Do you think the Irish have learnt their lesson?

jetsonx

Do you think the Irish have learnt their lesson in voting in "cute-hoor" types into government?

The reign of FG and Labour will not last forever. History has shown us that constant cuts in government spending turns the electorate against a government. So a gap in the market develops for another party.

My guess is this:

Another greasy rebranded Fianna Failer will come out
of the woodwork dressed in a suit and armed with empty promises and "solutions" going-forward. He will promise to end the penury of the FG and Labour coalition. He will be the knight in shining amour, here to save the Irish from those evil Germans. Once in power, he will bring in a cabal of his rebranded ex-FF buddies. They will talk about how they will bring in an end to corruption. Then after about 3-4 years, the cracks will begin to appear. Irregularities in bank accounts will start to manifest. Secret property deals. Secret business deals.

The Irish will slowly realize they just voted in FF again - all but in name only.

davet82

I'm voting for 'I can't believe its not Fianna Fail' in the next election

charlemont

No, I don't think the attitude has changed. The people who could create change and more accountability always emigrate.

Mr Benevolent

No. We've two main parties with virtually identical philosophies for the last 90 years. Labour's no better and Sinn Fein will legalise carbombs and executions.

People, you've no choice but to elect me as Leader. I promise to exile all politicians and make things work. I promise not to grow a little mustache or tell you that 'difficult decisions are always difficult'.

Nothingbetter2d

parties NOT getting my vote next election

1. Fine Geal - renaged on pretty much every pre election promise
2. Labour - sold their soul to FG for a seat
3. Fianna Fail - bankrupted Ireland
4. Green Party - Introduced more taxes and then ran when the going got tough


the doesnt leave much of a choice then

Looks like Gerry will be getting my vote as they are the only other party left... Voting for independants is just a wasted vote IMO... now if they banded together to provide a viable alternative to Sinn Fein then perhaps my vote could be swayed

Chuck Stone

I really hope so.

davet82

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I really hope so.

I think we should bring back Bertie Ahern and more tax breaks for developers

kevmy85

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

parties NOT getting my vote next election

1. Fine Geal - renaged on pretty much every pre election promise
2. Labour - sold their soul to FG for a seat
3. Fianna Fail - bankrupted Ireland
4. Green Party - Introduced more taxes and then ran when the going got tough


the doesnt leave much of a choice then

Looks like Gerry will be getting my vote as they are the only other party left... Voting for independants is just a wasted vote IMO... now if they banded together to provide a viable alternative to Sinn Fein then perhaps my vote could be swayed

Agree with you on Fianna Fail and Greens. However I think you're a little harsh on the other two.

They've only been in a year - I'll wait and see a little longer before I make up my mind on them. Most of the sh1t they've done they haven't been given much choice and if they manage turn us around someway, anyway I don't really care how.
What did you expect Labour do to? Sit in opposition when they have a once in a generation chance at Government?

Having said all that I think there is space in Irish politics for a party of the Left - Labour are centre-Left and Joe and his crew are hard-Left. Sinn Fein are trying to fill this gap but lack huge amounts of credibility/experience

Nothingbetter2d

davet82 wrote: »

I think we should bring back Bertie Ahern and more tax breaks for developers

should we also rehire the previous financial regulator also?

davet82

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

should we also rehire the previous financial regulator also?

hell yeah, we make a good team

Nothingbetter2d

kevmy85 wrote: »

What did you expect Labour do to? Sit in opposition when they have a once in a generation chance at Government?

Yes not become Fine gaél eilé

kevmy85

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

Yes not become Fine gaél eilé

Can't believe why you thought that when pre-election they pretty much said they were going to do a deal to get into government.

ejmaztec

davet82 wrote: »

I'm voting for 'I can't believe its not Fianna Fail' in the next election

But they're in power now.

We should elect the People Before Profit party, it's about time we had a good side-splitting, gut-wrenching laff.

Nothingbetter2d

kevmy85 wrote: »

Can't believe why you thought that when pre-election they pretty much said they were going to do a deal to get into government.

i knew they were to make a deal but they gave up on almost every aspect of what labour stood for and became fine geal.

At this point Labour and Fine Geal are so alike they may as well just merge into one party.

telekon

Inanimate carbon rod is getting my Number 1 preference next time round...

davet82

telekon wrote: »

Inanimate carbon rod is getting my Number 1 preference next time round...

He already ran in the presidential for Fianna Fail

RichieC

Absolutely not. Anyone that says we'll never fall for that again need only to look at the presidential race and the amount of votes that round headed fella got.

KeithAFC

People need to accept democracy. If you don't like it, stop voting for them.

davet82

KeithAFC wrote: »

People need to accept democracy. If you don't like it, stop voting for them.

This country needs a good dose of communism

Attabear

I haven't learned a damn thing and woe betide anyone who tries to teach me.

Nothingbetter2d

KeithAFC wrote: »

People need to accept democracy. If you don't like it, stop voting for them.

the problem is who to vote for....they are all a bunch of clowns imo

Stiffler2

Ah sure, they're all just a great bunch of lads shower of ba$tards really !

Agricola

Unlikely. This recession will be so long and protracted that people will grasp at any straw come election time. After another few years of the FG/Labour fiasco, of annual bondholder payments and of annual austerity budgets, people's memories will shorten and a "reformed" Fianna Failer promising us the sun, moon and stars will seem like a very tempting proposition.

ilovesleep

Some people are so fcuking politically ignorant and only really care about themselves and their pockets. There is no hope for those people. Unfortunately they are allowed to have a vote and they'll drag down the rest with them.

Then there are others who are shielded from reality retired in their early 60s on their PS pensions who behave all poshly who are utterly ignorant and lack empathy towards others who have fallen on hard times. More than likely are gullible to the medias claptrap of all unemployed being scumbags yet unable to see that the biggest scumbags are in the dail.

Floppybits

ilovesleep wrote: »

Then there are others who are shielded from reality retired in their early 60s on their PS pensions who behave all poshly who are utterly ignorant and lack empathy towards others who have fallen on hard times. More than likely are gullible to the medias claptrap of all unemployed being scumbags yet unable to see that the biggest scumbags are in the dail.

That sounds like a lot of people on here judging from the lack of empathy shown to people on hard times in the threads. It seems from reading threads on here that if you have fallen on hard times you either leave the country or else curl up into a ball in the corner and don't even dare think about asking the state for help. :mad:

It is a sad a sorry country that we live in when this is way people of the country carry on towards those people who have fallen on hard times.

trooney

KeithAFC wrote: »

People need to accept democracy. If you don't like it, stop voting for them.

You need more than one party for a democracy.

Tom

I've never voted for Fianna Fail and never will - new image or not. Even back when things were good it was obvious they were mishandling the economy and were just riding the crest of the wave that was the world wide boom.

I did vote for FG with second preference Labour as the only real alternative - not because I agree with all of their policies but because I couldn't agree with the fundamental policies of the alternatives.

I hate paying more tax as much as the next guy but in the current situation I believe whoever was in government would have to do exactly the same thing to ensure the survival of our economy - burning bond holders sounds great but we are not a strong enough economy to bounce back from such a step.

Will I vote for FG/Labour the next time? If there are no viable alternatives then yes - I cannot betray my owun fundamental beliefs by voting for a party just because they are not the other guy. But my main concerns for the lifetime of this government is that they put the mechanisms in place to prevent anything like this happening again - I will measure their success on the laws they enact to prevent another FF govt being able to shaft our economy.

If I don't want to run for office myself then I have to put my faith in others.

NinjaK

jetsonx wrote: »

Do you think the Irish have learnt their lesson in voting in "cute-hoor" types into government?

The reign of FG and Labour will not last forever. History has shown us that constant cuts in government spending turns the electorate against a government. So a gap in the market develops for another party.

My guess is this:

Another greasy rebranded Fianna Failer will come out
of the woodwork dressed in a suit and armed with empty promises and "solutions" going-forward. He will promise to end the penury of the FG and Labour coalition. He will be the knight in shining amour, here to save the Irish from those evil Germans. Once in power, he will bring in a cabal of his rebranded ex-FF buddies. They will talk about how they will bring in an end to corruption. Then after about 3-4 years, the cracks will begin to appear. Irregularities in bank accounts will start to manifest. Secret property deals. Secret business deals.

The Irish will slowly realize they just voted in FF again - all but in name only.

"The Irish"? This is an Irish forum last time I checked.

davet82

NinjaK wrote: »

"The Irish"? This is an Irish forum last time I checked.

nope we're technically germans now

Standard Toaster

Doesn't matter who you vote for, they're still all cunts.

Chinasea

Don't actually think it all rests with whom is in Government or not. I think unless the Irish people start to have a more holistic approach to everyday life than we will never get anywhere.

i,e.

• we waste tons of water until we have to pay a tax
• we never recycled a darn thing until we had to pay a bin tax
• we feic whatever we want into our lakes, rivers and seas until the EU tell us not to or we have to pay a tax
• and so on ...

Irish Steve

Chinasea wrote: »

Don't actually think it all rests with whom is in Government or not. I think unless the Irish people start to have a more holistic approach to everyday life than we will never get anywhere.

i,e.

• we waste tons of water until we have to pay a tax
• we never recycled a darn thing until we had to pay a bin tax
• we feic whatever we want into our lakes, rivers and seas until the EU tell us not to or we have to pay a tax
• and so on ...

thin end of the wedge.

• we use roads and lights on them but want someone else to pay for it
• we drive short distances rather than walking
• we buy things like "designer water" rather than use what's in the taps
• we heat public buildings to crazy temperatures rather than expect people to wear appropriate clothing
• we allow "the system" to remain unaccountable for it's failings.

Yes, Politics needs to change, but what needs to change even more is the upper echelons of the civil and public services that are in too many cases the power behind the seats etc. A lot of the time, the politicians make policy based on reports or advice. The famous "consultants" are often implicated. If we were to look closely, we would very likely find that the sources of information for the politicians or consultants are..... you guessed it........ The top echelons of the civil and public services, who have basically an unchanging agenda regardless of who is actually in power, which is to protect their own backsides at all costs, and to preserve the status quo.

Seems to me that they've been extremely successful at doing that for a long period of time.

If the present politicians were not hamstrung by the agreements made by the previous government, the clear policies of the upper echelons, and the binding commitments given to the troika, then, and only then, we might, possibly, maybe, perhaps at last see the beginnings of some real change.

I'm not about to start holding my breath, changes of the magnitude needed to succeed are only likely to happen if there's a revolution, the real leading classes are so well entrenched at this stage, getting them out is going to be almost impossible

Doc Ruby

I'd go for a libertarian party. I'm not a libertarian, we need a social safety net and I don't mind paying taxes, but someone has to rein in public waste. I'd give them a go for a term or two and see what happens.

bleg

FG/LAB are just as "cute hoorish" as the last crowd.

johngalway

I think I'll wait and see how this lot do, rather than shouting "rabble rabble rabble" less than a year into their term, in one of the worst times of this countries modern history, thanks

nice_very

if i can repost a post in another thread................

nice_very:

(in the not so distant future....) An Taoiseach Gearóid Mac Ádhaimh, today said he is happy with the outcomes of having reversed many of the previous Govt. of FG/Lab's policies.

u read it here first.

Freddie59

The Shinners will fill the void at some stage. Then it WILL be time to get out if you can.

Freddie59

Irish Steve wrote: »

• we use roads and lights on them but want someone else to pay for it
• we drive short distances rather than walking
• we buy things like "designer water" rather than use what's in the taps
• we heat public buildings to crazy temperatures rather than expect people to wear appropriate clothing
• we allow "the system" to remain unaccountable for it's failings.

* We pay for the roads and lights in the form of Road Tax; taxes; and our ESB bills.

* We drive short distances because it is completely dangerous to do otherwise in some circumstances.

* I fail to understand the point about buying water (even though I don't buy myself).

* Regarding the temperature in public buildings, do you want to turn the place into Russia or something.

* The system remains unaccountable because we cannot change it. Ever. Those who are charged with change (the Civil Servants you mention) will be the most affected. So nothing will change.

Irish Steve wrote: »

Yes, Politics needs to change, but what needs to change even more is the upper echelons of the civil and public services that are in too many cases the power behind the seats etc. A lot of the time, the politicians make policy based on reports or advice. The famous "consultants" are often implicated. If we were to look closely, we would very likely find that the sources of information for the politicians or consultants are..... you guessed it........ The top echelons of the civil and public services, who have basically an unchanging agenda regardless of who is actually in power, which is to protect their own backsides at all costs, and to preserve the status quo.

Seems to me that they've been extremely successful at doing that for a long period of time.

Indeed. Governments come and go, but the Civil servants (some of whom earn as much as the Taoiseach) remain. Thus the reason that things like Public Sector pay and staffing levels remain unchanged, even when the country is bankrupted. In another thread, a poster has said he cannot employ the same amount of people any more, as he does not have the funds to do so. Yet the Government, with its head firmly up its own arse, refuses to accept this reality for its own staff.

Irish Steve wrote: »

If the present politicians were not hamstrung by the agreements made by the previous government, the clear policies of the upper echelons, and the binding commitments given to the troika, then, and only then, we might, possibly, maybe, perhaps at last see the beginnings of some real change.

I honestly don't believe that for a minute. The current Government could have told the Troika to eff off (as they should be doing this week). But because they haven't the balls to tackle the National Deficit they cannot. Because they'll be going borrowing another E400m next Monday from the same people as usual. If they're hamstrung by anyone it's the Labour Party, protecting the interests of Public Sector unions.

AeoNGriM

Tom wrote: »

I've never voted for Fianna Fail and never will - new image or not. Even back when things were good it was obvious they were mishandling the economy and were just riding the crest of the wave that was the world wide boom.

Well why didn't you tell the rest of us? WHY DID YOU KEEP IT TO YOURSELF?!!

Everyone? It's Toms fault we're all screwed! GET HIM!

/angrymob
/pitchforks

Celly Smunt

I'll vote fianna fáil,one of their lads a few years ago fixed the road.

Drumpot

Have to disagree with some people here . . They keep focusing on the party name instead of the individuals in the party. I am not defending FF or any particular party, but its the people in the party that do the damage, you are only excusing the individuals actions by saying it was the fault of the party.

If people read my posts back well before and during the last election I was at loggerheads with people saying "anybody but FF" is a positive step. If you vote for the same kind of politician it doesnt matter which party you are voting for, the carpet baggers will just move ship to the most popular party and we will end up in the same situation.

The solution is actually quite simple but the application sounds daunting. There needs to be a revolution of thinking by the electorate, a shifting of cultural preferances and a new self awareness by the public that who they vote for effects the running of the country (not just fixing the local potholes etc).

As it stands, I actually believe that the longer we are under the control of the IMF/EU, the more reforms that are required (pensions/public service/welfare) will be done, but as soon as we go back to the bondmarkets , in particular the public service "reform" will cease. Its the one area that government has properly addressed. I have no issue with those on less then what I would call a good salary (below 30k) not feeling like they should take a hit but there are plenty of upper level areas of waste and overpaid unjustified renumeration being dished out and not properly addressed.

Getting back to the burning question, I think the OP knew the answer before they wrote this thread. The answer is categorically a big NO, but in partial defence of the electorate we were only offered the chance to vote for the same again. Voting for an independent is an alternative but it would be difficult for a country to be run by a bunch of independents.

I think that we have a superb opportunity to change our ways of thinking, change our culture and change our negativity. None of this is dependent on spending money we dont have, its dependent on the real desire for change.I considered getting into politics but to be honest I didnt feel like the electorate was ready for real change (and still dont). I am not saying that I am the answer to all the woes of the country, but I certainly want to change the things we can actually do ourselves (as mentioned above). Life is not about money or wealth, its so much more then that and if people actually went back to basics (instead of moaning about what they want, they had or simply blaming everybody else for their own misfortunes) and started to enjoy the simple things, I believe we could be a better country with a vastly superior community spirit that is worth more then any welfare a state could offer.

But to get change, people have to truely want it and they need to be led by somebody who they believe in. I dont see anybody offering the alternative.. . The paradox for any budding politician is that its a complete contradiction of how to get elected to say that the electorate has to change their ways of voting for you to be able to create change at the top.

sbsquarepants

jetsonx wrote: »

Do you think the Irish have learnt their lesson in voting in "cute-hoor" types into government?

.

No.
You can never underestimate public stupidity. FF will be the next government. FG/Labour are just FF anyway. What has changed since the last government? Nothing. Then you have statements from the shower of fúckwits like todays "its a bit of a sickener" to be paying unsecured anglo bondholders this 1.25 billion they got today.
If only there was a way to not pay them eh! Shít heads one and all.

AnonoBoy

Until we're smashing each other's heads open with rocks, flinging poo at our own families and bartering with rollie cigarettes some people won't be happy.

















So that's a vote for Fianna Fail for them.

kevmol88

sbsquarepants wrote: »

No.
You can never underestimate public stupidity. FF will be the next government. FG/Labour are just FF anyway. What has changed since the last government? Nothing. Then you have statements from the shower of fúckwits like todays "its a bit of a sickener" to be paying unsecured anglo bondholders this 1.25 billion they got today.
If only there was a way to not pay them eh! Shít heads one and all.

Colm Toibin

"Today, we Irish are each going to pay €700 to secure the financial position of people who spend most of their time on yachts with hookers"