Shady Dealer

JoeRadd

PauloMN wrote: »

MidlandsM wrote: »

the sheriff?? lol ...........that's my point, yer mans probably knows the sheriff by first name at this stage of his car sales career........don't be fooled into thinking it'll all be a formality.........far from it.

So he should just do nothing?

@OP - did you do a mileage check on that car? Quite possible it's clocked, especially if from the UK. You should of course do all the checks before you pay a cent, but if you haven't done so already, it would be worth checking.

It's a digital set up and for the price of the car I'm sure they didn't bother

coylemj

ants09 wrote: »

If he goes out of business then your a secured creditor and if there is no funds available and he opens up another car dealership then you lift the vail of incorporation of the company and then the debt is enforceable

How is he a secured creditor? You can only be a secured creditor if you lend money to someone under a loan secured against specific assets which give you the first rights to claim that asset if the company goes under. The OP is a trade (i.e. unsecured) creditor which give him no rights at all if the place goes under.

And doesn't limited liability mean the owner is insulated from the debts of the old company unless you can show reckless trading? Selling a turkey of a car isn't something that is going to follow the guy to the grave. He can and probably already has walked away from worse, he's still in business and is thumbing his nose at a customer who has a legitimate complaint. His attitude clearly shows that he has no fear of the legal process.

MidlandsM

ants09 wrote: »

even better JoeRadd that he's a sole trader as then he's liable for all debts

nothing is enforcable/liable if any debt/court order can not be collected from him........he can duck and dive for years, buy which time the OP achieves nothing.

This guy has the OP in a corner, and he knows it.

ants09

coylemj wrote: »

How is he a secured creditor? You can only be a secured creditor if you lend money to someone under a loan secured against specific assets which give you the first rights to claim that asset if the company goes under. The OP is a trade (i.e. unsecured) creditor which give him no rights at all if the place goes under.

And doesn't limited liability mean the owner is insulated from the debts of the old company unless you can show reckless trading? Selling a turkey of a car isn't something that is going to follow the guy to the grave. He can and probably already has walked away from worse, he's still in business and is thumbing his nose at a customer who has a legitimate complaint. His attitude clearly shows that he has no fear of the legal process.

court judgements are secured creditors which it would be if the OP wins the small claims court

as for limited liability well your part right but a court can lift a vail of incorporation of a company and they dont take it likely if its found out that the owners are trying to dodge debts especially court findings but then again the OP said he's a sole trader so end of discussion as going of in tangents

coylemj

dharn wrote: »

surely if sold as seen was written on receipt and the buyer did not mention warranty,( he has admitted that here,) he has a very poor case ,i know the dealer is not covered in glory either, he only cancelled the engine light warning rather than fixing the cause but, as i said i think op has weak case

The OP didn't sign anything with 'sold as seen' on it, those words were on the receipt which the dealer handed to the OP when he was leaving.

The legal provision for the 'sold as seen' situation is as follows...

(3) Subsection (2) of this section shall not apply where—

(a) it is agreed between the seller and the buyer that the vehicle is not intended for use in the condition in which it is to be delivered to the buyer under the contract, and

(b) a document consisting of a statement to that effect is signed by or on behalf of the seller and the buyer and given to the buyer prior to or at the time of such delivery, and

(c) it is shown that the agreement referred to in paragraph (a) is fair and reasonable.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/sec0013.html#sec13

Since the OP did not sign any such document, the 'sold as seen' words on the receipt have no legal effect.

ants09

MidlandsM wrote: »

nothing is enforcable/liable if any debt/court order can not be collected from him........he can duck and dive for years, buy which time the OP achieves nothing.

This guy has the OP in a corner, and he knows it.

says you but your entitle to your opinion but some would say the otherwise if the OP does secure a court judgement

JoeRadd

coylemj wrote: »

dharn wrote: »

surely if sold as seen was written on receipt and the buyer did not mention warranty,( he has admitted that here,) he has a very poor case ,i know the dealer is not covered in glory either, he only cancelled the engine light warning rather than fixing the cause but, as i said i think op has weak case

The OP didn't sign anything with 'sold as seen' on it, those words were on the receipt which the dealer handed to the OP when he was leaving.

The legal provision for the 'sold as seen' situation is as follows...

(3) Subsection (2) of this section shall not apply where—

(a) it is agreed between the seller and the buyer that the vehicle is not intended for use in the condition in which it is to be delivered to the buyer under the contract, and

(b) a document consisting of a statement to that effect is signed by or on behalf of the seller and the buyer and given to the buyer prior to or at the time of such delivery, and

(c) it is shown that the agreement referred to in paragraph (a) is fair and reasonable.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/sec0013.html#sec13

Since the OP did not sign any such document, the 'sold as seen' words on the receipt have no legal effect.

That's very well put, think I should point the dealer to this thread?

ants09

ants09 wrote: »

says you but your entitle to your opinion but some would say the otherwise if the OP does secure a court judgement

Until the OP finds out what is wrong with the car all this talk about court judgements etc isn't really overly relevant. The OP needs to have that done asap if not before than :pac:

ants09

RoverJames wrote: »

Until the OP finds out what is wrong with the car all this talk about court judgements etc isn't really overly relevant. The OP needs to have that done asap if not before than :pac:

Thats very true

newmug

J K wrote: »

I'm looking for a new car actually. And I want to avoic these dodgy as fcuk people. Would you have anything for me newmug?

JoeRadd wrote: »

Dont know what your job is but its gonna be better than mine if you can afford new cars

Eh, Donedeal and a mechanic, thats what everyone does.

RoverJames wrote: »

Main dealers give private sellers rock bottom prices too, many dealers won't retail cars over a certain age, doesn't mean the cars are junk. Main dealers sell plenty of cars without service histories

Many indie dealers are quite reputable and value their reputation and have no problem whatsoever honouring a warranty

There are good and bad in all professions, the dodgy 2nd hand car salesman isn't as common as many posters on boards.ie would have you believe.

Maybe. But in my personal experience, I've never, ever, ever EVER, came across an honest used car dealer. Ever.

newmug

newmug wrote: »

............

Maybe. But in my personal experience, I've never, ever, ever EVER, came across an honest used car dealer. Ever.

Sample size Saying never, ever, ever EVER doesn't really make the point any more significant :pac:

newmug wrote: »

Eh, Donedeal and a mechanic, thats what everyone does..............

Everyone does not do that, again, sample size.

MidlandsM

newmug wrote: »

But in my personal experience, I've never, ever, ever EVER, came across an honest used car dealer. Ever.

it's not my fault you live a sheltered and reclusive existance

newmug

coylemj wrote: »

Don't crack open the champagne just yet. Read the post just before yours (from whippet), he will go bust and open under a new name the next day. Any judgement will be unenforcable. That's why these people operate from portakabins, even the office they operate from is portable so they can up sticks and disappear off the face of the earth or open under a new name.

Why is that? Irish law is so fcuked up sometimes!

And @MidlandsM and Roverjames, you two fellas seem to be standing up for the dealer that ripped off the OP. Not good for the image of yourselves or your industry as a whole. You do know he took the OP for a sucker?

-Chris-

newmug wrote: »

And @MidlandsM and Roverjames, you two fellas seem to be standing up for the dealer that ripped off the OP. Not good for the image of yourselves or your industry as a whole. You do know he took the OP for a sucker?

Attack the post, not the poster(s) please.

johnos1984

newmug wrote: »

Why is that? Irish law is so fcuked up sometimes!

And @MidlandsM and Roverjames, you two fellas seem to be standing up for the dealer that ripped off the OP. Not good for the image of yourselves or your industry as a whole. You do know he took the OP for a sucker?

They haven't in fairness they have merely pointed out a few dealers give the whole industry a bad name. In fairness where money and cars are concerned nobody can be fully trusted.

OP bought a car without fully checking it out and has been given the best advice possible at this point on how to proceed. He was advised not to go back to the dealer until he knew exactly what was wrong as determined by an independent mechanic and he choose to not do that. Referencing boards and opinion in his email will get him nowhere.

Also only one of the posters you name checked has any link to the motor trade

newmug

newmug wrote: »

...........

And @MidlandsM and Roverjames, you two fellas seem to be standing up for the dealer that ripped off the OP. Not good for the image of yourselves or your industry as a whole. You do know he took the OP for a sucker?

Where did I stand up for the this specific dealer? I disagreed with a few points you made as they are based solely on your experiences with car dealers, I pointed out your opinion was based on a fairly limited sample size, I don't recall standing up for this specific dealer anywhere in this thread Please do show me posts to the contrary from myself or MidlandsM for that matter as he has not stood up for the dealer either from what I've read on here.

I don't see how anything I have said here reflects badly on my industry to be honest, I don't work in the motor trade :pac:

I've mentioned to the OP repeatedly that he needs to find out what is actually wrong with the car and to do that as a matter of urgency (sooner than asap iirc how I phrased it), I'd consider that good advice at this stage as he doesn't have a clue what is wrong with it at the moment and the dealer isn't fixing it.

MidlandsM

newmug wrote: »

Why is that? Irish law is so fcuked up sometimes!

And @MidlandsM and Roverjames, you two fellas seem to be standing up for the dealer that ripped off the OP. Not good for the image of yourselves or your industry as a whole. You do know he took the OP for a sucker?

ahhh come on, I'm not defending the dealer of alledged shady dealings.
I'm just pointing out in no uncertain terms, that following this dealer via the court is not like LA LAW on the Telly.........it's very different.

And you need to apologize to the OP also for calling him a Sucker.......:rolleyes:

George Dalton

newmug wrote: »

Eh, Donedeal and a mechanic, thats what everyone does.

I disagree totally with you. Must be something to do with seeing people bringing in tarted up heap of shyte "bargains" they bought on donedeal to us for repair/miracle working on a regular basis.

In my opinion you are much more likely to end up buying a lemon off donedeal than a garage. Only difference is with donedeal you have absolutely zero chance of any comeback.

JoeRadd

Guys Guys Guys,

Its a work week, im getting the car looked at on the weekend, all i know is the check engine light is on and the agreement that whatever caused it to be on was fixed.

I personally want to know what's causing it but the dealer made a deal to fix what ever the hell is causing no matter what.

he shouldn't have said this if he didn't want to do it.

Heres the invoice if anyones interested, all i have blocked out are name/address of me/dealer and the car reg and price. No signatures or extra info has been covered.

http://imgur.com/sv58r

As always im appreciating the advice even if it is not to my liking.

dharn

coylemj.. thanks for that info, thats very interesting and should help the op, the dealer obviously tried to pull a fast one ,so op probably has statutory 3 month warranty

JoeRadd

johnos1984 wrote: »

They haven't in fairness they have merely pointed out a few dealers give the whole industry a bad name. In fairness where money and cars are concerned nobody can be fully trusted.

OP bought a car without fully checking it out and has been given the best advice possible at this point on how to proceed. He was advised not to go back to the dealer until he knew exactly what was wrong as determined by an independent mechanic and he choose to not do that. Referencing boards and opinion in his email will get him nowhere.

Also only one of the posters you name checked has any link to the motor trade

I didn't reference boards, i referenced the link I was kindly provided to the citizens info sales and trade section. all i said was politely was Fix it, Refund it or pay me back when i get it fixed. failing that im going to small claims court

newmug

Is it not the case that you have 30 days "cooling off" period by law, no matter what you buy? So even going by that, could you not have thrown up the whole thing and got your money back?

newmug

newmug wrote: »

.....................

have a peak at post #107 while you're here

whippet

newmug wrote: »

Is it not the case that you have 30 days "cooling off" period by law, no matter what you buy? by that, could you not have thrown up the whole thing and got your money back?

It's not the case .... Where would you even hear anything like that?

It's hard enough for retailers out there ..imagine how impossible something like that would make it

newmug

whippet wrote: »

It's not the case .... Where would you even hear anything like that?

It's hard enough for retailers out there ..imagine how impossible something like that would make it

A little place called "school".

George Dalton

I am pretty sure that cooling off period only applies to items purchased online.

MidlandsM

George Dalton wrote: »

I am pretty sure that cooling off period only applies to items purchased online.

think so, and financial products.

whippet

newmug wrote: »

A little place called "school".

jaysus ..... hopefully what ever teachers thought you that one are retiring at the end of the feb.

Sure you weren't day dreaming that day?

There is now such law what so ever.

The only thing close to it would be the distance selling rule which cover phone and internet sales .. and it's 7 days.

EU Distance selling directive

you might want to have a chat with your teacher or read over your notes for that day again

L-M

JoeRadd wrote: »

http://imgur.com/sv58r

As always im appreciating the advice even if it is not to my liking.

"Trade sale" is irrelevant, as you're not in the trade and that doesn't apply.

"Sold as seen" obviously, the car you bought you bought knowing that you were buying it as you saw it?

They way i see it, warranty on a motor vehicle is offered age and mileage dependant. Maybe if you'd bought a 07 Saab 95 (maybe you did) and paid a little over the odds for that piece of mind then he should look after you. But buying a car that's 10 years old for the price of a pedal bike, i wouldn't expect much of a comeback.

All that said, a friend of mine knows a good lot about Saabs so if you do happen to find out what's causing the engine management light, don't hesitate to send me a PM.

randy hickey

Any updates for us JoeRadd?
Interested to know how this pans out.