beef price tracker

CHOPS01

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Was that a flat price or a base price. 5 of them were over fat. The should have been killed 8-10 weeks ago and would have made as much money.

My understanding was a flat price.Probably could have gone a few weeks ago but they had big frames so i really didn't think they were that kind of weight.
It's all about experience i guess !

Robson99

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Was that a flat price or a base price. 5 of them were over fat. The should have been killed 8-10 weeks ago and would have made as much money.

Would it take 8-10 weeks to go from 3+/4- up to 4+ ?

kk.man

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Was that a flat price or a base price. 5 of them were over fat. The should have been killed 8-10 weeks ago and would have made as much money.

Robson99 wrote: »

Would it take 8-10 weeks to go from 3+/4- up to 4+ ?

They be no set time frame, it depends on many factors, breed, feed etc. I have a FR atm and he is very slow to move up the fat scores!

CloughCasey1

CHOPS01 wrote: »

My understanding was a flat price.Probably could have gone a few weeks ago but they had big frames so i really didn't think they were that kind of weight.
It's all about experience i guess !

If it was flat price you are ok. You would have lost your bollix on the grid. Fight them for the lower price on the lighter lad. They left you a few quid at that rate. I think what Bass is saying that the last number of weeks they would be only putting on fat which if on the grid would crucify ya and flesh weighs better also. Like i keep telling myself when I step off the scales....muscle is heavier than fat!!

CHOPS01

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

If it was flat price you are ok. You would have lost your bollix on the grid. Fight them for the lower price on the lighter lad. They left you a few quid at that rate. I think what Bass is saying that the last number of weeks they would be only putting on fat which if on the grid would crucify ya and flesh weighs better also. Like i keep telling myself when I step off the scales....muscle is heavier than fat!!

The lighter lad paid 3.80 it was the heavier lads paid 3.75
Will have clarification for the difference in the morning.

Bass Reeves

kk.man wrote: »

Bass is a 4= deemed over fat? (just wondering)

At the grade of O= there is a 6c deduction on the 4= grades half your QA gone. At 4+ you lose QA as well.

Robson99

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

If it was flat price you are ok. You would have lost your bollix on the grid. Fight them for the lower price on the lighter lad. They left you a few quid at that rate. I think what Bass is saying that the last number of weeks they would be only putting on fat which if on the grid would crucify ya and flesh weighs better also. Like i keep telling myself when I step off the scales....muscle is heavier than fat!!

Always like to get them into fat score 4- if I can. I feel that is the point from where feed utilisation starts to reduce from

Bass Reeves

Robson99 wrote: »

Would it take 8-10 weeks to go from 3+/4- up to 4+ ?

A lot of it it is more that these cattle should have gone in at least 2 lots. The heavier very well fleshed cattle could have being slaughted at least 8 week ago.

Robson99

Bass Reeves wrote: »

A lot of it it is more that these cattle should have gone in at least 2 lots. The heavier very well fleshed cattle could have being slaughted at least 8 week ago.

They could but probably 3 weeks ago would have had them all bar 1at the optimum killing point imo

Bass Reeves

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

CHOPS01 wrote: »

My understanding was a flat price.Probably could have gone a few weeks ago but they had big frames so i really didn't think they were that kind of weight.
It's all about experience i guess !

If it was flat price you are ok. You would have lost your bollix on the grid. Fight them for the lower price on the lighter lad. They left you a few quid at that rate. I think what Bass is saying that the last number of weeks they would be only putting on fat which if on the grid would crucify ya and flesh weighs better also. Like i keep telling myself when I step off the scales....muscle is heavier than fat!!

It is more than that they were only putting on fat. You also have the issue with the drop in base and the QA. At a base of 4 euro the last six heavy cattle would all have killed 3=/+ more than likely add QA and the 'R's would have being at 4.12 and the 'O's would being at 3.94/kg. At a guess these cattle were getting 3-4 kg of nuts since then and eating a lot of grass. Over the last 60-70 days did they put on 35-46 kgs of DW and what did it cost 1.3-1.6euro/day. 70-100 euro.

Robson99

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is more than that they were only putting on fat. You also have the issue with the drop in base and the QA. At a base of 4 euro the last six heavy cattle would all have killed 3=/+ more than likely add QA and the 'R's would have being at 4.12 and the 'O's would being at 3.94/kg. At a guess these cattle were getting 3-4 kg of nuts since then and eating a lot of grass. Over the last 60-70 days did they put on 35-46 kgs of DW and what did it cost 1.3-1.6euro/day. 70-100 euro.

The probably went up a grade at least on conformation though which would have been a help

Bass Reeves

Robson99 wrote: »

They could but probably 3 weeks ago would have had them all bar 1at the optimum killing point imo

Robson99 wrote: »

The probably went up a grade at least on conformation though which would have been a help

The optimum killing point IMO is when the profit is highest not any particular fat score. I suspect that these cattle have been fed from mid July, if they had been fed from early/mid June they could have been slaughtered before the autumn glut and achieved the same or a higher profit for chops. As well the grass they eat could have been utilised by stores for to keep them out longer and reduce costs.

Cavanjack

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The optimum killing point IMO is when the profit is highest not any particular fat score. I suspect that these cattle have been fed from mid July, if they had been fed from early/mid June they could have been slaughtered before the autumn glut and achieved the same or a higher profit for chops. As well the grass they eat could have been utilised by stores for to keep them out longer and reduce costs.

It's hard to win. Stores were hard bought 8 weeks ago.

CHOPS01

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The optimum killing point IMO is when the profit is highest not any particular fat score. I suspect that these cattle have been fed from mid July, if they had been fed from early/mid June they could have been slaughtered before the autumn glut and achieved the same or a higher profit for chops. As well the grass they eat could have been utilised by stores for to keep them out longer and reduce costs.

Ah i'm not that foolish.Fed for 3 weeks before they went. First 10 days 3kg of 16% beef nut and 4.5kg for the remaining 10 days.I know in hindsight they probably didn't need it but ground was gone a bit sh1tty and didn't want them going backwards.
Last winter they got plenty of silage and 2.5kg of a mix of the same beef nut and rolled barley from about December 1st to to start of April.
I'm happy enough they left money behind.

Bass Reeves

Cavanjack wrote: »

It's hard to win. Stores were hard bought 8 weeks ago.

I bought light stores 8-10 weeks ago they are 50+ kgs heavier weight put on with grass alone. What might have sem expensive then is anot expensive any longer. As well taking his 5 cattle taht were over fat if killed 40-50 kgs lighter it amounts to 200-250kgs. In 8-9 cattle of this weight you are giving the factory's a virtual free animal. By lads killing cattle at optimum profit point we can take maybe 20K cattle out of the kill in reality.

An overall reduction of even 5kgs on the steer kill will be as good as exporting 20k cattle. As well I am guessing that Chops cattle were of dairy breeding so they would have taken a while to go over fat. I also like to know were they manualyygraded or machine graded.

Panch18

I would say they should have gone a month ago without feeding - I'd never put meal into Herefords at this stage in the year. In fact all our cattle are killed off grass only

But tis easy tell someone else what to do with the benefit of hindsight. As long as you made money and are happy with it chops that's the main thing

CHOPS01

Confirmed.5c deducted for being over weight.

Bass Reeves

CHOPS01 wrote: »

Ah i'm not that foolish.Fed for 3 weeks before they went. First 10 days 3kg of 16% beef nut and 4.5kg for the remaining 10 days.I know in hindsight they probably didn't need it but ground was gone a bit sh1tty and didn't want them going backwards.
Last winter they got plenty of silage and 2.5kg of a mix of the same beef nut and rolled barley from about December 1st to to start of April.
I'm happy enough they left money behind.

In genera when feeding ration it takes cattle 12-18 days to get moving on it. Howver with the way weather detrioted the ration would have kept flesh on the. Not sure if I would have fed them ration over the winter weither. From December to end of March is 120 days so they would have eaten 300kgs at a cost of 75 euro. Compensatory growth would have given you part of that weight anyway. With the weight your cattle were at slaughter I guessing your silage was very good anyway. Minerals on top of the silage would have been adequate.

Just an an example if these cattle were killed mid july this year at an average weight of 370kgs when the base was 4/4.05 at an average grade of O+3= with Hereford bonus and QA they would have averaged 1520 euro. Even to hold the 2-3 ones that graded 3ish FS would leave you with a better margin especaially if you fed no nuts for the winter.

CHOPS01

The way i look at it i am only starting out so i need to keep my financial lay out as tight as possible.This i find i can do with HEx off dairy cows.If i can by the right type at the right price there is a good chance they will leave something decent behind them. So given what they are i am still realistically better off putting weight on them as they are not going to grade well enough on the grid.
The 7 heavier lads were bought at an average cost of €1084 delivered to the yard.6 on July 10th and the other on Dec 1st last year.Those 7 cattle averaged at €1596 in the pocket.The light lad was bought at €745 on Dec 1st and returned €1207.

kk.man

CHOPS01 wrote: »

The way i look at it i am only starting out so i need to keep my financial lay out as tight as possible.This i find i can do with HEx off dairy cows.If i can by the right type at the right price there is a good chance they will leave something decent behind them. So given what they are i am still realistically better off putting weight on them as they are not going to grade well enough on the grid.
The 7 heavier lads were bought at an average cost of €1084 delivered to the yard.6 on July 10th and the other on Dec 1st last year.Those 7 cattle averaged at €1596 in the pocket.The light lad was bought at €745 on Dec 1st and returned €1207.

Nice money on paper and I am been no way critical but you wouldn't have much change out of 350e in costs looking at those figures. Keeping cattle over the winter no matter what system is expensive. Plus you must factor in your labour. I'm not been the agent of gloom here but you'd want that margin at least.

CHOPS01

kk.man wrote: »

Nice money on paper and I am been no way critical but you wouldn't have much change out of 350e in costs looking at those figures. Keeping cattle over the winter no matter what system is expensive. Plus you must factor in your labour. I'm not been the agent of gloom here but you'd want that margin at least.

Agree 100% Last year was first year at it myself and went mad with fertilizer.I couldn't keep grass eaten.This year i used about 40% less fertilizer. Also following on from something Bass said earlier this years winter feed bill will be looked at with a view to reducing it.
Everyday is a school day and there are some good teachers here !!

CHOPS01

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In genera when feeding ration it takes cattle 12-18 days to get moving on it. Howver with the way weather detrioted the ration would have kept flesh on the. Not sure if I would have fed them ration over the winter weither. From December to end of March is 120 days so they would have eaten 300kgs at a cost of 75 euro. Compensatory growth would have given you part of that weight anyway. With the weight your cattle were at slaughter I guessing your silage was very good anyway. Minerals on top of the silage would have been adequate.

Just an an example if these cattle were killed mid july this year at an average weight of 370kgs when the base was 4/4.05 at an average grade of O+3= with Hereford bonus and QA they would have averaged 1520 euro. Even to hold the 2-3 ones that graded 3ish FS would leave you with a better margin especaially if you fed no nuts for the winter.

When you say minerals on top do you mean a lick or an actual mineral supplement spread on the silage?

Bass Reeves

Bagged minerals I usually buy from Dairygold they have a good general purpose beef mineral at present tvey ha e a 6 for the price of 5 and it works out 15-16/25kg bag. 100 grams/ head forcattle over 500kgs costs 6c/head/day or about 7 euro/ winter.

Cavanjack

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Bagged minerals I usually buy from Dairygold they have a good general purpose beef mineral at present tvey ha e a 6 for the price of 5 and it works out 15-16/25kg bag. 100 grams/ head forcattle over 500kgs costs 6c/head/day or about 7 euro/ winter.

Would you notice the difference in stock leaving sheds that have received the minerals to those that went without. Our silage came in very dry this year (more like hay) and am wondering weather to feed a little with it or not

Bass Reeves

Cavanjack wrote: »

Would you notice the difference in stock leaving sheds that have received the minerals to those that went without. Our silage came in very dry this year (more like hay) and am wondering weather to feed a little with it or not

When you really notice it is how fast cattle coat after turnout. They tend to have a good hairy coat inside( mine is a very open shed). One other thing I do is about every 6 weeks inside leave them without minerals for a week I think this is good for them as well to allow the system to clean out. IMO minerals are worth a kg of ration. Most of the benefit in feeding ration is that cattle will get adequate minerals IMO.

No need for bells and whistles just a good general purpose beef mineral at 20 grams/100kgs to a max of 100grams. In truth I hardly feed it at that level anyway but those are the recommended levels. If you get to 15grams /100kgs it will be more or less adequate allowing for a certain level in the silage anyway. If you feed ration allow for amount in ration (at 3% it is 30grams/kg). For 4-500kg stores it works out about 5-6c/head/day. about 6 euro for a 100day winter. Well worth a gamble for any farmer. Very few lads that feed minerals ever stop feeding them.

patsy_mccabe

I find when feeding pre-calver minerals to cows that when I stop feeding them it is very noticeable. I read somewhere (probably the journal) that animals need so much minerals in their system. If they take in too much, the excess passes out in their dung & urine. When you stop feeding the minerals, they still continue to expell that excess amount, so their system gets depleted in those minerals not available in their feed. I notice the effect in their coat. Takes a while for things to come into balance again.

squinn2912

Would certainly agree with that point it's insane not to feed pre-calver minerals nothing like a cow being in tight nick for calving and then keeping her right afterwards. Store cattle I'm not so sure about. Finishing stock taking on a lot of meal need their minerals to keep the stomach temperature regulated. Just mybthinking.

tatoo

I winter my lads outside and give them roundbales in circular feeders, would you be for putting a shake of beef mineral on the bales ?

squinn2912

tatoo wrote: »

I winter my lads outside and give them roundbales in circular feeders, would you be for putting a shake of beef mineral on the bales ?

No id put it on the trough along with whatever meal they get

larthehar

I have a bunch of charolais weanling bulls and usually squeeze and sell off grass as stores at 20mths.. nothing out of this the last few years..
So reconsidering my options
1 - leave as bulls and feed on until spring and sell
2 - squeeze, feed on as steers and sell in the spring
3 - load up and bring to the mart in the morning

Opinions?

gerryirl

Are you buying them in or are they your own calves and what type of cattle are they,

larthehar

gerryirl wrote: »

Are you buying them in or are they your own calves and what type of cattle are they,

home bred, Charolais X.. whites and golds..

gerryirl

If there good quality and are good weights and the right age I'd load them up now. You could get as much for them now as you will in spring. It's all a chance to know what to do.

grange mac

gerryirl wrote: »

If there good quality and are good weights and the right age I'd load them up now. You could get as much for them now as you will in spring. It's all a chance to know what to do.

Probably6 weeks too late to be selling them, bought number U grade Char/Lim paid 500+weight recently .....had been looking since August....export buyers stopped for moment down southwestern so dont throw them away....next march/ ground drys people be tearing for them....unless brexit or mercuser throws a spanner in works.

squinn2912

I agree. If you have space and feeding and can do without the money for a while I'd hang on. Those cubs probably didn't put much on in the last 6 weeks and prices in marts down a bit

larthehar

squinn2912 wrote: »

I agree. If you have space and feeding and can do without the money for a while I'd hang on. Those cubs probably didn't put much on in the last 6 weeks and prices in marts down a bit

I.l compromise.. i brought the heaviest to the mart and will see how they go.. the rest i will winter.. should i squeeze or not is the next thing..

squinn2912

larthehar wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

I agree. If you have space and feeding and can do without the money for a while I'd hang on. Those cubs probably didn't put much on in the last 6 weeks and prices in marts down a bit

I.l compromise.. i brought the heaviest to the mart and will see how they go.. the rest i will winter.. should i squeeze or not is the next thing..

I can only tell you that we squeezed last week main reason is we're not going for bull beef the question is whether or not you want to push them all winter

Cavanjack

larthehar wrote: »

I.l compromise.. i brought the heaviest to the mart and will see how they go.. the rest i will winter.. should i squeeze or not is the next thing..

If your selling weanlings don't squeeze them. Let the next man worry about that. They'll thrive better all winter for you too.

CloughCasey1

Cavanjack wrote: »

If your selling weanlings don't squeeze them. Let the next man worry about that. They'll thrive better all winter for you too.

They will thrive better alright. But when the AFB (armchair farmer brigade) come out in force after their fill for paddys day will they want to buy yearling bulls for their grass? Would there not be a better market on golden/white/red bullocks?

Cavanjack

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

They will thrive better alright. But when the AFB (armchair farmer brigade) come out in force after their fill for paddys day will they want to buy yearling bulls for their grass? Would there not be a better market on golden/white/red bullocks?

Plenty of non armchair farmers that will want bulls too, they could still be squeezed at that age too.

CHOPS01

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Bagged minerals I usually buy from Dairygold they have a good general purpose beef mineral at present tvey ha e a 6 for the price of 5 and it works out 15-16/25kg bag. 100 grams/ head forcattle over 500kgs costs 6c/head/day or about 7 euro/ winter.

Could this be fed on a shake of rolled barley.

CloughCasey1

Cavanjack wrote: »

Plenty of non armchair farmers that will want bulls too, they could still be squeezed at that age too.

Plenty to be sure but the same lads buy by weight not colour.

Bass Reeves

larthehar wrote: »

I.l compromise.. i brought the heaviest to the mart and will see how they go.. the rest i will winter.. should i squeeze or not is the next thing..

My inclination would be to squeeze them. Yearling bulls sell at a fairly good discount to bullocks. way less buyers around the ring.

CHOPS01 wrote: »

Could this be fed on a shake of rolled barley.

Yes it could be fed on rolled barley it could also be used to top up minerals in a ration where you are only feeding low amounts/head(1 KGish)

gerryirl

Cavanjack wrote: »

If your selling weanlings don't squeeze them. Let the next man worry about that. They'll thrive better all winter for you too.

ya and don't dose them either let the next man worry about that too..lol.. seriously though I'm buying weanlings the last month and Id say 80% of them haven't seen a dose. When weaning it goes very hard on the ones that had no dose.You can tell the ones that were dosed.

larthehar

Thanks for the replys.. mixed opinions.. i have two pens if them so maybe i will squeeze 1 pen and see how they go.. they are fairly even at the moment so prob the best thing to do.. i will only lose on half!!

tatoo

squinn2912 wrote: »

No id put it on the trough along with whatever meal they get

Trough ? What trough ??

Good quality baled silage is all they get, and plenty of fresh air, I give any of the cattle approaching their 30 month date rolled barley and beef meal/maize mix from September onwards , but that's the first rations they would get unless they were in need of a bit of tlc.

I suppose I could shake some beef mineral onto the bale once they'd have it well started ?

squinn2912

I wouldn't claim to have any expertise in this so I'm hoping to learn a bit on what other people are doing. I can tell you what we usually do. Younger cattle that are getting only a lick of meal along with silage won't get minerals until they go into the sheds. Cows are getting pre calver minerals and high mag lick buckets for those with calves on them. Forward cattle that we're finishing get beef minerals once a day and get (I'd need to double check) 50% maize mixed with meal twice a day. They are staying out and get good quality silage. I always doubted how effective the minerals were and in fact we fed two pens minerals and two none then asked the provider to pick out the pens getting them. His jaw dropped. We stopped buying from him but still get minerals. One thing that sticks in my mind was at a Better Farm walk at Willy Treacy's (I hope naming him is ok) where he spoke at length about the minerals for fattening cattle to keep the stomach cool and regulate the acidity levels to allow the animal to thrive. I don't know that it makes the world of difference but if he's at it and lots of the advice on here seems to agree then I'll bow to the more knowledgable than I! We have had finishing cattle getting no minerals and they did more than well so plenty of contradiction but for all the cost there is it's probably as well give them.
For yourself I'd be interested to see what the other guys on here think. Shaking the minerals into the feeder sounds through other to me you're bound to lose a lot of them through the bale. You could put a crumb of meal down to hold the minerals and perhaps do it every other day? It depends on the amount of cattle feeding at the feeder. Can they all get around it at the same time? If not then it's hard to know how they will all get them. Plenty to consider but you know your own set up better than anyone

nhg

How can you be sure each animal gets the correct amount of minerals each day, we give the allsure bolus that way we know that every bullock has had the correct amount.

Who2

nhg wrote: »

How can you be sure each animal gets the correct amount of minerals each day, we give the allsure bolus that way we know that every bullock has had the correct amount.

How do you know they are still working? That they haven't chewed them up and shat them back out? That they didn't throw them up two minutes after you put them in? Do you really believe the bonus will sit there and release a set amount of minerals per day?

nhg

Who2 wrote: »

How do you know they are still working? That they haven't chewed them up and shat them back out? That they didn't throw them up two minutes after you put them in? Do you really believe the bonus will sit there and release a set amount of minerals per day?

That's why I threw that comment out there... To find out what people's opinion is on them..