Time limit for dole?

christmas2012

not everyone on the dole is like that ,there are a lot of consciencous people out there who are diligently looking for work,and to their dissapointment see ''ce scheme'' and ''ce rates'' or intern attached to it!

its a fvcuking disgrace it should be illegal to job block,its ruining the economy and perpetuating unemployment..

mattjack

christmas2012 wrote: »

ok ill tell you i seen certain positions i have done in the past and would qualify for,being advertised as ce rates,which means its a non payer,does this not constitute job blocking??

If you keep posting at the rate you're posting , you are on target for about 7000+ posts this year, should look great on a CV for a prospective employer.

solerina

Jester252 wrote: »

I don't see why they don't use people on the dole to improve the local area

I totally agree, we have schools, hospitals,community centres etc which are in bad need of repair/painting/revamp and we have thousands of people on the dole who would love to have someting to do during the day.

We have public parks, flower beds etc that could definately do with some TLC....and again people who could do it and would probably like to do it on the dole.

I do think the very long term unemployed who didnt work when there were jobs deserve no ones sympathy and should have their benefits cut and their dole reduced to the basic minimum amount needed to live (maybe give food/fuel vouchers etc)

woodoo

It makes perfect sense to put an end to the dole for life system we have here. I know people i went to school with back in the 90's who have been on the dole since they left school. They are entitled to the same payment as one of the recently unemployed. Which is scandalous. People can end up getting comfortable and basing their life around their welfare payments. Working a few hours on the sly etc.

In Germany and many other countries in the Eu people get a decent welfare payment for a while then they drop to something like €365 per month.

If you haven't got a job after a few years in normal times then you really should be given the bare minimum or food vouchers.

Motorist

I know a man who went on the dole in 1983 when he was relatively young. He has been on it ever since and brought up a family of four. He has also had the council build a house for him which he now lives in. He can be found most evenings in the local pub or walking from the local shop with a 6 pack of beer in his hand.

Any system that allows someone like him to be on welfare for nearly 30 years in a row is seriously flawed.

bonzos

Everyday bookies shops up and down the country are full of people gambling...alot of this SW money. The gov have their heads in the sand over this issue,at least the should tax betting to draw back some of this money.

TeddyTedson

There's always going to be that 4% who can't work or perhaps don't want to. Obviously the ones choosing not to work are screwing over the system and it needs to change, but it's very unfair with the way things are at the moment to be out to get the least well off people in society. I'm a lot happier knowing my tax money is going to a family who are struggling rather than bond holders.

mattjack

solerina wrote: »

I totally agree, we have schools, hospitals,community centres etc which are in bad need of repair/painting/revamp and we have thousands of people on the dole who would love to have someting to do during the day.

We have public parks, flower beds etc that could definately do with some TLC....and again people who could do it and would probably like to do it on the dole.

I do think the very long term unemployed who didnt work when there were jobs deserve no ones sympathy and should have their benefits cut and their dole reduced to the basic minimum amount needed to live (maybe give food/fuel vouchers etc)

Yeah , I could see unemployed teachers and nurses loving revamping schools and hospitals or maybe we could get unemployed call centre staff to rewire community centres.

christmas2012

This attitude of persecute the unemployed instead of helping them is also whats wrong with this country,thats why there have been so many problems with FAS,that scheme was seen as a joke and still is..community work shouldnt mean job blocking,on the job exploitation and abuse..

solerina

mattjack wrote: »

Yeah , I could see unemployed teachers and nurses loving revamping schools and hospitals or maybe we could get unemployed call centre staff to rewire community centres.

Obviously the unemployed person should be suited to the job, so teachers could be used in adult education centres to teach people who want to sit/resit their leaving, improve their literacy/help out their children with homework etc.

carfiosaoorl

solerina wrote: »

Obviously the unemployed person should be suited to the job, so teachers could be used in adult education centres to teach people who want to sit/resit their leaving, improve their literacy/help out their children with homework etc.

So out of interest where would you send all of the "longterm unemployed, tracksuit wearing, bag of cans carrying people" ?

fianna saor

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

So out of interest where would you send all of the "longterm unemployed, tracksuit wearing, bag of cans carrying people" ?

yes thats very helpful thanks for the input:rolleyes:

i get the impression some people think that everyone on the dole are scroungers etc. which is most definitely not the case especially in the current climate. therefore i wouldnt really agree with the suggestion of putting them to work in the community, its nearly like community service which boils down to punishing people who have lost their job. im all for getting people off the dole as per my earlier suggestion of reducing the dole the longer you remain on it. and to help with the other suggestion of helping the communities why not get people who are behind bars to get that work done it costs the country to keep someone in prison so why not let them work their debt it could save the country millions.

toexpress

I think this is a great idea and one I have supported for some time.

I have seen it time and again where I live with people who have been on the dole since long before the collapse of the economy they refuse to get off their backsides because it's just easier. I have previously spoken about someone who lived in the house beside mine who has been on social welfare for years simply from laziness and now her daughter is doing the same, the apple is falling not to far from that tree.

In regards to calling the internship scheme rubbish, I think this is unfair, for those who have been affected by the issues surrounding the unemployment issue in the country it can be a great way to give them a confidence boost to get back into the work place. The longer you are out of it the harder it is to get back in there, like riding a bike and falling off. If it achieves that much then it is a worthwhile exercise.

So really after a year should the dole not be cut and see just how long someone sits around bemoaning their circumstances? It's a Gotterdammerung

fianna saor

toexpress wrote: »

I think this is a great idea and one I have supported for some time.

I have seen it time and again where I live with people who have been on the dole since long before the collapse of the economy they refuse to get off their backsides because it's just easier. I have previously spoken about someone who lived in the house beside mine who has been on social welfare for years simply from laziness and now her daughter is doing the same, the apple is falling not to far from that tree.

In regards to calling the internship scheme rubbish, I think this is unfair, for those who have been affected by the issues surrounding the unemployment issue in the country it can be a great way to give them a confidence boost to get back into the work place. The longer you are out of it the harder it is to get back in there, like riding a bike and falling off. If it achieves that much then it is a worthwhile exercise.

So really after a year should the dole not be cut and see just how long someone sits around bemoaning their circumstances? It's a Gotterdammerung

i dont think id just cut it straight off if it were a gradual decrease people would start feling the pinch more and more and they would be under no illusions whats ahead of them if they didnt get up off their arse

toexpress

fianna saor wrote: »

i dont think id just cut it straight off if it were a gradual decrease people would start feling the pinch more and more and they would be under no illusions whats ahead of them if they didnt get up off their arse

I am not suggesting cutting it entirely I would suggest a 50% cut to start and then incremental there after. I don't want people to starve I just don't want them spending my tax money on cheap Vodka in the nearest Aldi

fianna saor

toexpress wrote: »

I am not suggesting cutting it entirely I would suggest a 50% cut to start and then incremental there after. I don't want people to starve I just don't want them spending my tax money on cheap Vodka in the nearest Aldi

apologies i took it up wrong.

i have heard the argument of crime spiralling due to this decrease but surely some of the millions saved would go towards policing.

toexpress

fianna saor wrote: »

apologies i took it up wrong.

i have heard the argument of crime spiralling due to this decrease but surely some of the millions saved would go towards policing.

If we re-open Spike Island ... just a suggestion

fianna saor

toexpress wrote: »

If we re-open Spike Island ... just a suggestion

very good suggestion at that, ive long thought why it hasnt been modified and reopened all the wastage that has been this thornton hall project.

MagicSean

fianna saor wrote: »

apologies i took it up wrong.

i have heard the argument of crime spiralling due to this decrease but surely some of the millions saved would go towards policing.

None of the money saved so far has.

carfiosaoorl

fianna saor wrote: »

yes thats very helpful thanks for the input:rolleyes:

i get the impression some people think that everyone on the dole are scroungers etc. which is most definitely not the case especially in the current climate. therefore i wouldnt really agree with the suggestion of putting them to work in the community, its nearly like community service which boils down to punishing people who have lost their job. im all for getting people off the dole as per my earlier suggestion of reducing the dole the longer you remain on it. and to help with the other suggestion of helping the communities why not get people who are behind bars to get that work done it costs the country to keep someone in prison so why not let them work their debt it could save the country millions.

My post was made tongue in cheek. I don't agree with making people work for their welfare payments. As for reducing peoples dole until they leave the register what do you suggest we do with people who are unemployable? Also are you seriously suggesting that we take criminals out of prison to fix/repair our schools and hospitals. Something tells me they wouldnt pass the garda vetting

fianna saor

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

My post was made tongue in cheek. I don't agree with making people work for their welfare payments. As for reducing peoples dole until they leave the register what do you suggest we do with people who are unemployable? Also are you seriously suggesting that we take criminals out of prison to fix/repair our schools and hospitals. Something tells me they wouldnt pass the garda vetting

ok firstly there are people who are unemployable as you mentioned, if this idea brought down the numbers significantly then it would easier for the inspectors etc to deal with cases individually. and the genuinely unemployable will be catered for. and secondly i wasnt specifically refering to schools and hospitals i more had in mind say the likes of the labour work involved in building new roads and motorways etc and even the maintenance of them afterwards, and cleaning of graffiti and litter etc. and general stuff like that.

forfuxsake

1. cut the dole or introduce time limit
2. People on the dole spend less money.
3. Shops and businesses let staff go as they are not taking in the same money.
4. Newly unemployed spend less money as they are no longer working.
5. Shops and businesses let staff go as they are not taking in the same money.
6. Unemployment obviously increases.
7.Newly unemployed spend less money as they are no longer working.
8.Shops and businesses let staff go as they are not as busy before dole was cut
9. Unemloyment increases


etc, etc, etc

Also:
crime will increase.
tax intake (VAT and Income tax and PRSI/USC)will decrease drastically as more people become unemployed.

THIS IS WHY THE TROIKA HAVE NOT MADE US SLASH THE DOLE TO BITS.

solerina

carfiosaoorl wrote: »

So out of interest where would you send all of the "longterm unemployed, tracksuit wearing, bag of cans carrying people" ?

The long term unemployed (those unemployed when there were jobs to be had, not those wholost their jobs in recent years) dont want to work so I wouldnt 'send them' anywhere...I would reduced their payments to the bare minimum and I really like the idea of food/fuel vouchers, enough to get by on but not to have luxuries (drink,cigarettes, cable TV, etc)....make it attractive to get off the dole....(or to at least try to,which many dont).

seriouslysweet

Why not do as Poland does and reduce it after 6 months and again after another 6...

The Radiator

yeah

Jesus Wept

seriouslysweet wrote: »

Why not do as Poland does and reduce it after 6 months and again after another 6...

May as well run buses to the airport in that case.

mattjack

solerina wrote: »

The long term unemployed (those unemployed when there were jobs to be had, not those wholost their jobs in recent years) dont want to work so I wouldnt 'send them' anywhere...I would reduced their payments to the bare minimum and I really like the idea of food/fuel vouchers, enough to get by on but not to have luxuries (drink,cigarettes, cable TV, etc)....make it attractive to get off the dole....(or to at least try to,which many dont).

Which could create a disenfranchised underclass, a lower class of unemployed, with practically no means at all .

christmas2012

forfuxsake wrote: »

1. cut the dole or introduce time limit
2. People on the dole spend less money.
3. Shops and businesses let staff go as they are not taking in the same money.
4. Newly unemployed spend less money as they are no longer working.
5. Shops and businesses let staff go as they are not taking in the same money.
6. Unemployment obviously increases.
7.Newly unemployed spend less money as they are no longer working.
8.Shops and businesses let staff go as they are not as busy before dole was cut
9. Unemloyment increases


etc, etc, etc

Also:
crime will increase.
tax intake (VAT and Income tax and PRSI/USC)will decrease drastically as more people become unemployed.

THIS IS WHY THE TROIKA HAVE NOT MADE US SLASH THE DOLE TO BITS.

While their at it,they could slash fas and jobbridge to bits as they have schemes that perpetuate unemployment..

christmas2012

and you cant just kick someone off the dole esp if they have no other means of income its in breach of human rights

what about those tax evaders costing us all money by not paying their share while everyone else is lumped with tax bills left,right and centre?

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

and you cant just kick someone off the dole esp if they have no other means of income its in breach of human rights

what about those tax evaders costing us all money by not paying their share while everyone else is lumped with tax bills left,right and centre?

Bullsh1te. Human rights me hole.

Perhaps you think that the UN should have pulled some of their people out of South Sudan and deployed them to Ireland when the dole was cut for U25s?

christmas2012

Im not talking about sudan or the UN thats a different matter,im talking about ireland and those who have no other means of income

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

Im not talking about sudan or the UN thats a different matter,im talking about ireland and those who have no other means of income

Nope, you said it was in breach of human rights to cut dole from it's present level. It's usually the UN who are called in when people's Human Rights are violated.

Cop on to yourself. Dole is not a bleedin' "human right". To say so, shows a huge lack of respect to the millions of people around the world who suffer huge injustices and genuine violations of basic needs on a daily basis.

What else is on your list of human rights? Flat screen TVs and iphones?

fianna saor

christmas2012 wrote: »

Im not talking about sudan or the UN thats a different matter,im talking about ireland and those who have no other means of income

isnt that the idea... for them to get up and get another means of income

christmas2012

To live in poverty with no other means of income and you are suggesting to just KICK PEOPLE OFF THE DOLE..That is a breach of someones right to life,how are they going to live with no source no supplement,how are they going to feed themselves or their family?
Im not talking about sudan or those millions dying of starvation,is that what you see for ireland by kicking people off the dole?is it?its not all flat screens and iphones you know being on the dole..

christmas2012

fianna saor wrote: »

isnt that the idea... for them to get up and get another means of income

all very well but where are the jobs out there,for those unemployed people..

14% unemployed in ireland,and not out of choice either..

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

To live in poverty with no other means of income and you are suggesting to just KICK PEOPLE OFF THE DOLE..That is a breach of someones right to life,how are they going to live with no source no supplement,how are they going to feed themselves or their family?
Im not talking about sudan or those millions dying of starvation,is that what you see for ireland by kicking people off the dole?is it?its not all flat screens and iphones you know being on the dole..

You belittle those starving people by placing the "atrocity" of maybe cutting dole (after a length of time) on a par with their suffering.

As I said, Human Rights me hole

IrishAm

christmas2012 wrote: »

To live in poverty with no other means of income and you are suggesting to just KICK PEOPLE OFF THE DOLE..That is a breach of someones right to life,how are they going to live with no source no supplement

Ask the self employed whose businesses failed. They arent entitled to a shiny cent. :mad:

christmas2012

i agree there should be some provision for those who have entreprenurial spirit and have fallen into hard times..i think the whole system is unfair,and internship schemes that perpetuate unemployment should be scrapped,there should be a better jobs programme in place for both employer and employee,not this intern sh1t of training to wipe tables and not get taken on,its exploitation.
I think to kick someone off the dole is just inhumane,there are 14% out there recently unemployed also,who are unemployed not out of choice.
Just like those business people who have fallen on hard times,i think it should be a right for business people to avail of some supplementary allowance while in debt/struggling..

fianna saor

christmas2012 wrote: »

all very well but where are the jobs out there,for those unemployed people..

14% unemployed in ireland,and not out of choice either..

well just in case you havent come across any of my posts before, i would lean towards anti immigration, theres a few.....

do you really believe that all 14% are not on it by choice? :eek:

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

i agree there should be some provision for those who have entreprenurial spirit and have fallen into hard times..i think the whole system is unfair,and internship schemes that perpetuate unemployment should be scrapped,there should be a better jobs programme in place for both employer and employee,not this intern sh1t of training to wipe tables and not get taken on,its exploitation.
I think to kick someone off the dole is just inhumane,there are 14% out there recently unemployed also,who are unemployed not out of choice.
Just like those business people who have fallen on hard times,i think it should be a right for business people to avail of some supplementary allowance while in debt/struggling..

Yeah, damn straight Christmas. Who do they think you are wanting you to demean yourself wiping tables. Sure everyone knows that wiping tables is only a good job for foreigners. You are far far above that.

forfuxsake

yore wrote: »

Yeah, damn straight Christmas. Who do they think you are wanting you to demean yourself wiping tables. Sure everyone knows that wiping tables is only a good job for foreigners. You are far far above that.

He didn't deem it demeaning, he implied it doesn't require a lot of training to learn to wipe a table. It doesn't.

He didn't mention foreigners. You did.

Says a lot more about you than him.:pac::pac:

IrishAm

yore wrote: »

Yeah, damn straight Christmas. Who do they think you are wanting you to demean yourself wiping tables. Sure everyone knows that wiping tables is only a good job for foreigners. You are far far above that.

One needs to train for free to learn how to wipe down a table now?

Hows the family farm btw?:)

yore

forfuxsake wrote: »

He didn't deem it demeaning, he implied it doesn't require a lot of training to learn to wipe a table. It doesn't.

He didn't mention foreigners. You did.

Says a lot more about you than him.:pac::pac:

Are you another one who thinks themselves above any manual labour for no apparent reason. With nothing to back it up other than a deluded sense of superiority

yore

IrishAm wrote: »

One needs to train for free to learn how to wipe down a table now?

Hows the family farm btw?:)

What drugs are you on? Where are you going with you family farm??? It'd do you no harm to get off your arse and do a bit of manual labour. whether it be sweeping the street or , seeing as you mentioned it, working on a farm.

christmas2012

yore wrote: »

Yeah, damn straight Christmas. Who do they think you are wanting you to demean yourself wiping tables. Sure everyone knows that wiping tables is only a good job for foreigners. You are far far above that.

First off you dont even know me,i never said i was above wiping tables or that foreigners should do it..I never said i was far far above that..

I have done waitressing in the past,as a paid employee
,i have done a few different jobs worked in petrol stations,everywhere,its not below me at all,ive done a FAS scheme too,what some would consider to be free labour abuse,i done that too,im open to most things and dont think its below me.

Your remarks are highly presumpteuous..

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

First off you dont even know me,i never said i was above wiping tables or that foreigners should do it..I never said i was far far above that..

I have done waitressing in the past,as a paid employee
,i have done a few different jobs worked in petrol stations,everywhere,its not below me at all,ive done a FAS scheme too,what some would consider to be free labour abuse,i done that too,im open to most things and dont think its below me.

Your remarks are highly presumptous..

Bullsh1te. There's nothing wrong with a job wiping tables. Every single food place/restaurant/pub has people doing that. Tables don't clean themsleves

Even if it was an internship, you are getting paid for it. 250 euro (approx). Not 50 Euro. 250. that 200 dole is not your "Human right".

christmas2012

so what would you suggest kick people off the dole who have no other source of income?
i never said there was anything wrong with wiping tables,but a jobbridge scheme attached spells free labour abuse,it has it written all over it

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

so what would you suggest kick people off the dole who have no other source of income?
i never said there was anything wrong with wiping tables,but a jobbridge scheme attached spells free labour abuse,it has it written all over it

Nothing wrong with it at all? Yep, that's why you used it as an example to prove a point in a post.

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

so what would you suggest kick people off the dole who have no other source of income?
i never said there was anything wrong with wiping tables,but a jobbridge scheme attached spells free labour abuse,it has it written all over it

Oh, and to answer your question, that 250 on the jobsbridge that you look down your nose at, or the minimum wage job wiping those tables, might look a lot more tempting if your dole was halved after 2 years

christmas2012

there are plenty of people on the dole looking for jobs getting a constant stream of rejection letters,are you suggesting to cut these peoples dole?