beef price tracker

rangler1

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

95% of businesses fail due to poor leadership and lack of management not poor employees. Micheal Donoghue captained Clarinbridge to a county title.......then he managed them to a county title and an all Ireland from nowhere. Now he has brought us to the holy grail last Sunday. This is not a coincidence. It is the top down approach that will make life better for the beef farmer. No matter how efficient us minions are, no matter how hard we individually moan, bitch, protest or fight we will not get results until we have the management in place (IFA) to lead us to the promised land. Why do I say IFA....because that's supposed to be their fcuking job.

Donghue wouldn't be much good if the players didn't bother their ar..s going out on the pitch.
We tried to disrupt slaughtering a couple of years ago but you'd nearly get knocked down on our road by lorries filling the lairage for the other days
What good was that, the price on the days without protest should've been the price demanded not more of the same weak selling.
No wonder processors didn't bother raising price

rangler1

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

In a perfect world you are right. But when we are not taken seriously by our own organisation what leg have we to stand on?

My God, you're doing it again
Did you know BSE stands for Blame Someone Else.
Real farmers are going milking cows now, it's not compulsory to stay feeding beef

charolais0153

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

In a perfect world you are right. But when we are not taken seriously by our own organisation what leg have we to stand on?

Have u ever gone to a protest lr done something productive rather than on i ternet complaing

CloughCasey1

rangler1 wrote: »

My God, you're doing it again
Did you know BSE stands for Blame Someone Else.
Real farmers are going milking cows now, it's not compulsory to stay feeding beef

My God. Will you ever get down from your high brown envelope laden horse. How the fcuk can you keep defending the indefensible??? You must have been well greased up during your days in the IFA. You sicken my hole with your holier than thou attitude.

CloughCasey1

charolais0153 wrote: »

Have u ever gone to a protest lr done something productive rather than on i ternet complaing

Hey now cuz...above anyone here you know well i hardly have time to piss as it is. ☺. I'm not complaining just stating the facts. I'm happy out making a few bob doing something I enjoy.

rangler1

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

My God. Will you ever get down from your high brown envelope laden horse. How the fcuk can you keep defending the indefensible??? You must have been well greased up during your days in the IFA. You sicken my hole with your holier than thou attitude.

Can you not cop on to the fact that there's gonna be no change in pricing structure while processors are getting all the cattle they want at their price, I'm telling you the way it is , I'm not defending anyone.
I often knowingly wasted my time going pleading processors to increase price and they'd drop the price before we got to the gate...you need a dose of the real world.
They're not like the government where you go ''lobbying'' and negotiate some sort of a scheme outa them...eventually.
I used to supply them cattle in the lean periods, december and May and get a good price, but they got around that with their own feedlots, one thing they won't get around is if farmers stop feeding beef, so go milk cows and get over yourself

cute geoge

The extra fr bred cattle in the system is the problem .
This price for beef will only get worse in coming years unless substantial more of these are exported as calves .
The ifa protesting outside factories is only a cod of a carry on ,what ifa need to do is market our calves over in netherlands and the other export destinations ,they then will need to probably subsidize boats to get as much as possible of these surplus calves out of the system.
Even then I still bet larry will come up with some brainwave to stop excessive calf exports but i think there is no other option

CloughCasey1

rangler1 wrote: »

Can you not cop on to the fact that there's gonna be no change in pricing structure while processors are getting all the cattle they want at their price, I'm telling you the way it is , I'm not defending anyone.
I often knowingly wasted my time going pleading processors to increase price and they'd drop the price before we got to the gate...you need a dose of the real world.
They're not like the government where you go ''lobbying'' and negotiate some sort of a scheme outa them...eventually.
I used to supply them cattle in the lean periods, december and May and get a good price, but they got around that with their own feedlots, one thing they won't get around is if farmers stop feeding beef, so go milk cows and get over yourself

The beef barons are one big cartell. They fix the price to suit themselves. They loosen the purse strings when numbers are tight and give a few cent more. They rise the price just before certain age brackets are due so lads put a push to go finishing and just before the majority of the cattle or finished or are due to go overage the whip 40c off the base price and cause a mad rush to sell. The competition authority are useless. We need more pressure from the top down to help beef farmers get a fair price for the top quality product that we produce. The IFA and bord bia are travelling the world trying to promote our grass fed beef but from what I can see they are glorified sales reps for the prossessors and not representing their members.

Willfarman

rangler1 wrote: »

Can you not cop on to the fact that there's gonna be no change in pricing structure while processors are getting all the cattle they want at their price, I'm telling you the way it is , I'm not defending anyone.
I often knowingly wasted my time going pleading processors to increase price and they'd drop the price before we got to the gate...you need a dose of the real world.
They're not like the government where you go ''lobbying'' and negotiate some sort of a scheme outa them...eventually.
I used to supply them cattle in the lean periods, december and May and get a good price, but they got around that with their own feedlots, one thing they won't get around is if farmers stop feeding beef, so go milk cows and get over yourself

Are you at pat smiths gate now pleading with him to settle 1 million rather than his promised 2 million. The creameries are the next crowd of ****ers to replace the beef barons.

Willfarman

https://amp.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/ifa-and-former-chief-pat-smith-may-avoid-court-35514847.html

Never wrestle with pigs

Would it be a mad idea to pull all ifa contributions from marts and instead pay a small levy to a new "export levy"

This levy would go twords the cost of shipping calves. Say a company buys a few thousand calves for export. They would be intitled to draw down a sub for a certain % of the cost of shipping these calves?

Try to make our calves more sellable in a way?

charolais0153

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Would it be a mad idea to pull all ifa contributions from marts and instead pay a small levy to a new "export levy"

This levy would go twords the cost of shipping calves. Say a company buys a few thousand calves for export. They would be intitled to draw down a sub for a certain % of the cost of shipping these calves?

Try to make our calves more sellable in a way?

Iirc dawggone out in france was getting 90 euro cor 3 week old limosin cross calves and they wouldnt have to go on aboat at all so i dont know wouldthat work. Lads couldn't give fr bull calves away a couple of years ago and the shippers mopped up but they cant compete with farmers paying 70 or 80 euro too much just to topup the dairy farmers milk cheque

charolais0153

There are 2 type of weanlings being expoted at present, light heifers charolais and limousins around 300 kg or less to turkey . and e grade heavily muscled belguan blue bulls to italy. Outside of that there isnt much else expoterd. The heifers are too light to make a good margin over cost of keeping cow and there is a fraction of the weanlings in the required e grade to go to italy

rangler1

Willfarman wrote: »

Are you at pat smiths gate now pleading with him to settle 1 million rather than his promised 2 million. The creameries are the next crowd of ****ers to replace the beef barons.

They'd be better if they went to court, It was IFAs pathetic attempt to negotiate his salary in 2009 that started this problem. They should know by now that they're not fit for him.
It was his abilities that turned around the Organisations finances in the 1990s, he should not be underestimated.

CloughCasey1

It was his abilities that turned around the Organisations finances in the 1990s, he should not be underestimated.

Holy mother of Mary.
Let me re-phrase that. It was his ability to extract and con money from farmers in the 90's to boost the IFA coffers so his pockets could be lined with the same funds by ensuring he got a vulgar salary that nobody is worth.

As Willf's link points out. Mr Smith had been paid in excess of €500,000 in 2013, including a base salary of €295,000, a pension contribution of €145,194, and a bonus of €55,000, as well as €35,000 from IFA telecom.

He later brought two legal actions against the organisation, including one seeking orders requiring it to pay him €2m via payments of €1m now and a further €1m over the next 10 years.

All those monopoly figures are coming out of our pockets. But your auld buddy is too cute and smart for the establishment and will and can afford to hire the best legal team our money can buy to ensure that he gets what he "deserves". Don't make me vommit into my cornflakes.

rangler1

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

It was his abilities that turned around the Organisations finances in the 1990s, he should not be underestimated.

Holy mother of Mary.
Let me re-phrase that. It was his ability to extract and con money from farmers in the 90's to boost the IFA coffers so his pockets could be lined with the same funds by ensuring he got a vulgar salary that nobody is worth.

That was his job, that's what he was paid to do. pity the public servants of this country wouldn't be as efficient,
I always got back many times my membership......
Despite your inference on brown envelopes, i wouldn't have drawn 20% of my expenses, so much so that they're still writing to me to send in my expenses claims.
When the whole trouble broke there was €2m in unclaimed expenses so I wasn't the only one

Willfarman

Without trying to make the thread descend into another rangler vs the people case

As far as I'm concerned the ifa are irrelevant ,corrupt ,and totally ineffective in regard to influencing a fair beef price. Simple as that. Is 3.75 the run at the minute?

CloughCasey1

"That was his job, that's what he was paid to do."

I rest my case.

blue5000

OK everybody, remember this is the beef price thread, can we get back on topic now, we've been rambling a bit the last few days.

Putting my farmer hat on now. It's simple really, the extra 100,000 calves born when quotas ended are coming on stream now as they hit thirty months. Factories know this, let's face it and be realistic most of us knew it was coming, it was just a question of when. Throw in a weak pound and a few wet weeks and larry et al trying to fill feedlots and you have a perfect storm.

rangler1

Willfarman wrote: »

Without trying to make the thread descend into another rangler vs the people case

As far as I'm concerned the ifa are irrelevant ,corrupt ,and totally ineffective in regard to influencing a fair beef price. Simple as that. Is 3.75 the run at the minute?

Beef price is the market price, supply and demand is all that'll influence it. Farmers will have to do their sums and reallly question the merit in breaking them selves by giving too much for calves, Dairy farmers are laughing at the calf price, processors are probably amused at the other end and farmers that aren't looking at their costs stuck in the middle. No business person would invest in something that wasn't adding up.
What is the average September price for the last 5 years, Is this years price much below it, Five year average is all you have to base your budget on, basing it on higher than that you might as well go to Paddy power

patsy_mccabe

I wouldn't worry about farmers paying too much for calves and stores. They usually cop on themselves when it hits their pockets. Very cyclic in nature. Up one year and down the next.

locha

Got 3.80 on Monday for cattle booked last week. When there on Monday I said I would have another load this week. Factory said full till Friday and it would be 3.75. I said I'd leave it. Call yesterday eveni g to see if I had a load 3.80 went this morning.

White Clover

locha wrote: »

Got 3.80 on Monday for cattle booked last week. When there on Monday I said I would have another load this week. Factory said full till Friday and it would be 3.75. I said I'd leave it. Call yesterday eveni g to see if I had a load 3.80 went this morning.

Good man. Did you start high enough with your asking price?

cute geoge

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Would it be a mad idea to pull all ifa contributions from marts and instead pay a small levy to a new "export levy"

This levy would go twords the cost of shipping calves. Say a company buys a few thousand calves for export. They would be intitled to draw down a sub for a certain % of the cost of shipping these calves?

Try to make our calves more sellable in a way?

I am thinking this is a great idea
Could we get this message to who ever is in charge of the whole lot of cattle livestock marts is it the icos.
Live exports seem to be the backbone of a lot of marts but at the same time alot of calves are sold direct off farms for export .I think the compulsary tag levy for icbf should have been directed towards export levy instead but of course A.H.I. & dept of ag. know better

yewtree

cute geoge wrote: »

I am thinking this is a great idea
Could we get this message to who ever is in charge of the whole lot of cattle livestock marts is it the icos.
Live exports seem to be the backbone of a lot of marts but at the same time alot of calves are sold direct off farms for export .I think the compulsary tag levy for icbf should have been directed towards export levy instead but of course A.H.I. & dept of ag. know better

Tag levy is to support national breeding programme dont think see the need for it to be used for promoting exports.
Also is that not bord bias job to promote exports ?

rangler1

yewtree wrote: »

Tag levy is to support national breeding programme dont think see the need for it to be used for promoting exports.
Also is that not bord bias job to promote exports ?

Bord Bia would be more promoting food, haven't heard of them involved with live exports

rangler1

charolais0153 wrote: »

Iirc dawggone out in france was getting 90 euro cor 3 week old limosin cross calves and they wouldnt have to go on aboat at all so i dont know wouldthat work. Lads couldn't give fr bull calves away a couple of years ago and the shippers mopped up but they cant compete with farmers paying 70 or 80 euro too much just to topup the dairy farmers milk cheque

Farmers on the one hand pricing exporters outa the market and then blaming someone else for not getting exports.
When you see the smashing french cattle that are being exported into Italian feedlots and after only a stress free overnight lorry trip, you wonder how italians buy any Irish cattle......they feed a lot of bargain basement polish frieisian cattle too.

Willfarman

Neighbour got 3.80 in Slaney today.

patsy_mccabe

Apart from the UK, prices aren't exactly great in Europe. €3.80 in France and €4.00 in Italy. (young R3 Bulls)

http://www.bordbia.ie/industry/farmers/pricetracking/cattle/pages/default.aspx

Cavanjack

Willfarman wrote: »

Neighbour got 3.80 in Slaney today.

Got 3.85 on Tuesday in kepak. (Said 3.80 in an earlier post by mistake). Twenty under 30 months steers.

rangler1

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Apart from the UK, prices aren't exactly great in Europe. €3.80 in France and €4.00 in Italy. (young R3 Bulls)

http://www.bordbia.ie/industry/farmers/pricetracking/cattle/pages/default.aspx

+1
Uk can get cheaper beef any where than here. have to be realistic, we'd be used to it with lamb going to france,

rangler1

Here's the Holy Grail........Farmers who got their finger out and formed producers groups, no legislation required,

http://agriaware.ie/uploads/files/pdfs/capfeatures/week7_cap.pdf

Bass Reeves

Rangler I never said that there was no producer groups at present. Neither do I think that producer groups will solve all the issue relating to beef prices. In reality it is like a war you fight and win battle's where you can. You seem to be an agents provocateur regarding the EU plan on producer groups. I wonder why. As well if the UK wanted cheaper beef it could well get it elsewhere, however it requires traceable steer and heifer beef and the processors state this again and again but you seem to be deaf to this.

Is it that you now see your life in the IFA as a failure. I remember an alter ego of mine posting to an alter ego of your that the IFA was the same most unions nowadays and similar to many organisations where there permanent staff controlled the organization. Pat Smith proved that right. Many saw through this before you and the big fall out.

Maybe you can explain why neither the AA or HE producer groups can no longer negotiate a national base price for these stock on a weekly basis as they previously did. I can because the processors will no longer allow this. Present producer groups for all there smiles are working with one hand tied behind there back.

You seem to want all other who have idea's on what way we should progress to be prevented from voicing there opinions so as not to magnify your and the IFA's failure.

Look at the way the IFA have failed to engage against the processors with the competition authority. Just this week it was published that after the EU CA raid on Irish Insurance companies that the cost of insurance has fallen 14% in as many weeks. Is it that you see that after such legislation that some sweetheart deals will no longer be possible within the beef industry.

Some of you posts latly are showing your true thoughts such as you comment that all serious farmers are now going milking cows. It shows your ignorance of farming outside of a select coterie that you seem to think need to be protected and represented by the IFA.

Beef farming will exist for a long time to come in Ireland. The simple fact is that if we have a dairy industry we will also have a beef industry. People do not go milking cows for numerous reasons such as farm size, quality of land, too small grazing platforms high up front investment and for some they just do not want to milk cows etc etc.

So TBH Rangler I see little point in replying to you posts but you seem intent on spreading misinformation.

Good loser

Willfarman wrote: »

Without trying to make the thread descend into another rangler vs the people case

As far as I'm concerned the ifa are irrelevant ,corrupt ,and totally ineffective in regard to influencing a fair beef price. Simple as that. Is 3.75 the run at the minute?

That's unfair.

I'm 50 years in the cattle business and it's always been supply and demand that determines the price. I remember buying cattle at £5 per cwt. The price now is £75 per cwt. How did that happen? Do people expect prices for cattle to go just one way + + +? If prices go up they have to come down and vice versa - by the laws of supply and demand. Every farmer I know buys his stock as cheaply as he can. Stores have fallen as beef price has come back.

US beef prices have fallen 81c/kg since June and Australian 32c/kg.
In June Irish prices were the highest in EU apart from UK and Sweden.

rangler1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Rangler I never said that there was no producer groups at present. Neither do I think that producer groups will solve all the issue relating to beef prices. In reality it is like a war you fight and win battle's where you can. You seem to be an agents provocateur regarding the EU plan on producer groups. I wonder why. As well if the UK wanted cheaper beef it could well get it elsewhere, however it requires traceable steer and heifer beef and the processors state this again and again but you seem to be deaf to this.

Is it that you now see your life in the IFA as a failure. I remember an alter ego of mine posting to an alter ego of your that the IFA was the same most unions nowadays and similar to many organisations where there permanent staff controlled the organization. Pat Smith proved that right. Many saw through this before you and the big fall out.

Maybe you can explain why neither the AA or HE producer groups can no longer negotiate a national base price for these stock on a weekly basis as they previously did. I can because the processors will no longer allow this. Present producer groups for all there smiles are working with one hand tied behind there back.

You seem to want all other who have idea's on what way we should progress to be prevented from voicing there opinions so as not to magnify your and the IFA's failure.

Look at the way the IFA have failed to engage against the processors with the competition authority. Just this week it was published that after the EU CA raid on Irish Insurance companies that the cost of insurance has fallen 14% in as many weeks. Is it that you see that after such legislation that some sweetheart deals will no longer be possible within the beef industry.

Some of you posts latly are showing your true thinking such as you comment that all serious farmers are now going milking cows. It shows your ignorance of farming outside of a select coterie that you seem to think need to be protected and represented by the IFA.

Beef farming will exist for a long time to come in Ireland. The simple fact is that if we have a dairy industry we will also have a beef industry. People do not go milking cows for numerous reasons such as farm size, quality of land, too small grazing platforms high up front investment and for some they just do not want to milk cows etc etc.

So TBH Rangler I see little point in replying to your posts but you seem intent on spreading misinformation.

I farm sheep, I sell my lambs at the lowest price times of the year, I plan my system for that.
I do not blame anyone only supply and demand for that price, I do not insult my neighbours who are representing me because of that price, I do not sell a lesser quality product because of that price, I do not expect a law to be made to get the teacher to solve a playground row.
Finally I've developed a system where my farm makes a profit, or dare I say a living if I needed it

Bass Reeves

Good loser wrote: »

That's unfair.

I'm 50 years in the cattle business and it's always been supply and demand that determines the price. I remember buying cattle at £5 per cwt. The price now is £150 per cwt. How did that happen? Do people expect prices for cattle to go just one way + + +? If prices go up they have to come down and vice versa - by the laws of supply and demand. Every farmer I know buys his stock as cheaply as he can. Stores have fallen as beef price has come back.

US beef prices have fallen 81c/kg since June and Australian 32c/kg.
In June Irish prices were the highest in EU apart from UK and Sweden.

All of us are aware that prices rise and fall GL. It is pre EU since cattle were 5/cwt. Only young sucklers bred cattle are 3/kg 150/cwt LW. A general LW price for sucklers is in the 2.2-2.6/kg some fall outside that but a minority.

However what some of us see is that over the last 4-5 years the processors have increased there control over the industry. The grading is gone shambolic. Imposition of weight limits and changes in spec in 4-5 week periods. Short term penalizing of cattle to achieve sharp price reductions using age weight, grade and fat score often by what a lot consider is by changing spec on grading machines.

The US price drop is after US beef rose in price from 3/kg to well over 4/kg. It is still about 3.4/kg DW for cattle implanted with hormones in a non traceable system. However grass fed beef with out implants is at a much higher price. You also have to factor in in general AA and HE cattle all grade at least R in the US.

In the same period i general EU beef prices have rises Italy is not well above 4/kg. In real terms using the grading and the Bonus scheme a lot of QA cattle are killing down below the Irish R grade cow price.

darragh_haven

Still being offered only €3.80/kg for bullocks. Had send away a few this morning as they would be over age and fat in a month

gerryirl

where are you getting that price darragh

darragh_haven

gerryirl wrote: »

where are you getting that price darragh

County cork... and i deal with 3 different factories. Can't be more specific as last time i quoted a price a board member caused a world of hassle for me with other factories and agents

Bass Reeves

darragh_haven wrote: »

County cork... and i deal with 3 different factories. Can't be more specific as last time i quoted a price a board member caused a world of hassle for me with other factories and agents

This is an issue I found as well. The world is a small place. Even telling lads ration prices comes back to bite you.

gerryirl

fair enough. fair play to you its all about getting what you can when you can. its everyman for himself now. I weighted cattle this evening. There were not fit 6 weeks a go when I sent the last ones.Hard to put flesh on them. Im sick thinking of what Im down. There near 800kgs U grade cattle. They will still come into to a few pound but they were 4.05 back then

Cavanjack

Anyone buying store heifers and finishing under 30 months? What sort of weights do they come into? R/u types

FeelTheBern

Cavanjack wrote: »

Anyone buying store heifers and finishing under 30 months? What sort of weights do they come into? R/u types

I'd have a few suckler LM x heifers. Would generally average around 340kg DW under 30 months with good swing up and down depending on size. If I was buying think would try to buy Charolais x as think would come into bigger weights but should still be fit for 30 months off grass with bit of meal.

Robson99

Cavanjack wrote: »

Anyone buying store heifers and finishing under 30 months? What sort of weights do they come into? R/u types

Usually average 390 to 400kgs here at 23 to 24 months. 75% various U's 25% R+
All charlaois or limousine. Buy them ave 400 - 420kgs

Cavanjack

Robson99 wrote: »

Usually average 390 to 400kgs here at 23 to 24 months. 75% various U's 25% R+
All charlaois or limousine. Buy them ave 400 - 420kgs

Great weights. What are 16s 400-450kg making in marts now?

Robson99

Cavanjack wrote: »

Great weights. What are 16s 400-450kg making in marts now?

Not sure id imagine between € 1050 and €1100 for u grade continentals

Bass Reeves

gerryirl wrote: »

fair enough. fair play to you its all about getting what you can when you can. its everyman for himself now. I weighted cattle this evening. There were not fit 6 weeks a go when I sent the last ones.Hard to put flesh on them. Im sick thinking of what Im down. There near 800kgs U grade cattle. They will still come into to a few pound but they were 4.05 back then

It is hard to believe that they were not fit 6 weeks ago. What FS were the last ones. No point in feeding for the sake of it. Even if not fit more than likely they be 2+, on the grid for U grade cattle you get the same for 2+ as a 4=. When prices start to drop you should be hanging them as fast as possible

Cavanjack

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is hard to believe that they were not fit 6 weeks ago. What FS were the last ones. No point in feeding for the sake of it. Even if not fit more than likely they be 2+, on the grid for U grade cattle you get the same for 2+ as a 4=. When prices start to drop you should be hanging them as fast as possible

Some I killed lately at 2+ graded r= and r+ was sorry I didn't hold another while as I thought they may have moved up a grade with a little more feeding. Then again would it have paid?

Bass Reeves

Cavanjack wrote: »

Some I killed lately at 2+ graded r= and r+ was sorry I didn't hold another while as I thought they may have moved up a grade with a little more feeding. Then again would it have paid?

Killed an R+ Lm bullock mysel 10 days ago 370kgs 1494 euro, if I had killed 20 days earlier at the same grade he have had to weight nearly 20kgs less before I be out of pocket. Now if you add 70c/day for ration it would be nearly another 4kgs.

Willfarman

The problem is that sending a u grade bullock under finished results in r+ R= 2= or even 2-. Your off the grid and at the mercy of the descretion of the procurement manager. The same principle with good type friesian cattle. O= 3 or even 4 fat score would be p 2 if you haven't them well fattened. The only way to have got out of these cattle a winner before the price went was the mart.