Mourinho vs Real Madrid

dor83

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

And here's a wild card choice....what about a return to Inter?

He said last year that he will go back to Inter at some stage.

ironbluedun

what are the chances of him taking over after capello makes his exit in July?

Kirby

He's too big at the moment for a national side. I don't think his ego could take being ignored for 85% of the year anyway.

Warper

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I think Capello walked from Madrid the first time.

Didn't get sacked because they played very good football under him with an attacking trident of Raul, Suker and Mijatovic.

And here's a wild card choice....what about a return to Inter?

Capello got forced out due to his style of play. So what if they won the League, their method of playing was not suitable to the Madrid faithful as they were too defensive under Capello. He is a very conservative manager.

Warper

everdead.ie wrote: »

How much has mourinhio spent ar Real? I was under the impression that he's only added a few players ozil,carvalio and another couple. But he hasn't paid big money for anyone he has a good team there already.

I wonder actually have Barca spent more then real since he came? Because they tend to bring so many through the ranks they buy big like Ibrahimovic, villa and Fabergas

In fairness when you take over a team that has spent a few hundred millions the previous season you dont need to add to a squad like Real Madrid's. Their squad is the deepest in the World and is a great place for a club to pick up a bargain if you can afford the wages. Their squad is ridiculous and their B team would nearly win any league in Europe bar Spain.

Btw Del Bosque got the bullet after winning the CL. Top manager and he took it so gracefully even thanking the club for giving him the chance to manage them.

Pro. F

Warper wrote: »

Btw Del Bosque got the bullet after winning the CL. Top manager and he took it so gracefully even thanking the club for giving him the chance to manage them.

That's not graceful, that's servile! Jebus, it would make your stomach turn how much fawning there is for the Dictator's team in parts of Spanish society.

Auvers

Warper wrote: »

Capello got forced out due to his style of play. So what if they won the League, their method of playing was not suitable to the Madrid faithful as they were too defensive under Capello. He is a very conservative manager.

QFT

my wife is from Madrid and I am going there for 17 years, her whole family are Real fans, her brother and father are season ticket holders

I will never forget the amount of slagging Capello got for his conservative play in his first season

I also couldn't believe the level of animosity towards him even when they won the league and was very surprised he got another season

Pro. F wrote: »

for the Dictator's team.

love to hear you to say that in front of the Madrid fans I know

kryogen

Del Bosque is one of the best managers in the game and Madrid made a terrible decision when sacking him.

Pro. F

Auvers wrote: »

love to hear you to say that in front of the Madrid fans I know

Sure send me a PM and we can organise it.

CongoPowers

Nothing to do with Real Madrid, just Mourinho.

Apparently the European Gay and Lesbian Sports Federation have asked UEFA to take action against José for referring to some match officials as 'maricones' which is similar to f**gots in English. This is based on some TV footage apparently.

Will have to hear Mourinho's side to this story first obv.

I'd still be surprised if this true because like, wtf? :pac:

here's the video anyway. he says it in passing tbf, not in a malicious way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxVQkMYWoGY

pickarooney

Oh Jesus, not another 100 pages on how best to interpret a piece of Spanish slang.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB-Ct8J0LT0

CongoPowers

hahahaha he meant it in an endearing way

Nah, to be honest, it was just a horrible choice of words in front of a camera. He could have said loads of other words meaning the same thing to him. I wonder what UEFA's reply to this lesbian and gay organisation is though.

Iang87

Just wanna have this right........

If I call a gay person a faggót i'm a homophobe and gay and lesbian groups will bitch and moan about it.

If I call someone who isnt gay a faggót i'm a ????????? and gay and lesbian groups will bitch and moan about it.

CSF

Iang87 wrote: »

Just wanna have this right........

If I call a gay person a faggót i'm a homophobe and gay and lesbian groups will bitch and moan about it.

If I call someone who isnt gay a faggót i'm a ????????? and gay and lesbian groups will bitch and moan about it.

Yeah, not that confusing.

Iang87

fairly confusing. See I thought I could use the word ****** but apparently not at all.

CSF

Iang87 wrote: »

fairly confusing. See I thought I could use the word ****** but apparently not at all.

No. The use of derogatory terms for homosexuals as a term to indicate something bad, is fairly inappropriate.

That isn't to say everyone who does it is a blatant homophobe (it has developed into a nasty common social habit that people just see as normal) but still.

Iang87

I say it a lot without even thinking, even to one of my friends who is gay. He doesn't take offence.

Well thats another one off my words I was once allowed say list

CongoPowers

to be fair too, you're not saying it on tv as the manager of Real Madrid either.

this organisation has complained because Mourinho is setting a bad example basically. I'm surprised he doesn't know better than to use that word in front of a camera. Poor judgement more than anything.

CSF

Iang87 wrote: »

I say it a lot without even thinking, even to one of my friends who is gay. He doesn't take offence.

Well thats another one off my words I was once allowed say list

Your mate is hardly representative of the gay community at large to be fair.

Neil3030

The defence of "I didn't mean 'f****t' as in 'gay'" is not good enough, imo.

Even assuming the word has evolved from its original meaning, the reason people began using f****t as an insult was because the word meant gay and gay meant bad.

That mindset, i.e., gay=bad, is still very real in modern society, so even though you may not think you are being homophobic by using the word f****t, you are nonetheless contributing to a problem.

It's like when Chris Rock decided to stop doing his "Black People VS Ni***rs" piece, because it gave racists licence to use the word.

Iang87

CSF wrote: »

Your mate is hardly representative of the gay community at large to be fair.

not saying that just saying that not all gay people will take offence to a word.

Anyway no real argument to be had over it, just clearing up that the word cant be said at all in any case I find that part strange

Pro. F

Iang87 wrote: »

not saying that just saying that not all gay people will take offence to a word.

Anyway no real argument to be had over it, just clearing up that the word cant be said at all in any case I find that part strange

No, you are not just looking for clarification, you are complaining about it and implying that objections to the word are somehow unjustified.

If you genuinely only wanted clarification about it you would have just asked, but you didn't. Instead you started out with an antagonistic attitude, talking about about gay and lesbian groups ''bitching and moaning''.

If you read Neil's post you will see that it is quite simple and not strange at all.

Iang87

Pro. F wrote: »

No, you are not just looking for clarification, you are complaining about it and implying that objections to the word are somehow unjustified.

If you genuinely only wanted clarification about it you would have just asked, but you didn't. Instead you started out with an antagonistic attitude, talking about about gay and lesbian groups ''bitching and moaning''.

If you read Neil's post you will see that it is quite simple and not strange at all.

fair enough think what you like. Hopefully though all these groups will bring out a dictionary of things we can and cannot say. Really will help to clear up things.

As for Mourinho saying it, stupid saying it should have known the shítstorm someone in the public eye saying something like that would cause.

Imo its another example of political correctness gone mad in this world. But thats an opinion go on attack that

CongoPowers

Iang87 wrote: »

As for Mourinho saying it, stupid saying it should have known the shítstorm someone in the public eye saying something like that would cause.

agree.

Imo its another example of political correctness gone mad in this world. But thats an opinion go on attack that

disagree.

it's hardly mad that a gay and lesbian organisation is offended by someone as influential as Mourinho using a derogatory term for the people they support. also, even though loads of people use the word jokingly, it still is wrong. mostly because people still use it as to say gay = bad.

Anyway, José should just apologise and let this blow over. He's not a stupid guy, he should know how to deal with this.

Pro. F

Iang87 wrote: »

fair enough think what you like. Hopefully though all these groups will bring out a dictionary of things we can and cannot say. Really will help to clear up things.

All which groups? All the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender advocacy groups or all the advocacy groups for people who are different to you?

You don't need a special dictionary to know that a word like ''******'' is offensive. Try referring to any standard dictionary and you will see that society is clear on the issue. It is not complicated, you are pretending it is when it is not. You should ask yourself why you are doing that.

Iang87 wrote: »

Imo its another example of political correctness gone mad in this world. But thats an opinion go on attack that

People being offended by the use of a word specifically intended as an insult for gays is not political correctness gone mad.

Morzadec

Without getting into another Spanish language debate, for me 'maricon' is probably not as offensive as 'faggót' in English.

Maricon is probably more like queer/gay/bender/poofter. Faggót is probably a more hateful and homophobic word imo..

Not that it makes what Mourinho allegedly said defendable, but it's not quite as vicious as if he had said 'faggót' in English I think...

(Note: similar to the Suarez debate, you'll notice that 'faggót' gets blocked out on boards, while queer, bender etc.. are allowed, so that would show that it is a far worse term. The term Mourinho allegedly used is not as strong from my nderstanding of the word.

Fight_Night

This is stupid. Maricon does not equal '******' and the Spanish language is very very different to English in terms of swearing. Maricon is a fairly casual word, certainly wouldn't have the baggage that ****** would have in English.

But alas people will look for a reason to be outraged.

plasmaguy

Well, I think Rafa Benitez has made it his life's ambition to coach Real.

And he has the European Pedigree, so he might be the favourite to take over if Mourinho leaves.

Still think Mourhino is a better manager and Real would be mad to sack him if it came to that.

Iang87

Pro. F wrote: »

All which groups? All the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender advocacy groups or all the advocacy groups for people who are different to you?

You don't need a special dictionary to know that a word like ''******'' is offensive. Try referring to any standard dictionary and you will see that society is clear on the issue. It is not complicated, you are pretending it is when it is not. You should ask yourself why you are doing that.



People being offended by the use of a word specifically intended as an insult for gays is not political correctness gone mad.

My point about groups isnt for groups different to me but it seems there is always a group saying something is offensive. Be it gay and lesbian groups, traveller groups or race groups. I'm fully aware that theres no need to be making reference to any of these things when talking but 99% of people do.

The word faggót is offensive i'm not disputing that but its made even worse by people mounting a high horse anytime something is said. If I called a white guy a nígger I'd be laughed at so if I call a straight lad a ****** shouldn't the same principle apply but it doesn't. I mean historically they're both offensive words used to put people down of a certain race or way of life.

Anyway its pointless arguing about this cos we disagree strongly and we'll go in circles.

As for Mourinho will there be a punishment I doubt it he may get a poxy little fine but fining someone a few grand who makes millions is also pointless

CSF

Iang87 wrote: »

My point about groups isnt for groups different to me but it seems there is always a group saying something is offensive. Be it gay and lesbian groups, traveller groups or race groups. I'm fully aware that theres no need to be making reference to any of these things when talking but 99% of people do.

The word faggót is offensive i'm not disputing that but its made even worse by people mounting a high horse anytime something is said. If I called a white guy a nígger I'd be laughed at so if I call a straight lad a ****** shouldn't the same principle apply but it doesn't. I mean historically they're both offensive words used to put people down of a certain race or way of life.

Anyway its pointless arguing about this cos we disagree strongly and we'll go in circles.

As for Mourinho will there be a punishment I doubt it he may get a poxy little fine but fining someone a few grand who makes millions is also pointless

Apples and oranges. You cannot insinuate that a white man is black, realistically. You can however insinuate that a straight man is gay, and mock him as such, which is how the term is used most frequently, when men are deemed to have portrayed feminine tendencies.

adox

It's fairly straight forward to be honest. Derogatory language about a persons race, colour, creed, sexual orientation etc is not acceptable in today's society. It's hardly left wing liberal political correctness. It's just common sense.

Pro. F

Iang87 wrote: »

My point about groups isnt for groups different to me but it seems there is always a group saying something is offensive. Be it gay and lesbian groups, traveller groups or race groups. I'm fully aware that theres no need to be making reference to any of these things when talking but 99% of people do.

So it is LGBT, traveller and race advocacy groups you have a problem with now. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am going to guess that none of those groups represent you.

Making reference to things is not the same as making derogatory reference and I would highly doubt that 99% of people use offensive language for these groups. And whatever percentage of people do use the offensive language, the fact that they do doesn't make it right, obviously.

Iang87 wrote: »

The word faggót is offensive i'm not disputing that but its made even worse by people mounting a high horse anytime something is said.

First of all, there is no high horse here. What there is is a request for people like you to cop the fùck on to yourself and stop being homophobic. Stop using homophobic language and stop implying that being gay is a bad thing. When you use homosexuality as an insult then that is what you are doing. It's simple. There is also a bit of pointing out the duplicity of your argument - saying that you are only looking for clarity when that is clearly not the case.

Second of all, you are using some absolutely bullshìt reasoning here. People giving out when homophobic language is used does not make the problem of homophobic language and attitudes worse. Just think about how stupid that idea is for a second. It's the same bullshìt that racists use to say that the problem is only caused by those pesky minority races when they stand up against racism.

Iang87 wrote: »

If I called a white guy a nígger I'd be laughed at so if I call a straight lad a ****** shouldn't the same principle apply but it doesn't. I mean historically they're both offensive words used to put people down of a certain race or way of life.

Maybe in your group of friends using the word n***** is acceptable, but thankfully most of society would have a problem with it these days.

Fight_Night wrote: »

This is stupid. Maricon does not equal '******' and the Spanish language is very very different to English in terms of swearing. Maricon is a fairly casual word, certainly wouldn't have the baggage that ****** would have in English.

But alas people will look for a reason to be outraged.

F***** is definitely the closest translation for maricon. It is the most long established and universal term of insult for gays. Check f***** in any Spanish/English dictionary and they will all translate it as maricon, whereas other similar words will often have additional or different translations.

Either way, it is just splitting hairs. Using homophobic insults is unacceptable no matter what they are.
And the fact that swearing is far more casual in Spanish, which it is, doesn't make homophobic language and attitudes okay.

People who have a problem with homophobia aren't looking for reasons to be outraged. What is actually happening is you are looking for reasons to dismiss legitimate criticisms of homophobia.

Morzadec

Pro. F wrote: »

F***** is definitely the closest translation for maricon. It is the most long established and universal term of insult for gays. Check f***** in any Spanish/English dictionary and they will all translate it as maricon, whereas other similar words will often have additional or different translations.

Either way, it is just splitting hairs. Using homophobic insults is unacceptable no matter what they are.
And the fact that swearing is far more casual in Spanish, which it is, doesn't make homophobic language and attitudes okay.

People who have a problem with homophobia aren't looking for reasons to be outraged. What is actually happening is you are looking for reasons to dismiss legitimate criticisms of homophobia.

Do you really think so? I have no reason to defend Mourinho, I hate the guy, but my understanding of maricon is that it is far less than fággot. As another poster says, it doesn't carry the same baggage.

It's much more like poofter/pansy imo, and it's a really commonly used term.

I agree with your general sentiment that words like this need to be stamped out of general usage, but the fact is that many people grow up with this in their lexicon and use it hardly without thinking. It's very hard to change learned speech patterns...

I've eliminated the word fággot from my vocabulary to describe a person I don't like because it is a very offensive term, although I admit that I still sometimes describe a situation that's a pain in the ass as 'gay'. I'm in no way homophobic, but I've grown up learning and using this term in this way...

It's an interesting topic anyway and very similar to the Suarez case in some ways where naturally used language can cause offence to minority groups

Morzadec

Here's a forum discussion on word reference actually...

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=906187

Thought this was a very good response:

'I suppose it all depends on the context. Both terms are derogatory especially if the intention of the speaker is such. How much harm is intended is something not easy to quantify, even to qualify'

Ultimately it's difficult to gauge the intentions of the speaker, and also people will take it differently. I'm sure many gay people would not be incredibly offended by the term, whereas others would.

I certainly don't believe Mourinho intended to offend the gay community with what he said, although he should apologise if offence was caused.

Pro. F

Well maricon is the most widely known and established abusive term for gays and that would make it the default translation for f***** imo. The dictionaries generally all translate f***** as maricon with no qualifications whereas other English and Spanish homophobic words often have other uses and inferences attached or are not even translated at all. All the other abusive homophobic terms in English and Spanish come in and out of use and meaning whereas maricon and f***** are the two that have remained constant as far as I can see.

But really this is not important. Homophobic language is homophobic language.

markesmith

Nuts that we're discussing such a trivial matter. Is one not allowed to say such a thing under their breath now, unaware that a camera is pointing at them?

What next? Lifetime bans for posters in AH who claim to have 'caught the gheyness'?

Pro. F

markesmith wrote: »

Nuts that we're discussing such a trivial matter. Is one not allowed to say such a thing under their breath now, unaware that a camera is pointing at them?

What does it matter if he said it under his breath or was unaware that the camera was pointing at him? The intention was clear. Would it be okay if he used ''n*****'' to insult the officials as long as he said it under his breath or didn't know he was on camera?

Fight_Night

Pro. F wrote: »

Well maricon is the most widely known and established abusive term for gays and that would make it the default translation for f***** imo. The dictionaries generally all translate f***** as maricon with no qualifications whereas other English and Spanish homophobic words often have other uses and inferences attached or are not even translated at all. All the other abusive homophobic terms in English and Spanish come in and out of use and meaning whereas maricon and f***** are the two that have remained constant as far as I can see.

But really this is not important. Homophobic language is homophobic language.

Have you ever called someone a cúnt? I certainly have called many people it in my day and I'd suspect that most of us have. If he called him them cúnts would there be as much outrage? Considering the meaning of the word I don't see much difference between calling someone a fággot or a cúnt. I'm all for LGBT equality but complaining about this is doing them no good, just going to piss off people. We all use this kind of language every day.

CSF

Fight_Night wrote: »

Pro. F wrote: »

Well maricon is the most widely known and established abusive term for gays and that would make it the default translation for f***** imo. The dictionaries generally all translate f***** as maricon with no qualifications whereas other English and Spanish homophobic words often have other uses and inferences attached or are not even translated at all. All the other abusive homophobic terms in English and Spanish come in and out of use and meaning whereas maricon and f***** are the two that have remained constant as far as I can see.

But really this is not important. Homophobic language is homophobic language.

Have you ever called someone a cúnt? I certainly have called many people it in my day and I'd suspect that most of us have. If he called him them cúnts would there be as much outrage? Considering the meaning of the word I don't see much difference between calling someone a fággot or a cúnt. I'm all for LGBT equality but complaining about this is doing them no good, just going to piss off people. We all use this kind of language every day.

Are you for real? How can you try couple calling someone a derogatory term for a sexual organ, and calling someone a derogatory term for a human being? Ridiculous

I'm sure the LGBT equality campaigners are going to be really worried about pissing off people who think its ok to casually use terms regardless of the outright nastyness of the origins.

Yeah the LGBT campaigners should tiptoe around these people or else they may lose their support for the movement. Get a grip.

And we don't all use this language every day. Maybe you and your friends do, but most rational people know better.

Fight_Night

CSF wrote: »

Are you for real? How can you try couple calling someone a derogatory term for a sexual organ, and calling someone a derogatory term for a human being? Ridiculous

I'm sure the LGBT equality campaigners are going to be really worried about pissing off people who think its ok to casually use terms regardless of the outright nastyness of the origins.

Yeah the LGBT campaigners should tiptoe around these people or else they may lose their support for the movement. Get a grip.

And we don't all use this language every day. Maybe you and your friends do, but most rational people know better.

Obviously didn't understand what I was saying, cheers for the thinly veiled dig though :rolleyes:


And as someone who's fluent in Spanish I can tell you that maricon does not have the same connotations as ******. Don't care what your online dictionary says it just blatantly doesn't have the same baggage. It's closer to something like queer.

CSF

Fight_Night wrote: »

Obviously didn't understand what I was saying, cheers for the thinly veiled dig though :rolleyes:


And as someone who's fluent in Spanish I can tell you that maricon does not have the same connotations as ******. Don't care what your online dictionary says it just blatantly doesn't have the same baggage. It's closer to something like queer.

I never made reference to the word maricon so I don't know what you're talking about. I made reference to the word ******.

I understood exactly what you were saying, and responded as such. There was no thinly veiled dig, just a response based on how I see things.

Neil3030

Fight_Night wrote: »

Have you ever called someone a cúnt? I certainly have called many people it in my day and I'd suspect that most of us have. If he called him them cúnts would there be as much outrage? Considering the meaning of the word I don't see much difference between calling someone a fággot or a cúnt. I'm all for LGBT equality but complaining about this is doing them no good, just going to piss off people. We all use this kind of language every day.

:rolleyes:

Cop onto yourself, a lot people find the usage of that word very offensive and have every right to complain. End of story. Should this "piss people off" then it would do nothing but highlight a very worrying trend of ignorance.

markesmith

Pro. F wrote: »

What does it matter if he said it under his breath or was unaware that the camera was pointing at him? The intention was clear. Would it be okay if he used ''n*****'' to insult the officials as long as he said it under his breath or didn't know he was on camera?

I don't normally go along with the 'anti-PC-lefty' brigade, but this is getting out of hand. It's getting a bit 1984. You're almost to the point of censuring people's thoughts.

I always think that the people who complain most vociferously about these things have issues themselves with it. Much in the same way as someone who goes around calling people 'queers' all the time have an issue with their own sexuality.

Here's a guy muttering something to himself under his breath, and now we're all analysing it and criticising him? I mean, get a bit of perspective on things.

Pro. F

Fight_Night wrote: »

Have you ever called someone a cúnt? I certainly have called many people it in my day and I'd suspect that most of us have. If he called him them cúnts would there be as much outrage? Considering the meaning of the word I don't see much difference between calling someone a fággot or a cúnt.

The implications of the word cùnt are far more ambiguous than the word f*****. As CSF says, by definition it is a word
for an organ not a person. You might want to say that the use of the word cùnt as an insult implies an anti-feminine attitude, but that is far from certain.

For example, cùnt is used in an anti-feminine way as a derogatory term for women in America, but not in the rest of the English speaking world
where it is accepted, including by feminists, as a general curse word. I use the words cùnt and prick interchangeably as curses, neither of them imply that I think that being male or female is a bad thing. The use of the word f***** (or whichever homophobic insult you want to translate it to) as an insult on the other hand is completely unambiguous as it is a derogatory term for gay people in the first place.

Fight_Night wrote: »

I'm all for LGBT equality but complaining about this is doing them no good, just going to piss off people.

That is not a reason for accepting homophobic attitudes and language in society. Fail argument.

Fight_Night wrote: »

We all use this kind of language every day.

No we don't.

Fight_Night wrote: »

And as someone who's fluent in Spanish I can tell you that maricon does not have the same connotations as ******. Don't care what your online dictionary says it just blatantly doesn't have the same baggage. It's closer to something like queer.

I used to be fluent in Spanish and I still have a good grasp of the language and I disagree with you. But I'm not interested in arguing it anymore as it is irrelevant. If he had said ''queer'' it would be just as bad. ''Baggage'' doesn't come into it. There is no need to split hairs when you are talking about him using homophobic language, the implication that being gay is a bad thing is still the same.

Mr. Presentable

You know what? If it is offensive let the person to whom it is aimed be offended. The rest of you stop looking for excuses to be offended on behalf of other people.

Like this: If someone calls me a fagg*t I am not offended. Why should you be? Are you now the knight in shining armour who rides to the defence of the gays?

Pro. F

markesmith wrote: »

I don't normally go along with the 'anti-PC-lefty' brigade, but this is getting out of hand. It's getting a bit 1984. You're almost to the point of censuring people's thoughts.
...
Here's a guy muttering something to himself under his breath, and now we're all analysing it and criticising him? I mean, get a bit of perspective on things.

Don't be ridiculous. This was a very public figure in a public situation with camera crews around him who was heard saying something homophobic. That is nothing like a police state where everybody is observed and thoughts are censored.

Also, not that it's very important but, he didn't mutter it under his breath to himself. He was talking to the person beside him.

markesmith wrote: »

I always think that the people who complain most vociferously about these things have issues themselves with it. Much in the same way as someone who goes around calling people 'queers' all the time have an issue with their own sexuality.

Nice ad hominem argument there.

Pro. F

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

You know what? If it is offensive let the person to whom it is aimed be offended. The rest of you stop looking for excuses to be offended on behalf of other people.

Like this: If someone calls me a fagg*t I am not offended. Why should you be? Are you now the knight in shining armour who rides to the defence of the gays?

You have a problem with solidarity against hateful language and attitudes?

The idea that only the discriminated against should fight discrimination is idiotic. What is the justification of these demands that you make?

CSF

markesmith wrote: »

I always think that the people who complain most vociferously about these things have issues themselves with it. Much in the same way as someone who goes around calling people 'queers' all the time have an issue with their own sexuality.

Well, you're wrong.

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

You know what? If it is offensive let the person to whom it is aimed be offended. The rest of you stop looking for excuses to be offended on behalf of other people.

Like this: If someone calls me a fagg*t I am not offended. Why should you be? Are you now the knight in shining armour who rides to the defence of the gays?

Well your final question says it all about you so there isn't much need to take any heed of the rest of your post.

G.K.

I don't know why we are still having this discussion in 2012. Props to Pro. F and CSF for having the right attitude.

Mr. Presentable

Pro. F wrote: »

You have a problem with solidarity against hateful language and attitudes?

The idea that only the discriminated against should fight discrimination is idiotic. What is the justification of these demands that you make?

No. What I have a problem with is people taking offence on the part of others. I have no record of using the term "discrimination", so where you got that bemuses me, much in the way that you have taken something construed from a video clip as being "hateful language and attitudes"