Smoking Housemate - Need Advice

whiteandlight

fisgon wrote: »

conorhal wrote: »

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but the jist of your OP was essentially, 'I've found the perfect house, but it turns out it's full of smokers, how can I best force them out the back door?'.
.

Of course you are utterly wrong. The initial house had one smoker in it, and one non smoker. It was not 'full of smokers'. I have no idea what the attitude of the non smoker was. And of course I never mentioned forcing anyone out, if you read my post I actually questioned whether the guy could be persuaded to compromise. It's a sign of the utter weakness of your argument that you have to completely distort the situation and simply invent things that I didn't say, to try and make your point. It's called setting up a strawman. You're criticising me for something I never suggested.

And also, of course your story about the guy making a comment to you smoking outside was totally irrelevant, and shows how much you are missing the point. I'm talking about smoking inside, where those around the smoker are effected by passive smoke, and so should at least have a right to have an opinion on what they are being subjected to. The guy on the mountain was outside, and so not effected by your smoke. The two situations are fundamentally different.

And this is where smokers miss the point. They can't face the fundamental fact that smoking is not a habit like chewing gum or biting your nails, it actually effects people around you and more than that, puts toxins into the air that everyone around, if indoors, are forced to inhale. The attitude you display in your post is simply 'tough sh1t', an attitude typical among many smokers. Because the alterantive would be to face up to the harm that passive smoke does to non smokers, and also the harm you are doing to yourself. And that makes the denial that is so vital to smoking difficult.

The fact is that smokers are addicts. This is why they get so defensive about their addiction, and why they are so inconsiderate to non smokers - as displayed in many posts here - unless they are told by the law, or by landlords, that their addiction is not tolerated. Most smokers can't face up to this fact, and are incapable of admitting the damage that it does, because then they would have to face the addiction. Much easier to call people 'whining' and indulge in your persection complex, as if smokers are the ones being put upon and victimised.

I don't know who your friends/acquaintances are but I'm a non smoker with plenty of close friends who smoke and none of them have the attitude to smoking that you describe above. In fact many of them won't smoke inside at all, even in houses/places that permit it, because they find it uncomfortable. The vast majority of smokers that I know go out of their way to ensure that non smokers are not affected and even when outside will make an effort to blow smoke the opposite way, sit with the wind blowing the smoke away from any non smokers etc.

dominiquecruz

fisgon wrote: »

And this is where smokers miss the point. They can't face the fundamental fact that smoking is not a habit like chewing gum or biting your nails, it actually effects people around you and more than that, puts toxins into the air that everyone around, if indoors, are forced to inhale. The attitude you display in your post is simply 'tough sh1t', an attitude typical among many smokers. Because the alterantive would be to face up to the harm that passive smoke does to non smokers, and also the harm you are doing to yourself. And that makes the denial that is so vital to smoking difficult.

The fact is that smokers are addicts. This is why they get so defensive about their addiction, and why they are so inconsiderate to non smokers - as displayed in many posts here - unless they are told by the law, or by landlords, that their addiction is not tolerated. Most smokers can't face up to this fact, and are incapable of admitting the damage that it does, because then they would have to face the addiction. Much easier to call people 'whining' and indulge in your persection complex, as if smokers are the ones being put upon and victimised.

Wow. Those guys got a lucky break. I'd rather be homeless than live with that kind of patronising drivel.

brownacid

I read this entire thread and am now dying for a smoke, thanks a lot OP, your mention of a cigarette has now forced me to smoke, you're no better than the tobacco companies...

I jest

Anyway as a smoker who moved in to a house full of non-smokers at teh same time Iwas asked to refrain from smoking indoors, I agreed as I dont like to smoke inside and its not fair on everyone else in house if I just sat around teh sitting room smoking. I do however have a smoke out my bedroom window at night when I'm not arsed putting clothes on to go outside.

Anyway I doubt had you confronted the housemate it would have ended well, non smokers have forced out into the cold in public spaces and while I don't mind it some people get uppity if you try to stop them from smoking in their own home which is fair enough.

If a muslim was to move into a house do you think it would be fair of them to force everyone in the house who was their before them not to eat pork or drink alcohol in the house?

Esoteric_

I'm a smoker, and frankly I cannot believe the OP's condescending attitude!

I never smoke indoors. I smoke outside by choice, because my sister has asthma and I'm not going to smoke around her. I will not smoke in a friend's house either, I always go outside, even if I'm told it's ok to smoke inside.

I am not in denial about my addiction, like you seem to think ever smoker is. I know I'm addicted. Doesn't make me inconsiderate at all.

Tell me this - if I had a nut allergy, would I be justified and demanding that anything possibly containing nuts, such as chocolate, be kept out of the communal fridge, simply because it may harm me through possibly cross contamination? The risk is very small, but it's still there. Just as the risk of becoming ill from a small amount of second hand smoke is also very small. I certainly don't think it'd be reasonable to ask people to keep their food away from mine just in case they made me sick.

I think the OP is either one of those martyr ex-smokers, or just likes behaving like a complete control freak.

Victor

Can we stick to the topic of smoking / not-smoking in shared accommodation?

the_syco

fisgon wrote: »

they have the right to smoke where

They're paying rent there, and he landlord says it's okay for them to smoke there, so in essence, it is...

fisgon wrote: »

Just interested what people think, hypothetically.

If you don't smoke, moving into a house where you people smoke is like a Jehovah Witness sharing a house with Devil worshippers with the purpose to convert them.

=-=

I have lived in a house where you could smoke inside: never again. The stale smell of smoke goes everywhere. Personally, I prefer a house where I have to smoke outside.

Victor wrote: »

Can we stick to the topic of smoking / not-smoking in shared accommodation?

Post edited a bit.

silja

I think if a non-smoker was thinking of moving into a house with smokers, it is reasonable to ask for some limits, such as only smoking in one room, or not near those eating. However, the smokers have a right to refuse, especially if they were in the house first.

Elle Collins

conorhal wrote: »

..your evangelical anti-smoking zeal somewhere else

LOL to the above - the most apt words in this whole sorry thread.

OP, the point you are choosing to consistently ignore is this: Had you moved into that house YOU would have been subjecting YOURSELF to second hand smoke.

_Kaiser_

OK I've read this whole thread and i'm lost for words (and I'm a non-smoker and all *ba-dum-tush!*)

Anyway, OP from what you've said you looked a house which suited you perfectly save for the fact that one of the occupants smokes, right? Your question then was/is - could you "persuade"/force this person to give up smoking to suit your own requirements.

Short answer: No

Longer answer: If you were prepared to move into a house, fully aware that one of the existing occupants smokes, then you are - by the fact that you're moving in - accepting that arrangement.

You don't get any more of a say or rights in the manner because smoking offends you personally. That's not to say that you're not right insofar as that it IS a dangerous ultimately (potentially) fatal habit - BUT you don't get to decide how other grown adults live their lives (thankfully, although we're fast getting there, we're not YET at that level of nanny-state-ism)

The only thing you get to decide in this case is whether you are prepared to accept it and thankfully (for all concerned I think), you've decided to look elsewhere

djimi

fisgon wrote: »

Secondly, my position is that smoking is not just a 'habit', like humming, or leaving your dirty dishes in the sink. It's much more than that. Smoking causes actual physical harm to those who have to inhale second hand smoke. That's why I say that it's a privilege, not a right.

A non-smoker has no choice if in a room with a smoker about whether he wants to have tobacco smoke inflicted on him, and so risks actual physical discomfort or harm from this other person's 'habit'. You can't say that about someone leaving their dirty cereal bowls around.

You do however have a choice whether or not to be in that room. As a non-smoker I lived with smokers once, and there is no way on earth I will ever do it again. You can moan about rights all you want, but the bottom line is if you dont want to have second hand smoke inflicted on you then dont put yourself in a situation where you will be around smokers. I dont go into smoking areas in pubs, at times I avoid house parties if I dont feel like spending my evening in a gas chamber that will inevitably make my feel ill, and I certainly wouldnt consider moving into a house that was currently occupied by smokers. Its a poxy position to have to take, but smokers rarely ever have much consideration for non-smokers, so just work around it.

Stavro Mueller

I really dislike smoking and something like that would certainly be a deal breaker. Having said that, this man wasn't actually doing anything wrong. He was just having a smoke in the privacy of his home, quite possibly with the consent of everyone in there. In my experience, most smokers don't just light up and puff away. They'll normally ask or step outside for the smoke.

Obviously in that particular house, nobody objects to him smoking indoors. Speaking hypothetically, you could even have had a scenario where this guy was nipping out for his cigarette and was told not to be going out into the freezing cold. That it'd be OK for him to smoke in the house.

As I said, I have no love for smoking but I am also long enough on this earth to know when to pick my battles. I'm delighted that people can't smoke in public places but it's a bit much to persecute smokers in their own homes. I've never house shared with a smoker but did share with someone who had some friends who smoked like chimneys. I once left a clothes horse of clothes overnight in the sitting room to dry/air by the fire and these friends came over after the pub. My clothes didn't smell too nice but what can you do only shrug your shoulders and move on. There are times when house sharing is about compromise.

fisgon

Thanks to all who took the time to answer in a considered and balanced way to the question, as opposed to those few who decided to forgo actually addressing the points I made and resort to insult and hyperbole.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Your question then was/is - could you "persuade"/force this person to give up smoking to suit your own requirements.

I think that it's important to actually read someone's posts if you're going to reply to them. Where exactly did I say that I wanted the guy to 'give up smoking'? Really? I quote from my original post
" We may be able to reach some kind of compromise".
How exactly is that an attempt to force someone to give up smoking. If you're going to answer the question I posed, do not simply make up things that I didn't say.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

You don't get any more of a say or rights in the manner because smoking offends you personally. That's not to say that you're not right insofar as that it IS a dangerous ultimately (potentially) fatal habit - BUT you don't get to decide how other grown adults live their lives (thankfully, although we're fast getting there, we're not YET at that level of nanny-state-ism)

My second question was a hypothetical one.
"is reasonable to ask that the smoker not smoke in the kitchen? Or ask for some sort of compromise? That the smoker doesn't smoke while the non-smoker is eating, for example?"

I couldn't care less what smokers do. If they want to smoke, it's their business. But, because of the nature of smoking, if a smoker smokes in a room with a non-smoker, then the non-smoker is smoking too. The non smoker has no choice in the matter. The smoker is imposing cigarette smoke on his housemate, and in essence dictating, in one way, how they live their lives. If a non smoker asks the smoker to, for example, not smoke while the non smoker is eating, the smoker can still smoke, their lives are not changed in any meaningful way, it's not stopping him actually smoking, they just have to modify their behaviour slightly, wait ten minutes, or go into the living room.

Somehow this has been interpreted as some kind of fascist anti-smoking suggestion by some people. To me what some people are saying is that smoking always trumps non smoking, if the smoker is there first. I want to repeat that this is a hypothetical situation. But to me it is surprising that some people are suggesting that a smoker is right to insist on smoking wherever, and whenever he/she chooses, if - and remember we're talking about paying tenants in a house share, both smoker and non smoker - they are there first.

Stavro Mueller

It really does depend on the people involved. It's like comparing apples and oranges really. There are no hard and fast rules. I reckon in most cases, some sort of dialogue would have taken place the first time a smoker wanted to smoke. As I said before, most smokers don't just pull the packet of fags out of their pocket, light up and puff away.

In the case you outlined, the established norm in the house was for this guy to smoke in the kitchen. Because you were to move in after this had happened, chances are you would've been the one who went to this guy and asked him not to smoke in the house/at mealtimes/when you're in the kitchen. Regardless of what you think of smoking, is it really all that different to someone telling you that they don't want you moving around in your room after 11.00 at night or having your clock radio turned on too loudly in the morning? It's pulling someone up on their behaviour and asking them to change it.

conorhal

fisgon wrote: »

Of course you are utterly wrong. The initial house had one smoker in it, and one non smoker. It was not 'full of smokers'. I have no idea what the attitude of the non smoker was. And of course I never mentioned forcing anyone out, if you read my post I actually questioned whether the guy could be persuaded to compromise. It's a sign of the utter weakness of your argument that you have to completely distort the situation and simply invent things that I didn't say, to try and make your point. It's called setting up a strawman. You're criticising me for something I never suggested.

Actually, I was facetiously mocking your petulant tone, rather then distorting your point, I think I captured the 'essence' of your argument prety well from your tone, but if you want to be pedantic about it.....

fisgon wrote: »

And also, of course your story about the guy making a comment to you smoking outside was totally irrelevant, and shows how much you are missing the point. I'm talking about smoking inside, where those around the smoker are effected by passive smoke, and so should at least have a right to have an opinion on what they are being subjected to. The guy on the mountain was outside, and so not effected by your smoke. The two situations are fundamentally different..

You're the one missing the point. I wasn't (as I've already stated) comparing the situation, I was comparing your attitude. You OP reeks of the same self righteous indignation.
You should at the time, in the kitchen, have simply said to the guy, ‘hi, I’m thinking of renting a room here but I’m a non smoker so I’m wondering, if I did move in, would you be open to some compromise about smoking indoors?’ Instead you just decided to seethe and then come here for a rant about smokers, which is kind of immature and petulant.

fisgon wrote: »

And this is where smokers miss the point. They can't face the fundamental fact that smoking is not a habit like chewing gum or biting your nails, it actually effects people around you and more than that, puts toxins into the air that everyone around, if indoors, are forced to inhale. The attitude you display in your post is simply 'tough sh1t', an attitude typical among many smokers. Because the alterantive would be to face up to the harm that passive smoke does to non smokers, and also the harm you are doing to yourself. And that makes the denial that is so vital to smoking difficult.
The fact is that smokers are addicts. This is why they get so defensive about their addiction, and why they are so inconsiderate to non smokers - as displayed in many posts here - unless they are told by the law, or by landlords, that their addiction is not tolerated. Most smokers can't face up to this fact, and are incapable of admitting the damage that it does, because then they would have to face the addiction. Much easier to call people 'whining' and indulge in your persection complex, as if smokers are the ones being put upon and victimised.

If I wanted a lecture I'd go on an Alan Carr course so you can jump off your soapbox, if you don't want to live with smokers, don't. It's that simple.
Your whining about 'victimization' borders on neurotic and if I'm defensive it's against your attitude, not the facts (of which I'm fully aware). Perhaps the reason you have such a fractious relationship with smokers is down to the manner in which you debate the subject, most people are open to a reasonable debate but your approach to it is bound to raise people hackles. If you walk into a situation and start lecturing, hectoring and chiding people it's no wonder that they're soon blowing smoke in your face.
I thinks it's pretty plain to see, reading back over this thread, that most people think your attitude actually stinks worse then cigarette smoke, so perhaps you can work on that 'bad habit' yourself if you're considering sharing a house with other people, as I think you'll find that living with strangers requires many compromises if you are all to get on.
Perhaps you should put an ad up in the house share section on daft for people looking for housmates and make it clear that you are looking to live with like-minded people and non smokers, I'm sure that there are no shortage of people looking for non smoking flatmates also.

bladebrew

why the hell would the landlady say it was non smoking when it clearly isnt, it wouldnt have taken long for the op to realise people were smoking inside and i assume move out immediatly causing more hassle for the landlady,

i lived in a house before, the original guy said he had been there 3 years it was actually 9 months, and said it was non smoking, turns out the landlord didnt mind if we (me and the other housemate) smoked in our bedrooms, so we did, he (original guy) suggested we sellotape up the vents above the bedroom doors:)
the reason i spent so much time in my room is because his girlfriend who would be there "2-3" nights per week was there 7 nights per week,

the landlady seems to have caused all the trouble here, but dont move into a house with smokers and try and change it, it will not work!

ShaShaBear

I think it's hilarious when people like you get into an argument with written/typed words - I can almost see you sitting at your PC, diligently working over a Thesaurus, trying to find big and convincing words that your opponent may have overlooked

Everyone in my family smokes. My boyfriend is one of these trendy "social smokers" (he thinks fags look dead cool when he's half cut :P). My mother will always ask where and if she can smoke before she lights up, and my dad didn't give a flying fiddler's elbow where he was or who he was with, he'd light up anyway. My nan would be the same (although she's in a wheelchair that she can't really move herself anymore with arthritis in her hands, so it's a tad unreasonable to expect her to move anywhere). My best mate is a chain smoker and, when I first got this flat, she insisted on smoking at the front door. I promptly purchased an ashtray, and she smokes inside now.

So, like with all bad habits, there are people that will listen, and people that won't. And on a side note, in my last house I suffered really bad chest infections because my housemate refused to wash his dishes and the house was swarming with spores from the mould that formed on the rotten food (I have a low immune system, so this was pretty bloody dangerous) :rolleyes:

You can, of course, ask any other housemate to confine their bad habits to a certain time/place, you could even ask them to give them up entirely. But the major issue here is that if the landlord/lady gave them full clearance, then you really do not have a leg to stand on. And there lies the big problem with your original post. The landlady lied simply to try and get you to move in. After a few weeks of being driven insane by second-hand smoke, you would have insisted on leaving, and I bet you would have lost a substantial amount of your deposit to cover the financial stress you'd be putting her under. All in all, a bad apple to deal with when renting.

And I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinions of smoking, but considering the amount of pollutants in the atmosphere that have been proven to damage health and the environment, I don't believe it's entirely fair to consider smoking a privilege. Car exhaust fumes are pretty nasty, and I wouldn't demand that someone not start their car close to my open window :P

djimi

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Car exhaust fumes are pretty nasty, and I wouldn't demand that someone not start their car close to my open window :P

You would if it was filling your room full of exhaust fumes...

fisgon

Coincidentally, I was talking to a girl I know over the weekend in a situation relevant to this. She is living in a house with three guys, two smokers and one non. She is a non smoker, though smoking doesn't really bother her and it is not normally an issue.

It does bother her, though, when people smoke when she is eating. She finds it off putting and stops her tasting her food. She was the last one in the house, and is the only girl, and so is a little wary of saying anything, doesn't know how to bring it up, and doesn't know if she is in a position to ask that they don't smoke while she is eating.

Obvioulsy, to me she is perfectly reasonable in asking this. And if the guys refused what is, to me, a very mild request, they would be unreasonable and inconsiderate. She is thinking of broaching the subject this week.

djimi

fisgon wrote: »

Coincidentally, I was talking to a girl I know over the weekend in a situation relevant to this. She is living in a house with three guys, two smokers and one non. She is a non smoker, though smoking doesn't really bother her and it is not normally an issue.

It does bother her, though, when people smoke when she is eating. She finds it off putting and stops her tasting her food. She was the last one in the house, and is the only girl, and so is a little wary of saying anything, doesn't know how to bring it up, and doesn't know if she is in a position to ask that they don't smoke while she is eating.

Obvioulsy, to me she is perfectly reasonable in asking this. And if the guys refused what is, to me, a very mild request, they would be unreasonable and inconsiderate. She is thinking of broaching the subject this week.

She is well within her rights to ask them to move to another room to smoke while she is eating, especially if she is eating in the kitchen. If she is fond of having dinner in front of the TV in the living room in the evenings then she may have to adjust her eating habits and start dining in the kitchen instead; not really as fair to ask her housemates to not smoke in the living room.

Stavro Mueller

Your friend's issue is a different one to yours in my book. It's not unreasonable for your friend to ask them not to smoke when she's having her meal. It's not as if she's asking them to not smoke in the rest of the house. Just when she's having her meal. If these smokers are any way decent at all and she asks them politely, there shouldn't be a problem. If they're rude about it, she should pack her bags and move. There are so many places for rent nowadays that nobody should be forced to live somewhere they're unhappy in.

ShaShaBear

djimi wrote: »

You would if it was filling your room full of exhaust fumes...

Well, no, I wouldn't. I would simply close my window and let the person who pays for the right to drive work away at whatever. However, sitting beside an open window and inhaling the fumes and then complaining about how poisonous they are... that's me digging my own hole without wood for a ladder :rolleyes:

djimi

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Well, no, I wouldn't. I would simply close my window and let the person who pays for the right to drive work away at whatever. However, sitting beside an open window and inhaling the fumes and then complaining about how poisonous they are... that's me digging my own hole without wood for a ladder :rolleyes:

If you say so. You might feel differently at 6am on a hot summers morning when you cant have your window open because of the fumes/smell that creeps in from your neighbours car outside...!

fisgon

cymbaline wrote: »

Your friend's issue is a different one to yours in my book..

It's not, actually. In my original post - which has been resolved, BTW, as I didn't take the room in the house - I talked about maybe asking the smoker in the house to compromise. Not smoking while a non-smoker is eating is one of these compromises.

In the hypothetical situation I proposed, this is exactly one of the situations I asked about. -
"reasonable to... ask for some sort of compromise? That the smoker doesn't smoke while they are eating, for example?"

Stavro Mueller

I disagree. Your friend has no issue with these people smoking in the house. Only when she's eating. I assume it that she's happy to be in the sitting room when they're smoking etc.

I took from your saying that you wanted a no smoking house that you'd not want them smoking anywhere in the house. Your issue was that your landlady lied and told you that the occupants were non smokers. You found out in time. Bullet dodged. End of matter.

nowyouresix

Find a different place to live. The other guy was there first. Tough.