beef price tracker

Farmer Pudsey

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

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What he said is he never kills bullock as there conversion rate is too poor. So in that case it is bulls and heifers he finishes. If it is bulls he is more than likely one of the lads waiting for the store price to collapse to buy. It has not happened yet.

This is the real target by the processors finishers will not fill sheds unless either stores are very cheap or they get a guaranteed contract price that will leave them a margin... or both.

Willfarman

I have read and re read his posts and I cannot see what he said or did to rise such an attacking.

CloughCasey1

Willfarman wrote: »

I have read and re read his posts and I cannot see what he said or did to rise such an attacking.

I'm not attacking the man but all he goes on about is prices and when is asked to share with us what his system is he goes missing.

Willfarman

It a price tracker thread though lad! Not a what system have you thread. His quotes and analogy have been totally accurate so far albeit not the news we want to hear!!

CloughCasey1

Willfarman wrote: »

It a price tracker thread though lad! Not a what system have you thread. His quotes and analogy have been totally accurate so far albeit not the news we want to hear!!

Tis indeed! But it's all linked. Quotes are 100% correct and price doesn't bother me too much as I'd only finish a few bulls u16mts each yr. I just don't like the fact that he seems to take joy in spreading Larrys gospel. You have the same views as him but you go about it a different way.

Willfarman

ah I'm a master debater! Pun intended! I'll take the compliment though thanks!!

Cassidy2

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Tis indeed! But it's all linked. Quotes are 100% correct and price doesn't bother me too much as I'd only finish a few bulls u16mts each yr. I just don't like the fact that he seems to take joy in spreading Larrys gospel. You have the same views as him but you go about it a different way.

You will be the last to hear about my system.the Larry derogatory are becoming at little last week.if you know what I mean 😉.I haven't got a cheque of Larry in years.

CloughCasey1

Cassidy2 wrote: »

You will be the last to hear about my system.the Larry derogatory are becoming at little last week.if you know what I mean 😉.I haven't got a cheque of Larry in years.

Fair nuf!! Can't get blood from a stone.

darragh_haven

€4.08/kg for a double bullocks sent away this evening. Had to send awsy as ground it cutting up here, and have a lot of replacements bought. Will have nothing to ready for at least a month.

My dad checked the book from last year, and we sent 15 bullocks away this time last year at €3.60

CloughCasey1

darragh_haven wrote: »

€4.08/kg for a double bullocks sent away this evening. Had to send awsy as ground it cutting up here, and have a lot of replacements bought. Will have nothing to ready for at least a month.

My dad checked the book from last year, and we sent 15 bullocks away this time last year at €3.60

Big change in 12 mts. ye happy with the base price of 4.08? Were they all fit to go?

darragh_haven

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Big change in 12 mts. ye happy with the base price of 4.08? Were they all fit to go?

Acceptable only. Wouldn't have sent a double at €4, All were fit bar 2, and those 2 were within 10 days of going overage and still close to being properly finished.

MfMan

Lucky to get 4.08 methinks. Would you have gotten it only for you had a double?

CloughCasey1

darragh_haven wrote: »

Acceptable only. Wouldn't have sent a double at €4, All were fit bar 2, and those 2 were within 10 days of going overage and still close to being properly finished.

No point in holding those two and sending over age and in a smaller load. Did ye have to push hard for the 8c?

darragh_haven

MfMan wrote: »

Lucky to get 4.08 methinks. Would you have gotten it only for you had a double?

No, Wouldn't have got €4.08 only for a double. Would have got €4.05 tho.

darragh_haven

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

No point in holding those two and sending over age and in a smaller load. Did ye have to push hard for the 8c?

True about the 2. There was a lot of back and forth to get that price. Very hard got.

tanko

darragh_haven wrote: »

No, Wouldn't have got €4.08 only for a double. Would have got €4.05 tho.

Excuse my ignorance, but can you say how many cattle are in a double?

darragh_haven

tanko wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but can you say how many cattle are in a double?

30

patsy_mccabe

Got €3.75 for 10 year old cow last week. Killed out at 373Kg and O+4+, so came into €1400 before deductions. Thought she would grade R and surprised she was 4+ on fat. I normally sell in the mart, by the way.


Post Edit - By deductions I mean the final ones like IFA etc, not grid deductions.

Farmer Pudsey

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Got €3.75 for 10 year old cow last week. Killed out at 373Kg and O+4+, so came into €1400 before deductions. Thought she would grade R and surprised she was 4+ on fat. I normally sell in the mart, by the way.

Finished P+ bullocks off the the advertised base of 4/kg would only make 3.7/kg and O- would make 3.76. If they were fat score 4= or 4+ they would be deducted another 6 and 12c/kg respectively and another 10-20c/kg if FS5. An O+ FS 5 bullock would be back to below that nearly depending on deduction for FS5. this just shows the messing that is going on.

westlander

Whats the difference between a flat price & a base price again?

It seems its always the base price that is quoted/given when we speak of the price per kg why is that?

(Not used of factory dealings)

Farmer Pudsey

westlander wrote: »

Whats the difference between a flat price & a base price again?

It seems its always the base price that is quoted/given when we speak of the price per kg why is that?

(Not used of factory dealings)

A flat price is when you get a flat price across all your cattle regardless of age, grade or fat score.

Below is a copy of it
https://www.slaneyfarmers.com/qps-grid

Majority of Irish cattle are O/P cattle from the dairy heard so as you can see from the grid these cattle are dropped faster than suckler cattle are risen on the grid. On top of that when an animal slips into FS4= they are penalized again. The 12c QA bonus is only paid on cattle within the shaded Area

Willfarman

Flat pricing is nigh on impossible to get from the larger processors unless dealing in doubles. You will get flat on cows to grade. Ie price for p ando r u regardless of fat score.
Smaller abattoirs will deal flat after viewing the cattle

after sending a good few plain cattle both ways I conclude that they fair out as good on the grid. Swings and roundabouts. Also note that these smaller places can be notoriously slow with the cheque,

Farmer Pudsey

Willfarman wrote: »

Flat pricing is nigh on impossible to get from the larger processors unless dealing in doubles. You will get flat on cows to grade. Ie price for p ando r u regardless of fat score.
Smaller abattoirs will deal flat after viewing the cattle

after sending a good few plain cattle both ways I conclude that they fair out as good on the grid. Swings and roundabouts. Also note that these smaller places can be notoriously slow with the cheque,

This is a huge issue with smaller abattoir type processors and butchers. You can be waiting 10 days plus to get paid with the attendant risk. IMO you would want a good price over the normal to carry that risk. However Kildare quotes flat and on the grid across grades locally. But cattle have to travel the night before generally if using the agents delivery trucks. This costs you 1-2% body weight.

westlander

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

A flat price is when you get a flat price across all your cattle regardless of age, grade or fat score.

Below is a copy of it
https://www.slaneyfarmers.com/qps-grid

Majority of Irish cattle are O/P cattle from the dairy heard so as you can see from the grid these cattle are dropped faster than suckler cattle are risen on the grid. On top of that when an animal slips into FS4= they are penalized again. The 12c QA bonus is only paid on cattle within the shaded Area

Thanks Pudsy. I was onto one of the smaller abattoirs yesterday. 4 euro per kg for steers only if they are under 420kgs!
Are these limits a load of cack!

Willfarman

westlander wrote: »

Thanks Pudsy. I was onto one of the smaller abattoirs yesterday. 4 euro per kg for steers only if they are under 420kgs!
Are these limits a load of cack!

What kind of cattle are they?

westlander

Willfarman wrote: »

What kind of cattle are they?

Charolais/Limo crosses Will all under the 30 months. Majority would be above 420kgs.

Willfarman

westlander wrote: »

Charolais/Limo crosses Will all under the 30 months. Majority would be above 420kgs.

Sound like good cattle! Are you QA?

simx

Any quotes for next week lads?

westlander

Willfarman wrote: »

Sound like good cattle! Are you QA?

Yes QA scheme only joined up recently

Willfarman

westlander wrote: »

Yes QA scheme only joined up recently

That's worth another .12 cent. And theres a chance they could gade better than R =. Ie r+ or better. They be better someplace on the grid if you could get 4.00 base.

greysides

that is some spiel of sh1t

[Mod]In a heated debate it's hard to know where to draw a line between passionate opinion and completely unacceptable rudeness.

And I'd prefer not to be put in a position to have to draw that line.

So far in this thread there has been to-and-fro and what could have been taken as bait has been let ride so the discussion could go on without being derailed. That's big of those affected.

However passionately you argue your case some degree of restraint is necessary in the language used.

It's a good to never post in anger, take a moment to cool down, then post.

Self-moderate or you will be moderated.[/Mod]

tim04750

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

. But cattle have to travel the night before generally if using the agents delivery trucks. This costs you 1-2% body weight.

And if your cattle are R- you'll see a good share drop to O

Sheep breeder

anybody thinks that the factory agent is doing them a favour by telling that the price is going to drop is only a fool, the agent will get his 10/15 euro on the animals he can secure for the factory and a bit more for his stock, at the end of the day he is a only out for himself.
why fellows dont deal direct with the factory them self is beyond me, all the big feeders deal direct themself.

Willfarman

Not everyone is competent or confident enough enough to judge their own cattle.

White Clover

Willfarman wrote: »

Not everyone is competent or confident enough enough to judge their own cattle.

Fair enough will for the first bunch or two, but after that if you can't figure it out for yourself I wouldn't hold out any hope !

Willfarman

I'd hold my own but there would be an awful lot of finishers that alway let an agent pick the cattle and book them in. Doesn't cost them anything and I can't see the harm in it.

tanko

White Clover wrote: »

Fair enough will for the first bunch or two, but after that if you can't figure it out for yourself I wouldn't hold out any hope !

Exactly, there's no better way to learn the difference between conformation grades and fat scores than to send your own cattle to a factory.
Anyway if you are getting paid on the grid the only thing that matters is the base price. You'd want to know your stuff if you're getting a flat price.

Farmer Pudsey

Sheep breeder wrote: »

anybody thinks that the factory agent is doing them a favour by telling that the price is going to drop is only a fool, the agent will get his 10/15 euro on the animals he can secure for the factory and a bit more for his stock, at the end of the day he is a only out for himself.
why fellows dont deal direct with the factory them self is beyond me, all the big feeders deal direct themself.

White Clover wrote: »

Fair enough will for the first bunch or two, but after that if you can't figure it out for yourself I wouldn't hold out any hope !

First off it sounds very easy to deal direct and judging sound easy as well. It easy enough if you breed yourself but trying to judge different breeds and sizes of cattle is not as easy as you think. Try buying out of a field.

An agent is a good buffer between you and the factory he also may arrange transport and maybe point out cattle that may up a grade fraction in 4-6 weeks.

Yes big finishers that send in cattle in doubles deal direct with factory but if you are only killing on and off then an agent may be a good idea. It is a buffer for factory procurement agents as well and may prevent arguments and letting off of steam that may be an issue if you cannot keep your cool.

Look at the way leaders of political party's only meet after all the dealing is done in the formation of a government.

Willfarman

Picking cattle at the correct fat score isn't a skill small finishers would have. Judging Bulls bullocks heifers and cows and even the different types of these all different. Something you have to be at regularly to keep an eye in. There will always be a need for agents. Some are descant some are rogues just as in every walk in life.

Farmer Pudsey

Sheep breeder wrote: »

anybody thinks that the factory agent is doing them a favour by telling that the price is going to drop is only a fool, the agent will get his 10/15 euro on the animals he can secure for the factory and a bit more for his stock, at the end of the day he is a only out for himself.
why fellows dont deal direct with the factory them self is beyond me, all the big feeders deal direct themself.

As far as I know and I may be wrong agents get 5-6 euro/head for the procurement of cattle. They have to let the the procurement manager what they intend to supply that week. At times of peak supply they will be given quota's that they are allowed supply.

I heard a story of an agent that was a drinking buddy of a procurement manager. He used to promise flat prices and prices above managers prices. There was then war over prices paid to suppliers. The procurement manager barred him from supplying buddy or not.

cute geoge

I only finish a few cows ,that are sent with an agent
This year had my cows ready and agent gave a gander at them and i mentioned i had another holstein cow which might be fit after a month or two
Anyway he ran his hand on her ribs which were slightly showing and he said she was good enough ,i was pleasently when she graded o+4 He showed his experience anyway

CloughCasey1

cute geoge wrote: »

I only finish a few cows ,that are sent with an agent
This year had my cows ready and agent gave a gander at them and i mentioned i had another holstein cow which might be fit after a month or two
Anyway he ran his hand on her ribs which were slightly showing and he said she was good enough ,i was pleasently when she graded o+4 He showed his experience anyway

Our local lad is a fair judge of cattle. He never fails to get fat score or grade right. He has often told us to "let those go to over 30mts and have them with next batch" usually the tall lanky ones and they always come into big money at 34/35mts. This time round we had one frx in particular that i (in my ignorance) mentioned could be kept with the next lot and he took out phone costed up the different scenarios and said no. He's O3= by 35 mts he'll be too fat and base won't be 4.30! Ye wont make a penny extra.

Sheep breeder

from my time working in factories on the east coast the agents were on 10/15 and as i am aware they are still the same.
most fellas finishing cattle will know the killout/fatscore etc of animal.
a friend of ours that fattens 50 cattle a year part time will tell you the grade/killout and value of any animal at a quick glance and says if its your business you will learn.
how do most sheep farmers going to a factory pick lambs, they dont get an agent to do it for them or how does a dairy farmer condition score cows.

Cassidy2

Willfarman wrote: »

Picking cattle at the correct fat score isn't a skill small finishers would have. Judging Bulls bullocks heifers and cows and even the different types of these all different. Something you have to be at regularly to keep an eye in. There will always be a need for agents. Some are descant some are rogues just as in every walk in life.

How many people go up the line and watch there cattle.in my opinion it very important.you have followed them this far,you should follow them up the line.

patsy_mccabe

Cassidy2 wrote: »

How many people go up the line and watch there cattle.in my opinion it very important.you have followed them this far,you should follow them up the line.

In the old days when we finished a few cattle, I used to do that. You're right, well worth it.
I was talking to a guy I know that finishes a lot of cattle and he said he doesn't bother. He has confidence enough in the computer system to trust it. In the old days, it was the guy standing there writing down the weights that you had to watch.

Whatever about judging the grades/fat scores of finished animals, it's being able to judge how a store animal will finish up that's the real moneymaker.

Willfarman

In the old days you could appeal the grader. The current system is brutal. I write down all numbers with what animal was which and compare after.

Sheep breeder

agree about following the cattle on the line, the only way to really understand how cattle grade and killout is to see them on the line and then you can see how different breeds have done over the feeding period.you dont need an agent for this the most important part of finishing cattle and when you have got your eye in you will not need to do it maybe only once a year. this is where the money is made out of cattle.

Cassidy2

Sheep breeder wrote: »

agree about following the cattle on the line, the only way to really understand how cattle grade and killout is to see them on the line and then you can see how different breeds have done over the feeding period.you dont need an agent for this the most important part of finishing cattle and when you have got your eye in you will not need to do it maybe only once a year. this is where the money is made out of cattle.

I have seen black cattle die better than charlaois .i see people working the calculator.i work a different calculator.

CloughCasey1

Cassidy2 wrote: »

I have seen black cattle die better than charlaois .i see people working the calculator.i work a different calculator.

And would you like to share this information? ;-)

I said

Cassidy2 wrote: »

I have seen black cattle die better than charlaois .i see people working the calculator.i work a different calculator.

Lord I'm converted,the wheel has been reinvented.what is your system that is a one size fits all.