right thing to do when the secretary general to the dept of health is retiring at 56 getting 430k lump sum and 103k a year in a pension.The government have to say money and they are targeting people who cant get a job.Thats not fair.

I dont see anything with this plan but its the wrong time to do it. You dont it during a recession and certainly when there is not enough to go around.

Target all the foreign nationals and the irish who are committing welfare fraud and refuse to consider claims for people who have just left second level education

Have they forgotten that if they were to get everyone off the dole there would be no point in having welfare offices and then there would be a surplus of staff.

_feedback_

Lisa2011 wrote: »

Target all the foreign nationals and the irish who are committing welfare fraud

Is that not exactly what this measure seems to be about?!

theg81der

later10 wrote: »

Well I hate to admit this, but it's not altogether a bad idea.

There is nothing inherently wrong with giving jobseekers a reasonable amount of time in which to find employment before asking them to give an explanation for remaining on unemployment support.

So long as the Department of Social Protection allows a fair and accessible appeals process, I really don't see any problem at all with this perfectly reasonable labour activation measure.

Agh but its not really like this thou. I`ve seen lots of people who actually weren`t entitled by the rules to claim but were granted their claims and likewise I`ve personally been targeted in the wrong - actually because of their mistake, they lost documents and failed to take note of giving me permition so thats now on my file!

Lisa2011

fryup wrote: »

well some of them do yes,

some people are quietly content on the dole living the easy life

I know there are people out there who have not even worked one day in their life but what about people who worked hard for the highlest level of education i.e. masters and worked for a long time paying taxes and cant get work in ireland or outside the country.

Its a known fact that unless the problems this country faces is sorted and people are given a chance by employers nothing is going to change and you will continue to have mass immigration for those who can afford to go and a hugh increase in people taking their own lives because they have no money and cant get work.

If dole payments were stopped for everyone after a certain time period what would that do to the economy. people would not be able to buy food and pay bills. they would starve or freeze to death living in cold homes.

How are people expected to pay all the charges if they cant get work.

I bet there isn't even 10,000 jobs being advertised at the moment and how can 500,000 get jobs.

Lisa2011

later10 wrote: »

Well I hate to admit this, but it's not altogether a bad idea.

There is nothing inherently wrong with giving jobseekers a reasonable amount of time in which to find employment before asking them to give an explanation for remaining on unemployment support.

So long as the Department of Social Protection allows a fair and accessible appeals process, I really don't see any problem at all with this perfectly reasonable labour activation measure.

How is that a labour activation measure. Its not going to create jobs. I bet after the time limit is up and even if you have applied for 20 or 30 jobs thats to say if there is that amount to match your experience and so on they will still probably cut your money and there will be a time where alot of people wont have no money at all.

From everything I have heard there are people who have lost savings by paying their mortgage and all they have left is the dole and as such they cant afford to even more because they cant afford to pay rent.

I am sure that alot of people on this board know of people who would be affected by this. I certainly do. Men with a wife and kids will get off the dole if he earns enough to be able to feed his family.

I know someone who was expected to job share in two offices that were at least 2 hours away from each other by car and all she was being offered was 165 euro a week and she had would have to pay for petrol and accomodation herself when she would have to travel to the other office. How can that be done on 165 euro a week. Also how could she pay her mortgage out of that and pay her other bills.

Nothingbetter2d

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

We've only been going out five months, so bit soon I think!

Problem is, I was ill which was why I had to leave my last job, so it's more illness benefit than dole (same amount though). That complicates things. And I just want to be off SW at this stage. :-/

The hostel is an idea! Hmmm, you got me thinking!

bare in mind when i applied for rent allowance it took 7 months to get processed and that also requires you to be 6 months in rented accomadation BEFORE you even apply for the rent allowance.... prepare for a tough year ahead of you.

stovelid

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I certainly agree there should be a time limit for collecting dole. I was out of work for 6 months, actively looking for a job and unable to get it because I live at home. Yet there are those who have been on it for months and years on end and not even attempting to find work.

Obviously it would need to be regulated and I don't honestly think anyone is saying EVERYONE should be subject to it. But if you simply not bothering to try to get work, then I have to problem with your payment being cut or stopped if necessary.

The problem with it being incumbent on you to find work within a specific time frame is that you will be pushed on to exploitative 'schemes'.

As you bum off your parents, such a low wage for a week's work wouldn't be an issue but it may present problems for people who have actual financial responsibilities.

Mrs Shuttleworth

elviscostello wrote: »

Of course it's good in theory, but they continue to allow it to be abused.. How can they get the dole numbers down if low paid/skilled jobs are being eliminated.

Have a look at the Law Society employment list.

http://www.lawsociety.ie/Pages/Legal_Vacancies/?p=1

The amount of "internships" for both solicitors and secretaries is staggering, including working in the Law Society itself!!

Flush the guts of 15,000 Euro down the shore over five years after college, then when you actually DO qualify (even though you've done an in-house paid traineeship that must comply with minimum wage) you're considered of no use even by your own regulatory body and should work the guts of 16 hours a day for free.

This is a Monty Python step too far. I hope all of the industries doing this fall entirely on their ass.

david75

I know this wont be popular but i've got skills and experience and i cant even get a minimum wage job and have been trying hard for months now, and i'd be happy to do a minimum wage job, even though as it stands, i'm better off not working, so how about the government makes it so that Irish people have to be offered the jobs first before any non nationals. That'd shake it all up big time.

bordsie

heres an idea, give them say...3 months. If they don't get a job in that time they obviously don't want to work, so you could put them in prison

Logical Fallacy

bordsie wrote: »

heres an idea, give them say...3 months. If they don't get a job in that time they obviously don't want to work, so you could put them in prison

It would be cheaper to leave them on the dole than cover the cost of imprisonment.

Good critical thinking though. Shows initiative, if a certain lack of understanding.

Mrs Shuttleworth

The Government and their masters don't care if people leave, die of ill health or just kill themselves from despair. In fact if we all did, it would probably just be of assistance to them.

This is nothing to do with clamping down on welfare fraud, and everything to do with repaying high rolling gamblers and bailing out FF's cronies.

bordsie

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

It would be cheaper to leave them on the dole than cover the cost of imprisonment.

Good critical thinking though. Shows initiative, if a certain lack of understanding.

we can't just allow them to continue spending 200e a week on cigarettes and dutch gold. just lock them away with bare essentials

Logical Fallacy

bordsie wrote: »

we can't just allow them to continue spending 200e a week on cigarettes and dutch gold. just lock them away with bare essentials

It would still cost more than 200 euro a week to do that.

You can't criminalise not having a job.

You are basically taking a jump from benefits to jail, instead of just advocating stopping their benefits...which would be the more sensible option.

cursai

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

The Government and their masters don't care if people leave, die of ill health or just kill themselves from despair. In fact if we all did, it would probably just be of assistance to them.

This is nothing to do with clamping down on welfare fraud, and everything to do with repaying high rolling gamblers and bailing out FF's cronies.

And maintaining a lot of (not all) lazy people

bordsie

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

It would still cost more than 200 euro a week to do that.

You can't criminalise not having a job.

You are basically taking a jump from benefits to jail, instead of just advocating stopping their benefits...which would be the more sensible option.

A lot of them say us honest workers "better hope" they find work and the economy doesn't worsen or they'll be coming looting our houses'. i'd feel safer with them locked up tbh. although Lifestyle sports will prob take a massive loss in tracksuits and have to make staff redundant...its a vicious cycle.

mattjack

bordsie wrote: »

heres an idea, give them say...3 months. If they don't get a job in that time they obviously don't want to work, so you could put them in prison

We haven't got a prison big enough.

bordsie

mattjack wrote: »

We haven't got a prison big enough.

Send some of them abroad maybe, or just put on a ship and out to sea never to be seen again. i still don't understand why the government don't have them out sweeping the streets, painting walls, picking up shit etc to earn there keep. at least we can feel better about getting up in freezing cold at the crack of dawn in they're out there instead of in enjoying their morning fry, great life they have.

Logical Fallacy

bordsie wrote: »

A lot of them say us honest workers "better hope" they find work and the economy doesn't worsen or they'll be coming looting our houses'. i'd feel safer with them locked up tbh. although Lifestyle sports will prob take a massive loss in tracksuits and have to make staff redundant...its a vicious cycle.

bordsie wrote: »

Send some of them abroad maybe, or just put on a ship and out to sea never to be seen again. i still don't understand why the government don't have them out sweeping the streets, painting walls, picking up shit etc to earn there keep. at least we can feel better about getting up in freezing cold at the crack of dawn in they're out there instead of in enjoying their morning fry, great life they have.

Ah...now it makes sense. You don't want a solution, you just want something that makes you feel less bitter.

Got it.

later12

Lisa2011 wrote: »

How is that a labour activation measure.

Because it requires that jobseekers provide verifiable evidence from employers that they have been seeking employment and submitting their CVs in response to advertised positions, for example.

It ensures that jobseekers are active in seeking work, not necessarily that they do achieve work. The DSP will ask for an explanation if a candidate does not meet his anticipated "exit date", and if a social welfare inspector can contact prospective employers and verify that the candidate has been trying, then the candidate can be happy the the DSP know he's not a time waster, and the DSP can be happy that the candidate is indeed not a timewaster.

I fail to see the problem quite frankly.

I know someone who was expected to job share in two offices that were at least 2 hours away from each other by car and all she was being offered was 165 euro a week and she had would have to pay for petrol and accomodation herself when she would have to travel to the other office. How can that be done on 165 euro a week. Also how could she pay her mortgage out of that and pay her other bills.

First off, if an individual cannot afford their mortgage, it is not the responsibility of the DSP to pay that mortgage, nor ought it be.

Also at €165 per week, it sounds like that employee may be entitled to additional welfare supports to help him or her in meeting day to day living expenses; I'm not quite sure that I believe that your friend was asked to make a 4 hour round trip, the approximate equivalent of driving from Dublin to Tipperary, and back to Dublin. That's not particularly credible.

LighterGuy

Stop me if I am wrong...

people who are in favour of time limits for doles are:
- people working.
- people who are living in their own bubble.
- people attending college living of their parents.


People against it are:
- People who lost their jobs due to recession.
- people living in the real world.

mattjack

bordsie wrote: »

Send some of them abroad maybe, or just put on a ship and out to sea never to be seen again. i still don't understand why the government don't have them out sweeping the streets, painting walls, picking up shit etc to earn there keep. at least we can feel better about getting up in freezing cold at the crack of dawn in they're out there instead of in enjoying their morning fry, great life they have.

We could brand them or tattoo them for ID purposes too.

gsxr1

I found it hard to get into a certain night class with FAS. Booked solid.

After I did get in, I found myself to be the only one in the class of 20 with a job,

I was also the only one who had to fork out 300 notes for it.


People are trying. For what ?? who knows. There is not enough jobs out there.



ANYONE who does not attend FAS and at least show proof of searching for work should be cutoff . Simple as that.

I hate to see my tax money paying losers who refuse to get off the dole .

I am in full support of my tax money being spend on people who need help and are trying.

And im sure this new spin on time limits is just to find out who is trying.

Good for them.

LighterGuy wrote: »

Stop me if I am wrong...

people who are in favour of time limits for doles are:
- people working.
- people who are living in their own bubble.
- people attending college living of their parents.


People against it are:
- People who lost their jobs due to recession.
- people living in the real world.

Please explain your last comment, and how people who are gainfully employed, "Not" living in the real world?

LighterGuy

gsxr1 wrote: »

Please explain your last comment, and how people who are gainfully employed, "Not" living in the real world?

Alight, since you siad please :pac:

Basically, its easy for one to say introduce a time limit on the dole if they are happy working away, but not having their ear to the ground. Ie, arent taking on board there are alot of people out of work who are trying. Businesses are still closing down. People still loosing their job. We're not out of the clear yet. Times are still bad.

If things were better, yeah there would be no excuse for someone on the dole for any serious lenth of time.

Darius.Tr

I dont think this is going to solve much of the problems, there are way more people on the dole who seriously needs it, than those who dont. Imagine what would happen after a year or so, those people will be starving and freezing to death....

later12

LighterGuy wrote: »

Stop me if I am wrong...

people who are in favour of time limits for doles are:
- people working.
- people who are living in their own bubble.
- people attending college living of their parents.


People against it are:
- People who lost their jobs due to recession.
- people living in the real world.

You're wrong.

We are all living in the real world, we all have obligations, and almost everybody is experiencing the effects of a difficult economic period. However, there is nothing wrong with asking jobseekers to supply reasons for not having met their target date of leaving welfare. Seriously, what is your problem with that?

I understand how someone would have a problem with a cutoff from benefits regardless of whether a claimant has an explanation for remaining on welfare or not, but that's not what is being suggested. The DSP will simply ask claimants to verifiably prove they have been trying to access employment. Proof of this would obviously explain that a claimant has not met his target date through no fault of his or own. No problem.

gsxr1

LighterGuy wrote: »

Alight, since you siad please :pac:

Basically, its easy for one to say introduce a time limit on the dole if they are happy working away, but not having their ear to the ground. Ie, arent taking on board there are alot of people out of work who are trying. Businesses are still closing down. People still loosing their job. We're not out of the clear yet. Times are still bad.

If things were better, yeah there would be no excuse for someone on the dole for any serious lenth of time.

I was on the dole for 3 years myself in the last 5. I know how hard it is.

I tried and tried to get a job. Until I was set. I am making a 1/3 less than I did pre 2007.
I found there to be jobs out there, just lower paid. I also found, that if you really really want to work, you will find it. Might not be perfect. But work all the same.

I found that job applications where useless. Getting out and about industrial estates with a positive attitude was more rewarding. Selling oneself. Keeping your ear to the ground. Helping people around the community leads to a good reputation for a hard worker.

I found sitting on my hole all day watching Jeremy Kyle or whatever useless and a recipe for poor mental and physical health.

I know exactly the type the government are targeting. The dopes who need a kick up the arse. It need to be done. Or they may well become 20 years on the dole and a complete loss to society ..

Things need to happen.

Kirby

gsxr1 wrote: »

I know exactly the type the government are targeting. The dopes who need a kick up the arse. It need to be done. Or they may well become 20 years on the dole and a complete loss to society ..

Things need to happen.

I would agree with that and I think many would but is an arbitrary time limit really the answer?

Personally, I think they have shot themselves in the foot regarding the internship scheme. Companies are just taking the piss and taking advantage of the free labour. I don't blame them really, I blame the system that allows them to do it.

One of my good friends is doing it at the moment and has been for several months. He is going above and beyond for them by the sounds of it and still he doesn't seem convinced they would ever pay him if they could.

The "idea" of the scheme wasn't bad. Allow people to gain experience in a field. Makes sense. But when you have shops getting people in to sweep floors.....it's missing the point completely. They need a better vetting system for the companies that should qualify.

Lisa2011

The people who make decisions like this dont know how hard it is these days to get jobs and if the did know they would think twice of doing this.

The majority on the dole are on it because they have lost jobs they had for years and have been struggling to find work.

I have a relative that just heard back about an interview they had last week and sadly they were unsuccessful and might I add it was an interview for a job they were qualified to do.

I also want to say that my relative has done everything possible to get a job even in sectors that dont require qualifications and also for jobs outside Ireland but with no luck

In this the day and age being on the dole longer than 3, 6 or 12 months does not mean that people dont want to work it just means for the majority they CANT find a job.

So if people end up being on the dole for 10 years or more its not their fault. Its obvious that there are people who wont be able to retrain because they have already achieved the highest level of education there is.

Lisa2011

Kirby wrote: »

I would agree with that and I think many would but is an arbitrary time limit really the answer?

Personally, I think they have shot themselves in the foot regarding the internship scheme. Companies are just taking the piss and taking advantage of the free labour. I don't blame them really, I blame the system that allows them to do it.

One of my good friends is doing it at the moment and has been for several months. He is going above and beyond for them by the sounds of it and still he doesn't seem convinced they would ever pay him if they could.

The "idea" of the scheme wasn't bad. Allow people to gain experience in a field. Makes sense. But when you have shops getting people in to sweep floors.....it's missing the point completely. They need a better vetting system for the companies that should qualify.

I agree companies are taking advantage of the internship scheme. I would not call it an internship and I believe that people who are qualified and have experience are the one's getting the internship jobs. Where I live there is about 40 or 50 jobs advertised on the scheme and these companies actually hired and paid a wage there would be at least 100 people off the dole.

The only way people wont be on the dole too long is for employers to stop saying no to potential employees because they are afraid they will if they get a better offer.

david75

makes me wonder...

the people here on boards.ie who give those on the dole a hard time, seem to post more than anyone else..awful lotta time on their hands...


civil servants i'm betting..