Xbox 720 is Coming. November 2013

cherryghost

Radeon X1900 XT
625 MHz
1.45 GHz
256-bit
46.4 GB/s
48
9.0c

Radeon HD 6670
800 MHz
4 GHz
128-bit
64 GB/s
480
11

So, the figures add up to be roughly only 4 times faster than the current xbox.

My problem is that it claims it will be 20% more powerful than the Wii U. The Wii U is using a custom R770 chip which is based on the radeon 4xxx series. The R770 type chips can be found on a 4730, 4830 and 4870. If its truly 20% more powerful then the Wii U is based on the 4730, as its about 10-20% slower than the 6670. The 4830 is about 20% faster and the 4870 about 40% faster.

gizmo

EnterNow wrote: »

I have to say, manufacturers these days really know how to incentivise hackers to exploit their systems. An anti-used game technology? Asking for trouble imo

The console could single handedly cure cancer, bring about world peace and eject a full, perfectly stacked pyramid of Ferrero Rocher everytime it's turned on and it would still be hacked. Whether or not such a system is implemented wouldn't affect this in the slightest.

Enderman wrote: »

Radeon X1900 XT
625 MHz
1.45 GHz
256-bit
46.4 GB/s
48
9.0c

Radeon HD 6670
800 MHz
4 GHz
128-bit
64 GB/s
480
11

So, the figures add up to be roughly only 4 times faster than the current xbox.

My problem is that it claims it will be 20% more powerful than the Wii U. The Wii U is using a custom R770 chip which is based on the radeon 4xxx series. The R770 type chips can be found on a 4730, 4830 and 4870. If its truly 20% more powerful then the Wii U is based on the 4730, as its about 10-20% slower than the 6670. The 4830 is about 20% faster and the 4870 about 40% faster.

And what R520 model came with 10MB eDRAM and featured a unified shading architecture?

Myrddin

gizmo wrote: »

The console could single handedly cure cancer, bring about world peace and eject a full, perfectly stacked pyramid of Ferrero Rocher everytime it's turned on and it would still be hacked. Whether or not such a system is implemented wouldn't affect this in the slightest.

Consoles have got to a point where it takes real knowledge of architecture & security, & serious electronic knowledge to exploit them. Don't kid yourself that any gimp can do it. Look at the 3DS, & later PS3 firmwares. It can only be done by the big boys these days

Magill

ShadowHearth wrote: »

they will hack it just to prove that they can.

its really bad idea. i am not a fan of used games and i will newer buy used one if its 5eu cheaper ( not taking online pass in to account ), but if it will have some sort of " hooking up to models serial number and dont work on other xbox ", then i wount even come near the fecking thing.

windows 7 is using something similar now: it will hook up to your motherboard and if you will change system or just motherboard, you got to call microsoft to change license to new pc. its free now, but i bet they will try something on console.

I can't imagine it would be as severe as that, imagine if you had 20 games connected to your xbox and it broke. It'll probably be an xbox live attachment... like PC games have been doing for years with Steam + CD Keys... sorta. Good thing imo.

gizmo

EnterNow wrote: »

Consoles have got to a point where it takes real knowledge of architecture & security, & serious electronic knowledge to exploit them. Don't kid yourself that any gimp can do it. Look at the 3DS, & later PS3 firmwares. It can only be done by the big boys these days

Oh I don't think that in the slightest. My point was that, regardless of whether such an anti-used games feature is enabled or not, there will be attempts made by people to hack it. One may of course argue that the most knowledgeable of these people will be more attracted should said feature be implemented but there'll still be efforts made by others irrespective of this.

Myrddin

gizmo wrote: »

One may of course argue that the most knowledgeable of these people will be more attracted should said feature be implemented but there'll still be efforts made by others irrespective of this.

That's my point. The masses for the most part can largely be ignored, as seen in the PS3 scene.

Since it's still all only rumours... I heard it'd be powered by dual core hamsters; two wheels on top of each other.

Kinski

Deleted User wrote: »

Since it's still all only rumours... I heard it'd be powered by dual core hamsters; two wheels on top of each other.

Just wait until PETA gets wind of this...much worse than that Tanooki-suit Mario debacle.

And OT, but I was surprised that that managed to offend someone, but no one complained that in the promo pics it looks like Tanooki Mario is about to take a dump:

Gandalph

Screw you console haters, you wont be able to sit down and play a game of FIFA14 with your mates on your PC!

ScumLord

Gandalph wrote: »

Screw you console haters, you wont be able to sit down and play a game of FIFA14 with your mates on your PC!

Why do you think that? Plug in two xbox controllers load the game on the big screen (we can use the TV as well as our monitor) and there's no difference bar the improvement in graphics. Oh and loading speeds.

ShadowHearth

FIFA sucks anyway.


Well I will be hitting the ole dusty trail so...

Overheal

Enderman wrote: »

Radeon X1900 XT
625 MHz
1.45 GHz
256-bit
46.4 GB/s
48
9.0c

Radeon HD 6670
800 MHz
4 GHz
128-bit
64 GB/s
480
11

So, the figures add up to be roughly only 4 times faster than the current xbox.

My problem is that it claims it will be 20% more powerful than the Wii U. The Wii U is using a custom R770 chip which is based on the radeon 4xxx series. The R770 type chips can be found on a 4730, 4830 and 4870. If its truly 20% more powerful then the Wii U is based on the 4730, as its about 10-20% slower than the 6670. The 4830 is about 20% faster and the 4870 about 40% faster.

There is so much more to it that that. It's hard to do a table-by table comparison. For instance, the 6670 desktop card has by it's specification up to 1GB of GDDR5 where the Xenos (modified X1900XT) Had 10MB DRAM and eDRAM on a seperate die that did additional things like handle alpha blending and (yeah right) Anti-Aliasing. The 6670 has 480 stream processors where the Xenos had 48. Xenos benched at 240 GFLOPS where the 6670 benches at 768. Then you can get into the nitty gritty of vertex polygon and texel fill rates and wattage consumption. And that's just in comparing an off the shelf 6670, who knows what the hell kind of frankencard the console will actually launch with. Xenos was not a bog standard card to begin with, it had a lot of kick, but the new card will probably follow a similar trend. In the meanwhile though you can't just compare clock speed or penis size, the newer cards can do a lot more since their architecture is much more intricate. I believe the 6670 as somewhere in the 700m range of transistors and the xenos has 300m? Just way too many variables. It's like trying to slap an i7 with a Pentium 4 in the face because you might have a P4 that's clocked faster, but the i7 WILL kick it's ass and have loom left over to contemplate the complete work of Shakespeare.

Have you noticed though that nvidia has fallen off the face of the earth with most OEMs? They really screwed themselves in 08. I could care less, I'm happy AMD is doing so well.

Temptamperu

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

600 dollars?
I guess we can put the "console game is so much cheaper than pc gaming" to rest for a couple of years then

erm decent PC for gaming 900 - 1200 € thats 600 dollars dude. which if my sums are right is about 565, about the same price as the 360 when it released.

gizmo

Temptamperu wrote: »

erm decent PC for gaming 900 - 1200 € thats 600 dollars dude. which if my sums are right is about 565, about the same price as the 360 when it released.

A decent PC for gaming doesn't cost €1200-900.

$600 is roughly €458.

The 360 did not cost €565 when it was released, it cost €399.

Things that make you go frrp indeed.

Overheal

You could build a fairly decent rig for $600, using a simple board, i5, and a GPU.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.810613

And that's before I even go digging into putting something together piecemeal. Cheaper cases, PSUs, and Security software available that don't belong in this bundle.

And that's for good gaming performance by PC gaming standards. I could do console standard for a lot less money.

Mr.Saturn

So, will this one manage to not have such a high failure rate on launch?

Overheal

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

So, will this one manage to not have such a high failure rate on launch?

I imagine thats one of the design goals. And probably one of the reasons they aren't going with top spec hardware.

In fact the more I think about it the more I wonder if they actually would try to do another frankencard like the Xenos, since that could very well be where part of the problem came from.

ShooterSF

Any info on built in wireless? Stupid over priced dongles!

F1ngers

For an alleged console release leak, there are a lot of upset PC fanboys knocking about...sheesh...Get over it.

Consoles play games...thats what's wanted.
If the xbox420* plays games, that'll do me.

*xbox420 - I called it now. 720 will not be the name of the new console.

jaykhunter

F1ngers wrote: »

*xbox420 - I called it now. 720 will not be the name of the new console.

nah i got the inside scoop! it's 6x the 360 = The Xbox 2160!

I own all 3 consoles and am looking into buying a PC (my current PC turned 9 last year). Looking at Benchmark tests for PCs, the Radeon HD 6670 is really far down the list. I mean 'I'm a bit embarrassed' far down....for a console that won't be out for the guts of another 2 years! :eek: Like the bog-standard Radeon HD 6850 packs more than twice the punch.

God, I sound like a PC fanboy. I think i'm too far gone. The shame

ShadowHearth

jaykhunter wrote: »

nah i got the inside scoop! it's 6x the 360 = The Xbox 2160!

I own all 3 consoles and am looking into buying a PC (my current PC turned 9 last year). Looking at Benchmark tests for PCs, the Radeon HD 6670 is really far down the list. I mean 'I'm a bit embarrassed' far down....for a console that won't be out for the guts of another 2 years! :eek: Like the bog-standard Radeon HD 6850 packs more than twice the punch.

God, I sound like a PC fanboy. I think i'm too far gone. The shame

Welcome to the dark side! Your name from now on will be darth Jaykhunter!

Pc gamers are not upset that Xbox coming out, they are upset, because the hardware used in it is already old and in 2 years it will be very very old. By that time pc hardware will jump even higher and leave next gen in consoles in dust.

Pc gamers know that their hardware will be hold back by old console hardware. So games will be done for consoles and then poorly ported to pc. This happens alot lately.

If they would match hardware with pc standards it would mean that gap would be very small and everyone would get better quality games. Old hardware is holding back progress.

On the other hand it is not bad news I guess. If console hardware wil be so outdated, it will mean pc hardware will stand for longer times. This is happening already. 5 years old pc with minor upgrade can handle all games on high settings. Maybe these systems that are built now will be still powerfull enoug to play games for more then 5 years.

Kiith

I shudder to think of how many Kinect features will be forced on us with this.

Myrddin

Kiith wrote: »

I shudder to think of how many Kinect features will be forced on us with this.

Notification - Your friend in Bolivia just smiled.
Notification - Your friend in Germany has his finger up his nose.
Notification - Your friend in the US is massaging his groin.

Kiith

Regardless of what hardware it launches with, developers will do amazing things with it once they figure out how to properly code for it. What they've done with the PS3/360, considering the hardware in both machines, if amazing tbh. It doesnt really matter that pc's will always be technologically superior to consoles, as long as developers can adapt like they did in this gen.

Either way, i'll almost certainly buy it. I just hope it's not over €500.

cherryghost

Overheal wrote: »

There is so much more to it that that. It's hard to do a table-by table comparison. For instance, the 6670 desktop card has by it's specification up to 1GB of GDDR5 where the Xenos (modified X1900XT) Had 10MB DRAM and eDRAM on a seperate die that did additional things like handle alpha blending and (yeah right) Anti-Aliasing. The 6670 has 480 stream processors where the Xenos had 48. Xenos benched at 240 GFLOPS where the 6670 benches at 768. Then you can get into the nitty gritty of vertex polygon and texel fill rates and wattage consumption. And that's just in comparing an off the shelf 6670, who knows what the hell kind of frankencard the console will actually launch with. Xenos was not a bog standard card to begin with, it had a lot of kick, but the new card will probably follow a similar trend. In the meanwhile though you can't just compare clock speed or penis size, the newer cards can do a lot more since their architecture is much more intricate. I believe the 6670 as somewhere in the 700m range of transistors and the xenos has 300m? Just way too many variables. It's like trying to slap an i7 with a Pentium 4 in the face because you might have a P4 that's clocked faster, but the i7 WILL kick it's ass and have loom left over to contemplate the complete work of Shakespeare.

Have you noticed though that nvidia has fallen off the face of the earth with most OEMs? They really screwed themselves in 08. I could care less, I'm happy AMD is doing so well.

I'm not stupid and I know well there's major differences in architecture, but you cannot ignore benchmarks :rolleyes: That's all I was comparing to, not to what was on the boards. For me to be blabbering about how much faster it is based on tech specs is utterly stupid.

Anywho what the rest say, devs will find a way to develop A+ games along with good quality hardware no matter what it may be.

ShadowHearth

Overheal wrote: »

You could build a fairly decent rig for $600, using a simple board, i5, and a GPU.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.810613

And that's before I even go digging into putting something together piecemeal. Cheaper cases, PSUs, and Security software available that don't belong in this bundle.

And that's for good gaming performance by PC gaming standards. I could do console standard for a lot less money.

Now keep in mind, price point of 600$ does not mean it will be converted to euro for us. It will be rip off Europe/Ireland. 600$ = 600eu in Europe.

For 600eu you can buy now a great pc, imagine what sort pc you will be able to buy in 1.5 year time for 600eu?!

Tea_Bag

I'm not sure MS realised just how good the 7000 series is looking compared to the 6000 architecture. to say the 7000 stuff runs cold is an understatement. 7970 uses 150W (3W at idle) and almost kicks my 6990 around. the lower end 7000 stuff is going to be rebranded 6000 stuff, but throwing in a crippled 7850 paired with a 32nm (or 28nm!) i3 type chip and you've got some serious grunt that runs cold. I imagine Intels 14nm fab stuff (factory to produce it is getting build) will be able to run passive.

as it is now, its just a major disappointment to PC gamers..

also, I reckon 95% of the people with the knowledge of how to hack this stuff already works for MS... and is paid to secure the 480 (there is no way in hell its 720)

maybe neXbox?

gizmo

Enderman wrote: »

I'm not stupid and I know well there's major differences in architecture, but you cannot ignore benchmarks :rolleyes: That's all I was comparing to, not to what was on the boards. For me to be blabbering about how much faster it is based on tech specs is utterly stupid.

Anywho what the rest say, devs will find a way to develop A+ games along with good quality hardware no matter what it may be.

Those kinds of benchmarks are utterly useless when faced with those kinds of architectural differences.

cherryghost

gizmo wrote: »

Those kinds of benchmarks are utterly useless when faced with those kinds of architectural differences.

Would you mind explaining exactly why?

marco_polo

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Now keep in mind, price point of 600$ does not mean it will be converted to euro for us. It will be rip off Europe/Ireland. 600$ = 600eu in Europe.

In fairness quite a large proportion (but not all admittedly) of the difference can be accounted for by our high VAT rates rather than price gouging. Unlike EU retailers who must list the price including VAT, US sites list the price excluding sales tax as it varies from state to state, but it is generally added at the checkout stage AFAIK.