Ableton Clipping problem

Dirkster

Hi there, I'm new to the forum and wondering if I can get any help from more experienced people with a problem I'm having with Ableton.

I only starting using Ableton lately and kind of learning it on the go with youtube videos and things. I've put together a 50 min mix with it and am happy with how the mixes between tracks are working.

There's 2 tracks though that keep clipping no matter what I do with them. As I said I'm a real amateur so after research I went back and changed all the channel levels to no greater than -4db. I have no effects running on the individual channels or the master, all I have is the EQ3 plug in. It keeps distorting though..
I've tried compressors on the individual track and also on the master channel as well as limiters but admittedly I don't really know what I'm at with these plug ins.

The song giving me most trouble is Jaytech-New Vibe with the main piano pieces so on the off chance somebody who has this tune and is handy with ableton might try it out or else maybe have some advice, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm also having problems with Wolfgang Gartner - Illlmerica.

I can put what I have on soundcloud perhaps and see what the opinions are on the sound problems?

Thanks in advance!

krd

Have you tried going into the track clip and adjusting the volume from in there?

Just dropping it slightly. Also you may be able to see the clips and spikes from in there.

You also use a compressor as a limiter - that is you limit the signal instead of boosting it.

Radiosurfer

The EQ3 is designed to work like an analog EQ so it will distort if it's overdriven regardless of what you do to the track after the EQ3. I would go grab the limiter plugin from the ableton browser and slot it in before the EQ3 and that should prevent the track from distorting. You should also do what the above poster has suggested and go into the clip view and turn down the clip volume a little. Let us know how you get on.

Dirkster

Thanks a lot for the replies guys. I'll do both of those suggestions and see how I get on and post the results. Would you recommend placing a compressor before the EQ as well or instead of the limiter?

Radiosurfer

If you're not that comfortable with compressors then the default limiter will to do the job well enough. I wouldn't advise throwing compressors on tracks without knowing how to use them, you can end up ruining transients and taking the "oomph" out of tracks.

Dirkster

Radiosurfer wrote: »

If you're not that comfortable with compressors then the default limiter will to do the job well enough. I wouldn't advise throwing compressors on tracks without knowing how to use them, you can end up ruining transients and taking the "oomph" out of tracks.

Ya thats fair advice. I tried ideas mentioned above and couldn't get the distortion out of it. There's two tracks ruining me. The first is Jaytech-New Vibe and the second is Mord Fustang-Milky Way. My levels for the second track are as follows;
Volume:-6db
Hi:-5.3db
Mid:-9db
low:-6.3db.
The only plug in except the EQ3 I have running is a limiter at a ceiling of -4db.
Do these figures seem way off? I know it is track dependent but as a ball park?

Here are links to sections from 2 tracks. The first is distorting and the second is as it is played outside ableton.
http://soundcloud.com/conorobrien-3/milky-way-ableton

http://soundcloud.com/conorobrien-3/milky-way-itunes-1

I've tried bringing the tracks into ableton via itunes as well to see if this had any impact but the same result.

Radiosurfer

It seems that the one you have named Ableton is the one that is not distorting? The one named itunes sounds distorted, is that right?
Check them again because that's how it sounds to me.

Have you turned down the volume of the clip in the clip view? that's not the same as turning the track down, right? You double click on the clip that contains the tune and at the bottom of the screen are a bunch of clip controls to the left of the sound waveform. There's a little arrow that you can raise or lower by a certain amount of DB. You need to try dragging that arrow down to turn the clip volume down as opposed to adjusting the track volume (which would effect all clips in that track).

Your settings sound fine on the limiter, I'm not sure why you're adjusting the EQ3, usually EQ3 is just used like the EQ on a Dj mixer, you know, killing the low end and bringing it back in at the drop and stuff like that. Why are you using the EQ3? Have you checked the track with the EQ3 turned off?

Dirkster

Radiosurfer wrote: »

It seems that the one you have named Ableton is the one that is not distorting? The one named itunes sounds distorted, is that right?
Check them again because that's how it sounds to me.

Have you turned down the volume of the clip in the clip view? that's not the same as turning the track down, right? You double click on the clip that contains the tune and at the bottom of the screen are a bunch of clip controls to the left of the sound waveform. There's a little arrow that you can raise or lower by a certain amount of DB. You need to try dragging that arrow down to turn the clip volume down as opposed to adjusting the track volume (which would effect all clips in that track).

Your settings sound fine on the limiter, I'm not sure why you're adjusting the EQ3, usually EQ3 is just used like the EQ on a Dj mixer, you know, killing the low end and bringing it back in at the drop and stuff like that. Why are you using the EQ3? Have you checked the track with the EQ3 turned off?

Apologies, the distortion in this case is caused because I fecked up the recording that was supposed to be the clear one. The 35 seconds into the following link is at it should soundshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZv7v2AxHk8

The distortion as I see it occurs at the peak of the piano note. My use of the EQ3 was more to blend the mix as a whole. Some tracks I had to adjust them to suit the before and after. This was mainly because I didn't stick rigidly to following similar keys of tracks so had to adjust the EQ3 to make them blend slightly better. I think if I cant find a solution then I'll start the mix from scratch again even though it'll be a right pain in the arse.

I'll start with the problem tracks and work from there.

krd

Dirkster wrote: »

Apologies, the distortion in this case is caused because I fecked up the recording that was supposed to be the clear one.

If you fecked up the original recording, it can be unfecked. Well, it can-ish, but you're better off just re-recording it.

This was mainly because I didn't stick rigidly to following similar keys of tracks so had to adjust the EQ3 to make them blend slightly better.

In Ableton, you can adjust the pitch in the clip. Usually, a step one way or the other makes a track closer to the same key. In may not put it in the same key, but if it sounds jarring, it can make it closer.

I think if I cant find a solution then I'll start the mix from scratch again even though it'll be a right pain in the arse.

It's probably the only way to learn. I've been doing this for years, and I still constantly making a balls of things.

dyer

there are a few things you could try:

1. lower the clip volume of the offending tracks (as mentioned above) when you click on a track or clip in ableton, you can see its clip properties at the bottom where you can lower the gain directly. (remember to use the clip save button or it wont remember your volume settings)

2. lower the faders as you mix and match the levels manually through your headphones before you bring another track in (only applicable really if you're mixing live, which you should be but thats another story)

3. throw an ableton utility plugin onto the track and lower the gain.

you should aim to leave some headroom on your master channel.. -3 to -6db. you can't fix digital distortion later as its literally data that has been garbled unlike an analog signal which can actually benefit from some distortion. due to the way ableton, your soundcard etc process audio you're going to have to do this each and every time you mix your tracks.. it's just the way it is.

i wouldnt use compressors or limiters on the mix, the music is already compressed to hell and limiting or compressing is only going to reduce the dynamics of your tracks even further.

Dirkster

Ok guys just to update, I've started the mix again from scratch and its working out well although I'm starting to lose interest in ever hearing the tracks again I've heard them so much now:D

The offending article was the clip volume I believe. In true rooky fashion I didn't realise this volume level was there. I was mainly looking at there being the track volume and master volume.

The reason I started from scratch is because even on a few tracks I tried lowering the clip volume and I'd say I had it so fecked up at that stage that considered it easier to start again and punishment for not researching it enough at the start It's much more organised the second time around. I've currently lowered all clips to -12db for plenty of room. I've put a utility for tweaking on each track and on the master with the addition of a limiter at -.3db Any comments or suggestions on this setup?

I had edited two tracks though and was quite happy with them in the original but hadn't saved them properly and lowering the clip volume isn't helping so have to do them again which is a balls. Other than that though I'm happy its sorted and thanks for the help everyone. I'm halfway through it now so will post it a link for crtitical analysis when finished.