UFC 143: Diaz V Condit Official Thread Discussion

karl bracken

Not sure what fight some people saw but i had it 1 and 2 to Diaz, 3 and 4 to Condit and 5th was very close!

Took Condit a while to get going in this one.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Roar

Dear god how utterly boring is GSP and Condit going to be? It'll be used to cure insomnia I reckon..

JacksonHeightsOwn

i had it pretty much all to Condit.

i think they'll have to make the judging criteria a little more open so people can understand the whole system a little better.

i dont mean show scores, but set out rules and criteria of things you need to do to win a round.

it was a tricky one to call, and i can actually see how some people could score it all one way, or then the complete opposite.

a lot of people would look at Diaz commanding the centre of the ring and automatically give the round in his favour.

but then the way i see it is you must actually do something constructive instead of walking aimlessly forward.

it was a good fight none the less.

i thought your man pierce was robbed against Koscheck though.

what annoys me is he probably won the final round because of a single takedown. Yet they dont seem to score for getting out of that takedown, or the subsequent heavy blows that Pierce landed after that takedown in the last few seconds of the final round.

it goes back to my original point. We should have a clear and concise criteria on whats scored in the judges eyes

darced

This post has been deleted.

weemcd

Anyone impressed by Werdum? His striking is definitely coming on, even though the Overeem fight was a very poor match, when he did stand and trade I thought he had some success. He stayed out of trouble and really gave Nelson a beating last night, which is all Nelson seems to be good for these days. Close to the cut, I reckon? it's the same broken record but if he got himself in shape, even down to 205 kinda weight, he would be an absolute handful, hard as nails, good power and groundgame with better cardio

Zero-Cool

Great fight, Ya Diaz pushed the pace but Condit got more strikes off. I def had it going to Condit. Diaz v GSP would have been much better tho, hope Nick isn't really retiring.

Niall0

UFC 143 Carlos Condit Vs. Nick Diaz Judges' Score Cards


Everyone who watched UFC 143's welterweight interim title fight between Nick Diaz and Carlos Condit had their own score in their heads. Nick Diaz clearly thought he won the fight, apparently retiring in a snit after the loss. But only three people's opinions mattered and they all agreed that Carlos Condit won the fight. Here are each judges' round-by-round scores:

• Judge Cecil Peoples had it: 10-9, 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Condit.
• Judge Patricia Morse Jarman had it: 10-9, 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Condit.
• Judge Junichiro Kamijo had it 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9, 9-10 for Condit.

Some interesting things to note. First off it's pretty amazing that only one judge scored the final round for Diaz given the take down and back mount. Secondly, it's interesting that only Kamijo had Diaz winning the second but Jarman and Peoples had Diaz winning the third. Everyone agreed that Condit won the first and fourth rounds.


Dana White scored it three rounds to two for Condit, with Diaz winning the first two and Condit the final three.


CompuStrike counted the strikes in the bout like so:

• Condit outlanded Diaz in total strikes 146 to 110
• Diaz outlanded Condit 86 to 42 in total arm strikes landed
• Condit outlanded Diaz 104 to 19 in total leg strikes landed

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/2/5/2772415/ufc-143-results-judges-score-cards-carlos-condit-vs-nick-diaz

Now this is interesting does anyone actually agree with the way the judges scored it? Two out of the three judges gave diaz round 3 and condit the rest, i cant see how they came to that conclusion.....

Watched it earlier. Condit picked him off beautifully almost every time. Great game plan and it worked. Anyone saying Diaz won is just sad about the lost fight to GSP imo.

p.s Renan Barao is the man.

Roar

Theory time... Could there be a rematch of this fight in the summer? Condit says he doesn't want to fight until GSP is ready, which is a long time. Will he fight before then... and could it be a rematch? A chance for UFC to get the Diaz v GSP fight they wanted originally? With Diaz saying after the fight that he was done, maybe offering him a rematch with Condit (with the GSP shot as a carrot too) is the only way to get him back? Would Condit accept? A rematch between these two would be a big draw..

Anyone??

Right, enough rambling...

nino1

Roar wrote: »

Theory time... Could there be a rematch of this fight in the summer? Condit says he doesn't want to fight until GSP is ready, which is a long time. Will he fight before then... and could it be a rematch? A chance for UFC to get the Diaz v GSP fight they wanted originally? With Diaz saying after the fight that he was done, maybe offering him a rematch with Condit (with the GSP shot as a carrot too) is the only way to get him back? Would Condit accept? A rematch between these two would be a big draw..

Anyone??

Right, enough rambling...

there definately wont be a rematch because DW said he thought conduit won.

the problem with the scoring is down to the vagueness of the rules.
All the judges are supposed to go on is effective striking, effective grappling and octagon control.
thats way too vague.
is a lowkick worth the same as a punch to the face?
how many punches to the face equals a takedown?

for me its much easier to land a lowkick than a punch to the face so in the diaz conduit fight i don't think you can just count the total number of "strikes" and say conduit deserved to win.

in the kos/pierce fight one takedown decided the winner of the third round despite the fact that pierce landed the most strikes. so obviously judges weight takedowns more. why? where does it say one takedown is morth more than being outstruck by 8 punches.

the rules need to be made way clearer to stop these debates after every big show.

p to the e

Niall0 wrote: »

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/2/5/2772415/ufc-143-results-judges-score-cards-carlos-condit-vs-nick-diaz

Now this is interesting does anyone actually agree with the way the judges scored it? Two out of the three judges gave diaz round 3 and condit the rest, i cant see how they came to that conclusion.....

Weirdly I scored it exactly like the third judge. I thought Diaz won the second and fifth outright, Condit won third and fourth and the first being very close but thought Condit just edged it.

Anyone see the Thompson KO? Oh my word. Big things gonna happen for this guy. Very impressive performance from Werdum. Will Nelson make a move to LHW I wonder?

Logical Fallacy

nino1 wrote: »

there definately wont be a rematch because DW said he thought conduit won.

Dana has already said he is happy to do a rematch if it's what both Conduit and Diaz want.

alanrebelsw

Diaz dont deserve a rematch,he had his chance and was beaten by a smarter fighter,gsp to beat conduit...

seadnamac

I don't know why some people bother to watch this sport. That was a fantastic performance from Carlos Condit and he clearly won the fight. He landed more, he caused more damage and he avoided the most dangerous aspects of Diaz's offence. He showed Nick Diaz up for the limited fighter he is and all some people can do is moan about how he didn't just stand there to be hit. Running? Jesus Christ...

Hide the Rum

karl bracken wrote: »

Not sure what fight some people saw but i had it 1 and 2 to Diaz, 3 and 4 to Condit and 5th was very close!

Took Condit a while to get going in this one.

?? Condit stuck to the gameplan for the entire fight, and didn't Nick take his back in the 5th and almost get the choke?

cowzerp

Hide the Rum wrote: »

?? Condit stuck to the gameplan for the entire fight, and didn't Nick take his back in the 5th and almost get the choke?

Almost don't cut it.

I was hoping Diaz won but he done the bare minimum and as he could not outwork his opponent was shown up for been limited.

cowzerp

cowzerp wrote: »

Almost don't cut it.

I was hoping Diaz won but he done the bare minimum and as he could not outwork his opponent was shown up for been limited.

True, as the saying goes, "nearly didn't win the race".
Diaz should've tried to take the fight to the ground earlier, but he thought he could scrap and got shown up.

El Guapo!

All the people saying Condit ran away from Diaz are crazy.
Condit had a gameplan that he executed perfectly.
For the entire fight he managed to get his shots in and then get out of the way before he took any damaging shots from Diaz. He performed exactly the way he needed to win the fight.
Why would he stand in front of Diaz and get into a slugfest just to please a few blood-thirsty fans?? It's his job to do whats needed to get the win, and he did exactly that. And to whoever said "Greg Jackson/Carlos Condit are ruining mma"-- that's laughable.

Condit didn't settle for the first 2 rounds and I think Diaz won both those rounds. But Condit seemed to find his feet and relax in the last 3 rounds and he performed better than Diaz and won the fight.
Fair enough Diaz got the takedown late in the last round but he wasn't able to do anything with it. He tried to get a submission but Condit defended everything. Diaz didn't even get any decent shots in while he had Condits back, and condit managed to get out of it right at the end.

This mentality that if someone gets a takedown they automatically win the round is ridiculous. Condit controlled Diaz in rd5 andjust because Diaz manages a takedown he wins the round?? Not a chance.
Really good performance from Condit and a well deserved win. Looking forward to GSP v Condit now.

El Guapo!

themandan6611 wrote: »

well dean09 & devore must be asleep tonight

Yep!

I went to bed and set the main event to record. Then when I got up today I discovered the fukn recording failed!! :mad:
So I had to search online for the rest of the fights!

Logical Fallacy

The funny thing is that if Condit had of gone out there and allowed Diaz to Stockton Slap the chops off him for 5 rounds you'd have those same fans who are bitching about "running" bitching about how Condit should have had a better plan.

scudzilla

OUCH

CageWager

I just watched the fight again without the commentary. I don't really get all the criticism of Condit. The fact is it was just a very close fight that could have gone either way. For the record I have Diaz winning rounds 1,2 and 5 and Condit taking 3 and 4.

Having watched the fight a number of times I can see how you could give any round to either fighter. For me the 5th round was the only one where something significant (diaz taking condit down and securing back mount) happened to really distinguish the 2 fighters, but Condit was probably winning that round up until the last 90 seconds.

It was an extremely tought fight to score for any judge, although im not excusing the judges who are usually woeful, but in this case I dont think even experts could agree on who won what round (evidenced by the variety of opinions from fighters/experts on twitter etc)

This wasnt a conspiricy or a robbery, just a close fight. My guess is that if Diaz had have won a lot of people would have been shouting robbery for carlos condit.

loremolis

I would love to see Nelson lose a bit more weight and make the LHW division.

Another 25 to 30 lbs would be enough for him to make the final cut before a fight. He's never going to compete with the bigger guys in the HW division carrying that much excess weight.

loremolis

loremolis wrote: »

I would love to see Nelson lose a bit more weight and make the LHW division.

Another 25 to 30 lbs would be enough for him to make the final cut before a fight. He's never going to compete with the bigger guys in the HW division carrying that much excess weight.

Yeah because Roy Nelson fighting faster more athletic fighters = win.... He's a HW gatekeeper and he's going to stay that way.

loremolis

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah because Roy Nelson fighting faster more athletic fighters = win.... He's a HW gatekeeper and he's going to stay that way.

How many more losses at HW before the gate is closed for him in the UFC?

If he fights at HW again and loses then he's gonna have to drop or he'll be cut with one more loss. A drop to LHW keeps his UFC career alive and with his experience, not to mention his chin, he could handle many of the LHW guys at the moment.

Hide the Rum

cowzerp wrote: »

Almost don't cut it.

Yes, I was referring to it as effective grappling and that the 5th round wasn't close. Although I need to see the fight again.

scudzilla

What did he weigh in at this weekend?

Got it, 246lb, that's a hefty cut to LHW alright

p to the e

seriously did anyone watch the Stephen Thompson KO? Here's a video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8IsiKLm6mU

Hide the Rum

Unreal. Can't wait for his next fight.:D

stuchyg

Good Card overall, Big Country can take some punishment. The only decision i would argue with is Pierce losing, he defo won that fight. While i wanted Diaz to win you could understand the decision going to Condit

Mellor

sheehy83 wrote: »

Wait til he fights a proper striker, he will get KTFO with that low guard. Also, sorry for going off topic but I heard Hendo turned down a fight with Lil Nog to wait for a shot at Jones.

I think he has a better idea of striking technique than you, or me, or anyone on the forums. He's one of the top strikers in the division.

empacher wrote: »

1,3,4 to Carlos 2 as a draw and 5 to diaz (even though I feel Carlos won the round. The tendencies of judging to score it on the last minute of action especially if there's a takedown.) 1 was razor thin and 2 could have gone to Diaz

I don't understand that, how can you give rd 5 to Diaz if you feel Carlso won the round?

Peopel saying Conduit ran is nonsense, he avoided him for 5 rounds and landed far more strikes. As a whole he won.
In terms of scoring, round by round, Conduit gets 1,3 and 4 for me. Round 2 and 5 for Diaz.
48-47 and its not a close one. 5 is the closest round, conduit gets that before Diaz takes the first

darced

This post has been deleted.

scudzilla

p to the e wrote: »

seriously did anyone watch the Stephen Thompson KO? Here's a video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8IsiKLm6mU

Bit out of order there for him to carry on punching, they guy was clearly knocked the fcuk out. I know some people say carry on until the ref stops it but that was just taking the piss

Roar

scudzilla wrote: »

Bit out of order there for him to carry on punching, they guy was clearly knocked the fcuk out. I know some people say carry on until the ref stops it but that was just taking the piss

he landed with one half assed punch before the referee moved in. Just complete instinct to keep going until he's stopped. I wouldn't be reading too much into it.

empacher

Mellor wrote: »

I don't understand that, how can you give rd 5 to Diaz if you feel Carlso won the round?

What I mean is i gave Diaz the round based on that judges tend to give it to a a guy with a take down.
But I feel Condit won it because, for 4mins he was winning on the feet. He defended the rear naked, and reversed the armbar to end up on top. which gave diaz only about 50secs of being in control of the fight.

Logical Fallacy

scudzilla wrote: »

Bit out of order there for him to carry on punching, they guy was clearly knocked the fcuk out. I know some people say carry on until the ref stops it but that was just taking the piss

Guys can wake up the second they hit the ground. It's not like he went Donkey Kong on him or anything, one punch sort of landed.

horsemeat

seadnamac wrote: »

I don't know why some people bother to watch this sport. That was a fantastic performance from Carlos Condit and he clearly won the fight. He landed more, he caused more damage and he avoided the most dangerous aspects of Diaz's offence. He showed Nick Diaz up for the limited fighter he is and all some people can do is moan about how he didn't just stand there to be hit. Running? Jesus Christ...

I see the Diaz haters are out in force now with junk like the above posted.

Not one person who watches MMA thought that main event could even possibly be boring, but carlos and greg proved everybody wrong.

MMA has become a joke with this point scoring bollox.

Fight metric stats mean f all, condit outstruck diaz by about 50 shots, but almost 70 of carlos shots were point scoring leg kicks that did absolutely no damage to diaz.

diaz himself only threw 16 leg kicks.

one man went out there to leave it all in the cage, the other went out to leave the cage with the belt.

it's an embarrassment for the ufc.

who the fcuk wants to watch condit v gsp.

it's like greg jackson came up with a plan to beat diaz ''ok we don't want to get a point scoring win by holding him down on the ground like we normally do cause there's a good chance he'll submit you, so instead we'll run away from him all fight and keep hitting him with weak ass leg kicks.you'll have to win once they see you outstruck and outpointed him.''

cop onto yourselves. condit should be ashamed of himself, anyone who thinks there was any honour in his victory needs to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and do a rain check on what sport it is they are actually following; this isn't tennis or gymnastics, this is the hurt business not the point scoring business.

ridiculous.

Andersonisgod

horsemeat wrote: »

I see the Diaz haters are out in force now with junk like the above posted.

Not one person who watches MMA thought that main event could even possibly be boring, but carlos and greg proved everybody wrong.

MMA has become a joke with this point scoring bollox.

Fight metric stats mean f all, condit outstruck diaz by about 50 shots, but almost 70 of carlos shots were point scoring leg kicks that did absolutely no damage to diaz.

diaz himself only threw 16 leg kicks.

one man went out there to leave it all in the cage, the other went out to leave the cage with the belt.

it's an embarrassment for the ufc.

who the fcuk wants to watch condit v gsp.

it's like greg jackson came up with a plan to beat diaz ''ok we don't want to get a point scoring win by holding him down on the ground like we normally do cause there's a good chance he'll submit you, so instead we'll run away from him all fight and keep hitting him with weak ass leg kicks.you'll have to win once they see you outstruck and outpointed him.''

cop onto yourselves. condit should be ashamed of himself, anyone who thinks there was any honour in his victory needs to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and do a rain check on what sport it is they are actually following; this isn't tennis or gymnastics, this is the hurt business not the point scoring business.

ridiculous.

I want to watch Condit vs GSP.

Also why would Condit want to stand there and let Diaz offload on him, that would be utterly stupid. Condit was clearly the better technical striker with a greater variety of strikes in his arsenal. Also if Diaz were to fight GSP, do you really think GSP would just stand there aswell? Of course not, Diaz has nothing to complain about, his gameplan was one dimensional, once Condit got out of the corners Diaz backed him into all Diaz had were some childish taunts, Diaz only has himself to blame for the loss.

Mellor

horsemeat wrote: »

]

Fight metric stats mean f all, condit outstruck diaz by about 50 shots, but almost 70 of carlos shots were point scoring leg kicks that did absolutely no damage to diaz.

diaz himself only threw 16 leg kicks.

one man went out there to leave it all in the cage, the other went out to leave the cage with the belt.

Leg kicks do no damage!!
Are you Cecil Peeples?


Saying Diaz left is all in the cage is nonsense. He threw basically no strikes in round 4. When the first 3 rounds were so clsoe, giving the other guy the forth for free is not the actinos od somebody leaving it all in the cage.

seadnamac

horsemeat wrote: »

I see the Diaz haters are out in force now with junk like the above posted.

Not one person who watches MMA thought that main event could even possibly be boring, but carlos and greg proved everybody wrong.

MMA has become a joke with this point scoring bollox.

Fight metric stats mean f all, condit outstruck diaz by about 50 shots, but almost 70 of carlos shots were point scoring leg kicks that did absolutely no damage to diaz.

diaz himself only threw 16 leg kicks.

one man went out there to leave it all in the cage, the other went out to leave the cage with the belt.

it's an embarrassment for the ufc.

who the fcuk wants to watch condit v gsp.

it's like greg jackson came up with a plan to beat diaz ''ok we don't want to get a point scoring win by holding him down on the ground like we normally do cause there's a good chance he'll submit you, so instead we'll run away from him all fight and keep hitting him with weak ass leg kicks.you'll have to win once they see you outstruck and outpointed him.''

cop onto yourselves. condit should be ashamed of himself, anyone who thinks there was any honour in his victory needs to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and do a rain check on what sport it is they are actually following; this isn't tennis or gymnastics, this is the hurt business not the point scoring business.

ridiculous.

If you believe all that, then MMA isn't for you.

Logical Fallacy

horsemeat wrote: »

I see the Diaz haters are out in force now with junk like the above posted.

Not one person who watches MMA thought that main event could even possibly be boring, but carlos and greg proved everybody wrong.

MMA has become a joke with this point scoring bollox.

Fight metric stats mean f all, condit outstruck diaz by about 50 shots, but almost 70 of carlos shots were point scoring leg kicks that did absolutely no damage to diaz.

diaz himself only threw 16 leg kicks.

one man went out there to leave it all in the cage, the other went out to leave the cage with the belt.

it's an embarrassment for the ufc.

who the fcuk wants to watch condit v gsp.

it's like greg jackson came up with a plan to beat diaz ''ok we don't want to get a point scoring win by holding him down on the ground like we normally do cause there's a good chance he'll submit you, so instead we'll run away from him all fight and keep hitting him with weak ass leg kicks.you'll have to win once they see you outstruck and outpointed him.''

cop onto yourselves. condit should be ashamed of himself, anyone who thinks there was any honour in his victory needs to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and do a rain check on what sport it is they are actually following; this isn't tennis or gymnastics, this is the hurt business not the point scoring business.

ridiculous.

And the final float in the Bollix Day Parade....

empacher

I love the banter on this thread, between educated fans and the seeking action fans.

jayteecork

Thought Diaz was robbed. He controlled the fight.

Professey Chin

jayteecork wrote: »

Thought Diaz was robbed. He controlled the fight.

People keep saying this?!
Walking forward isnt controlling the fight. Its just walking forward and he was able to do fcuk all with it. Condit showed a lot more control by not allowing himself to just be backed up against the cage. Everytime he was in that position he used strikes to get a distance and span out.
Diaz gameplan was same as always. Walk forward, talk and tire him out so he can unleash his usual barrages. The only problem was Condit didnt get put off by the talking and didnt tire. He landed constant strikes and avoided damage. And Diaz didnt have an answer for that.

Ush1

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

People keep saying this?!
Walking forward isnt controlling the fight. Its just walking forward and he was able to do fcuk all with it. Condit showed a lot more control by not allowing himself to just be backed up against the cage. Everytime he was in that position he used strikes to get a distance and span out.
Diaz gameplan was same as always. Walk forward, talk and tire him out so he can unleash his usual barrages. The only problem was Condit didnt get put off by the talking and didnt tire. He landed constant strikes and avoided damage. And Diaz didnt have an answer for that.

Diaz controlled it in the same way Nelson controlled Werdum.:)

The Bored One

I was very happy with that event overall.

Personally I though Diaz vs Condit was a thing of beauty. Condit perfectly neutralized Diaz's game, and put on a great display of counter-striking.
Constantly changing angles, moving in and out of range, he was practically leading Diaz around by the nose.
It showed up a number of gaps in Diaz's game, the biggest one to me being his lack of takedown ability. If he could shoot a good takedown then that fight could have gone rather differently. He could have put the fight in a range where he had greater control of the action, as he does have a dangerous ground game. Instead he left trying this till near the very end of the fight and failed to pull of the sub.
It also showed that he needs to mix up his striking more effectively. Diaz mainly throws medium power shots that do damage by their volume. Condit never stayed in range long enough for the volume to be an issue. Which left Diaz without any major weapons to use. His head kicks were very easily (and very obviously) blocked by Condit which would have a stong effect on how they were percieved by the judges.
He also didn't up the power of his punches to try and slow or stun Condit when he did catch him. Just continued with the medium level punches that Condit disengaged from before the volume could affect him.

I also have alot of respect for Condit keeping focused during the fight. More than one person has been sucked into playing the back and forth game with the Diaz brothers by their taunting, Condit just stuck to the plan and got the job done. He also did ramp up how aggressively he was doing it the longer the fight went on.
Actually on the subject of the taunting, several times when Diaz dropped his guard and did his come hit me gestures, Condit did hit him with a few strikes as he moved in and out.
When you're being judged on your technical ability by a panel of judges, deliberately not blocking strikes that are landing on your face probably doesn't look so good.

Professey Chin

Actually I just remembered Condits cross(or jab, must rewatch), left leg kick, right head kick combo was a thing of beauty
/fap

The Bored One

Oh and new the intro looked dodgy to me. Just the cgi looked rather cheesy.

cowzerp

horsemeat wrote: »

I see the Diaz haters are out in force now with junk like the above posted.

Not one person who watches MMA thought that main event could even possibly be boring, but carlos and greg proved everybody wrong.

MMA has become a joke with this point scoring bollox.

Fight metric stats mean f all, condit outstruck diaz by about 50 shots, but almost 70 of carlos shots were point scoring leg kicks that did absolutely no damage to diaz.

diaz himself only threw 16 leg kicks.

one man went out there to leave it all in the cage, the other went out to leave the cage with the belt.

it's an embarrassment for the ufc.

who the fcuk wants to watch condit v gsp.

it's like greg jackson came up with a plan to beat diaz ''ok we don't want to get a point scoring win by holding him down on the ground like we normally do cause there's a good chance he'll submit you, so instead we'll run away from him all fight and keep hitting him with weak ass leg kicks.you'll have to win once they see you outstruck and outpointed him.''

cop onto yourselves. condit should be ashamed of himself, anyone who thinks there was any honour in his victory needs to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and do a rain check on what sport it is they are actually following; this isn't tennis or gymnastics, this is the hurt business not the point scoring business.

ridiculous.

At a professional level it's a business and the way to make money is to win regular and fight for titles or title defenses.

Points are a legitimate way to win any fight in combat sports, Diaz throwing tippy tappy punches with zero chance of a ko is hardly trying to finish the fight either.

on a side note, cursing on here is not on and i don't care if you change or remove letters to beat the system-next time it's done the ban hammer will be coming out.

seadnamac wrote: »

If you believe all that, then MMA isn't for you.

Agreed.