Time limit for dole?

FGR

A lot of the long term dolers are those who manipulate the system in order to claim disability benefit.

Hence no need to worry about looking for work.

It gives all of those who are legitimately on db a bad name and makes it harder for them to claim it themselves.

Kalel

I have no issue the the Job Bridge .. We had a girl in on it about 6 months ago, she did a great job, showed herself to be a great worker and a fast learner. She was then offered and accepted a full time position. She had been unemployed for around 12 months so I don't think you will find her complaining.

christmas2012

Kalel wrote: »

I have no issue the the Job Bridge .. We had a girl in on it about 6 months ago, she did a great job, showed herself to be a great worker and a fast learner. She was then offered and accepted a full time position. She had been unemployed for around 12 months so I don't think you will find her complaining.

how do we know thats just not a made up story,i know a few people that worked on free labour schemes that had been let go,only to have the same company hire more free labour workers..there is no strong deterrent in place to keep that from happening..

if schemes like jobbridge and fas are allowed to continue,they are going to increase unemployment,as they occupy what could have been a paid position.

there are lots of companies who use it to this end.

CruelCoin

christmas2012 wrote: »

how do we know thats just not a made up story,i know a few people that worked on free labour schemes that had been let go,only to have the same company hire more free labour workers..there is no strong deterrent in place to keep that from happening..

if schemes like jobbridge and fas are allowed to continue,they are going to increase unemployment,as they occupy what could have been a paid position.

there are lots of companies who use it to this end.

Not to sound harsh or anything, but maybe they were crap, so the company decided to try a fresh batch?

"dons flame-retardent suit and braces"

MagicSean

christmas2012 wrote: »

Whether you see it as experience or exploitation is your business,but the facts remain,it robs what could have been a paid job from the community,further consigning those most vunerable to a lifetime of poverty and deeper unemployment and hopelessness.

Think of it,for every tesco job(for example),that could have advertised for paid staff,they dont instead they turn around and look for free labour via jobbridge..there fore jobbridge are joblockers

You are working under the assumption that the company would have spent the money on the extra staff member when it is likely they would have just continued as is and not hired anyone.

christmas2012

CruelCoin wrote: »

Not to sound harsh or anything, but maybe they were crap, so the company decided to try a fresh batch?

"dons flame-retardent suit and braces"

LOL,well what if they decide every batch of interns they get are not up to it,so they can have that excuse to hire more perpetuating unemployment in the area,they should be hiring in..

it takes jobs away:(

christmas2012

MagicSean wrote: »

You are working under the assumption that the company would have spent the money on the extra staff member when it is likely they would have just continued as is and not hired anyone.

tescos are still in expansion across ireland,they have never been busier,they have 24 hour supermarkets,but you see with tescos they have machines to do the checking out,ie no staff needed,and hiring free labour workers,when they need extra staff,and most companies hire extra staff around the winter period when they are at their busiest,but because free labour is in the way,they wont be paid christmas staff..

supermacs used to hire paid staff but now dont due to these schemes,and what i dont understand is why they are allowed to be on the list,as they can well than more afford to hire..


the flaw with these free labour schemes is they have no strong deterrents(a 6 month cooling off period is not a strong deterrent,when you think that they can wait 6 months,or just hire at christmas),they should have a prerequirement whereby no company is allowed free labour unless they employ a percentage of the free labour staff near the end of the free labour internship..

steve9859

christmas2012 wrote: »

how do we know thats just not a made up story,i know a few people that worked on free labour schemes that had been let go,only to have the same company hire more free labour workers..there is no strong deterrent in place to keep that from happening..

if schemes like jobbridge and fas are allowed to continue,they are going to increase unemployment,as they occupy what could have been a paid position.

there are lots of companies who use it to this end.

And I would argue that there are lots that dont. It is a reach to say that all jobbridge jobs would be full time paid jobs....

You can't just say, every time you see a good story, that it might be made up. How do we know that every bad story is not made up? AFAIK you've just made up your story about people that you allegedly know.

christmas2012

Trust me ive been on the scheme i know how it works,there were full timers that had their hours cut down just as the free labour staff came in,it was all the buzz in the office..

the permanent staff went to their union,we even thought the situation was terrible for them we didnt know we were being used like that..

they said aswell that jobs that could have been advertised werent because of the scheme..

and there were people on the scheme that had no proper training,work exp and werent qualified in that area,even at standard certificate level(like fetac)..

NinjaK

You cant cut the dole completely on people, how will they survive? Thefts would skyrocket.

christmas2012

NinjaK wrote: »

You cant cut the dole completely on people, how will they survive? Thefts would skyrocket.

im not suggesting cut the dole,but i think they should change the way the scheme works,as its easy to exploit workers,and actually create unemployment which is what they are doing..

skoomi

There is definitely a "dole culture" in Ireland - people who have no intention of working ever and are actually proud of it - even young men from well-to-do families.

BUT ... there are people that are actually trying to find work, like me. Not even my local Tesco, Dunnes, Penneys, Super Valu etc. etc. are hiring. These are for want of a better word the lowly jobs that should be easy to get. I'm not qualified enough for most of the vacancies offered online. I've been unsuccessful in applying for a lot of positions for this JobSh!t scheme. What can I do?

BUT (#2) ... I do agree that there should be some sort of fire under our arses. It's ridiculous what I can afford on the dole. Granted I haven't bought myself any new clothes or electronics since I've signed on, but I do get the chance to have at least one session a week and maybe a few pints. I went to the cinema to see The Avengers last week. Tonight my friend and I are going halves on a nice bottle of rum (it's a Monday night).

BUT (#3) ... If scumbags get their dole taken away, they WILL resort to [more] crime to make a living.

forfuxsake

I saw some people today collecting their dole in the post office and it struck me that I would be very scared of them if they had no money to live on.

They looked like inbred villagers from the Middle Ages. They looked very strong and demented.

mattjack

forfuxsake wrote: »

I saw some people today collecting their dole in the post office and it struck me that I would be very scared of them if they had no money to live on.

They looked like inbred villagers from the Middle Ages. They looked very strong and demented.

Were you looking down from your Ivory Tower ?

fianna saor

i think they should introduce a system that gradually reduces the amount of dole you get the longer you are on it, this encourages the lazy (not all) section of dole recipients to get up off their arses and look for work, also will discourage people who get away with receiving their payments long term reducing the numbers on it and therefore making the inspectors jobs easier to police the fraudsters.

skoomi

mattjack wrote: »

Were you looking down from your Ivory Tower ?

Are you disputing the fact that there are thick scumbag savages in Ireland?

plasmaguy

About 5% of people on the dole are satisfied to be there and really arent interested in finding work.

About 95% really want a job but simply can't find one.

Why punish the 95% for the actions of the long term slacker 5%? Doesn't make sense.

Retraining of the unemployed is the only solution, unfortunately, we don't have a proper organisation to do that apart from the shambolic jobs for the boys FAS.

whatdoicare

I wonder would the jobsbridge scheme actually work if there was some sort of incentive brought in to keep people on?
Like say, if the company turns the intern into a full time employee with contract etc etc then they get whatever the person was getting (dole + 50) for another 9 months to help towards paying the wages which obviously would have to go up to minimum wage.
So they get a low cost worker for another period - 18 months being plenty of time for a business to get up and running and for the intern to be pulling their weight. The intern gets a proper job after the 9 months with prsi etc and an actual incentive to sign up to the scheme. Government gets to sign another person off the dole. Win - win.

Or is this too "crazy" an idea?

token101

mattjack wrote: »

Were you looking down from your Ivory Tower ?

Maybe if plebeians got off the dole they too could afford such luxuries as ivory towers.

token101

whatdoicare wrote: »

I wonder would the jobsbridge scheme actually work if there was some sort of incentive brought in to keep people on?
Like say, if the company turns the intern into a full time employee with contract etc etc then they get whatever the person was getting (dole + 50) for another 9 months to help towards paying the wages which obviously would have to go up to minimum wage.
So they get a low cost worker for another period - 18 months being plenty of time for a business to get up and running and for the intern to be pulling their weight. The intern gets a proper job after the 9 months with prsi etc and an actual incentive to sign up to the scheme. Government gets to sign another person off the dole. Win - win.

Or is this too "crazy" an idea?

This already happens. If they hire the worker they don't pay their PRSI for a year.

The only problem with this scheme is the fact that it is aimed at everyone, rather than those needing work experience. Tescos, Supermacs should be vetted. That's all that's needed.

skaface

token101 wrote: »

Maybe if plebeians got off the dole they too could afford such luxuries as ivory towers.

So its only the "Lower Class" that are claiming Welfare is it??

whatdoicare

token101 wrote: »

This already happens. If they hire the worker they don't pay their PRSI for a year.

The only problem with this scheme is the fact that it is aimed at everyone, rather than those needing work experience. Tescos, Supermacs should be vetted. That's all that's needed.

I agree there- there should be a cut off for any company making a profit margin over a certain amount.

PRSI isnt really that much every week - it's obviously not any real incentive to an employer, maybe adding the extra money incentive to the prsi would be that extra push towards taking on an employee rather than letting them go and starting again.

Kalel

christmas2012 wrote: »

Kalel wrote: »

I have no issue the the Job Bridge .. We had a girl in on it about 6 months ago, she did a great job, showed herself to be a great worker and a fast learner. She was then offered and accepted a full time position. She had been unemployed for around 12 months so I don't think you will find her complaining.

how do we know thats just not a made up story,i know a few people that worked on free labour schemes that had been let go,only to have the same company hire more free labour workers..there is no strong deterrent in place to keep that from happening..

if schemes like jobbridge and fas are allowed to continue,they are going to increase unemployment,as they occupy what could have been a paid position.

there are lots of companies who use it to this end.

So because I have a story that goes against your point of view I must have made it up..Nice...shows you for what you are really like..I wouldn't like to hire someone like you on a full time basis and spend money training you to find out you are like this..I gave one very truthful story where the job bridge scheme worked exactly as it was designed so go shove that as far as you can up your opinionated arse..enjoy the dole..

christmas2012

enjoy the dole?i have for your information done one of these schemes,and pointed out that they are abused,if the mass unemployed turned around and said stick your free labour scheme where the sun dont shine,and joined the right to work initiative,we would be in a stronger position as jobseekers...

youre attitude,and personal attacks show you for who you really are..

Jester252

I don't see why they don't use people on the dole to improve the local area

whatdoicare

Jester252 wrote: »

I don't see why they don't use people on the dole to improve the local area

Because people on the dole aren't criminals and there are already people being paid to so this, I would imagine.

christmas2012

they should pay them not create unemployment i agree

Kalel

christmas2012 wrote: »

enjoy the dole?i have for your information done one of these schemes,and pointed out that they are abused,if the mass unemployed turned around and said stick your free labour scheme where the sun dont shine,and joined the right to work initiative,we would be in a stronger position as jobseekers...

youre attitude,and personal attacks show you for who you really are..

you called me a liar so you started off the personal attacks..everyone already has the right to work its just that some are a lot more employable than others..a lot of that is down to attitude..you seem to have a bad one..the scheme worked extremely well for the person involved..there are plenty of people sitting on the dole for 12 or more months who would love to get out and back into the workplace even if its only to pad out the CV and to get back into the rhythm of going to work everyday..of course there is going to be some employers who are going to abuse it but that's the way the world is..I take it you enjoy sitting at home all day trolling around the Web complaining about how you have been dealt such a raw deal..well have fun..

hondasam

whatdoicare wrote: »

Because people on the dole aren't criminals and there are already people being paid to so this, I would imagine.

Yes people on fas schemes get paid a little extra to do these jobs.

christmas2012

what do you work for FAS or something why take critisism of these schemes so bitterly?and its not just one person thats been dealt a RAW DEAL,ALL THE UNEMPLOYED OF IRELAND HAVE BEEN DEALT A RAW DEAL..These inept schemes occupy what could have been a paid job..sucking jobs out of the community they walk into proporiting to help..I find the whole thing so false and patronising..

hondasam

christmas2012 wrote: »

enjoy the dole?i have for your information done one of these schemes,and pointed out that they are abused,if the mass unemployed turned around and said stick your free labour scheme where the sun dont shine,and joined the right to work initiative,we would be in a stronger position as jobseekers...

youre attitude,and personal attacks show you for who you really are..

I have to agree with you, I'm not a fan of this cheap labour and some companies exploiting people. I'm sure it has worked or a small minority but it's still cheap labour.

Kalel

christmas2012 wrote: »

what do you work for FAS or something why take critisism of these schemes so bitterly?

Nope in the private sector..not taking criticism of the scheme bitterly just your response to a positive outcome from the scheme..

christmas2012

why defend schemes that take jobs out of communities so staunchly so?

forfuxsake

mattjack wrote: »

Were you looking down from your Ivory Tower ?

Not at all. I don't look down on anyone*but these people looked fúckin' scary. They kinda guys that if you found them in bed with your wife, you'd offer to tuck them in.:eek:















*Except those who drive anything later than a 0910, shop in Aldi or Lidl or clean theirown homes.

Kalel

christmas2012 wrote: »

why defend schemes that take jobs out of communities so staunchly so?

in my experience they created one and are helping loads of others..just because some employers are taking the Mick it doesn't mean that all are..as an earlier poster said certain companies need to have their membership of the scheme reviewed..that doesn't mean it should be scrapped, just managed better..

Jester252

whatdoicare wrote: »

Because people on the dole aren't criminals and there are already people being paid to so this, I would imagine.

Yes because the people that are being paid are doing such a good job at cleaning up the litter and keeping parks nice and tidy.
I don't see how asking somebody who on the dole to do some work means that they are a criminal.

whatdoicare

Jester252 wrote: »

Yes because the people that are being paid are doing such a good job at cleaning up the litter and keeping parks nice and tidy.
I don't see how asking somebody who on the dole to do some work means that they are a criminal.

If you don't get why it would be like being treated like a criminal to do forced labour for money you've already paid into in prsi then I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you.

hondasam

whatdoicare wrote: »

If you don't get why it would be like being treated like a criminal to do forced labour for money you've already paid into in prsi then I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you.

What about the people who never paid prsi or tax? can we ask them to do a little bit of work for their money?
Treated like a criminal is a bit OTT.

mattjack

whatdoicare wrote: »

If you don't get why it would be like being treated like a criminal to do forced labour for money you've already paid into in prsi then I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you.

Are you serious ?

Sorry misread post.

whatdoicare

hondasam wrote: »

What about the people who never paid prsi or tax? can we ask them to do a little bit of work for their money?
Treated like a criminal is a bit OTT.

NO. All you'll do there is create anger amongst our young who were unlucky enough not to have gotten a job after college. Being on the dole is not a crime and being unlucky enough to not be in employment is not a crime. If people want to help out in their community they will do so themselves - they don't need anyone to force them into it.

hondasam

whatdoicare wrote: »

NO. All you'll do there is create anger amongst our young who were unlucky enough not to have gotten a job after college. Being on the dole is not a crime and being unlucky enough to not be in employment is not a crime. If people want to help out in their community they will do so themselves - they don't need anyone to force them into it.

I think these schemes are for long term unemployed and not someone who has just lost their job.
If what I hear is true people are very eager to go on fas schemes. I don't see it as forcing people into working for nothing.

whatdoicare

hondasam wrote: »

I think these schemes are for long term unemployed and not someone who has just lost their job.
If what I hear is true people are very eager to go on fas schemes. I don't see it as forcing people into working for nothing.

The person I was replying to wasn't talking about a fas scheme - have a read back through the posts there. I have no problem with people signing up to fas schemes.

up for anything

Uriel. wrote: »

Yeah and on that... I have had plenty of guts coming into me. Track suit on, one hand down the front of their trousers, cigarette in mouth...

"how ya buuuuud, any jobs goin'?" (ME: "NO"). "Grand will ye sign me form"

On a few occasions I have said, "Yeah can you give me your CV" - guys grunts, turns around and walks out.

On one occasion after asking the guy to come back with a CV and I'd give him an interview he says "Fnuck that, I wouldn't work in this sh1thole anyway".

In my experience there are plenty of people who have no interest in working, even during the celtic tiger years, they are not suffering from an disability except for laziness and are only interested in being an anchor on society.

Filling out a form is not the best welfare fraud check in this instance.

I'm a bit mystified by this! Have you job vacancies available or would you be fraudulently interviewing these track suited gentlemen?

christmas2012

both are free slave labour schemes - anybody that signs up is contributing to the mass unemployment drive..

Sitec

christmas2012 wrote: »

both are free slave labour schemes - anybody that signs up is contributing to the mass unemployment drive..

Or want to get experience and better their CV in order to get a job.

christmas2012

jobs dont get advertised as paid jobs because of these schemes so what your saying doesnt make sense ie there will be no jobs with these job blockers about..

christmas2012

ok ill tell you i seen certain positions i have done in the past and would qualify for,being advertised as ce rates,which means its a non payer,does this not constitute job blocking??

Sitec

That's the employers fault not the person takes the unpaid job.

SimonLynch

This seems to be for the losers that make it their life to be on the dole. All they need to do is look at their records,

There's 4 like that in my old local in Dublin, known as the scholars due to the amount of reading they do and opinions they proffer. Any of them would be a liability to any business and should be kept out of the workplace, they'd intentionally cause havoc whilst playing dumb. Give jobs to those that want them, concentrate on the scholars whem we're in 'full employment'

Motorist

Kirby wrote: »

They still do this. You have to fill out a form every six months or so and provide written proof of failed applications, interviews etc.

.

A few months ago a lad called into work with a form asking us to sign he had tried to get a job. I told him why didn't he drop in his CV or get onto HR. He got very irate and said he just wanted the form signed for his dole.