beef price tracker

Bass Reeves

rangler1 wrote: »

Only one solution , withdraw supplies, until that's done the ''mouthpieces'' are the only ones that are actually doing anything.
When we were trying to thrash out the new National Roads Deal years ago it wasn't a lot of help to us when the NRA were claiming that ''there's deals being done''
Breakeven cost of silage is over €25/bale....plenty being bought at €20 and it's farmers that's the offenders there

Rangler you are always on about the great deal the IFA did on roads. However this was only of benifit to those who's land was effected. As a farming organisation it bread and butter should be what effect ordinary farmers which is beef, lamb, milk etc prices. While the roads deal may have been a gpood deal it is not the raison d'etra for a farm organisation.

Cavanjack wrote: »

I think we have this same conversation every year when prices drop.
What can we do about it? Not very much as individuals but there is a problem in the industry as far as competition goes.
Heard nothing about producer groups this while. Wonder would they be any addition.

Producer group have died a death I am not sure if the legislation has been passed that would allow for there setting up under EU legislation. No point in having producer groups unless processors have to negotiate with them. Look at the AA, He schemes bases price for these schemes are now negotiated locally by the individual farmer. If these were negoiated nationally they would put a base under cattle and if local price was stronger farmer could opt not to send cattle into the scheme

Willfarman wrote: »

Boats boats and more boats! Ship the calves, ship the weanlings ship the fat cattle. It's the only hope we have.

Shipping has an effect but numbers of cattle coming on stream from dairy herd will limit effect of shipping.

patsy_mccabe

Look at the value of sterling now - €1.09. It's heading to parity. It was as high as €1.42 back in Nov 2015. That's some drop. You have to call a spade a spade. Over half of our Beef goes to the UK.

rangler1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Rangler you are always on about the great deal the IFA did on roads. However this was only of benifit to those who's land was effected. As a farming organisation it bread and butter should be what effect ordinary farmers which is beef, lamb, milk etc prices. While the roads deal may have been a gpood deal it is not the raison d'etra for a farm organisation.

I was using it as an example of action taken by the members on the ground not from the top and landowners refusing to accomadate the aquirers until they had negotiated with IFA,
Until beef producers create a similar lever instead of blaming everyone except themselves, nothing will change.
Different circumstances but the basics are still the same.....processors aren't going to bother negotiating a price while the cattle are flooding in the gate ...why would they.

gerryirl

so what you recommend Rangler.. We are caught every way. Age (under 30 months) weight was (cut off 420kg think 450kg now) grading sytem (Fat lean etc)

Keep them and they go over 30 months and start getting fat and over weight. Its a no win situation. You lose both ways. everyone knows the factories have shed loads of cattle to kill themselves if the farmer stops sending

rangler1

gerryirl wrote: »

so what you recommend Rangler.. We are caught every way. Age (under 30 months) weight was (cut off 420kg think 450kg now) grading sytem (Fat lean etc)

Keep them and they go over 30 months and start getting fat and over weight. Its a no win situation. You lose both ways. everyone knows the factories have shed loads of cattle to kill themselves if the farmer stops sending

I'm just saying that blaming someone for doing nothing when in effect there is nothing can be done is a bit immature.
The factories keeping their own cattle really strenghtens their hand and now I hear they're going to do the same with the sheep. get farmers to contract feed lambs for scarce time

Willfarman

rangler1 wrote: »

I'm just saying that blaming someone for doing nothing when in effect there is nothing can be done is a bit immature.
The factories keeping their own cattle really strenghtens their hand and now I hear they're going to do the same with the sheep. get farmers to contract feed lambs for scarce time

I think you are far from having your finger on the pulse regarding the lambs rangler. They they had thousands of lambs on rented catch crops in north wexford last winter and didn't work out as cheap as simply bringing them across from the uk. They aren't bothering this year and word is one Icm associated enterprise is turning its attention to bull beef. Importing 2 thousand bulls from Germany.

rangler1

Willfarman wrote: »

I think you are far from having your finger on the pulse regarding the lambs rangler. They they had thousands of lambs on rented catch crops in north wexford last winter and didn't work out as cheap as simply bringing them across from the uk. They aren't bothering this year and word is one Icm associated enterprise is turning its attention to bull beef. Importing 2 thousand bulls from Germany.

We'll see, you might be very surprised

Danzy

rangler1 wrote: »

I'm just saying that blaming someone for doing nothing when in effect there is nothing can be done is a bit immature.
The factories keeping their own cattle really strenghtens their hand and now I hear they're going to do the same with the sheep. get farmers to contract feed lambs for scarce time

The factories are a cartel, a monopoly, on top of that they are buying from a market where not selling is not an option.

There are currency fluctuations and demand variations and all that but what we are now seeing is an abuse of monopoly.

dzer2

Its pretty simple lads stop paying through the nose for waste of dairy farms.:eek:
Stop bidding each other to death at the ring and drive the ****e out of anything the agents bid on.:D
Only buy small butty cattle that will never be over weight.:rolleyes:
dont buy a heap of meal to fatten them.:o

The only way to make money is sit on your hands and dont spend:D:D:D

Danzy

dzer2 wrote: »

Its pretty simple lads stop paying through the nose for waste of dairy farms.:eek:
Stop bidding each other to death at the ring and drive the ****e out of anything the agents bid on.:D
Only buy small butty cattle that will never be over weight.:rolleyes:
dont buy a heap of meal to fatten them.:o

The only way to make money is sit on your hands and dont spend:D:D:D

Have you tried shooting them as soon as they come home from the Mart?

Tax deductible and the improvement to cash flow is significant.

There are some long term issues to work out I admit.

gerryirl

rangler no need to get personal by calling me immature

Of course there is something that can be done. Its frustrating. We had the half arse block of the factories a couple years ago and not much has changed since that. Farm familys are struggling out there big time. There is only so long it will last

charolais0153

gerryirl wrote: »

rangler no need to get personal by calling me immature

Of course there is something that can be done. Its frustrating. We had the half arse block of the factories a couple years ago and not much has changed since that. Farm familys are struggling out there big time. There is only so long it will last

If they're struggling why don't they try and change something like go into dairy or sheep. Or contract rearing or renting the land?

Willfarman

charolais0153 wrote: »

If they're struggling why don't they try and change something like go into dairy or sheep. Or contract rearing or renting the land?

I don't like getting up early so no one to milk the cows unless I could get a good doley.
I have all the sheep that the neighbours will tolerate.
I don't like I'm too contrary to enter any contract with anyone and if I set the place I'd never get outa bed and most likely die of a combination of alcoholism and chronic masturbation.

No I'll hang on and wait for the cheap stores!

charolais0153

Willfarman wrote: »

I don't like getting up early so no one to milk the cows unless I could get a good doley.
I have all the sheep that the neighbours will tolerate.
I don't like I'm too contrary to enter any contract with anyone and if I set the place I'd never get outa bed and most likely die of a combination of alcoholism and chronic masturbation.

No I'll hang on and wait for the cheap stores!

Aye, are ya struggling though.

Willfarman

charolais0153 wrote: »

Aye, are ya struggling though.

Struggling like pig like these poor aul divils https://amp.independent.ie/business/farming/beef-barons-worth-over-2billion-34475145.html

gerryirl

charolais0153 wrote: »

If they're struggling why don't they try and change something like go into dairy or sheep. Or contract rearing or renting the land?

Dairy setup cost from scratch would be huge money and many men not setup for sheep farming either but yes renting you'd probably make more. There not the answer though long trem

charolais0153

gerryirl wrote: »

Dairy setup cost from scratch would be huge money and many men not setup for sheep farming either but yes renting you'd probably make more. There not the answer though long trem

Well there's absolutely no point complaining when your not willing to stop supplying the factories with cheap cattle when they snap there fingers

If lads were to kill cattle at circa 22-24monrhs three a hell of a lot less meat for the factories to work with and you're not going to have to worry about limits and it's a lot handier have 600kg bullocks than 800kg lads on softer ground,

gerryirl wrote: »

many men not setup for sheep farming

Forgot that anybody that has sheep was automatically set up for them :rolleyes:

rangler1

gerryirl wrote: »

Dairy setup cost from scratch would be huge money and many men not setup for sheep farming either but yes renting you'd probably make more. There not the answer though long trem

Unfortunately it is the answer long term, if you can't produce at the market price you have to change.
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is not the answer long term either

kk.man

Quoted 3.85 for bullocks this week next week 3.80.

Cavanjack

kk.man wrote: »

Quoted 3.85 for bullocks this week next week 3.80.

Was looking back at this time last year it was down to€3.75

kk.man

Cavanjack wrote: »

Was looking back at this time last year it was down to€3.75

After the Galway races they pull cattle prices.

Cavanjack

kk.man wrote: »

After the Galway races they pull cattle prices.

Ah don't start bringing horses into this again 😂

patsy_mccabe

kk.man wrote: »

After the Galway races they pull cattle prices.

So what are you saying? The crap horses end up at the beef plants?

gerryirl

charolais0153 wrote: »

Well there's absolutely no point complaining when your not willing to stop supplying the factories with cheap cattle when they snap there fingers

If lads were to kill cattle at circa 22-24monrhs three a hell of a lot less meat for the factories to work with and you're not going to have to worry about limits and it's a lot handier have 600kg bullocks than 800kg lads on softer ground,


Forgot that anybody that has sheep was automatically set up for them :rolleyes:

can I ask what sort of farming you do ..lol

charolais0153

gerryirl wrote: »

can I ask what sort of farming you do ..lol

Lol a bit of everything sucklers and sheep would be the specialist things kill the odd heifer and bull

blue5000

whelan2 wrote: »

Without getting into a row . I have learnt that p6
doesnot like anyone disagreeing with him. Anyways, anyone sell culls lately? Also 11 year old Angus bull to go too.

Cows 3.30 for Os and 3.55 Rs Don't know about the bull, a lot depends on fat cover.

theaceofspies

Willfarman wrote: »

Struggling like pig like these poor aul divils https://amp.independent.ie/business/farming/beef-barons-worth-over-2billion-34475145.html

The picture of Larry with the briefcase reminds me of Dallas in the 80's and JR argung with Cliff Barnes over 'Cartels'.
All the while the 'Farmers Union' sits on the fence while the charade goes on. Are they still collecting auto levies from Larry & Co?????
If the IFA were as quick to organise an orchestrated campaign among members to withhold animals we may be in a different place. God knows they have enough admin staff to pull it off but something tells me take their own members for bigger idiots than Larry does.

Bigbird1

blue5000 wrote: »

Cows 3.30 for Os and 3.55 Rs Don't know about the bull, a lot depends on fat cover.

Where can 3.55 for Rs be got, best i got was 3.45.

gerryirl

anyway so I decided not to complain about sh1te prices in the factory anymore. Gonna take another shed for the winter and fill it with cattle for killing. Sure what else would you be at..lol

Cavanjack

Nobody has mentioned the lunatics in the marts this spring buying "grass" cattle. Does he take any of the blame for the lack of margin in cattle?

amacca

charolais0153 wrote: »

Forgot that anybody that has sheep was automatically set up for them :rolleyes:

No but they feckin should be.......I'm plagued with a flock of the little white fluffy bastards taking grass off my cattle on an out farm

The lad next to me hasn't a blade of grass growing above about a quarter of an inch high on the plot and is running a big herd of sucklers and flock of sheep on it and most other peoples places around him...I have my place fenced adequately for the cattle I have but Im thinking of grazing his place next spring........

If you have sheep you should fence for them....that should definitely be part of the set up before anyone gets into them imo.....

On the prices thing....isn't the problem partly that farmers are such a disparate group you wouldn't get enough of them withholding cattle for long enough to put a bit of pressure on the processors for a fairer price......some lads just wouldn't toe the line for various (some very understandable and hard to blame them for) reasons.

teddy 1223

Cavanjack wrote:

Nobody has mentioned the lunatics in the marts this spring buying "grass" cattle. Does he take any of the blame for the lack of margin in cattle?

I sold cattle in the mart in april/may, the lads buying them will make nothing out of them. It's the best time to sell cattle

tanko

teddy 1223 wrote: »

I sold cattle in the mart in april/may, the lads buying them will make nothing out of them. It's the best time to sell cattle

May was a good time to sell cattle this year alrite but that isn't guaranteed to happen every year either.
The lads buying them mightn't make much out of them but when you add up all your costs you mightn't have much profit either.

teddy 1223

tanko wrote:

May was a good time to sell cattle this year alrite but that isn't guaranteed to happen every year either. The lads buying them mightn't make much out of them but when you add up all your costs you mightn't have much profit either.

Yeah May is a good time to sell. Grass buyers are mad for cattle, I was making as much in May as I would if I kept the cattle till October

patsy_mccabe

The guys buying April/May do not have the cost of wintering them. A lot of hidden costs their - sheds, labour, machinery wear etc. They still get to claim their single payment too.

teddy 1223

patsy_mccabe wrote:

The guys buying April/May do not have the cost of wintering them. A lot of hidden costs their - sheds, labour, machinery wear etc. They still get to claim their single payment too.

Yeah your right about the no winter cost. I used to sell most in October I now sell 15 of my ch bullocks/hiefers in May, good for cash flow at that time of year

Fireside Solicitor

@ of it. How many cattle would u need to make that???

Fireside Solicitor

Sorry my post didn't finish, the reason he headed building is he was fed up with trying to make a living out of cattle and decided to go give it a try. Rented the land to a sheep man and after six months he said he is much better off but finds it hard to sit lookin out at the place on a summers evening and finding all the things wrong yer man is doing. So I don't know what the answer is. At my age there is no point changing so we will have a full shed again this winter

Bass Reeves

Fireside Solicitor wrote: »

Sorry my post didn't finish, the reason he headed building is he was fed up with trying to make a living out of cattle and decided to go give it a try. Rented the land to a sheep man and after six months he said he is much better off but finds it hard to sit lookin out at the place on a summers evening and finding all the things wrong yer man is doing. So I don't know what the answer is. At my age there is no point changing so we will have a full shed again this winter

For the smaller finisher there is nothing to be made out of finishing cattle out of a shed. Costs are too high and processors will not give a forward contract so that you can calculate profit/loss. No matter what system you use winter finishing costs will vary from 2.2/day(5-6kgs of ration and silage) to 3.5/day (10+kgs of ration and straw). So finishing any animal will cost minimum 220 up to 350 euro. That is feeding costs only add vet, dosing, machinery etc and you are at nothing winter finishing and it add in often to a nitrated issue as well.

Having said that lads that is gone back to buildings may not have been a good enough farmer anyway. He may have bough and handled the wrong stock. It says something about him that he would not rent the shed in case someone made sh!te of it. If it is not dirty it is not making money.

Fireside Solicitor

That's what I said to him about the shed. No point in him keeping that now. He has around 70 acres and not much of a basic payment but enough. He said he was fed up with working for half nothing all the time. In fairness to him he would have been alright and cute enough. I'd say the missus was a big driver in it all but he's not sayin. I was at him to stay at it part time but he didn't want to. A shame young man under forty and giving it up.

The part time boy

Re: the farmer who became a builder and does not want to rent his sheds .

I have cublies for 150 animals and only winter 20 / 30 cattle . I have very little interest in rent them out .

I never say never but it have to be the right person

theaceofspies

Fireside Solicitor wrote: »

That's what I said to him about the shed. No point in him keeping that now. He has around 70 acres and not much of a basic payment but enough. He said he was fed up with working for half nothing all the time. In fairness to him he would have been alright and cute enough. I'd say the missus was a big driver in it all but he's not sayin. I was at him to stay at it part time but he didn't want to. A shame young man under forty and giving it up.

€850 is nice money - at least he knows what his value is.

Cavanjack

Bass Reeves wrote: »

For the smaller finisher there is nothing to be made out of finishing cattle out of a shed. Costs are too high and processors will not give a forward contract so that you can calculate profit/loss. No matter what system you use winter finishing costs will vary from 2.2/day(5-6kgs of ration and silage) to 3.5/day (10+kgs of ration and straw). So finishing any animal will cost minimum 220 up to 350 euro. That is feeding costs only add vet, dosing, machinery etc and you are at nothing winter finishing and it add in often to a nitrated issue as well.

Having said that lads that is gone back to buildings may not have been a good enough farmer anyway. He may have bough and handled the wrong stock. It says something about him that he would not rent the shed in case someone made sh!te of it. If it is not dirty it is not making money.

I've bullocks that'll be coming into the shed round 1st Nov at 600kg. I figure feed them 5kg for 150 days will cost €180 plus silage. I'd be feeding silage anyway and they'll eat less of it when they are getting meal. Winters are fairly long round here and can't see the point of storing for 5 months when another €200 would finish them.
Also Find it easier to feed cattle meal indoors. It's a dangerous and time consuming job doing it outside from this time of the year on. Especially for a working man.
Think I'd be better off with yearlings in their place next summer.

Bass Reeves

Cavanjack wrote: »

Bass Reeves wrote: »

For the smaller finisher there is nothing to be made out of finishing cattle out of a shed. Costs are too high and processors will not give a forward contract so that you can calculate profit/loss. No matter what system you use winter finishing costs will vary from 2.2/day(5-6kgs of ration and silage) to 3.5/day (10+kgs of ration and straw). So finishing any animal will cost minimum 220 up to 350 euro. That is feeding costs only add vet, dosing, machinery etc and you are at nothing winter finishing and it add in often to a nitrated issue as well.

Having said that lads that is gone back to buildings may not have been a good enough farmer anyway. He may have bough and handled the wrong stock. It says something about him that he would not rent the shed in case someone made sh!te of it. If it is not dirty it is not making money.

I've bullocks that'll be coming into the shed round 1st Nov at 600kg. I figure feed them 5kg for 150 days will cost €180 plus silage. I'd be feeding silage anyway and they'll eat less of it when they are getting meal. Winters are fairly long round here and can't see the point of storing for 5 months when another €200 would finish them.
Also Find it easier to feed cattle meal indoors. It's a dangerous and time consuming job doing it outside from this time of the year on. Especially for a working man.
Think I'd be better off with yearlings in their place next summer.

My winter period is about 120 days. I deal with dairy bred stores. What I have found over the years is that if I feed my better stores, theses are usually ones I bought as weanlings or yearlings that I really eat into there profit margin. As well I have to carry replacement for the following years. This tied up ground d for silage and pushes the finishing of stores out later in the year.

These heavier stores are the ones that can be slaughtered early in the year in June and July when the price is usually as strong or better than the winter price. The steers killed during the winter either have to be replaced with expensive yearlings or poorer 2year olds or you have to carry replacements over the winter.

A steer killed in June will kill at least 25 kgs heavier than one fed in a shed with silage and 5 kgs of ration in my situation. Along with a stronger June price this can often leave the animal grossing 150-200 euro more. On silage alone I can carry a 530 kg store over the winter for sub 1 euro/day. This means that this bullock will be wintered for about 110 euro if he was finished he cost at least another 150 euro to finish. From early March to mid June he will cost 50 cent/ day for grass about 50 euro and 33 euro for ration for 8 weeks and a euro to dose in late April. Total cost to finish on grass is 90 euro. However the gross for this bullock goes from 320kgs @ 3.95/kg =1264euro. to 345 kgs@4.1/ kg 1415 euro. Now costs have dropped by 60 euro and gross has increased by 150 euro.

But you need to be getting these bullocks to grass in early March and going to slaughter in mid June. In my case the Friesian bullock killed in the shed was leaving nothing over selling as an autumn store. As well the lighter Friesian bullock that you finished out of the shed would often fail to grade or make QA.

gerryirl

good stuff Base you have your costs covered in great detail. Can you finish an animal in 2 months on grass and meal or you feeding in the shed before letting out as well

Bass Reeves

gerryirl wrote: »

good stuff Base you have your costs covered in great detail. Can you finish an animal in 2 months on grass and meal or you feeding in the shed before letting out as well

They would be out from early March. This year I had these cattle out from the last week in February. That is 11-14 weeks depending on the year. 8 weeks feeding barley, maize and soyahulls 3kgs/day, I am loath to go any higher as you are swopping grass gain costing sub 70-80c/kg for ration based gain at 2.2-2.5/kg LW gain. But if I taught I would beat a price drop I would have no issue feeding another kg or two to get that higher price. This year I am paying 215/ton for that ration mix.

I do not feed any ration in the shed to stores they get silage only. My silage is goodish but generally I try to get it high in dry matter as I find store do better on it and it is cheaper to make.

rangler1

The part time boy wrote: »

Re: the farmer who became a builder and does not want to rent his sheds .

I have cublies for 150 animals and only winter 20 / 30 cattle . I have very little interest in rent them out .

I never say never but it have to be the right person

+1
Slats are wore out here, definitely won't be replacing them to rent out the shed.....never got paid properly for feeding cattle since it was built,
Shed holds 180 cattle

Fireside Solicitor

http://m.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/im-getting-the-same-price-for-my-weanlings-now-as-i-was-getting-back-in-1989-36038895.html

Bass Reeves

Just doing a few maths the general base is 3.85/kg. After the vat rebate the processors are paying less than 3.66/kg of a base in real terms.

Cavanjack

Bass Reeves wrote: »

My winter period is about 120 days. I deal with dairy bred stores. What I have found over the years is that if I feed my better stores, theses are usually ones I bought as weanlings or yearlings that I really eat into there profit margin. As well I have to carry replacement for the following years. This tied up ground d for silage and pushes the finishing of stores out later in the year.

These heavier stores are the ones that can be slaughtered early in the year in June and July when the price is usually as strong or better than the winter price. The steers killed during the winter either have to be replaced with expensive yearlings or poorer 2year olds or you have to carry replacements over the winter.

A steer killed in June will kill at least 25 kgs heavier than one fed in a shed with silage and 5 kgs of ration in my situation. Along with a stronger June price this can often leave the animal grossing 150-200 euro more. On silage alone I can carry a 530 kg store over the winter for sub 1 euro/day. This means that this bullock will be wintered for about 110 euro if he was finished he cost at least another 150 euro to finish. From early March to mid June he will cost 50 cent/ day for grass about 50 euro and 33 euro for ration for 8 weeks and a euro to dose in late April. Total cost to finish on grass is 90 euro. However the gross for this bullock goes from 320kgs @ 3.95/kg =1264euro. to 345 kgs@4.1/ kg 1415 euro. Now costs have dropped by 60 euro and gross has increased by 150 euro.

But you need to be getting these bullocks to grass in early March and going to slaughter in mid June. In my case the Friesian bullock killed in the shed was leaving nothing over selling as an autumn store. As well the lighter Friesian bullock that you finished out of the shed would often fail to grade or make QA.

Good detailed figures as always. Thanks. Food for thought.