beef price tracker

patsy_mccabe

'Prime Beef throughput' at Irish Beef plants for the full year 2017. Values are weekly kills.
Source Bord Bia.
Almost a constant weekly throughput.

blue5000

Thanks patsy, all we need now is a graph for 2018 so we can see where the (meal) troughs are, pun intended.:D

kk.man

Years ago supermarkets didn't care about the cost of fresh meat. They just simply saw it as a lost leader.They had their own butchers who cut up the carcauss. Factories had a good margin. Noadays margins are squeezed and it would be very hard for a new meat plant to start from the bottom. The product is now cut up and put in packs in the factories now.

Hershall

blue5000 wrote: »

Anybody got quotes for next week?

3.90 for bks mext week midlands but just about.......

Cavanjack

Was talking to the young lad of a small meat processor one night. He had a good few drinks in him so we talked shop for a while. He said they were making a profit of €200 a head. Think they were just slaughtering and selling primal cuts (if that's the right expression). He said the bigger lads would be making more.
The journal is turning into a rag with their sensational headlines.

kk.man

Cavanjack wrote: »

Was talking to the young lad of a small meat processor one night. He had a good few drinks in him so we talked shop for a while. He said they were making a profit of €200 a head. Think they were just slaughtering and selling primal cuts (if that's the right expression). He said the bigger lads would be making more.
The journal is turning into a rag with their sensational headlines.

Think he had too much drink on him...

Mac Taylor

In a prior life I had a lot of dealings with uk retailers, even on promotion they expect their margin to be maintained, contracts were usually 1-2 years and would have promotions built in to the price. Account manager would base his price on a combination of standard and promotional sales, later especialy with own label products they wanted open book costing, basically a fixed margin on cost. This was ~15 years ago and related primarily to frozen food so may not be relevant any more:P

wrangler

kk.man wrote: »

Think he had too much drink on him...

Aye, Pubtalk, very dependable source alright

Cavanjack

wrangler wrote: »

Aye, Pubtalk, very dependable source alright

It's often the place to hear things You shouldn't hear.

Bass Reeves

My opinion on the article is that it was a way to have a fancy headline on the front page and fill 2-3 pages inside of rubbish.They gave a figure of 2.1 billion paid to farmers for 1.75 million cattle. That is 1200/animal. No mention of the vat rebate. Very few finishers are vat registered and those that are usually have the finishing unit a a vat structure if possible. Vat accounts for 60 euro or about 100 million of the figures supplied by the papers.

He looked at Foyle Meats margin at one stage this was 83 euro/head which equated to less than a 2% margin(1.6-1.9%). Across the rest of the industry this equated to only 32 euro/head. From this Foyle must be killing elephants if 83 euro of a margin transfers into only a 1.6-1.9% margin/head. Average animal is making them a gross return of 4600 and if you take away there average processing costs and margin they are paying farmers over 4K/head for cattle. Next we will have the elephant meat scandal.

At the end he add a note that operating profits dose not take into account cost of interest on debts additional income or taxes. He made no analysis of what way SRM removal effects operating costs. Goodman is one of only two owners of SRM processing plants. What he charges other independent plants and knackerys would effect profitability right across the industry.

Then on page three we have a big picture of Justin and Joe holding a sign for save our sucklers. It would be more apt if they has a sign say save the suckers. Because the FJ is not helping beef farmers with its lazy journalism.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

My opinion on the article is that it was a way to have a fancy headline on the front page and fill 2-3 pages inside of rubbish.They gave a figure of 2.1 billion paid to farmers for 1.75 million cattle. That is 1200/animal. No mention of the vat rebate. Very few finishers are vat registered and those that are usually have the finishing unit a a vat structure if possible. Vat accounts for 60 euro or about 100 million of the figures supplied by the papers.

He looked at Foyle Meats margin at one stage this was 83 euro/head which equated to less than a 2% margin(1.6-1.9%). Across the rest of the industry this equated to only 32 euro/head. From this Foyle must be killing elephants if 83 euro of a margin transfers into only a 1.6-1.9% margin/head. Average animal is making them a gross return of 4600 and if you take away there average processing costs and margin they are paying farmers over 4K/head for cattle. Next we will have the elephant meat scandal.

At the end he add a note that operating profits dose not take into account cost of interest on debts additional income or taxes. He made no analysis of what way SRM removal effects operating costs. Goodman is one of only two owners of SRM processing plants. What he charges other independent plants and knackerys would effect profitability right across the industry.

Then on page three we have a big picture of Justin and Joe holding a sign for save our sucklers. It would be more apt if they has a sign say save the suckers. Because the FJ is not helping beef farmers with its lazy journalism.

It must annoy the hell outa you that the IFJ are able to make a profit and provide employment.
If I'm not happy with a service/product I just walk away, I try not to go on and on and on............and on........and on about it

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

It must annoy the hell outa you that the IFJ are able to make a profit and provide employment.
If I'm not happy with a service/product I just walk away, I try not to go on and on and on............and on........and on about it

Unfortunately they are considered the voice of the Irish farmer. If I as an individual do not read there articles and analyse what they write I am leaving them publish what is often misinformation. If you remember back to the IFA debacle I was critical of there journalistic support which proved correct after.

Take the article in this weeks journal it has informed the public that meat processors operate at wafer thin margins and from the article we see that they have miscalculated some figure. Now maybe they are right maybe the margins are wafer thin down at 2%. Personally I think we would have had processors liqudations like Kerry beef and Lamb every 3-5 years if margins were that thin.

But we have not has such liquidations but we have seen the bigger players move to consoildate there hold on the business. But investigative journalism in the FJ tends to be of a poor quality. There publication of raw data is often helpful and I buy it for such raw data, cattle prices etc and to access information about department schemes etc.

You the attitude of ignoring fundmental flaws in information supplied and not analysing it is often farmers downfall

By the way if above is you best attempt at a rebuttal of my analysis I am not surprised as you again attempt to silence anyone with a different opinion.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Unfortunately they are considered the voice of the Irish farmer. If I as an individual do not read there articles and analyse what they write I am leaving them publish what is often misinformation. If you remember back to the IFA debacle I was critical of there journalistic support which proved correct after.

Take the article in this weeks journal it has informed the public that meat processors operate at wafer thin margins and from the article we see that they have miscalculated some figure. Now maybe they are right maybe the margins are wafer thin down at 2%. Personally I think we would have had processors liqudations like Kerry beef and Lamb every 3-5 years if margins were that thin.

But we have not has such liquidations but we have seen the bigger players move to consoildate there hold on the business. But investigative journalism in the FJ tends to be of a poor quality. There publication of raw data is often helpful and I buy it for such raw data, cattle prices etc and to access information about department schemes etc.

You the attitude of ignoring fundmental flaws in information supplied and not analysing it is often farmers downfall

By the way if above is you best attempt at a rebuttal of my analysis I am not surprised as you again attempt to silence anyone with a different opinion.

and you think you can silence a national newspaper just because it doesn't agree with you...you don't have to buy if you don't like it.
You can apply some sort of a conspiracy to any story in any paper......if you're paranoid.
Unlike farmers they're not going into a protected market, nor are they subsidised, yet they're making a profit and providing employment. Have you not got the nerve to call it on what you call misinformation, are you afraid they'll rubbish you like I do...........criticism from anonymous forum is going nowhere.

I'm calling it now, get out from behind your false name and accuse them of what you're saying here on their letters page.

blue5000

Mod note Can you two take a chill pill and calm it down a bit please, next step is a card.

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

and you think you can silence a national newspaper just because it doesn't agree with you...you don't have to buy if you don't like it.
You can apply some sort of a conspiracy to any story in any paper......if you're paranoid.
Unlike farmers they're not going into a protected market, nor are they subsidised, yet they're making a profit and providing employment. Have you not got the nerve to call it on what you call misinformation, are you afraid they'll rubbish you like I do...........criticism from anonymous forum is going nowhere.

I'm calling it now, get out from behind your false name and accuse them of what you're saying here on their letters page.

First off I never indicated that there was conspiracy theory. I have no such thoughts even though the editor had at one stage accepted an offer of employment ftom a meat processing group. I mearly indicated that the article was full of errors. My own opinion is that it was a lazy article a page and headline filler. Not only a poor article but poor editing. I presume that such article are proof read by the editorial staff. If so a simple mathematical error in the percentages involved with the 32 euro and 83 euro figure are national school maths. It should have jumped out at whoever proof read the article.

The FJ has priority access more than any other agri based paper to other sectors of the agri industry. Because of that It has responsibilities to make sure it analysis is correct.

I be slow writing into there letters page as they reserve the right to edit these letters and have done so recently in Marian Harkins case to give a false impression of her submission and to quote her out of context

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

First off I never indicated that there was conspiracy theory. I have no such thoughts even though the editor had at one stage accepted an offer of employment ftom a meat processing group. I mearly indicated that the article was full of errors. My own opinion is that it was a lazy article a page and headline filler. Not only a poor article but poor editing. I presume that such article are proof read by the editorial staff. If so a simple mathematical error in the percentages involved with the 32 euro and 83 euro figure are national school maths. It should have jumped out at whoever proof read the article.

The FJ has priority access more than any other agri based paper to other sectors of the agri industry. Because of that It has responsibilities to make sure it analysis is correct.

I be slow writing into there letters page as they reserve the right to edit these letters and have done so recently in Marian Harkins case to give a false impression of her submission and to quote her out of context

The target of your accusations and now your inference should be allowed refute on a proper forum, TBF

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

'Prime Beef throughput' at Irish Beef plants for the full year 2017. Values are weekly kills.
Source Bord Bia.
Almost a constant weekly throughput.

Is that not what the factory feedlots are about, to ensure the constant throughput,

Willfarman

The article has fractionally more merit the spakes of the drunken gom in the pub. But argue as we may about it whether you are a humble farmer, farm union rep or agri journalist trying to accurately figure processing margins your time would be as productive scratching your head while staring into a ditch for answers. The data available publicly is so scant.

Pidae.m

Willfarman wrote: »

The article has fractionally more merit the spakes of the drunken gom in the pub. But argue as we may about it whether you are a humble farmer, farm union rep or agri journalist trying to accurately figure processing margins your time would be as productive scratching your head while staring into a ditch for answers. The data available publicly is so scant.

Friend of mine who is an accountant with one of the big 4 done an audit on a factory once & said no matter how many times he asked , he was never directly told how they calculated the price that should be paid to farmers. I told him when it rains price goes down, over supply price goes down.

patsy_mccabe

wrangler wrote: »

Is that not what the factory feedlots are about, to ensure the constant throughput,

Yes, and I have absolutely no problem with that (despite what other posters on here might say about it). Being able to guarantee a constant supply increases your bargaining power with your customers, the large supermarkets.

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Yes, and I have absolutely no problem with that (despite what other posters on here might say about it). Being able to guarantee a constant supply increases your bargaining power with your customers, the large supermarkets.

It's a necessity, don't you know well you can't get top dollar for surplus product, the more that's tied into fixed contracts the better
Have to look at the broader picture, do we try to stop lamb imports or do we allow processors to import lambs to hold on to customers. That's assuming we had any power to stop them importing....which we don't
Likewise the feedlots, would every farmer sign a contract to supply a certain quantity per week.......might sign it alright but unlikely to deliver

Willfarman

wrangler wrote: »

It's a necessity, don't you know well you can't get top dollar for surplus product, the more that's tied into fixed contracts the better
Have to look at the broader picture, do we try to stop lamb imports or do we allow processors to import lambs to hold on to customers. That's assuming we had any power to stop them importing....which we don't
Likewise the feedlots, would every farmer sign a contract to supply a certain quantity per week.......might sign it alright but unlikely to deliver

If the imported lambs are costing less or even the same as our own then no we have no grounds to attempt to stop it.
But if we had any intelligence we would boycott thems that's at it thereby giving their opposition a competitive advantage even for a week or two..

But alas we are a little shy on intelligence why else would we torture ourselves with slee derivation and hardship every springtime!!

Back on this ifj article they missed a trick in my view by making a unsubstantiated claim they should of had some balls and said something like 5 million profits per week and at least provoke a reaction from the industry.

wrangler

Willfarman wrote: »

If the imported lambs are costing less or even the same as our own then no we have no grounds to attempt to stop it.
But if we had any intelligence we would boycott thems that's at it thereby giving their opposition a competitive advantage even for a week or two..

But alas we are a little shy on intelligence why else would we torture ourselves with slee derivation and hardship every springtime!!

Back on this ifj article they missed a trick in my view by making a unsubstantiated claim they should of had some balls and said something like 5 million profits per week and at least provoke a reaction from the industry.

If you're all correct in your calculations on boards here I can't believe that there isn't one farmer out of the the 100000 in the country that has the balls to tear their figures apart and put their name to it on a public forum. I await the next few weeks with anticipation
As for Bass's cop out, When I write to them I use the proviso that they don't print it if it needs editing, simples

TITANIUM.

wrangler wrote: »

If you're all correct in your calculations on boards here I can't believe that there isn't one farmer out of the the 100000 in the country that has the balls to tear their figures apart and put their name to it on a public forum. I await the next few weeks with anticipation
As for Bass's cop out, When I write to them I use the proviso that they don't print it if it needs editing, simples

Not trying to argue now Wrangler but i just want to know!

A. Do you believe the figures printed by the IFJ to be accurate?

And B. If not are you playing devils advocate or just arguing for the sake of it.

Do not reply to this post unless you are willing to give a 1 word anwser to A. And a very short reply to B.

Thank you.

Willfarman

wrangler wrote: »

Willfarman wrote: »

If the imported lambs are costing less or even the same as our own then no we have no grounds to attempt to stop it.
But if we had any intelligence we would boycott thems that's at it thereby giving their opposition a competitive advantage even for a week or two..

But alas we are a little shy on intelligence why else would we torture ourselves with slee derivation and hardship every springtime!!

Back on this ifj article they missed a trick in my view by making a unsubstantiated claim they should of had some balls and said something like 5 million profits per week and at least provoke a reaction from the industry.

If you're all correct in your calculations on boards here I can't believe that there isn't one farmer out of the the 100000 in the country that has the balls to tear their figures apart and put their name to it on a public forum. I await the next few weeks with anticipation
As for Bass's cop out, When I write to them I use the proviso that they don't print it if it needs editing, simples

At the bottom of the third page there is a full and frank admission that there isn't close to enough data available to attempt to accurately estimate profitability. So pulling them up is pointless.

wrangler

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Not trying to argue now Wrangler but i just want to know!

A. Do you believe the figures printed by the IFJ to be accurate?

And B. If not are you playing devils advocate or just arguing for the sake of it.

Do not reply to this post unless you are willing to give a 1 word anwser to A. And a very short reply to B.

Thank you.

The issue is not the accuracy of the article as it's fairly well explained that they're given an opinion based 0n figures that's already in he public domain.
Critics here have used words like lazy , misinformation, reading something into the editors offer from LG.....and lots more. just because it's fashionable to criticise,....and they say the vegans are bad
OK I'm good at basic maths and would put a different calculation on their computations,but it'd only be an opinion too like everyones' here and certainly wouldn't stand up to scrutiny .
But I don't think it's a reason to go on an ego trip about it, IFJ do a good job and they are the envy of a lot of the tabloids,

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/irish-farmers-journal-a-leader-in-the-newspaper-field-1.1705625

wrangler

Willfarman wrote: »

At the bottom of the third page there is a full and frank admission that there isn't close to enough data available to attempt to accurately estimate profitability. So pulling them up is pointless.

As i say , just an opinion

TITANIUM.

wrangler wrote: »

The issue is not the accuracy of the article as it's fairly well explained that they're given an opinion based 0n figures that's already in he public domain.
Critics here have used words like lazy , misinformation, reading something into the editors offer from LG.....and lots more. just because it's fashionable to criticise,....and they say the vegans are bad
OK I'm good at basic maths and would put a different calculation on their computations,but it'd only be an opinion too like everyones' here and certainly wouldn't stand up to scrutiny .
But I don't think it's a reason to go on an ego trip about it, IFJ do a good job and they are the envy of a lot of the tabloids,

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/irish-farmers-journal-a-leader-in-the-newspaper-field-1.1705625

You might be good at basic maths but your terrible at following basic instructions. Anwser the questions put to you in the manner I outlined or don't quote the post. Simples!
The lads are discussing the article and expressing their own opinions on it.
You on the other hand are attacking their right to do just that. If you have an opinion of your own then I'd live to hear it. But what your at is a bit silly and juvenile if you ask me. Me thinks Wrangled has to much time on his hands.

Good loser

wrangler wrote: »

The issue is not the accuracy of the article as it's fairly well explained that they're given an opinion based 0n figures that's already in he public domain.
Critics here have used words like lazy , misinformation, reading something into the editors offer from LG.....and lots more. just because it's fashionable to criticise,....and they say the vegans are bad
OK I'm good at basic maths and would put a different calculation on their computations,but it'd only be an opinion too like everyones' here and certainly wouldn't stand up to scrutiny .
But I don't think it's a reason to go on an ego trip about it, IFJ do a good job and they are the envy of a lot of the tabloids,

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/irish-farmers-journal-a-leader-in-the-newspaper-field-1.1705625

I think it's an excellent paper and has been for many decades.
They have been blessed in their editors.
Have read farming papers from other countries and they don't match the IFJ. Nor do the other Irish papers or the Supplements.
Particularly good at keeping on top of the Brussels news and their alerts on the intricacies of the various farm schemes are invaluable.

wrangler

Good loser wrote: »

I think it's an excellent paper and has been for many decades.
They have been blessed in their editors.
Have read farming papers from other countries and they don't match the IFJ. Nor do the other Irish papers or the Supplements.
Particularly good at keeping on top of the Brussels news and their alerts on the intricacies of the various farm schemes are invaluable.

And I've directed people on here to email them for information and they've replied promptly
Of course they are good, but are seen as part of the establishment on here, in with the factories etc'
As per that article on the IT they are forging ahead, this new farm will give them a run for their money though

epfff

Beef price tracker
I was expecting this thread to be about beef prices avaible to farmers from processors not profits beef processors can make and the quality of the irish print media

Good loser

wrangler wrote: »

And I've directed people on here to email them for information and they've replied promptly
Of course they are good, but are seen as part of the establishment on here, in with the factories etc'
As per that article on the IT they are forging ahead, this new farm will give them a run for their money though

What new farm Wrangler?

wrangler

Good loser wrote: »

What new farm Wrangler?

They have a demonstration farm in Tullamore, they leased it last years so it's only starting.
Suckler and sheep, they were going to show us how it's done, but it has been riddled with problems, two infertile bulls out of three that were purchased and now the manager is going.
Hpefully it straightens out

Base price

Any updates on the replacement Stena Line ferry for FR calf exports.
From what I have heard "Das Boot" still isn't in place.
One wonders who's hands this protracted delay is playing into :rolleyes:

TITANIUM.

Base price wrote: »

Any updates on the replacement Stena Line ferry for FR calf exports.
From what I have heard "Das Boot" still isn't in place.
One wonders who's hands this protracted delay is playing into :rolleyes:

Jesus don't mention Das Boot, you know what happened to them.
Your point is spot on. Every delay affects the amount of cattle we can get out of the country. The more we can get rid of the better

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

Any updates on the replacement Stena Line ferry for FR calf exports.
From what I have heard "Das Boot" still isn't in place.
One wonders who's hands this protracted delay is playing into :rolleyes:

Are you not in the market for calves, surely it must be a help,

Base price

wrangler wrote: »

Are you not in the market for calves, surely it must be a help,

Not 100,000 of them, that was the number that was exported last year.

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

Not 100,000 of them, that was the number that was exported last year.

No,but just to take the edge of the trade while you're buying could put a few grand in your pocket. Have to think of No 1 first. mightn't be easy buy when the boats do run.

Base price

wrangler wrote: »

No,but just to take the edge of the trade while you're buying could put a few grand in your pocket. Have to think of No 1 first. mightn't be easy buy when the boats do run.

It will certainly collapse prices for all breeds of calves.

Bass Reeves

Buying cheap calves because exporters are not able to compete is of no advantage to the drystock sector. In general cheap calves means you save 20-50/head. It rarely effects HE or AA calves as these tend not to be exported. However it comes back to bite you when you sell into a market in 6, 12 and 18 months time as store are plentiful.The real killer is at slaughter as when there is excess stock aroung and chills fill up processors drop prices by 20-50c/kg which equates to 50-150/head.

Willfarman

It’s not too bad if they don’t all wind up as under 24 month bulls all coming fit in the same 3 months! I think that silver bullet for the industry has been sent to the smelters though while the memory of spring 14 lives!

49801

epfff wrote: »

Beef price tracker
I was expecting this thread to be about beef prices avaible to farmers from processors not profits beef processors can make and the quality of the irish print media

+1

Pidae.m

One man in Bandon (a retired farmer) bought 25 Hereford bull calves 3-4 weeks old €410 average for the bunch . The world is phucked

CloughCasey1

Pidae.m wrote: »

One man in Bandon (a retired farmer) bought 25 Hereford bull calves 3-4 weeks old €410 average for the bunch . The world is phucked

That's crazy. They will be worth €480 by Christmas if they are nice sorts.

Bass Reeves

Pidae.m wrote: »

One man in Bandon (a retired farmer) bought 25 Hereford bull calves 3-4 weeks old €410 average for the bunch . The world is phucked

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

That's crazy. They will be worth €480 by Christmas if they are nice sorts.

But sur that the price of em

patsy_mccabe

Pidae.m wrote: »

One man in Bandon (a retired farmer) bought 25 Hereford bull calves 3-4 weeks old €410 average for the bunch . The world is phucked

You dont hear the dairy farmer complaining.
Was it in the mart he bought them?

cute geoge

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

That's crazy. They will be worth €480 by Christmas if they are nice sorts.

Any calf that would make over €400 would be a miller of a calf you can be sure ,I have heard of such bull calves to be killed at under 16 months and achieving a price over €1300 now I have no clue what they would have cost in feed to get them to that stage but it can be done by top class operator!!

Pidae.m

Some lovely bunches of Hereford bullocks sold down here for €600 the last few weeks. That's why I think calves at €410 is bollicks

White Clover

Pidae.m wrote: »

Some lovely bunches of Hereford bullocks sold down here for €600 the last few weeks. That's why I think calves at €410 is bollicks

Did you see any 300-350kg white head heifers selling recently? Yearlings.

Pidae.m

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

You dont hear the dairy farmer complaining.
Was it in the mart he bought them?

Ya all bought in the mart. Said he wanted them all the one day. On the back of that then people seem to think a fr bull calf that's worth 120 seem great valve at 200.