Smoking Housemate - Need Advice

fisgon

I'm about to move into a new house. When I enquired from the landlady, she said the two current occupants were non smokers. I went over yesterday to pick up the keys and there in the kitchen was one of the guys who lives there smoking, with two butts in the ashtray. The landlady was there too.

I don't like smoking and would prefer not to live with a smoker. I could still back out of the house, I haven't paid any rent yet. But I was thinking, why should I? The house suits me in every way, it's cheap, roomy, comfortable, I have a big room, it's central. I also don't have to sign a lease, or pay a big deposit , so that's an advantage.

The way I see it, smoking in a house is a privilege, not a right, though I know a lot of smokers see it as the other way around. The other guy has only been there four months, it's not as if he's a long term resident. I don't see why his need to smoke trumps my right not to have to inhale his fumes.

Anyway, that's the theory. I thought I'd give it a go and see what happens. We may be able to reach some kind of compromise. What do people thing are my rights here, and how should I approach the subject. Personally, smoking in a kitchen is totally disgusting, I can't imagine why anyone would do it. Interested to hear what thoughts people have on this.

Ray Palmer

fisgon wrote: »

I'm about to move into a new house. When I enquired from the landlady, she said the two current occupants were non smokers. I went over yesterday to pick up the keys and there in the kitchen was one of the guys who lives there smoking, with two butts in the ashtray. The landlady was there too.

Why move in? THe LL obviously lied and you are just going to casue conflict. There are smokers in the house before you and you expect to come in and change that:rolleyes: It won't end well.

What ever you think about rights, the people in a place before you right the rules and you won't get to change them without many arguments

Zamboni

fisgon wrote: »

I'm about to move into a new house. When I enquired from the landlady, she said the two current occupants were non smokers. I went over yesterday to pick up the keys and there in the kitchen was one of the guys who lives there smoking, with two butts in the ashtray. The landlady was there too.

I don't like smoking and would prefer not to live with a smoker. I could still back out of the house, I haven't paid any rent yet. But I was thinking, why should I? The house suits me in every way, it's cheap, roomy, comfortable, I have a big room, it's central. I also don't have to sign a lease, or pay a big deposit , so that's an advantage.

The way I see it, smoking in a house is a privilege, not a right, though I know a lot of smokers see it as the other way around. The other guy has only been there four months, it's not as if he's a long term resident. I don't see why his need to smoke trumps my right not to have to inhale his fumes.

Anyway, that's the theory. I thought I'd give it a go and see what happens. We may be able to reach some kind of compromise. What do people thing are my rights here, and how should I approach the subject. Personally, smoking in a kitchen is totally disgusting, I can't imagine why anyone would do it. Interested to hear what thoughts people have on this.

You have no rights.
You are aware that there is a smoker in the house and it is obvious the landlady lied to you about it.
But you cannot force her to enforce a non smoking rule in her own property.
You can ask her and hope for the best or you can walk away.

Bottle_of_Smoke

fisgon wrote: »

The way I see it, smoking in a house is a privilege, not a right, though I know a lot of smokers see it as the other way around. The other guy has only been there four months, it's not as if he's a long term resident. I don't see why his need to smoke trumps my right not to have to inhale his fumes.

I had to laugh a bit here. There is no human right about not smoking.

Landlady lied. She probably told the other guy it was ok to smoke in the house. Tenants are hard to come by - she won't kick him out over this.

I know what smokers are like. Even if he agreed with you to smoke outside (which is unlikely given the circumstances) he will still continue to occasionallu smoke in the kitchen if he's drunk or its cold etc.

Don't move into that house unless you're happy with that scenario

astrofool

fisgon wrote: »

I'm about to move into a new house. When I enquired from the landlady, she said the two current occupants were non smokers. I went over yesterday to pick up the keys and there in the kitchen was one of the guys who lives there smoking, with two butts in the ashtray. The landlady was there too.

I don't like smoking and would prefer not to live with a smoker. I could still back out of the house, I haven't paid any rent yet. But I was thinking, why should I? The house suits me in every way, it's cheap, roomy, comfortable, I have a big room, it's central. I also don't have to sign a lease, or pay a big deposit , so that's an advantage.

The way I see it, smoking in a house is a privilege, not a right, though I know a lot of smokers see it as the other way around. The other guy has only been there four months, it's not as if he's a long term resident. I don't see why his need to smoke trumps my right not to have to inhale his fumes.

Anyway, that's the theory. I thought I'd give it a go and see what happens. We may be able to reach some kind of compromise. What do people thing are my rights here, and how should I approach the subject. Personally, smoking in a kitchen is totally disgusting, I can't imagine why anyone would do it. Interested to hear what thoughts people have on this.

You should back out if someone is smoking, and the landlady condones it. It's not going to get any better.

Might be worth posting a new thread, rather than resurrect an old one (though NickDrake never did update on the final outcome).

whydoibother?

Whenever you have an issue with another housemates behaviour, if at all possible, try to resolve it with the person themselves before "reporting" them (as they will see it). There will never be a good atmosphere in the house afterwards if they feel you didn't give them a fair chance. If they refuse to be reasonable, then by all means go to the landlord.

meglome

John_Mc wrote: »

Opening a window will only blow the smoke into the house, ...

A friend of a friend smokes hash in his room out the window and you can clearly smell it all over the house.

Cuddlesworth

whydoibother? wrote: »

Whenever you have an issue with another housemates behaviour, if at all possible, try to resolve it with the person themselves before "reporting" them (as they will see it). There will never be a good atmosphere in the house afterwards if they feel you didn't give them a fair chance. If they refuse to be reasonable, then by all means go to the landlord.

He's just moving in and asking a attaching a condition to a current resident. It would be reasonable of the other guy to tell him no.

Victor

Thread split.

Stavro Mueller

I think you should back out. For starters, if you've got a smoker in the house, it will make the house and the soft furnishings smell to some extent. If someone smokes in the house, chances are you will smell the smoke no matter where you are.

Secondly, do you really want to start getting on the wrong side of people you're going to be living with? The smoker isn't breaking any laws. The only person at fault here is the landlady for telling you lies. He might not even know what she told you.

amdublin

Don't move in.

the_syco

fisgon wrote: »

I went over yesterday to pick up the keys and there in the kitchen was one of the guys who lives there smoking, with two butts in the ashtray. The landlady was there too.

You can ask him not to smoke, butt he can tell you to go f**k yourself :P

The landlord knows the other person smokes, and doesn't care. They don't care that you want a non-smoking house, so I doubt they'll be the nicest sort of landlord that you could get.

Pkiernan

OP: you remind me of a couple who moved into a house in California adjacent to a shooting range I volunteered at.

The range has been there since the 1940's. The couple moved in in 2004, fully aware of the existence of the shooting range.

They promptly tried to get the range shut down because of the noise. These muppets promptly lost in Court and had to bear costs.

dermiek

You could always start smoking. :rolleyes:

patwicklow

live in the shed:D

whydoibother?

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

He's just moving in and asking a attaching a condition to a current resident. It would be reasonable of the other guy to tell him no.

In that case, it might be reasonable for the other guy to tell the landlord "no" too, so it might be that the only way of making it happen would be to appeal to the guys sense of decency - don't start by p*ssing him off.

Ray Palmer

whydoibother? wrote: »

In that case, it might be reasonable for the other guy to tell the landlord "no" too, so it might be that the only way of making it happen would be to appeal to the guys sense of decency - don't start by p*ssing him off.

It is perfectly reasonable to choose not to rent the place now. THe problem is he is saying he will make an issue once he moves in . Nobody's "decency" is in question, the guy moving in simply can't ask for a new rule about smoking.

simit

If I were you I'd look for somewhere else. You're just going to make yourself unpopular and be unhappy living there.

whydoibother?

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is perfectly reasonable to choose not to rent the place now. THe problem is he is saying he will make an issue once he moves in . Nobody's "decency" is in question, the guy moving in simply can't ask for a new rule about smoking.

If he's collecting the keys, has he not already committed?

fisgon

I'm the OP, and have backed out. I think that was good advice. Thanks to those that contributed. I had collected the keys, but hadn't paid any rent yet.

I agree that I would have had no leg to stand on in asking the guy to not smoke. I have no doubt that that would not have worked. I know smokers, and even if they are not thick and inconsiderate people, they become thick and inconsiderate when it comes to their smoking, believing, unless told or asked otherwise, that they have the right to smoke where- and whenever they like. It's part of the psychology of the addiction.

In theory though, do people think that a non smoker, in moving into a house where someone smokes, is reasonable to ask that the smoker not smoke in the kitchen? Or ask for some sort of compromise? That the smoker doesn't smoke while they are eating, for example? Just interested what people think, hypothetically. There was some talk in the thread of what is 'reasonable'. (Personally I stand by my assertion that smoking is a privilege, not a right, in any circumstance, or at least should be).

athtrasna

fisgon wrote: »

In theory though, do people think that a non smoker, in moving into a house where someone smokes, is reasonable to ask that the smoker not smoke in the kitchen? Or ask for some sort of compromise? That the smoker doesn't smoke while they are eating, for example? Just interested what people think, hypothetically. There was some talk in the thread of what is 'reasonable'. (Personally I stand by my assertion that smoking is a privilege, not a right, in any circumstance, or at least should be).

Put the shoe on the other foot, you're living in a nice house and a stranger moves in and starts to dictate or strongly suggest you change something you do and always have done, how would you feel.

If you are a non smoker and clearly not happy with people smoking in the house, it really would be easier to find a non-smoking house.

I'm sure that there are some habits that you have that the existing people in the house wouldn't like - maybe you should declare these on your part too...

i.e. this is a ridiculous argument - the people in there are the incumbents - you are proposing to move into the situation - you have to accept the current situation...

fisgon

glasso wrote: »

I'm sure that there are some habits that you have that the existing people in the house wouldn't like - maybe you should declare these on your part too...

i.e. this is a ridiculous argument - the people in there are the incumbents - you are proposing to move into the situation - you have to accept the current situation...

First of all, I'm not proposing to move in anywhere, it's a hypothetical situation.

Secondly, my position is that smoking is not just a 'habit', like humming, or leaving your dirty dishes in the sink. It's much more than that. Smoking causes actual physical harm to those who have to inhale second hand smoke. That's why I say that it's a privilege, not a right.

A non-smoker has no choice if in a room with a smoker about whether he wants to have tobacco smoke inflicted on him, and so risks actual physical discomfort or harm from this other person's 'habit'. You can't say that about someone leaving their dirty cereal bowls around.

conorhal

fisgon wrote: »

I'm the OP, and have backed out. I think that was good advice. Thanks to those that contributed. I had collected the keys, but hadn't paid any rent yet.

I agree that I would have had no leg to stand on in asking the guy to not smoke. I have no doubt that that would not have worked. I know smokers, and even if they are not thick and inconsiderate people, they become thick and inconsiderate when it comes to their smoking, believing, unless told or asked otherwise, that they have the right to smoke where- and whenever they like. It's part of the psychology of the addiction.

In theory though, do people think that a non smoker, in moving into a house where someone smokes, is reasonable to ask that the smoker not smoke in the kitchen? Or ask for some sort of compromise? That the smoker doesn't smoke while they are eating, for example? Just interested what people think, hypothetically. There was some talk in the thread of what is 'reasonable'. (Personally I stand by my assertion that smoking is a privilege, not a right, in any circumstance, or at least should be).

I think you made the right call, but please reserve you ire for the landlord that lied to you.

I suspect that there is a house full of lads out who have no idea how narrowly they have avoided having to endure an insufferable self appointed house matron. It seems that smokers are not the only people that feel it's reasonable to impose themselves on others in any given scenario, warranted or otherwise.

Your attitude reminds me of a guy I encountered on a ski slope in France a couple of years ago.

I was sitting on a snow bank minding my own damn business having a cigarette when some bloke standing about five feet away starts to tut and points at me, loudly proclaiming for his son’s benefit (and seemingly mine and everybody else’s too), ‘you see Tommy, if you were a smoker you wouldn’t have the stamina to ski or enjoy life either’

Irritated, I stood up, eyeballed the guy and said, ‘Tommy, your dad is absolutely right, it’s a filthy habit and it will kill you, but not nearly as quickly as behaving like a smug self-righteous asshat. Because people like that frequently get pushed off the side of a mountain’.

TheBunk1

I'm a smoker and I live in rented accommodation where there is a no smoking policy. I go outside for a cigarette when I want one, bar the odd time there is a party or something and I don't mind. I'm used to not smoking inside the house and in pubs. If I moved into a "smoking" house though, I would smoke inside and definitely wouldn't be stopping for someone who knew people smoked, disagreed with it and moved in regardless.

Your attitude reminds me of a guy I encountered on a ski slope in France a couple of years ago.
I was sitting on a snow bank minding my own damn business having a cigarette when some bloke standing about five feet away starts to tut and points at me, loudly proclaiming for his son’s benefit (and seemingly mine and everybody else’s too), ‘you see Tommy, if you were a smoker you wouldn’t have the stamina to ski or enjoy life either’
Irritated, I stood up, eyeballed the guy and said, ‘Tommy, your dad is absolutely right, it’s a filthy habit and it will kill you, but not nearly as quickly as behaving like a smug self-righteous asshat. Because people like that frequently get pushed off the side of a mountain’.

Hate s**t like that. People complaining about smoke when they're outdoors. I was at a work conference in a hotel recently and went for a smoke in the smoking area attached to the function room. I was the only one there and some woman came out and says to her friend "Oh, we won't get much fresh air here.." Of course you won't, you clown, you're in a f**king smoking area!

fro9etb8j5qsl2

fisgon wrote: »

I know smokers, and even if they are not thick and inconsiderate people, they become thick and inconsiderate when it comes to their smoking, believing, unless told or asked otherwise, that they have the right to smoke where- and whenever they like.

Sweeping self righteous holier than thou generalization??? Or is it just the few smokers you are acquainted with that magically transform into Dr Jekyll type ignorant pricks when a cigarette is waved under their noses?

fisgon wrote: »

It's part of the psychology of the addiction.

And you would know this because of your vast experience of NOT SMOKING?? :rolleyes:

fisgon wrote: »

In theory though, do people think that a non smoker, in moving into a house where someone smokes, is reasonable to ask that the smoker not smoke in the kitchen? Or ask for some sort of compromise?

Not when the non smoker has an attitude like this-

fisgon wrote: »

I know smokers, and even if they are not thick and inconsiderate people, they become thick and inconsiderate when it comes to their smoking, believing, unless told or asked otherwise, that they have the right to smoke where- and whenever they like.

Bottom line? If you have that much of a chip on your shoulder about people smoking in the house then move in with non smokers.....

fisgon

conorhal wrote: »

I think you made the right call, but please reserve you ire for the landlord that lied to you.

I suspect that there is a house full of lads out who have no idea how narrowly they have avoided having to endure an insufferable self appointed house matron. It seems that smokers are not the only people that feel it's reasonable to impose themselves on others in any given scenario, warranted or otherwise.


Your attitude reminds me of a guy I encountered on a ski slope in France a couple of years ago.
I was sitting on a snow bank minding my own damn business having a cigarette when some bloke standing about five feet away starts to tut and points at me, loudly proclaiming for his son’s benefit (and seemingly mine and everybody else’s too), ‘you see Tommy, if you were a smoker you wouldn’t have the stamina to ski or enjoy life either’
Irritated, I stood up, eyeballed the guy and said, ‘Tommy, your dad is absolutely right, it’s a filthy habit and it will kill you, but not nearly as quickly as behaving like a smug self-righteous asshat. Because people like that frequently get pushed off the side of a mountain’.

Oh please, spare me your smokers' martyr complex. There is no comparison between someone complaining about smoking inside and someone smoking outside. The complaint from the guy on the slopes was ignorant, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic in question. We're talking about housemates, where one person has no choice but to breathe in the passive smoke from the smoker, and where both people are paying the same rent. Your post is totally off topic, and betrays an inability to look at the question objectively.

fisgon

Elias Ambitious Ponytail wrote: »

And you would know this because of your vast experience of NOT SMOKING?? :rolleyes:

I know, and have known, lots of smokers. In family, and friends. Vast majority are good people, but have no consideration when it comes to smoking, and have to be reminded often that non-smokers are actually bothered by smoke.

It comes from having to admit that smoking is harmful and annoying to some people. If smokers did that, they would have to face up to the fact that smoking is also harming the smoker themselves, and this doesn't sit well with an easy conscience and feeding the addiction. So they pretend that their habit is just that, a habit, that is harmless and benign, and that anyone who complains is prissy and whining. This attitude helps with the denial that most smokers have to engage in to keep on smoking.

Elias Ambitious Ponytail wrote: »

Bottom line? If you have that much of a chip on your shoulder about people smoking in the house then move in with non smokers.....

If you would actually read my posts, I'm not moving in with smokers. I turned down the house. It's very clear in what I posted. The situation I mentioned was a hypothetical situation. Do you want me to explain 'hypothetical'?

Grolschevik

fisgon wrote: »

In theory though, do people think that a non smoker, in moving into a house where someone smokes, is reasonable to ask that the smoker not smoke in the kitchen?

Ok, to address your hypothetical: no, if the non-smoker is moving into a house where a smoker already resides, it is not reasonable to request this, in my opinion.

If, however, two of you are moving in at the same time, and one is a smoker, then it is reasonable to negotiate some ground rules or a compromise.

conorhal

fisgon wrote: »

Oh please, spare me your smokers' martyr complex. There is no comparison between someone complaining about smoking inside and someone smoking outside. The complaint from the guy on the slopes was ignorant, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic in question. We're talking about housemates, where one person has no choice but to breathe in the passive smoke from the smoker, and where both people are paying the same rent. Your post is totally off topic, and betrays an inability to look at the question objectively.

"Spare me your smokers' martyr complex"?

The only person I see pulling a St. Sebastian routine here is you.

"There is no comparison between someone complaining about smoking inside and someone smoking outside"

The comparision was the similarity in your atttude of entitlement and superiority and the assumption that you could walk into an established situation and demand that everybody else should change to suit your sensibilities.
You can correct me if I'm wrong, but the jist of your OP was essentially, 'I've found the perfect house, but it turns out it's full of smokers, how can I best force them out the back door?'.
You do have have a choice as to whether or not you are 'forced' to endure passive smoke in that scenario, you can choose (as you rightly did) not to take the room and instead take your evangelical anti-smoking zeal somewhere else.
Like I said, if you want to complain, stick to complaining about the landlord that lied to you about it not being a non smoking house. You sound like (as another poster pointed out) the kind of person that whines about the smoke in a smoking section.

fisgon

conorhal wrote: »

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but the jist of your OP was essentially, 'I've found the perfect house, but it turns out it's full of smokers, how can I best force them out the back door?'.
.

Of course you are utterly wrong. The initial house had one smoker in it, and one non smoker. It was not 'full of smokers'. I have no idea what the attitude of the non smoker was. And of course I never mentioned forcing anyone out, if you read my post I actually questioned whether the guy could be persuaded to compromise. It's a sign of the utter weakness of your argument that you have to completely distort the situation and simply invent things that I didn't say, to try and make your point. It's called setting up a strawman. You're criticising me for something I never suggested.

And also, of course your story about the guy making a comment to you smoking outside was totally irrelevant, and shows how much you are missing the point. I'm talking about smoking inside, where those around the smoker are effected by passive smoke, and so should at least have a right to have an opinion on what they are being subjected to. The guy on the mountain was outside, and so not effected by your smoke. The two situations are fundamentally different.

And this is where smokers miss the point. They can't face the fundamental fact that smoking is not a habit like chewing gum or biting your nails, it actually effects people around you and more than that, puts toxins into the air that everyone around, if indoors, are forced to inhale. The attitude you display in your post is simply 'tough sh1t', an attitude typical among many smokers. Because the alterantive would be to face up to the harm that passive smoke does to non smokers, and also the harm you are doing to yourself. And that makes the denial that is so vital to smoking difficult.

The fact is that smokers are addicts. This is why they get so defensive about their addiction, and why they are so inconsiderate to non smokers - as displayed in many posts here - unless they are told by the law, or by landlords, that their addiction is not tolerated. Most smokers can't face up to this fact, and are incapable of admitting the damage that it does, because then they would have to face the addiction. Much easier to call people 'whining' and indulge in your persection complex, as if smokers are the ones being put upon and victimised.