beef price tracker

Duke92

Jjameson wrote: »

For what kind of cattle and killing what part of the country?

Bullocks and heifers good cattle don’t know is there any different for fr
Waterford

lalababa

Dunedin wrote: »

If you use the logic of not counting subs as part of income, then say for example that Farmer A is making €10k loss on normal production but has subs of €50k. It’s still €40k profit so they should pack it in just because there was a loss in production. Whilst no one is happy that cost of production is barely covered and in a lot of cases it’s not even, but reality is that the subs are there and we benefit from them. The day they’re gone is the day the farmers will really exit and rightly so.

Secondly, in some and indeed a lot of cases there are sheds in situ on farms that are long paid for and it’s only a paper cost if you are including them.

Finally labour cost. If I go to an off farm job and get €500 per week then that or €26000 per year is my salary. Likewise if I end up with €26000 on farm profit (including subs) then that’s my income and covers the (my) labour cost.

We often get caught up in factoring every last cost. Do you always hear of people working off farm talking about cost of going to work but I can tell you that diesel, car wear and tear, tax insurance, parking in some places, buying/bringing lunch, an odd fiver/tenner/twenty for Mary in accounts birthday or Fred’s leaving present. I commute to Dublin to work. Reckon it costs me €150 fuel/€10 tolls/€10 lunch/€10 misc each week which is nearly €9k a year.

Yep , very true, but alot on the farming forum including myself are espousing that maybe that 10k loss on cattle production could be largely mitigated by cutting numbers & inputs..ie going extensive or even organic. If rearing 100 cattle intensively makes a 10k loss then rearing 50 cattle with little or no inputs may actually make a profit.

I says

I says wrote: »

I bought just enough fert to go a bag to the acre and set stock what I have. I’ve bought no summer grazers and won’t bother me backside with silage this year. No point in doing anything else because the money isn’t in it, what I’ve out at the moment is worthless than I paid for them last backend.
Christ above the dairy calves must be worthless this time. How long will this last who knows it’s what’s left after is the thing.

As I mentioned last week that’s what I’ve done. Except she who must be obeyed convinced(told) me to close a few fields for silage.
I’ve the numbers I want out now patrolling their patches till autumn. A bag of meal to get them to follow me next autumn is all I spend between now and then.

Robson99

Duke92 wrote: »

Bullocks and heifers good cattle don’t know is there any different for fr
Waterford

So it still could be 3.30 in other parts of the country

Robson99

Duke92 wrote: »

I’m presume you mean the farmers in the west
A lot would be great I’ll agree but not all
They want to get the same wage as the guy milking 200 cows in southeast some joke
They should just leave it as a carbon sink over there

I take it you are not categorizing all farms in the West to be left as a carbon sink. There is ****e farms and ****e farmers in the South and East as well as the West.
The main difference with farms in the West is that in the majority of cases 50 acres+ is a good size farm where it only the size of some fields in other parts

Duke92

Robson99 wrote: »

I take it you are not categorizing all farms in the West to be left as a carbon sink. There is ****e farms and ****e farmers in the South and East as well as the West.
The main difference with farms in the West is that in the majority of cases 50 acres+ is a good size farm where it only the size of some fields in other parts

Yes your dead right have some here myself so planted it but I know there’s parts of the west that’s not a option

Duke92

Robson99 wrote: »

So it still could be 3.30 in other parts of the country

I don’t think so the only place I seen that was on here

Robson99

Duke92 wrote: »

I don’t think so the only place I seen that was on here

I hope not...every 10 cent drop will probably take 3 weeks to rise

Danzy

lalababa wrote: »

Yep , very true, but alot on the farming forum including myself are espousing that maybe that 10k loss on cattle production could be largely mitigated by cutting numbers & inputs..ie going extensive or even organic. If rearing 100 cattle intensively makes a 10k loss then rearing 50 cattle with little or no inputs may actually make a profit.

I have 65 poly, white head heifers on 85 acres, reasonable good land. Grass is allocated for a day to 2 days, back fenced etc cattle go out to graze for 3 hours any reasonable chance in winter. 90 day winter for 45 of them this year. Housed mid December, taken the beating on 2 dry fields to get late housing, all mostly finished off grass, though
Bought tonne of Sward cut and tonne of 18 6 12, will spread 40 tonne of lime this year.

I could carry a lot more but what I do works and more does not mean more. We'll see in years to come if change is needed.

Good loser

Robson99 wrote: »

Factory agents were the driving force buying stores in Jan and Feb. They were not active at the back end of last year and hence stores were cheaper then.
It wasn't the farmers buying in Jan and Feb the agents were filling the sheds so as they would have a supply of cattle now when they should have been getting scarce.
As always the would rather pay over the odds in the mart than to rise them 10 or 20 cent.
Factories don't reflect prices ....They manipulate them to suit THEMSELVES

Ah the Conspiracy Theory again!!


How do you know it wasn't the farmers were buying in Jan and Feb?


Could you not equally say Factories were supporting/subsidizing the price of store cattle in Jan/Feb?
Certainly there were no factories paying €200+ for Her and Angus calves in Jan/Feb.

wrangler

Good loser wrote: »

Ah the Conspiracy Theory again!!


How do you know it wasn't the farmers were buying in Jan and Feb?


Could you not equally say Factories were supporting/subsidizing the price of store cattle in Jan/Feb?
Certainly there were no factories paying €200+ for Her and Angus calves in Jan/Feb.

It's surprising that the processor aren't being blamed for the virus, such is the imagination of some posters/Beef plan

Gary kk

To be fair given the track record of the factories even in the recent past could you really blame any farmer for seen the worst in them. Or are yoj here to rise other people

Bass Reeves

Good loser wrote: »

Ah the Conspiracy Theory again!!


How do you know it wasn't the farmers were buying in Jan and Feb?


Could you not equally say Factories were supporting/subsidizing the price of store cattle in Jan/Feb?
Certainly there were no factories paying €200+ for Her and Angus calves in Jan/Feb.

Farmers/Finishers continue to make one serious mistake they constantly buy cattle when processors are filing there sheds. I van never understand the gra to finish cattle for March/April if you have to replace them. It is economic suicide. However there is an element of some lads feeling trapped if they do not drop a double of cattle to the factor every week.

On calves you will see most lads here think that in general some farmers are paying too much for calves. If you look at JEX calves it took 5 years+ for lads to understand you cannot buy them cheap enough. That is why calf slaughter number have gone from 600 to 15K since 2016 and are running over double 2019 year figures at present.

But dropping calf prices will not solve the problem for farmers . The lower the price of the calf the more likely that dairy farmers will go for more easier calving Bulls and you will get more and more ****ty AA calves. But sure that will be BP fault as well.

Jjameson wrote: »

I think in fairness Bass the farmers drive the store trade in the main and they aren’t stuck for a bob either.

Jam it was not I that commented about the price of store in Jan/Feb. I pointed out the way when any downturn in prices happen these cattle exasperate the issue. in the US processors are not allowed to own or control feedlot units.

tanko

wrangler wrote: »

It's surprising that the processor aren't being blamed for the virus, such is the imagination of some posters/Beef plan

It's even more surprising that the beef plan isn't being blamed for the virus such is the imagination of some posters/Irish Factory Assiciation fat cats.

Bass Reeves

Jjameson wrote: »

But where are these troubled farmers whose enterprise is Price sensitive?

I am not quite sure J but all I know is that I got out of winter finishing 4-5 years ago. It was impossible between nitrates and trying to buy some of your stock in the spring time. You had a miller's bill hanging over you until you sold some stock in June. No matter what way I do the sums I cannot see a justifyable margin in it espeially hauling ration around. Now maybe if I was willing to carry 30-50k in debt or tie that amount extra up in stock but I am not willing to have 100k tied up on stock and miller credit costing me 5-6k in an interest bill

wrangler

tanko wrote: »

It's even more surprising that the beef plan isn't being blamed for the virus such is the imagination of some posters/Irish Factory Assiciation fat cats.

Not surprising that beef price is dirt going by the way they're badmouthing beef these days ....sad lot

Bass Reeves

Jjameson wrote: »

The big exodus is being talked about perpetually. No fear. There’s some independently wealthy guy after building a slatted house since you and anyone else exited and the beef keep coming no matter the price.

When an animal is bought to 18 months even to beyond the first winter someone will finish him unless he is exported.

Biggest issue is lads producing at cost or below cost beef. The lad throwing 3 kgs into cattle over the winter. The lad breaking even keeping 15 cows instead of 10. The lad carrying average bulls to 400kgd+ DW. The lad that everything has to be FS4. The lad carrying FR to 36+ months.

Dropping 10kgs DW/ animal would take the equivalent of 60k cattle out of the system

Robson99

Good loser wrote: »

Ah the Conspiracy Theory again!!


How do you know it wasn't the farmers were buying in Jan and Feb?


Could you not equally say Factories were supporting/subsidizing the price of store cattle in Jan/Feb?
Certainly there were no factories paying €200+ for Her and Angus calves in Jan/Feb.

Aah you moved the goalposts . Now your on about calves. Your initial post was on about stores.
I can't comment on calves...I don't buy them...but I certainly seen all the factory agents buying stores for their sheds and for the feedlots. Plus the glut of stores don't come out till mid February onwards

Robson99

wrangler wrote: »

Not surprising that beef price is dirt going by the way they're badmouthing beef these days ....sad lot

Where are the IFA now that the lambs are also taking a hammering.. hiding as usual. Probably blame the BPM for this as well

older by the day

I suppose the advantage of beef you can can work off farm as well and you can qualify for the subsidies with them. But in fairness they don't don't make money. Time for trees or contract rearing or let the place if not happy. I don't see anybody being threatened or coerced to buy at the Mart.

Water John

All the farmer wants is a margin, that each stock unit carried washes it's face. If the person decides or has the capacity for 10 or 200, each can decide what off farm income they need extra for a living. Everyone else in the food chain has their margin, why not the farmer? We have fairtrade bananas and coffee. Same should apply it to beef and lamb.

Fireside Solicitor

Watched a programme on the fair trade coffee growers - a middling beef farmer would look rich in comparison. I don’t know if there is an easy answer to it all - needs less beef to be produced, legislation to put manners on the retailers and consumers to be willing to pay quality prices for quality food. I can see a lot of lads either going bust or switching out of beef before this happens. For old people like me this problem didn’t begin today or yesterday, it’s 30/40 years in the making.

wrangler

Robson99 wrote: »

Where are the IFA now that the lambs are also taking a hammering.. hiding as usual. Probably blame the BPM for this as well

What do you want them to do, in all the huffing and puffing beefplan wasn't fit to stop the factories doing as they like. will you get real; do you want close the factories again, I doubt it ,
I've told you over the years you won't bully the factories , time to cop on. every farmer/business would behave the same in the same situation, in fact some farmers'd be worse.
I've worked for farmers and frankly I pity contractors

I wouldn't waste my time now trying to bully a factory ,they;ll do what they do and no one'll stop them

Fireside Solicitor

I’d agree with you on not bullying the factories. Bully them with what?

We sell a perishable commodity - not a product mind - a big difference. So we have no where to go other than the factory. The fact we lost any chance of mutualising factory ownership in the 1970s and 1980s is down to poor leadership then and poor participation by the farmers. Had we gone down that route today we would have had some control over our kill, route to market and the branding of that kill. BUT we would still need Government support to force legislation on retailers. Doing what was done last summer blew any hope of that. Covid will nail it down altogether, cheap food will not be threatened now.

richie123

We exported 265000 tonnes beef to UK in 2019
It was worth approx 1 billion.
Divide 1 billion by the 265000 and u get approx 3700 euro per tonne ( correct me if I'm wrong)
That beef would have cost factory roughly between 3200 and 3500(being predominantly dairy bred)whats left has to pay all wages and all costs to run a factory and you can Imagine it wouldn't be cheap.
I don't think factories are creaming it at all.
But what they do have is scale...and that's how it adds up.

Gary kk

richie123 wrote: »

We exported 265000 tonnes beef to UK in 2019
It was worth approx 1 billion.
Divide 1 billion by the 265000 and u get approx 3700 euro per tonne ( correct me if I'm wrong)
That beef would have cost factory roughly between 3200 and 3500(being predominantly dairy bred)whats left has to pay all wages and all costs to run a factory and you can Imagine it wouldn't be cheap.
I don't think factories are creaming it at all.
But what they do have is scale...and that's how it adds up.

Where are you getting the value for the beef can you share the link

richie123

Gary kk wrote: »

Where are you getting the value for the beef can you share the link

It was an article in the business section of the independent a few weeks back I've no link unfortunately my figures might not be 100 % but not far out either.the total value was closer to 900 million but I rounded up to a billion.it made for very Interesting reading all the same.

mf240

The ifa are saying that we shouldn't be worrying about labeling "mistakes" or Polish beef ? What's that about?

wrangler

mf240 wrote: »

The ifa are saying that we shouldn't be worrying about labeling "mistakes" or Polish beef ? What's that about?

Eddie Downey was the only one I saw on about wrong labelling, I didn't see it myself.... he's a while gone now.
Tim promised he was going to block the ports at the election hustings, but, like standing at the gates, that was to get the Beef plan votes...... it was successful anyway

Bass Reeves

richie123 wrote: »

We exported 265000 tonnes beef to UK in 2019
It was worth approx 1 billion.
Divide 1 billion by the 265000 and u get approx 3700 euro per tonne ( correct me if I'm wrong)
That beef would have cost factory roughly between 3200 and 3500(being predominantly dairy bred)whats left has to pay all wages and all costs to run a factory and you can Imagine it wouldn't be cheap.
I don't think factories are creaming it at all.
But what they do have is scale...and that's how it adds up.

There is a certain amount of cow beef goes to the UK for catering . As well there is about 220+ million in VAT in the price the factories pay farmers. As well you have the fifth quarter and recovered beef not weighted

richie123

Gary kk wrote: »

Where are you getting the value for the beef can you share the link

Not same article but same content.

paddysdream

Jjameson wrote: »

Would the figure be accurate or just an estimate?

Flat rate refund (5.4%)on 1 billion is 54 million approx.

Bass Reeves

paddysdream wrote: »

Flat rate refund (5.4%)on 1 billion is 54 million approx.

Sorry made a mistake it about 200 euro/ ton on prices quoted

richie123

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Sorry made a mistake it about 200 euro/ ton on prices quoted

Can anyone confirm the 1 billion euro value of uk imported irish beef and put to bed the argument that factories are creaming it once and for all.

Bass Reeves

richie123 wrote: »

Can anyone confirm the 1 billion euro value of uk imported irish beef and put to bed the argument that factories are creaming it once and for all.

AFAIK most is only estimated value. Beef processors use structures of registering there companies in the Isle of Man and Luxembourg so that there is very little verified data regarding profitability or pricing published.

Different structures are used with in these companies to further complicate the structures. For instance I taught I saw somewhere that the cash need to fund cashflow in some ABP companies come from other ABP and the interest rate is higher than bank lending.

paddysdream

richie123 wrote: »

Can anyone confirm the 1 billion euro value of uk imported irish beef and put to bed the argument that factories are creaming it once and for all.

Think it has to be a best estimate guesstimate.

paddysdream

Plus is it the value to Ireland Inc.,to the processor or the retail price in UK thats taken as the value?

paddysdream

Jjameson wrote: »

The beef plan boys had no vote . The disgruntled beef finisher ifa members who had two years of consecutive hammering perhaps including me!

A lot of BP are/were IFA members ,some die hard ones at that.

richie123

Bass Reeves wrote: »

AFAIK most is only estimated value. Beef processors use structures of registering there companies in the Isle of Man and Luxembourg so that there is very little verified data regarding profitability or pricing published.

Different structures are used with in these companies to further complicate the structures. For instance I taught I saw somewhere that the cash need to fund cashflow in some ABP companies come from other ABP and the interest rate is higher than bank lending.

I don't think there's much to it the value of beef gone to the UK 2019 was Around a billions worth for approximately 270000 tonnes.
Very easy work it out after that..unless I'm missing something big-time here, correct me away.

richie123

paddysdream wrote: »

Plus is it the value to Ireland Inc.,to the processor or the retail price in UK thats taken as the value?

It's surely paid to the processor in Ireland I would imagine.

Hard Knocks

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Farmers/Finishers continue to make one serious mistake they constantly buy cattle when processors are filing there sheds. I van never understand the gra to finish cattle for March/April if you have to replace them. It is economic suicide. However there is an element of some lads feeling trapped if they do not drop a double of cattle to the factor every week. .

If you find out when the processor’s are going buying, let us know so we can drive up the price on them

Bass Reeves

richie123 wrote: »

I don't think there's much to it the value of beef gone to the UK 2019 was Around a billions worth for approximately 270000 tonnes.
Very easy work it out after that..unless I'm missing something big-time here, correct me away.

Most figures to do with beef exports are estimated. Processor's or retailers do not publish much details of what is paid for what. If you have not got full details if what was the price and to who you are fumbling around in the dark. Beef may be moved to ABP companies in the UK and sold to retailers through them.

Bass Reeves

Hard Knocks wrote: »

If you find out when the processor’s are going buying, let us know so we can drive up the price on them

Processor's generally fill there feedlots in September/October to manage any gap in supply from Christmas to early February and again around then to manage supply during Spril-June

Base price

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Farmers/Finishers continue to make one serious mistake they constantly buy cattle when processors are filing there sheds. I van never understand the gra to finish cattle for March/April if you have to replace them. It is economic suicide. However there is an element of some lads feeling trapped if they do not drop a double of cattle to the factor every week.

On calves you will see most lads here think that in general some farmers are paying too much for calves. If you look at JEX calves it took 5 years+ for lads to understand you cannot buy them cheap enough. That is why calf slaughter number have gone from 600 to 15K since 2016 and are running over double 2019 year figures at present.

But dropping calf prices will not solve the problem for farmers . The lower the price of the calf the more likely that dairy farmers will go for more easier calving Bulls and you will get more and more ****ty AA calves. But sure that will be BP fault as well.




Jam it was not I that commented about the price of store in Jan/Feb. I pointed out the way when any downturn in prices happen these cattle exasperate the issue. in the US processors are not allowed to own or control feedlot units.

As some on F&F know we buy a few dairy bull calves to rear every year. We've noticed that a lot of the Friesian/Holstien herds that we used to buy from have introduced Jersey/Kiwi bloodlines into their herds in the last two/three years. The majority of those herds have daughters/sons that have entered into a parternishirp arrangement with their parents and have switched to JEx/Kiwi type cows.

Gawddawggonnit

Just loaded a truck with young bulls. Chx, limx and hex. Should grade R= at least. Base price €3.48 + vat.

lab man

wrangler wrote:

I wouldn't waste my time now trying to bully a factory ,they;ll do what they do and no one'll stop them

theyre was a time to stop them and the ifa took plenty off them to let them walk all over farmers

wrangler

lab man wrote: »

theyre was a time to stop them and the ifa took plenty off them to let them walk all over farmers

There was never a time, they're private companies and they do as they like.
Anytime I was in France beef was the same price here and sometimes even less in France.
I never agreed with protests but was always there but like last September the joke was on the farmers.
Why would anyone buy Irish beef now, Beef Plan have undermined every bit of it. Promotions, McDonalds and even the farmers management of the cattle . we're lucky to be selling it despite BPs efforts ....sad lot

Cavanjack

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Just loaded a truck with young bulls. Chx, limx and hex. Should grade R= at least. Base price €3.48 + vat.

Has the price dropped there much recently?

memorystick

I’ve a batch of 2 year old Friesan bullocks. Should I start them on meal for sale in June or July? €250 per ton for ration. 2-3 kgs per day wouldn’t be serious. Any advice greatly appreciated

whelan2

2 striploin steaks for €4 in lidl. 400g