House now at affordable levels!

Stavro Mueller

Any chance this guy gets, he likes to post about public sector pay :rolleyes: This thread'll just go the way of all the others where he has stirred things up.

ionapaul

Interesting thread on this over in the propertypin - interesting post on what we have been discussing: http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42883&start=33

I'm certain that prices are coming down and will continue to fall across all sectors of the property market, by the way, just am wary of people fooling themselves into thinking a single person on salary of €40k or so will ever been able to buy a family home in a 'sought-after' south Dublin suburb - I really have my doubts about that! (though I truly wish it could be so, as I'd snap one up myself) There will always be a level of demand from professional couples, of which there must be a good few hundred in Dublin (for example, my brother and his girlfriend are both solicitors, both renting, might be interested in buying a few years when both are in their 30s, and already would have a combined annual income in the six figures - many of their friends would be in similar circumstances), and those are the types that will determine where the bottom of the market lies for the 'decent family homes' that everyone is after, not the singletons on average salaries!

Theboinkmaster

Sand Wedge wrote: »

Article in todays independent.ie claiming houses are now at affordable levels in Ireland. Can anyone tell me were you can buy one of these supposed houses that cost only 3.4 times the average salary in Dublin. Based on average salary of €40k(which is a high estimate). Where can you buy a house for €136k?


http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/house-prices-now-at-affordable-level-for-average-earners-2997199.html

Why would you bother paying any attention to anything the Irish Independent prints on property prices.

Vested interest - ignore.

P. Breathnach

ionapaul wrote: »

... those are the types that will determine where the bottom of the market lies for the 'decent family homes' that everyone is after, not the singletons on average salaries!

The important point here is the recognition that the housing market is not homogeneous. It has been the case for decades that good quality semi-detached houses in the more desirable Dublin neighbourhoods have been out of the reach of purchasers on average incomes.

gigino

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The important point here is the recognition that the housing market is not homogeneous. It has been the case for decades that good quality semi-detached houses in the more desirable Dublin neighbourhoods have been out of the reach of purchasers on average incomes.

thats the case the world over. Better quality houses in the better areas tend to be out of the reach of poorer sections of the population. If you go to any other capital city , houses in the "more desirable" neighbourhoods are also out of the reach of purchasers on "average incomes."
Having said that, if we take average public sector salary as 48k, which it is, then its not unreasonable to assume a couple ( eg clerical officer / fireman / guard / nurse / public servant / civil servant ) pulling in 96k a year between them. There are 91 houses on daft.ie in south Dublin alone which are under 200k, which is only 2 years gross wages. Thats compares very favourably with other capital cities. In Japan people commute for hour(s) on high speed trains and would probably settle for the commute from the 2 bedroom new apartment in Longford, which @ 29k is only 30 weeks gross pay.

The_Conductor

gigino wrote: »

Having said that, if we take average public sector salary as 48k, which it is, then its not unreasonable to assume a couple ( eg clerical officer / fireman / guard / nurse / public servant / civil servant ) pulling in 96k a year between them. There are 91 houses on daft.ie in south Dublin alone which are under 200k, which is only 2 years gross wages. Thats compares very favourably with other capital cities. In Japan people commute for hour(s) on high speed trains and would probably settle for the commute from the 2 bedroom new apartment in Longford, which @ 29k is only 30 weeks gross pay.

First off- once again we have your pre-occupation with public sector employees. Why do you imagine that this group of people represent the average person living in South Dublin- quite simply they don't. Further why are continuing to refer to a couple grossing 96k- I though we had firmly put that to bed- there are damn few couples out there grossing 96k in the current environment.

Next- have you actually looked at the 91 houses in South Dublin at under 200k? South Dublin helpfully includes Tallaght and its environs (no disrespect to any of the people living in Tallaght- but its hardly considered to be as desireable an area as D4, D6 etc........(which is what most of us here were talking about. If you put D4 and D6 in DAFT with a max price of 200k- you find 1 house and 3 houses respectively (and the 200k asking price is nothing compared to the renovations these disasters need).

What does Japanese people on high speed trains have to do with the folk who live in Longford? Not a lot in my opinion. Sure we have trains- however to compare them to the feats of engineering the Japanese Maglev trains constitute is the best joke I've heard in a while.

You're back to harping on about what you consider to be average public sector salaries with your 29k for a 2 bed shoebox apartment in Longford........ I'm beginning to go blue in the face saying- the reason its price x (29k in this case) is because people don't want to buy the units, plain and simple. They are priced at 29k- because there is no demand for them. It has nothing whatsoever to do with 29k being 30 weeks gross salary for a hypothetical public sector employee- which also happens to be the same 42 week NET income as a single parent with 2 children claiming RA and other entitlements. I don't see you harping on about getting single mothers and the unemployed to move to Longford- which is what you seem to be insisting on harping on about regarding the public sector........ So bloody what that you can buy an apartment in Longford for 29 weeks gross salary- its the most ridiculous argument I have heard in quite some time. If you honestly think they're such good value- why don't you buy up a block and rent them out, or whatever?

gigino

smccarrick wrote: »

there are damn few couples out there grossing 96k in the current environment.

Not too many, but there are some. Average private sector salaries are always going to be subject to debate, but we do know from the government - who pays them - average public sector salary, which is 48k.
Public sector salaries were benchmarked to the private sector. Now you say there are damn all couples out there grossing 96k in the current climate. There are over 30,000 public servants earning over 85k a year without taking their spouses income in to account. Pay in the households in D4 and D6 ( which you mention ) may be higher than you think.

D4 and D6 - the embassy belt - is going to be more expensive than the rest of Ireland .....just as Chelsea, Kensington etc is more expensive than average middle UK ( outside the posher areas of London).

smccarrick wrote: »

You're back to harping on about what you consider to be average public sector salaries with your 29k for a 2 bed shoebox apartment in Longford........ I'm beginning to go blue in the face saying- the reason its price x (29k in this case) is because people don't want to buy the units, plain and simple.

There were too many properties built in the boom - do not forget we were building half as many houses / apartments as the UK, but they have 15 times our population. With all the emigration now, banks not lending etc ...its not surprising apartments and houses are empty. But for people who do want to buy a newly built 2 bedroom apartment, isn't it astonishing one can be bought for only 29 weeks gross ( average p.s. ) pay ? I'll quote average private sector pay if you can come up with a figure for that. I remember an old fellow on the radio saying how his house ( back in the 30's or whenever ) cost 120 pounds or something - but he put that amount in context by saying that was 3 years pay then.

Victor

gigino wrote: »

Not too many, but there are some. Average private sector salaries are always going to be subject to debate, but we do know from the government - who pays them - average public sector salary, which is 48k.

OK, we've heard you. Please move on. People have been trying to tell you to not post / obsess about it any more.

For private sector incomes, please check out the CSO website.

gigino

Victor wrote: »

For private sector incomes, please check out the CSO website.

checked it out, but some would say the reason private sector incomes are much lower is because they are difficult to collect / verify / open to fraud. Nevertheless , even if we accept the cso private sector salary as 31.5k, thats more than some new 2 bed apartments in the country, and new houses can be got for less than double that. Now, if we look at the position in the UK, dwellings are 4 times annual income.

http://www.mortgageguideuk.co.uk/blog/house-prices/house-prices-income/



Therefore its reasonable to assume some houses here are now at affordable levels ? ( The point of this thread )

not even wrong

gigino wrote: »

average public sector salary, which is 48k.

You should read the chapter How To Lie With Statistics that talks about the difference between "average" and "median".

gigino

not even wrong wrote: »

You should read the chapter How To Lie With Statistics that talks about the difference between "average" and "median".

If you are confused, I refer you to www.cso.ie.
Also the dictionary definition may be
av·er·age

   /ˈævərɪdʒ, ˈævrɪdʒ/ Show Spelled [av-er-ij, av-rij] Show IPA noun, adjective, verb, -aged, -ag·ing.
noun 1. a quantity, rating, or the like that represents or approximates an arithmetic mean: Her golf average is in the 90s. My average in science has gone from B to C this semester.

2. a typical amount, rate, degree, etc.; norm.

3. Statistics . arithmetic mean.

4. Mathematics . a quantity intermediate to a set of quantities.

5. Commerce . a. a charge paid by the master of a ship for such services as pilotage or towage.

b. an expense, partial loss, or damage to a ship or cargo.

c. the incidence of such an expense or loss to the owners or their insurers.

d. an equitable apportionment among all the interested parties of such an expense or loss.

Given that internationally prices of new apartments and houses are generally a multiple of years salary ( eg in the UK its 4 years ), does not the fact brand new 2 bedroom apartments ( built to modern government regulations and standards and complying with planning permission etc ) can be bought in a town ( with main line rail links ) for 29k, and new 3 bedroom houses for 49k strike you as a sign property is perhaps not at unaffordable levels in some areas at least ?

The_Conductor

Gigino- consider yourself on a warning- your sarcasm is not appreciated here.

Regards,

SMcCarrick